New contracts are comin!!!

[Iwannahumpalot]

Just heard through the CX grapevines that new contracts will be placed in our mailboxes in the coming weeks...As usual it was from someone senior but...you never know i guess...it said to be the same package that the company offered us recently..

[7FF]

My bet is that a new contract will be in the mail boxes on Friday 30 Nov for signing before 1 Jan 08. Same as the company posted conditions for you to sign of not, your choice. A one off opportunity to enable you to work to 65 or mandatory retirement at 55.

[The Management]

Finally most of you have accepted it. This will make it more pleasant for you and yes time is running out.

Just a reminder, that we still have an intimidation clause in Volume 1, so remember this when you are flying with one of our ex-ASL employees, you are being watched. If at any time they feel threatened or intimidated, they are asked to submit names to the 3rd floor. Consider yourself warned. One does not want to lose one’s job or be held back from upgrade now do we?

You see we always win and there is nothing you can do because you are cowards. Can’t even protect your own contract, we just keep taking and taking. Like candy from a kid really.

Looking forward to the new AFTL’s, you will enjoy them. We will receive yet another huge productivity gain for free. Here’s to that huge bonus.

Barring the housing and benefits, the Hong Kong based crews are extremely cheap. Much of our income is from other currencies which mean more profit for The Cathay Pacific Group and more bonuses.

The bonus keeps getting bigger and bigger and from the bottom of MY bonus, I thank you.

Unfortunate news is we may have to pay the thirteenth month to our Hong Kong based employees. If that changes, you will see our propaganda machine start up with the high cost of fuel and lower yields, so standby.

I would like to thank all the based crew whom went the extra effort this year but unfornately you will not receive a thirteenth month. Quite unfortunate but you signed it away many years ago, but thanks for the effort. It still increases my bonus which is the most important thing.

Again to all the crew who are helpful, professional and happy working for The Cathay Pacific Group we thank you, keep up the good work.

What many don’t realize in Hong Kong is we can impose any contract on our employees as long as it is an improvement in your Conditions of Service.

What we will do is implement many aspects of the previous offer and more but will offer a minimal pay rise. This pay rise will form part of your improved contract. If you accept the pay rise then you accept all other aspects of the new contract by acquiescence.
.

As we know pilots are greedy selfish people.

If you do not accept the new contract, you will have to write to the GMA saying you do not accept the new contract and pay rise. We will gladly not give you a pay rise.

We have contracts with many pilots in The Cathay Pacific Group; if we have two Conditions of Service it makes no difference to us. Look out DEFO's, there will be a merged pay scale.


As we know most will sign but some may elect to remain on the old contract at their peril (dismissal or non upgradable). You have that right as you are on separate contracts.

If the KA pilots feel left out, don’t. Yours is coming. We have seconded our Flying Management to see how we can integrate the pilots on our lower contract.


Most will sign to have an opportunity for a base. Some may say that the bases are full but we only publish what we need you to know. With our increase service to all continents there will be many more bases in the base area of your choice.

There will be many changes to The Cathay Pacific Group in the coming years and it will not be seen as beneficial to the pilots. Not many will leave as I have stated before. Most pilots just like to whine about leaving but never do. All talk. Typical pilots.

The Management

[Westcoastcapt]

Why anyone would sign any supposed new contract for such a meagre pay rise is beyond me. But then again, nothing surprises me anymore.

[FlexibleResponse]

In 1994, 95% of the flightdeck crew and I signed a contract for less pay, more flying hours (and virtually the elimination of overtime rates), and less annual leave under the threat of no more pay rises again in Hong Kong. Guess what? Nobody ever did get a pay-rise again in Hong Kong anyway! How funny is that!

In 1999, 100% of the flightdeck crew and I signed a contract for cuts in pay of between about 9 to 18% (reduced from about 12 to 27% after what amounted to a pilot mutiny and strike), under the threat of "sign or you are sacked"!

In the end it is all about money and "market forces".

You should give some consideration to the poor Directors whose annual bonuses depend on their success at cutting your pay and conditions.

[badairsucker]

If I get a new contract in my mailbox, my applications to other airlines will be going out from my mailbox.:ok:

[The Management]

Like I said, all talk. Sorry, but we don’t think you’ll be going anywhere.

The Management

[badairsucker]

Management,

I'll see you at the EK road show or maybe at the BA interviews. Ahhhh, where shall I go next!!!!!!!!!:E:E:E

[newiereef]

Heard the same rumour from a senior guy in the FOPs side.!!

[The Management]

It has been a week since the latest basing bids have been out and there were some low level meeting taking place.

So far we have noticed just over 20 base candidates for over 100 slots for First Officer positions. If these numbers do not increase we will have to release these to DEFO positions in the New Year. At that time we will have implemented a new DEFO pax/Freighter F/O scale. All new joiners will not have a choice of which aircraft type they choose. It will be 777 F/O out of JFK or Freighter F/O out of LAX, SFO, ORD or JFK. It will have the same pay and we will have a new COS with their new conditions.

We are getting many 2nd tier applicants who are only too happy to fly for The Cathay Pacific Group. These are all ex commuter airline types and The Cathay Pacific Group offers better conditions than they currently enjoy.

On the European side it will be DEFO onto the 744. It will be a mixture of interesting flying between the passenger and freighter, actually that will include all Captains and First Officers on the 744. Those Freighter Captains not yet able to hold a pax command will remain solely to fly freight until they are senior.

We are in the process of freezing all jokers in 2008, unnecessary training. We will award the bases to the applicant but we will not train them on type until 2009. This may upset some pilots but we have allocated next year jokers (7 in all) and those pilots have been notified of next year’s allotment. Please read clause 9.2 of the Permanent Basing agreement, we can and will use the following year’s allotment.

For those that are senior enough to hold bases, you will be awarded that base but you will not be trained until 2009. The reason is we are somewhat short on our freighter aircraft and we need those pilots to remain on the freighter for the time being.

We are busy training with the 777 fleet so all unnecessary training will cease.

Unfortunately we will not be able to pay passenger pay to those individuals until the time that pilot takes up training for the base.

All that unnecessary training will only increase my bonus. Yes we plan for our bonus in advance. It will be a good couple of years.

The KA pilots will only receive the CX pay when and only when they fly CX aircraft. When you sign over, you will be giving up certain benefits that KA pilots enjoy that new joiners at The Cathay Pacific Group don’t. Ask around you will eventually know what I mean; it ranges from travel to medical. You will find out in due course.

Enjoy your weekend and here to my bonus.

The Management

[drongo]

This is a somewhat predictable strategy as the group of pilots these new contracts will benefit the most only form the minority of the AOA. The company had to work out a way to bypass the AOA to appease this minority.

The minority of the AOA membership, the "A" scalers cannot win a vote to extend the age to 65. All the "politically correct" "spin" by the 3rd floor "mathematician" and his merry men as we all know is just a weak excuse. We have not seen the same push on the cabin crew contract front where they are forced out at 45.

Placing the contracts into the mailboxes is an acknowledgement that the "mathematician" knows the company cannot win the "B" scalers over, they took the view that "B" scalers were unable to calculate what this means for them.

The cost to each and every "B" scaler that is not presently a captain with the introduction of age 65 is in the order of millions of dollars. The "mathematician" must think "B" scalers cannot work out what the future value of a 3-5 year delay in promotion is to each and every non commader.

For a FO, the cost at the end of the day will be in the region of $3,000,000.00, about 2/5ths of that is due to the reduction in provident fund contributions (i.e. being extended as an FO means lower 15% contributions each month), the remaining 3/5th is the reduction in salary earned. For a SO, the cost is closer to $5,000,000.00.

Unlike "A" scalers, which have a defined benefits, delays in promotions significantly decreases what a "B" scaler earning power over their career. For some of the "B" scalers, the total package they will take home over their entire career (salary and provident fund), will not even come close to an "A" scalers provident fund.

The "A" scalers also take all the out port bases, the main reasons being the lifestyle, rosters, and the housing benefits for many of them in Hong Kong are only available to pay rent, not to build equity. Apparently "B" scalers do not have the same desires.

What the company is "taking" (pay, provident fund, basings, lifestyle, rosters) from the "B" scalers it is "giving" to the "A" scalers, that minority of the pilot body that think they are indispensable, the overall savings end up as management bonuses.

Obvious this is a move by the "mathematician" and his fellow "A" scalers to undermine the rest of the "B" scalers, and in the process :
1) delay promotions
2) reduce company contributions to "B" scale provident funds
3) reduce "B" scales non commander salaries as a result of delayed promotions
3) cost "B" scalers non commanders between 3-5 million dollars each
4) make basing impossible for existing "B" scale commanders
5) crew aircraft which apparently cannot be flown with an "A" scaler
6) align the freighter and passenger pay for now joiners, by reducing the passenger pay.

While all this is going on, "B" scalers have no idea of what other behind the door schemes the "mathematician" and his fellow "A" scalers have plotted. In fact this whole CoS process may have been planned lie this a year ago, full well knowing the initial negotiations will fail.

With so many of the "A" scalers knowing about this "contract" before the rest of the pilot body wreaks of collusion with management, and their argumentative response to the "B" scalers when they point out the massive costs to "B" scalers to this does nothing but to confirm that further.

[BusyB]

Another poster that thinks CX will give any savings from A-scales to B -scales. That's not how they work.
They work on "Divide and Conquer",......... Oops is that what you're doing?

Apt name by the way:}

[PanZa-Lead]

To think you are actually mature enough to fly an aeroplane...and to think you may be the head of a family......now go to your room and cry properly

[ChairmanBoysClub]

Most CX pilots are weak. I dont think we will see any new contracts in our mailboxes but if we do you will sign it just as you have signed it before. Because you are weak. We have seen it all before. Nothing is new. You are weak. You think you hold the best job in the world and you are all so proud of working for the Cathay Pacific Airways. You simply dont know any better because you are weak. Weak.

[Mr. Bloggs]

Funny this, all the B Scalers are thinking ya, drongo may be right, but all the A Scalers post, you're immature. Funny thing.:)

Sorry boys, you didn’t protect THE contract in 94 or 99 and this is where we end up. You had help in 99 but were too scared and as Flex said 100% signed. Hard to hold the line when everyone is running and hiding hoping it wouldn’t be them next only hoping that it gets better.:ugh:

How could the AOA actually consider extending pilots on A Scale when we have pilots on less travel, provident fund and medical conditions?:{

Drongo has a point.:ok:

[missingblade]

I just want to thank the Management and others who helped me so much lately in setting realistic goals for my future.

I understand that at the current rate of payrises vs inflation vs currency weakness I will actually earn only 15% more in real buying power when I get 4 bars as opposed to now.

I realize now that I will never be able to have a bigger boat than my current Hobie 16. I will also have to stay with the 1500cc Daihatsu - might get an 1800 though...
Realize too that the 1100sq Ft apartment in HKG will be my home for at least another 25 years since no bases available. Also thanks to your sagely advice I have just compensated for the lack if Prov Fund due to delayed command by upping my own contributions to the max. I am also not getting that little flat in Thailand anymore - I will just rent some of the senior guys Villas. And since we are in China anyway I told the wife the one child policy now applies to us as well.

Thank you so much for clearing all this up for me - planning for the 'future' is what it's all about!!

[knackeredII]

Question for the Management,

You mention that KA pilots will get Cathay pay when they fly Cathay aircraft, an extra 10-20% I'm guessing. My question is, are Cathay aircraft that much harder to fly?

Also, as Management, in your honest opinion, how much longer do you think management will be able to carry on this ruse of leading pilots to think they are expendable, lowly skilled and in oversupply? It's worked well the last few years but you must be getting nervous that the real facts are going to get out soon!

Awaiting your reply with interest.

[BusyB]

"How could the AOA actually consider extending pilots on A Scale when we have pilots on less travel, provident fund and medical conditions?"

Anyone who thinks the AOA makes these decisions is being really dumb.

Its legislation and CX that force the issue.

Once again your divisive actions play into management hands:ugh:

[Hellenic aviator]

As usual, The Management speaks words of wisdom - we truly are our own worst enemy :ugh::ugh::ugh:
Let's face it - if we get a new contract in our mailboxes with a 5% pay cut - what will we do ? What will most guys do ?
Ans: They'll sign and come to work to whine about it to their colleagues.....but they'll still come to work.
Like I have always said - we deserve what we get since we don't have KAHUNAS big enough to make a stand. It's not the AOA that is to have the finger pointed at, it's the pilot group as a whole - and so long as we have people on their own agenda and not the welfare of the current pilot group and the future ones wanting a career here, these postings and discussions amongst us shall continue to entertain the Management....and those of us who posses a cynical outlook of the whole ordeal :ouch:

[Mr. Bloggs]

Didn't we almost have a vote on it?:sad: Didn't see CX force the issue. It will be forced soon I reckon.

[dogleg]

It was openly discussed in a fleet forum this past week by the 400 Chief Pilot (HC).
Just ask anyone who was there...

[The Management]

It’s not a ruse it’s a fact. Pilots are a dime a dozen. We have many applicants from second tier operators applying to The Cathay Pacific Group. We offer superior conditions to what those pilots currently enjoy and they get to fly shiny jets. They don’t care about medical after retirement. When they do, it’s too late for them to start over somewhere else at the bottom of a seniority list.

Yes you are expendable and there will always be a supply of pilots. As for the lowly skilled part, well you may think you are highly skilled but we consider the pilots down right DUMB. The way we chip at your contract speaks for itself. Pilots are idiots.

Remember we bought KA, you will receive what we are willing to give you. There is much to ones contract than just salary. Lowering benefits will also increase my bonus.

The Management.

[slapfaan]

TO: the "MISmanagement"

Mate...

You seem so obsessed with your "bonus" ..why don't you shove it up your arse!!!

And really,your posts are getting extremely boring, trying to piss off every pilot on this forum..and to think that some idiots actully fall for it...

Get a life..and get it NOW...you're pathetic to say the least...:yuk:

[BusyB]

slapfaan,

I think you've lost it.:}

Try looking up the word SATIRE, heres a link.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire

[jtr]

and to think that some idiots actully fall for it...

hmmmm:hmm:

[ChairmanBoysClub]

I freakin' love The Management. He is one of the only ones in here who speaks the true words of "the other side". Because you are weak you will get as little as the management sluts can get away with. If you are lucky that will be a status quo. Wet dreams about pay rises etc etc without paying for it.. HAHA what a laugh. It will never happen. Go to the pub and figure it out. :ok:

[Sqwak7700]

hmmmm:hmm:

That was too good JTR. I was thinking the same thing when I read slutfans reply. Let's hope he doesn't vote...:ok:

[The Management]

# Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.

Writing etc that makes someone look foolish

I like the stupidity and foolish part, rather fitting don’t you think.

Is it Satire?

And we do have the tapes of Captain HC fleet forum. Just gauging your reaction. Of course no one spoke against it. Acceptance and fear come to mind.

Here’s to my bonus.

The Management

[Mr. Bloggs]

I think if I were from the good ole US of A, I would come to CX, get a 747-400 rating, fly the freight for a bit and have my CV in at UPS and Fed Ex from day one of the rating. This would work great if you came from a regional jet or turbo prop as The Management says. Free ratings.:ok:

Maybe it will help get on with a legacy carrier in the US.:ok:

Unless you like getting a pineapple shoved up the backside every year, this is the place for you.:eek::eek:

That would really :mad: your bonus.:ok:

[knackeredII]

Note to Management,

Sir, i am relieved that you are maintaining your view of pilots/employees for the long term, as I feel it serves our (the pilots) interests best in the long term if you keep those blinkers on. I will begin to worry when you start showing concern for your employees.

Forever you servant.

[CYRILJGROOVE]

The Old chestnut of impose something worse than first offered, that will teach em!

Seems like they want the Bad Old Days again, amazing really, but hey thats CX thru and thru. GMA gets a 1 for spin doctor skills

[tx_dfw]

does any one understand the Seniority integration and explain it in plain terms.

[kabuzz]

Cx salaries to be downwardly mobile and fully integrated with their Ka brothers:E

Due to the fairly straight forward nature of Cx's flying, it begs the question of why would Cx need to pay any more anyway?

Easy life I recon, so go buy a house and make the some big bucks guys, ok? There's always more to making money in HK, than just a monthly pay packet, geddit?

[Freehills]

Missingblade said

"I realize now that I will never be able to have a bigger boat than my current Hobie 16. I will also have to stay with the 1500cc Daihatsu - might get an 1800 though...
Realize too that the 1100sq Ft apartment in HKG will be my home for at least another 25 years since no bases available. Also thanks to your sagely advice I have just compensated for the lack if Prov Fund due to delayed command by upping my own contributions to the max. I am also not getting that little flat in Thailand anymore - I will just rent some of the senior guys Villas. And since we are in China anyway I told the wife the one child policy now applies to us as well.

Thank you so much for clearing all this up for me - planning for the 'future' is what it's all about!!"

Just got to thinking – is this a generational thing? House prices in much of the world went up so much, that I can’t imagine a young pilot in Sydney or London is any better off. In the US, pilots have for a long time now had a culture of commuting from Smalltown, where cost of living is cheap, to expensive urban bases.

Basically, in just about any career except investment banking, the baby boomers won. Training/ university tended to get paid for back in the day, high inflation reduced the real cost of mortgages, they got final salary pensions, their properties went through the roof. Compare with now – student loans, silly property prices, piss-poor pensions, and no high inflation to help debts reduce.

1100 sq ft in a major city? Unfortunately, that isn’t bad – check out the crap 700 sq ft places in UK at 250k gbp

I blame the end of the cold war myself. Damn Eastern Block, China and India deciding to go capitalist…!

[cxflyer]

Leave,
We didnt want you in 93 and we don't really now. I'm tired of giving up any pay raises due to the likes of you. Go somewhere else.