PDA

View Full Version : Help to ID Prop Brand/Company


Torontoworker
2nd Oct 2007, 20:16
Good Day to all,

I own what I suspect is a prop from an Avro Anson IV and would like to pin down the manufacturer of this prop. I have sent pic's of this prop to different experts including one well known online website that specializes in identifying propellers without much success. I have even contacted a museum in Western Canada that looks to have the same type of prop on it’s Anson and they couldn’t help me either and referred me back to the enthusiasts website I had contacted earlier! (Sigh)

The stampings on the prop date from 1943 and it appears to have been manufactured in the USA. I don’t have all the data in front of me off the prop but the Engine HP and Type rating make it appear as if it could have been used on an RCAF Anson, possibly a Lend Lease product that was supplied along with the Wright Engine (Stamped on Upper hub) that was shipped to Canada during the war.

The only hints given to me concerning the manufacturer is that it may have been built by one of the many of the small furniture companies who were contracted with early in the build up to the USA entering the war. Many of these companies simply disappeared or went back to consumer products after 1945.

The scripting appears to be read as: RLL Co. or even LL R Co. as the scripting overlaps, although I believe it to be read RLL Co. myself. Goggle searches have come up blank incidentally.

The provenance of this prop is RCAF based (Has RCAF inspection stamp) and it possibly came out of either Duneville, Mount Hope or Jarvis aerodromes air training bases, which makes sense since I purchased it from an antique store in the Hamilton Ontario.

I contacted the Canadian DND last year and did an, “Access to Information” search on war materials - disposal records of such and found that other then airframe serial numbers and some engine numbers, records appear not to have been kept (or were destroyed) of other “war” materials such as propellers and the like.

Does anyone recognize the manufacturers logo or could give me further leads as to someone who can be of further help.

Thanks.

Pictures Belowhttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/torontoworker/HPIM0031.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/torontoworker/HPIM0030.jpg

MReyn24050
2nd Oct 2007, 21:24
Have you tried this website?
http://woodenpropeller.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

Torontoworker
3rd Oct 2007, 00:17
Yes, this was the site I was not mentioning by name - but no joy there either.

evansb
3rd Oct 2007, 01:06
I am looking into the origin of the logo on your Anson propellor. So far, no joy. Only the British built Mark IV Anson was powered by a Wright Whirlwind engine. Some sources read that a few Canadian built Anson IVs were Wright powered as well. Could your propellor be British built? The style of the logo is quite un-American for the era, as it appears more British in style and format. It resembles the De Havilland and Rolls-Royce style of logo:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/dhlogo.jpghttp://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/rollslogo.jpg



You mentioned Lend-Lease equipment shipped to Canada from the United States. Canada was not part of the Lend-Lease programme you infer.
Canada, in fact, operated its own programme, and sent $4.7 billion in supplies to Britain and Soviet Russia during World War II. A large amount of Lend-Lease material did, however, pass through Canada. Canada did not have an external debt at the end of the war, in fact, many countries owed Canada a great deal.

evansb
3rd Oct 2007, 13:31
Regarding further research on your propeller, try e-mailing The RAF Museum in London. They have a superb staff on hand who just may be able to answer your question.


The web site is available at rafmuseum.org.uk/london

Torontoworker
3rd Oct 2007, 20:08
Thank you for your feedback Evansb I shall take up your suggestion concerning the RAF museum people.

Interestingly, although the Anson Mk2 should or did come with the Jacobs 330hp engine, my prop has a stamping on it for a much higher HP, which as far as I understand was not welcomed on an Anson because of the all wood prop, (non feathering feature) made a sudden single engine go around on take off - a bad deal so to speak.

I met an old timer at a regional airport who told me that the best option was to cut power on both engines (if fully loaded) and look for the flattest spot directly ahead you wanted to crash on. Notice he didn't say land on!:ouch:





http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/torontoworker/TopofHubData.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/torontoworker/BottomofHubData.jpg


This is all I have found on the R-975 powered Anson:


The Anson Mk II was the first variant to be completely built in Canada, differing from the Mk I in its Jacobs engines, hydraulically powered flaps and landing gear, and a molded plywood nose. Fifty of the Canadian-manufactured Mk IIs were supplied to the U. S. Army as the AT-20 crew trainer.

Subsequent Ansons manufactured in Canada under the BCATP were fitted either with Jacobs L-6MB (Mk III) or Wright Whirlwind R-975-E3 (Mk IV) radial engines. Canada also manufactured an Anson (Mk V) that used plywood completely in its fuselage, which proved useful in Canadian magnetic surveying after the war. A single gunnery training sample (Mk VI) was built in 1943. Mark numbers VII, VIII and IX were set aside for future Canadian varieties that never materialized, while Britain resumed manufacturing with the Anson Mk X, which was a Mk I with a stronger cabin floor, intended for freight and passenger use, while Marks XI and XII saw the raising of the cabin roof for passenger comfort (both marks), and the addition of all metal wings (MK XII, series 2), with both marks also being produced in ambulance variations. Marks XIII, XIV, XV and XVI were assigned but never produced, while MK XVII was never allotted.

From: http://www.warbirdalley.com/anson.htm

I've been told that the "X" in the drawing serial number may also stand for experimental.

Torontoworker
4th Oct 2007, 04:02
Found the maker (on my own)!!

RLL Co. stands for the Robert Laidlaw Lumber Company.

The company was in business from 1886 until 1972 in Toronto making mainly fine furniture. Made prop's to support the war effort.

Now the hunt is on for more information as to the use of my prop and location of the company records. I'm betting it was on an Anson mark 4. The company is still around as a charity so I'll start there.