ajv contract in tokyo

[redbaron60]

Hi guys,

anybody can tell me something about this contract? Are people o.k? Will they update salary regardind usd recent devaluation? What are the sectors flown?
Is the job well organized?

I should be sim screened on Nov.02 and wondering if I am taking the right decision as I would very much like a new experience on long haul and this is apparently the only place where they give you type rating on long haul aircrafts for dec.;)

Thanks for any infos you will provide

[galdian]

"will they update salary regarding usd recent devaluation?"

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Sorry, I was looking for the smilie that says "I am rolling on the floor, holding my sides so they do not burst from the mirth you have created within me" - but there ain't one!

You really have no idea about how these guys think (or not), do you??

Here's an oxymoron for you - japan, logical thinking.

After all that - although I have no defititive answer I would be most surprised if the thought would ever cross their minds; I would be totally amazed if they ever actually DID something similar.

The really strange part - if they were to clean up their contracts along these lines, but as importantly make the communting easier and more beneficial for all involved they would be able to consider applications from hundreds, not dozens.

I would have thought that beneficial to the corperation - but WTF**K do I know - I am, after all, a gaijin. :( :E

Sorry about the stolen thread but your question has been answered - with a bit more thrown in which has to be a bonus! :ok:

[The Dominican]

The question is not if the Japanese would adjust your contract based on international monetary fluctuations. The question is who would do that anywhere in the world?:confused:

Do a search in this forum, there is plenty of information on this contract.

[777birdcage]

Emirates provides a salary protection sceme....... So there is at least one company..

BC

[Webslinger]

Word right now is you may interview for both companies but AJV is fat on crews. Looking for Capts. and FO's for the AJX side of things.

[NZLeardriver]

What is the difference between the two? Basing or hours?

[Lear70]

I filled out the application some months ago, they offered the interview, and I turned it down at the time for family reasons but have reconsidered and reapplied last week.

When I reapplied, they sent me a new sheet that had me state my preference and what I would do if not selected for those positions. I marked 1st choice AJV (passenger) CA, 2nd choice AJX (cargo) CA, and none of the F/O slots, saying I would continue applying until a CA position became available.

They sent me an email today offering an AJX CA interview slot. I inquired about the AJV side (passenger) and they didn't respond. A large part of the interest was flying in a passenger environment so I don't know how to be more firm about that without being abrasive or what they might term "disrespectful" of the opportunity.

They also mentioned the medical would be held IN ADVANCE of the interview and could be done in L.A. or New York (London and Paris as well).

Also said the interview would be held in South Korea? That one was news on me as well, as was their requirement for me to obtain and pay for air travel to/from the medical and interview and I would be reimbursed, although they were not specific on the reimbursement schedule.

Does anyone have any RECENT experience they can share? Most of the threads on here are at least half a year old or older. Rostering, whether you fly mostly with American / expat crews or mix with Japanese nationals, schedules, hotels, overnights location and duration, etc would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance!

[Webslinger]

Pm me and I'll give the rundown. By the way AJV (JP Express)is the CARGO side and AJX (Air Japan) is the pax side. Also, unless you are previously typed in a Boeing aircraft dont expect a CA slot being offered, even if you pass the sim ride with ease. There are only 2 previous RJ CA that were offered a CA position. They will tell you that you are interviewing for a CA position and after you are successful they will offer you a FO position and say that you dont have enought "heavy" time or Pacific crossings to be "cut loose". Still a good company and a decent contract, just be aware that all is not what it seems......good luck.

[Lear70]

Thanks for the correction - I thought the X was the cargo side. :}

I wouldn't accept anything but a command position since I have previous Boeing command experience. If they offered the F/O slot, I'd politely defer and come home.

I'll PM you for the details, thanks!

[NZLeardriver]

So the only difference is that one is cargo? The pay differs by quite a bit so I thought there would be more too it. Would the time to command be the same?

[The Dominican]

So the only difference is that one is cargo? The pay differs by quite a bit so I thought there would be more too it. Would the time to command be the same?


There are some differences of course. The pay is better at AJV (cargo) due to the route structure, odd hours and LOTS of dead heads. But overall the cargo side is not too bad really, there is a lot of sitting around doing nothing and guys are flying about 25 to 45 hour months right now, but it is supposed to increase in the next few months as the operation gets ramped up.
On the pax side,(AJX) we are doing four destinations right now. Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Honolulu and Dalian. Singapore starting in November

In both contracts they specify that you will complete your contract on the position offered and then you may be offered a command position for your second contract. In some cases, folks that where in AJX transferred to AJV with an upgrade shy of completing their contract with AJX but, there is no guarantee that this will be offered.
The cargo expansion seems to be tied to Boeing's capacity to produce cargo 767s because they are also receiving pax 767s and orders for the 787 is overwhelming their production capacity right now. This is besides the cargo conversion of the 744s that are being ordered like hot cakes.

[Fuji San]

The contract is good but with one major problem, the commute.

Having my time over again I would of thought longer before accepting a contract which expects its crew to pax Sub Load in Y class. It doesnt sound difficult until you are sardined in economy every 18 days for 15 hours, its a horrible experience.

Guys have had trouble before due to airlines canceling flights and had their pay reduced compensate for not being back on time.

There are more and more Asian contracts that address this problem so look around before signing the dotted line.

Just my thoughts :suspect:

[NZLeardriver]

If I was wanting to live in Japan and not commute (I have residency) which would be better, AJX or AJV?

[Ganbare]

When AJX/AJV hires Captains off the street do they give consideration for the FOs that are next in line for upgrade. I realize the contract work for the Japanese doesn't have seniority in the equation but do the Japanese at least give a by-your-leave when not upgrading an FO?

Thanks

[Jobear]

Any word on how the meeting came out for the commuting,Zed or Y vs B class assigned seats? Opt in or out clause? and the biggee pay adjustment for the devaluation of the $$USD?

[ishi59]

Spies at the meeting advise of some good news to come about the commuting deal. Best to wait for the official news, then there can be no misunderstanding.:D
No response from the company about the US$ situation.:ugh:
The co-pilot upgrade programme is expected to continue from April '08, figure of 6 per year was mentioned.
:D
It would appear that things may be happening but the feeling around is that this is only the beginning. More is required to get it back to where it once was. We live in hope!!:E

[Lear70]

Ishi, you make me a very happy person... :)

Fingers crossed!

[Jobear]

Maybe they can next address the JCAB and screaming/grabby instructors. Several pilots in the training pipeline are looking for other employment. Since I started training there have been 8 people either quit or be fired, this is in only 2.5 months. Not good numbers at all and admittedly not all from AJX/V, 2 that started when I did for other ANA airlines.
Should have listened to ishi59 while I was still looking...

[Lear70]

Ummm... care to elaborate?

Sounds like something that would be good to know BEFORE I jump into the deep end. :eek:

[Capt. John Doe]

Sounds like people are not flexible enough to adjust to a new, different environment/culture. I think it's only in the States where if you screw up, the instructors pat you on the back and say, "that's okay, you can do better next time..."

So my question is, why are so many people failing out? I was told the interview weeds out all the applicants who weren't either proficient in their flying skills or people who the interviewers thought did not have the flexibility to readjust to a new cultural environment. What do you mean they grab and yell at you? Are you sure? I know they hit you with a stick then yell at you in that part of the world....:eek:

For the guys over there currently, is it worth it over there, with only 10 days off, on the other side of the world - given the current job markets out there in the States or elsewhere?

Anyways, good luck out there.

[Lear70]

I don't mind a stern tongue-lashing for failure to perform something in the sim that I should be able to do. I'm my own worst critic sometimes and I absolutely DETEST when I miss something (like missing a step in the FMS programming) then totally pooch-screw the approach because of it, and would expect to be chastised for it. I've worked at 2 carriers now where there was no "warm fuzzy" from the instructor - you either cut it or you got chewed out.

I will not, however, put up with someone touching me. You hit or smack me and I'm going to beat the holy hell out of you. Period. Kicking my chair is about as bad as it's ever gotten in the sim and I turned around and calmly told him we'd be stepping outside if he didn't learn how to be a professional. :ouch:

There's limits to acceptable behavior. Heck, you can even raise your voice or yell at me (without resorting to insults or profanity), and I'll take it because I screwed up. However, physical violence in ANY form is simply unacceptable in the professional aviation world, and I'd like to know if that's the kind of behavior I could expect from their training department (although I somewhat doubt it).

You can go throw a tantrum with someone else... :=

[ishi59]

Sorry guys, but I have yet to come across any physical abuse from a Japanese instructor. The verbal abuse has been minimal, remember Japanese males speak very forcibly because that's the culutre, so what would appear to be a stern tone may well be just a very determined input. Remember, as the pilots online say, it's their train set!!:rolleyes:

Yes, there is a higher attrition rate latelt, but that appears to be, no insult to anyone, because the package being offered is being ignored by the better experienced pilots who prefer to work elsewhere.

[Lear70]

Thanks again, Ishi, that sounds more like what I have heard from others in the program there.

Appreciate the clarification. :ok:

[The Dominican]

My personnal experience has been like Ishi described. I had Japanese instructors in the SIM and have being flying with Japanese line instructors and I have to say that they have been very professional. Are they demanding and pretty inflexible about procedures and company callouts and the likes? The answer to that is without a doubt, YES! but from there to grabby?:rolleyes: Don't know about that? remember that the stories you hear from these training events are always the tip of the iceberg. What is under the waterline, you never hear about:hmm:

[oldhasbeen]

"Capt" Lear 70... I'll be as diplomatic as i can.......we don't want the likes of you here. There are a lot of very qualified FO's waiting for upgrades at AJV and AJX who are sitting in RHS, only because they applied at a stage where they weren't offering DEC's. It sounds to me like you have an attitude that would not be appreciated by most , if not all , expats ( Capts and F/Os ) here, so I would suggest not wasting your time. Y'all have a nice day:mad:

[Lear70]

"Capt" Lear 70... I'll be as diplomatic as i can.......we don't want the likes of you here. There are a lot of very qualified FO's waiting for upgrades at AJV and AJX who are sitting in RHS, only because they applied at a stage where they weren't offering DEC's. It sounds to me like you have an attitude that would not be appreciated by most , if not all , expats ( Capts and F/Os ) here, so I would suggest not wasting your time. Y'all have a nice day :mad:
Why? Because I wouldn't allow someone to physically abuse me?

You, sir, are more than welcome to your opinion,,, However, there's about 4 other DECA's and one FO there who I've flown with before (or know from other places) who are looking forward to flying with me, and vice-versa, so...

Thanks for your input,,, :rolleyes:

[The Dominican]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[meguro]

I am with Ishi, I have only had normal experiences with the ANA instructional staff, in fact I think that they have put in more effort than a western counter part.
We currently do long tours through north America, so the team has to be reasonably friendly to each other.
It does seem that there is a high failure rate right now, a whole course of AJX was wiped out a week or two ago. Hang in there Lear and remember the ANA insructor is busting his gut to get you through, a loss of a candidate is also a loss of face for an ANA instructor.

[oldhasbeen]

One question for yu Lear.... why wouldn't you accept an FO slot for a couple of years to gain a command? You may just get the respect you so richly deserve. Don't want to get into a slanging match with you but there are more than 4 DEC and 1 FO here. :ugh:

[Lear70]

Thanks, Meguro, I hear it's a very learning-intensive course and I know I'll have my work cut out for me. I appreciate your view on the instructors; nice to know that they aren't trying to fail anyone, but simply demanding very high standards, although it's distressing to hear of the recent failures.

Was there a specific reason that so many failed?

OldHasBeen, I wasn't implying that I would not care if I didn't get along with others than I know, I was simply stating that, as a matter of logic, if I get along with several people already there, it goes to follow that I just *might* get along just fine with others as well...?

I'm sorry you took my earlier comments out of context, but I feel pretty strongly about a certain level of professionalism required for this job and, if it's not present, in either student or instructor, then that person doesn't need to be there and I'm too old to put up with physical assault as a training method.

As for why I wouldn't be an F/O... why should I if they're going to hire DECA's *ANYWAY*...?

The demand for Captains with the delivery schedule these carriers have for the next decade simply cannot be met by internal pilots alone, so SOMEONE is going to have to staff them. Why then, should a pilot, who is qualified for a DECA slot, take an F/O slot when the next pilot in the interview is going to take one of the CA slots anyway and the company will continue to interview and hire DECA's?

I have been a DECA at 2 other companies, both of which are in the U.S. and are STILL looking for DECA 5 - 7 years later. There are DECA slots available at half a dozen carriers in Asia alone. What makes AJX/AJV unique is its lack of requirement for the applicant to be typed for DECA slots and its renumeration package which, arguably, could be higher, but for gaining initial heavy time, it's still better than pay in the U.S., and is a nice base for the beginnings of an international career.

DECA opportunities are here to stay in this industry, and one would be a fool not to take one simply because it might "rub another pilot the wrong way". No personal injury to other pilots is intended, just a course of life.

Regards,

[meguro]

Lear guy,
The failure rate cannot be simply explained by one single reason in the courses. The decision to cut a pilot is made after carefull consideration and is not one bad Sim. There have been pilots fail the JCAB check and be kept on and retrained as well as guys that won the free trip home, it's often about the attitude of the candidate. At the end of the day if the ANA instructors don't think that you will pass the JCAB check, you will be cut and that's it.
I do tend to support the FOs' here to be upgraded as opposed to DECs' but as you point out there is a demand. In my experience with ANA the DEC window is not open for very long. It was available at the initial set up and now after the division of AJX/AJV and the rapid demand for expansion. It is great to get experienced guys, but ANA are finding it difficult to get well qualified DECs' although we have a lot of very experienced FOs' and it is a bit of rub for them to have to hold the hand of an inexperienced guy especially for this type of flying.

Finally, as I understand it the demand for pilots is mostly in AJX right now, the passenger side.

Gambate ne

[Lear70]

Meguro, thanks for the reply.

I can certainly understand the aggravation of the F/O's who want to upgrade but may not otherwise meet the time requirements.

At Pinnacle several years ago, we had the same thing. Many F/O's who were only 500 or so hours short of the "required" time, yet the company kept hiring DECA's rather than giving the F/O the opportunity to attempt the upgrade. Whether it was for insurance or other reasons, we never knew.

It's always better to upgrade from within, whenever possible, but I'm grateful for the opportunity to interview and, if successful, to get in at the beginning of what I believe will be a long-term expansion in demand for experienced crews worldwide leading to better terms for all of us.

Thanks again, and I look forward to seeing all of you on the line! :ok:

p.s. I prefer AJX, so that's not a problem. :}

[crj705]

I think the reason for the unhappiness here is that the FOs do meet the time requirements. In fact, there are some FOs here that have over 15,000 hours with significant 767 time who are sitting right seat to guys with a lot less time. Just an observation.

[Lear70]

Really? That's very strange... Why do you think that is?

I could certainly understand the frustration under those circumstances... :ugh:

[crj705]

Dont ever ask why..... It is just the way it is. It is a good opportunity, but due to the circumstances, there are going to be guys that are not happy about it.

[Absolutely]

Lear 70,
The reasons is "timing".
There was a period where AJX/AJV stopped hiring Direct Captains about 2 years ago. So some guys who well and truly qualified to be DEC's under todays hiring criteria and the initial criteria were only offered FO positons. Unfortunately for them, and it must really hurt, 6 months or so after they signed as FO's the companies started hiring Capts again because they can't get enough FO's wanting to come here under the current conditions.
The question was aked if they could now become Captains as they meet all the criteria. The stern reply is always "NO". Far too many Capts in this outfit and not enough FO's. Timing!!

[Lear70]

Thanks for the responses; that's truly unfortunate and I don't blame the F/O's for being upset under those circumstances. :ouch:

[VONKLUFFEN]

...How is the structure of the JCAB course and why is that after reading some comments here the whole thing sounds scary and stressful? Besides that one has to study of course for 6 months for it... that is always ugly anywhere in the world!