WHATS MY CHANCES?

[taildragger2]

Hi guys

I'll keep this as brief as possible.I'm 21, 160 hrs, PPL, Night rating, Multi eng. rating, revising for my ATPL groundschool and just applied to a London flying club for an ops job. First of all I would like to know whats the general standard of applicants for such jobs? (ie. are they as well qualified flying wise as myself) I am told the salary is £11,000, it seems fair to me but is this a fair pay packet? In your professional opinions is it a good idea for a flight student to apply for such jobs while still working towards my ATPL? Bear in mind that my savings are fast running out. Thanks for your time and if I get the job I may become a regular............................Tailwinds................ TD2

[vipero]

OMG! Another wannabe...
Good luck ops dept
Ciao
Paolo

[taildragger2]

OH that helps THANKS!

[The Groover]

Whoooa, back off Vipero, some of us are getting a bit tired of this them and us attitude, obviously not much team spirit in the land of the vespa.
Lets face it flying clubs are not exactly going to interfere with your cosy little world, or are they ???
Taildragger, in answer to your question, most flying clubs in London seem to favour guys with some flying experience, and hey, most even say in their ads that there is a posibility of discounted flying.
Good luck to you, and hey not all of us are bitter and twisted pilot haters !!!!


The Groooooooooooovemachine

[SKYYACHT]

Taildragger 2,

If its the flying club I'm thinking of, then yes, it sounds fair. It is probably a uniformed position, and You will be expected to be work shifts, and during summer months up until sunset, which as u know is around 2200 ish around mid june. However, u will get your face known, and u will also in all probability get staff discount off flying rates for the hire of aircraft. Have fun, and dont allow the childish petty jealousies of some (Unrepresentative - I know) ground-pounders put you off. I get the impression that Vipero is quite embittered. I am a pilot Vipero, and I too worked for an airline as a "huumble agent in Flight Operations", and did much hard work and long hours. Just because we want to fly, doesnt mean that we deserve your negative comments. We are not all arrogant with strange attitudes. Perhaps some self examination is required? We all start somewhere.

Tailwinds

:)_

[lalapanzi]

Vipero - you are displaying all the hallmarks of a failed wannabe. Your general answers are http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/paladin/uzi.gif the pilots.
The more pilots that come via ops/crewing the better. At least they will appreciate what's it all about!

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say it with icons!

[taildragger2]

Hi guys

Thanks for all the replies (and icons!). I think it is the same school SKYYACHT, my interests unlike vipero extend to all forms of aviation and I for one do appreciate that for every pilot thats in the air theres a bunch of guys on the ground working just as hard! My reasons for going for this job are varied but I think working "on the other side" would look good on the CV, I do have a genuine desire to do the job, It seems like a very nice little airfield with friendly people and the practical experience I gain on the ground must really help when my time comes for climbing into the cockpit! The hours don't bother me as it's well compensated for with shift time off and YES the staff flying rates are good! If I get the job I hope to become a regular thread poster here in ops alongside my usual haunt over in F/D forums......Cheers for the post all!....................................................Tail winds........TD2

[SKYYACHT]

Hmm, Its all very quite here from Vipero.
Either on shift or frantic with thinking up some new vitriol.

Good luck TD2 - Remember, Nil Carborundum Illegitimus!

Enjoy the flying - But duck when the AN2s ponder into the air.....be careful climbing the watch tower too....ladder is damn slippery in wet.

Tailwinds#

[taildragger2]

Cheers SY

That watch tower is incredible isn't it! Hope I get the job, I should find out in the next week or two so fingers crossed. Did you work there? I think it's a really nice little airfield but I was wondering if you had any idea of flat or house prices (RENT) as if I get the job I don't fancy sleeping in my car!.................Tailwinds........TD2

[vipero]

Boys, you're right!
I dislike pilots, and cabin crews in general. Why? Not because I'm a disappointed wannabe, but because after 10 years experience as Flight Dispatcher and Ground Ops I know flying crews (airline crews at least).
And, I'm sure about that, I'm not the only one...ask 100 ops staff what they really think about crews and see.

No offense to anyone, but it's true that wannabees working during their "wait-for-my-wings" are not good for us, it takes too long to make one a good ops guy...starting again and again doesn't help our job. That's all. Nothing personal.
May I have the right to show my disappointment when wannabees look for a job in ops dept while waiting? I'm not killing anyone.
Ciao
Paolo

"Flight Dispatchers tell pilots where to go"

[This message has been edited by vipero (edited 23 February 2001).]

[taildragger2]

Vipero

Your sterotypical view of flightcrew is very disappointing! How can anyone turn round and say I don't like everyone who does a certain job? You seem to have a negative outlook on life in general, are you happy in your job?

I am not just going for an ops job while "waiting for my wings." I want to gain valuable experience in as many forms of the aviation world as possible, I've worked in ATC and airfield maintainence before now for nothing more than a genuine love for the whole package and to suggest I wouldn't give the job due care and attention is an absolute insult! I'll have you know my enthusiam for any job is unfaultering be it in the air or on the ground.

I will say my ultimate goal is the left hand seat in the cockpit but that's not a crime, it's simply a future goal. While I accept you have plenty of experience in the Ground ops and dispach field I also believe the more pilots that see "your side of aviation" the better as they then can appreciate what goes on behind the scenes and that in turn would destroy pitiful attitudes such as yours so we can all work as a team to complete our given tasks competently and efficiently without as Groover said this "Them and us" attitude. Perhaps your dislike for aircrew has developed due to the poor attitude of some pilots who don't (unlike myself) appreciate your line of work, does that prove a point?..............................................*Dispatc hers don't tell instructors where to go!*..................................................Tailwi nds...........TD2

[lalapanzi]

Vipero - sadly it sounds like you need to move on. You've had 10 years to educate aircrew into understanding the role of Ops/Dispatch, but obviously failed.
The art of the good dispatcher is to instill confidence in the aircrew in such a way that they accept without question what they are being advised.
And just for you no icons!

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say it with icons!

[This message has been edited by lalapanzi (edited 23 February 2001).]

[taildragger2]

Here Here Lalapanzi.....I couldn't have said it any better!............Tailwinds......TD2

[JB007]

I feel I must make a small comment at this point...!!!

Lala/Taildragger,
Well said boys !!!!

As someone who has been working in Ops/Crewing departments for nearly 8 years and who is now undergoing full-time training towards the ATPL, I personally can think of no better bedding ground for my career's next step.

Taildragger, I started with the same very thoughts as yours and if you are thinking the same as myself and would like to move into Flight Management in years to come, you are going the best way about it.

Having a full working knowledge of how an airline is run operationally will only help you and the Ops Dept. when you are sat at the sharp-end with a commercial decision to make and from my experiance in Crew Control the best flight crew to deal with are the chaps who have also had some ops experiance.

I believe my present airline are thinking along these lines as they have been more than helpful in giving me all the time off I needed.

Hope you can find a similar Airline TD.

Your atitude is somewhat from the darkages Vipero...

Cheers
007

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Hear All...See All...Say Now't.

[email protected]
(I'm away for a while!)



[This message has been edited by JB007 (edited 23 February 2001).]

[PiperChauffeur]

Vipero, you should be glad for the fact that so many dispatchers join the flight crews. The more pilots with background in dispatching, the more will know who to blame when the proverbial **** hits the fan. You must hold a special interest in this, otherwise, you wouldent have started the other thread about the ops dept beeing blamed for everything.

I would like to give TD2 a (premature) welcome to the ops world.
PC

PS: Anyone knows where i can get a keyboad that spells better tahn this??? http://www.geocities.com/thehugmonster/animations/iconpuke.gif

[This message has been edited by PiperChauffeur (edited 23 February 2001).]

[vipero]

My fault!
at the end, this place is called "Prof pilots etc...". How can I come into a pilots' nest saying: "I hate pilots!"...ok, never do it again.
I don't really hate pilots of course, many of them are friends of mine. And nothing against wannabees except that, from my point of view, it's a waste of time teaching them knowing they're leaving (and you know what I mean!). Nothing against pilots in my office watching and learning what we're doing, they're always welcome.
But there's a "us and them"...unfortunately this is true and I repeat: ask 100 flight dispatcher/ops controller and see what they think about flying crews attitude.
I don't really want to offend anyone, really! If my ideas are in an any way offensive, lemme know and I'll stop it.
Ciao
Paolo

"Flight Dispatchers tell pilots (and instructors first) where to go"

p.s.
Lala, no icons on me...that hurts...

[SKYYACHT]

Vipero, you are a very sad, strange little man. By your last post, you have displayed to all that you are both an intellectual and cultural pygmy. I accept, and have metioned before that I have met the OCCASIONAL flight crew member with a chip on his/her shoulder, but they have been in the minority. What is so special about having worked in operations for ten years. I have worked in a very busy Flight Operations/Despatch for seven years, and whilst doing that I also a) worked as an aircraft cabin cleaner b)An airport security guard, and c) in passenger services - in order to pay for my flying licence and hours. I am now a Flight Crew Instructor for a major airline. I might add that I also hold formal qualifications in flight operations and despatch. Your cynical attack on the flight deck community is a poor reflection on your professionalism, and unfortunately shames you. I am certainly VERY glad that I do not have to receive my Flight Crew Briefing or despatch details from you. I suggest that you find yourself a job more in keeping with your attitudes, perhaps as a despatcher for a minicab company.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Taildragger II - Remember TD2, that not all despatchers/Operations staff are the same. Also remember that IT IS HARD TO SOAR WITH EAGLES WHEN YOU WORK WITH TURKEYS!

BTW, You will find accomodation around the field in question a bit pricey. I seem to remember that the club you are joining has some accomodation for instructors. If not, you will be bound to find something in Slough, or Maidenhead. Prices vary but shared house will set you back a couple of hundred a month.

[vipero]

"IT IS HARD TO SOAR WITH EAGLES WHEN YOU WORK WITH TURKEYS!"

Does it work the same with turkeys thinking to be eagles?

Ciao
Paolo

"Flight Dispatchers tell pilots where to go"

[taildragger2]

Hi Guys

Vipero, I really can't be bothered trying to make you see my point of view any more, your obviously a very naive and bitter chap that is in rapid need of a personality transplant!..Turkey!

For everyone else that has offered me the support and help I sought, THANK YOU.
I've just got back from a very pleasent and relaxed second interview with the airfield director. I think all went well, we had plenty to chat about, from the C.V to past flying experience and on several occasions he reminded me about the need for a multi tasking, forward thinking attitude along with the benefits of having eight limbs to complete all the given tasks in time! Should be quite a challenge! This will be my first worthwhile step onto the aviation ladder so I wait with baited breath. All told I should find out by next Tuesday if the job's mine so fingers crossed, I may be talking to you in four days time as a fellow professional! Once again thanks for all the post and advice, if anyone can offer any more it will be most welcome, esp if you know of any good property websites for the Maidenhead, Slough or West London area. See you all soon........................................................ ..Tailwinds............................TD2.

[taildragger2]

Hi All

Just to let you know that I have just been offered the job (much to Viperos dismay!) and will no doubt be posting new threads in the closing months regarding my new position, I start in a week so must get my skates on to find accom. etc etc. I'm really looking forward to it and hope it's the right move to make, ATPL distance learning courses from now on!!! :)
Thanks again for all the advice and I shall see you all on " the other side " :)

....................Tailwinds.......TD2

[SKYYACHT]

CONGRATS TD2 - WELCOME TO THE RANKS OF THOSE SUCCESFUL OPS STAFF WHO HAVE MADE IT AS AIRCREW....OR IS IT THE OTHER WAY ROUND CURRENTLY. BEST OF BRITISH. ONCE U HAVE SETTLED IN, PERHAPS A CELBRATORY BEER WOULD BE IN ORDER.

TAILWINDS

:) :)

[taildragger2]

Thanks SKYYACHT

With a bit of luck it will be succesfull ops staff and aircrew!....Celebration Beer........HHHMMMMMMM........OH GO ON THEN :) see ya there!........................Tailwinds.......TD2.

[lordflashart]

Congrats to Taildragger, but seriously chaps, not to bad mouth all flight deck but some of you do not engender a team effort by snotty attitudes in the "office". Vips, you are way out line, I've been in this industry 20 years and you get good and bad every where. Most flight deck guys/gals appreciate the extra mile we often go, but if they don't then don't do it.

I would't be a pilot as I enjoy the ground work and I would be bored flying but that's me. Taildragger we are't all bad, but remember that a good disaptcher is worth their weight in gold to get you out on time and safely.

The training does not seem to be as good as when I first started dispatching on 748's and Bac-11's. We are trying in our lot to bring it up, but we all know those brick wall's.