Oxford, CTC or Jerez/FTE?...

[allblacks90]

I have just graduated from university and want to become a commercial pilot but I am undecided about where to apply. CTC, Oxford and Jerez/FTE seem to be the top 3 -- Oxford seems to have the name but the facilities and comparative value for money at Jerez especially seems attractive baring in mind all the exras tagged on by Oxford. Does anyone with experience of the training schools feel strongly about which is the best or have an idea about the pros and cons of each? Also is there a basic book that someone could recommend for reading before interview so that I'm not suprised by industry specific questions?

[bri1980]

Please go and visit the Schools. Oxford put on seminars every now and again that you an go to-see their website.

Do your research thorougly-what are your employment prospects? The schools would have you believe that where you train makes all the difference, but in truth they are trying to relieve you of £60-70k so they would say that. Don't believe everything schools tell you!

Your list omits Cabair and Pilot Training College of Ireland. You may decide against these places, but good research demands you look at them.

CTC is a good option if you can get in because it's the least risky route for the student.

A thorough search on this forum should answer many of your questions, and viiting the schools (where practial) should answer many of the others.

Also be aware that the modular route is far cheaper.

Finally, you don't mention if you have flown before, but a few trial lessons might be a good idea to see if you really like flying and have some aptitude for it: not everyone does.

Good luck-your'e at the start of a very steep learning curve!

Bri

[TTango]

Hi and welcome to PPRune.

You will find a lot of information on both industry specific interview questions and the pros and cons of the various integrated schools if you use the search function. :ok:

[skyhighbird]

Can I ask why Cabair was ommited from your list? I thought there was a top 4, CTC, Oxford, FTE and Cabair.

I'd really like to now why Cabair is considered to be outside the top 3. lol- sounds like a football question.

But it does seem that peaople have more issues with Cabair compared to anywhere else. Is it because if you join Cabair, you don't get to go off to New Zealand?

i'd really like to know.

[allblacks90]

A couple of people have sent messages asking why I omitted Cabair, the reason is nothing more than the 3 pilots I have spoken to regarding training have all favoured the 3 I mentioned. I guess the glamour of warmer shores elsewhere may have been persuasive.

Regarding employment statistics, only oxford states exactly where each graduate has ended up, I wonder whether old affiliations (e.g. Oxford -- BA, Jerez -- Thompson Fly, CTC -- Easyjet ... TO NAME A FEW) still stand firm, or if a Cabair graduate has just as much chance at BA as an equally qualified Oxford graduate...

[bri1980]

Personally, I think you need to do some serious research. Your opinions of the 3 or 4 schools you are interested seem to be based on flimsy conjecture and the opinions of a few pilots.

Do you think going to Oxford will give you a large advantage whn applying-is the advantage that you will get worth the extra money you will pay over and above Cabair or anywhere else? I suspect the advantage you will get won't be worth the extra money-in my honest opinion.

I'm not meaning to be nasty-far from it. I'm meaning to make you do proper homework, and maybe save a lot of your (or your family's) money into the bargain.

B

[AlphaMale]

Regarding employment statistics, only oxford states exactly where each graduate has ended up, I wonder whether old affiliations (e.g. Oxford -- BA, Jerez -- Thompson Fly, CTC -- Easyjet ... TO NAME A FEW) still stand firm, or if a Cabair graduate has just as much chance at BA as an equally qualified Oxford graduate...

CTC -- Easyjet
Oxford -- BA
FTE -- Thompson Fly
Cabair -- FlyBe

These are the top 4 I'd imagine but the more you research and uncover the truths you'll see they all have bad points, with the least being CTC ... keep in mind it's harder to get in but you probably have a 99% of getting you a RHS after graduating.

As for "only oxford states exactly where each graduate has ended up" I doubt they added the students who didn't get a job after spending £70k? :rolleyes:

Cabair Graduates (http://www.cabair.com/careerpilot/graduates.htm)

Good luck.

[Exhibitz]

As for CTC being Easyjet, this is rubbish. CTC currently have 9 partner airlines with 1 to be added hopefully this thursday. Yes, Easyjet is one, but they have equal amounts sent to each. BA have already sent their quota for next year for the students they require from CTC, so I know for sure CTC gives you a good opportunity to get into any airline you wish. (Students usually get to choose THEMSELVES which airlines they wish to work for in the future, unlike most other options). Currently with a 100% employment rate after successful completion of the course, this is really a safe option if you can get in.

[PAJ]

CTC have 9 partner airlines??? That's news to me (and I'm half way through my training in NZ)! MyTravel now no longer exist after their take over by Thomas Cook. That leaves easyJet, BA, First Choice, Thomsonfly (I'm listing these two seperately although they have merged as well under the TUI Group but have not stated whether they are to keep operating individually or as one airline yet), Jet2, Monarch and Thomas Cook. However, the statement about CTC primarily feeding easyJet is very true. I do not know the exact figures but I am under the impression that about 70% go to easy, the rest spread around the other airlines. Obviously things change quickly- easy have been going through a period of consolidation as have the charter operators after merging, and BA are going to need a lot of pilots to cope with the deficit that's starting to open up as pilots retire.

As has been said already, do a lot of research before you part with the cash and be very aware of the marketing talk you will get from each training organisation.

[aemowens]

Hi PAJ (and anyone else who is at CTC),

I have been trying to find out about CTC and what kind of place it is etc, being in NZ its a bit hard to pop over and check out the campus like you can for OAT etc! So I was wondering if you could give me some insight into what it is like over there? What is the accomodation like etc? Do you actually get much time off (I hear they work you quite hard!), and is it correct that you pop back to the UK after 6 months for exams/holiday then go back again?

Sorry for all the questions, they seem to hold back a bit on the website, and offer to tell you all during selection! Also, finance wise, if you 'raise' the £60000 with the bank, do you have to raise much more than that? I got a little confused because it said that you raise £60,000 as a bond, and then pay for your foundation training? I think I may have read it a little wrong.

Hope it is all going well out there, people keep telling me it is the best option for training, but they are mainly people who haven't actually been there so any info you could give me would be great!

Thanks :)

Ann

[PAJ]

aemowens,

I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can. I'll start with the facilities - I visited Cabair and OAT so can perform some basis of comparison. CTC's facilities out here in NZ are at least on a par with these, in fact I would go so far as to say they are a little better. As CTC has expanded, the facilities are getting used to capacity now which is good in terms of efficiency but there has been the very odd occasion where we have been left without a classroom. Usually this is not a problem though. The flight planning facilities are excellent - we have computers we can use to get hold of any relevant enroute info, weather, notams, aerodrome data, airways info and file flight plans. There are a number of briefing rooms for pre/post flight briefs and the larger classrooms are all kitted out with projectors and computers for all cadets. Fleet-wise, the fleet is growing as the new Alpha 160s continue to be delivered. I'm not sure of the exact number of aircraft at the moment but it's in the region of 10 Alphas, 12 C-172's, 2 Piper Seminoles and 7 DA42 Twinstars. These are all kept on our own aprons which are right outside the training centre and about a 50 m taxi from the C1 holding point from Rwy 36! As an airport to fly from, Hamilton is excellent as it does get busy and we regularly have ATRs/Beech 1900/Q300s coming in through the day as well as our 06:20 alarm clock, and Air NZ A320!

The accommoation is comparable to Uni halls of residence (although nice ones, not the £35 per week halls!). You are either put into accommodation in town (about 15 mins drive from the airport) which is perhaps not quite as plush as Clearways but you have the benefit of being right in town in excellent locations. Clearways is the main CTC accommodation and is custom built for us. Another block is due to start building in the next few weeks actually. Clearways is really nice - ensuite, kitchenette in each room with microwave, kettle and sink. There is also a large kitchen in each block shared by all with cookers, ovens and dishwashers, and a large common room with 42in TVs and Table Tennis tables. Clearways also has a small gym onsite. The only thing with Clearways is that you are 15 mins from a bar/ supermarket/ Domino's - it is right under the short final approach path for Rwy 18 so you cannot really be much closer to the airport, but at the same time is is just in the middle of a big field!

You are right in assuming you come home mid-way through your training for about 6 weeks. It is about 7 months after you first leave for NZ and it's main purpose is so that you can get the first 8 ATPL exams done. You spend 2 weeks at Bristol Groundschool brushing up and then a week at the exam centre and the rest of the time is leave. It's then back to NZ for the final 4-5 months.

The £60k is a bond goes to CTC to reduce the risk on their part for your training and covers everything apart from the foundation course including flights to/ from UK and accommodation. The Foundation course costs about NZ$12,000 (about £4200) and you are refunded for any of the 68 hours that involves that you do not use (dont expect any of that back if you do not have a current PPL though) and it's purpose is to train you to the 'Wings Cadet' standard so that you can enter the Wings scheme. Effectively, you are not a Wings cadet until you pass this phase. The standard is very high (nearly CPL level is what they are looking for from Integrated cadets now) but it they are training you to be the best in the industry so it needs to be. So the only other costs you need to cover are your day-to-day living costs. CTC give you a car and van per course which they service but you must pay the fuel. Depending how shrewd you are with your spending can greatly influence how much a year out here costs, but NZ$200 per week is more than enough - $100 is probably just do-able if you don't drink at the weekend!! HSBC will lend you up to £75k to cover the bond, foundation and living costs up to £10k but beware that the interest is fairly hefty - for £75k, you will repay about £105k I think.

There have been a couple of niggles here and there which have put a few people off, particularly when the DA20 Katanas were grounded due to fuel system problems but all in all, the training here is excellent. I have very few complaints and am confident that I will be in a better position than the competition when I finish training. Hope that has been of some help.

[wings_2007]

Hello PAJ,

My name is James and I'm hoping to follow you into flight training in two years time after finishing my A-levels.

I have just returned from a Flyer Exhibition in London, and was introduced to CTC. I have to say I was very impressed on what they offer over Cabair, FTE, etc, however, after reading some previous posts I do have some questions that hopefully you can answer in relation to the bond and extra costs.

No one at the exhibition mentioned the foundation course. Firstly, could you tell me what this is, and its relevance in the course.

In relation to the £60,000 "bond" and it's re-payment upon commencing employment, can you please explain whether this is re-paid monthly, how much of it is re-paid monthly and whether I should add this to any salary that I would earn.

Finally, I would like to ask you about the selection and aptitude testing. Is there any advice you could give me? How many people who apply actually get on the course?

I look forward to hearing your reply, and good luck with the course.

regards
wings_2007

[EZYramper]

Hi wings.

If you pop over to the CTC Wings Cadet Thread it will answer every question you have about the course, selection, finance, accommodation and everything else regarding the CTC wings cadet scheme.

It's pretty long (well, VERY long) but it has everything you could ever want to know.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250640

enjoy!

[wings_2007]

EZYramper,

Thanks for the thread! Hopefully the information will answer my questions.

wings_2007

[aemowens]

Hi PAJ,
Thanks for the reply, sorry for the slow thanks! I have only just found the thread again!
I've just done stage 3, and passed, I'm pleased to say. Everything you've said sounds great, I'm really looking forward to it, and it seems there are very few bad things to say about the course or the place!

Hope its still going well out there, if all goes to plan, I'll be going out in May. Fingers x'd!

Ann