Recommendations sought - NAS box

[CBLong]

Hi all,

I want to buy a NAS box for use on my home network - probably a 1Tb type with two disks, mirrored for security, etc. One question which most of the manufacturers' websites don't answer is this: will all NAS boxes serve files to a Linux box without any special drivers/software being needed? I use a fairly old RedHat distro (Guinness) which I'd rather not have to upgrade - I would have thought that I could mount any NAS box via NFS, straight off, but the websites don't confirm this. In fact, most of the websites give "Windows XP or later" as a system requirement! But I realise that's probably just referring to the special Windows configuration software etc.

What I want is a NAS box that I can simply plug into my network, manage via a web interface, and connect to from a Windows 98 laptop / Windows XP desktop / Linux desktop / any other devices I buy in the future. Any recommendations?

Thanks for any advice,

Chris.

[Mac the Knife]

Off-the-shelf dedicated NAS boxen tend to be rather expensive and rather inflexible. I'd suggest FreeNAS installed on any suitable box that you have hanging around or can pick up cheap.

FreeNAS is a dedicated BSD-based OS subset, designed to work as a NAS server and nothing else. Consequently the OS is very small and fast.

"FreeNAS is a free NAS (Network-Attached Storage) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network-attached_storage) server, supporting: CIFS (samba), FTP, NFS, AFP, RSYNC, iSCSI protocols, S.M.A.R.T., local user authentication, Software RAID (0,1,5) with a Full WEB configuration interface. FreeNAS takes less than 32MB once installed on Compact Flash, hard drive or USB key. The minimal FreeBSD distribution, Web interface, PHP scripts and documentation are based on M0n0wall (http://www.m0n0.ch/wall/)."

Check it out at http://www.freenas.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=22

I've been using FreeNAS for the past year on my home network (Mac, Ubuntu, SuSE and XP) and it just keeps on going. You can use NFS if you like (you'll have to install Windows Services for Unix on the Windows boxen), but in general Samba (SMB/CIFS) is easier to administer and arguably more secure.

Depending on you needs, you could either resurrect an old P3 or buy a new barebones box with whatever specs you need - doesn't need to be a top flier for a home LAN. Mine's a headless Athlon XP with three 120GB drives, HD0 is the primary drive and the only one visible over the network and rsyncs to HD1 weekly. Similarly, HD rsyncs to HD2 monthly, so I have a grandfather/father/son hierarchy (I think RAID is pretty useless here, but I'm sure other people would disagree).

Stick it in the garage with a chunky UPS and forget it.

:ok:

Mac

[Saab Dastard]

resurrect an old P3

Problem with that Mac, is the IDE disk size limitations on older systems. I have P3 systems that won't recognise disks larger than 80GB.

Not much use for setting up a TB NAS!

Unless of course you are plugging in SCSI drives, in which case you can go much larger.

SD

[Bushfiva]

will all NAS boxes serve files to a Linux box without any special drivers/software being needed?

Yes. Most boxes are running Linux anyway.

I would have recommended Buffalo until my unit had a fit (see elsewhere). Upside: you can supposedly hotswap a failed drive. Downside: actually you probably can't.

In the office, we have cheap Synology boxes: two RAID 5, one JBOD. The RAID 5's back up the network, then they back up to the larger JBOD. It's software-based RAID so not particularly fast. You can buy them in a range of capacities. In some markets they are also sold without drives. Some versions include media servers, and autonomous bittorrent clients. Downside: need disassembly to replace a failed drive.

Two miserable incidents with the Buffalo have changed me from "software RAID5 is good enough on my home network" to "Hardware RAID 1 or maybe RAID 10 is where it's at", but in reality I guess most consumer RAID boxes will fit your needs.

[Mac the Knife]

Saab - I'm not actually suggesting that you should use a P3 as a foundation for a terabyte NAS!

With such a slow bus performance would not be the best - but with one 3-4 intermittent clients as in a small home network, probably quite acceptable (I did a P1 which was unusably slow). Not sure how it would do for streaming video though...

Booting off a USB key (assuming the bios would let you) would give you 4x80gb which could be used as One Big Drive of 320GB which would be enough for most homes.

Actually, as for BIOS limits if you boot from flash, *BSD doesn't use BIOS calls so it doesn't care, so just don't configure the HDD in the BIOS.

Here's one satisfied user..

"I set up a 1.2TB raid 5 server, using a old P4 1.7Ghz, 256MB. I didn't like the the soft-raid, so I picked up a Highpoint RocketRaid 454 ATA host adapter. Made the array with the Highpoint, booted FreeNas from the Cd and recognized the adapter and the Raid array. After it mounted and formatted the array, it's been working without any problems for just about a month..."

My point is really that it works & works well and that if your needs are relatively modest it needn't cost you a dime. And if you're more ambitious, it's very possible to build a very fast and flexible high-end NAS server for less than a dedicated blackbox.

:ok:

[Saab Dastard]

Mac,

Thanks for the clarification - I still think that SCSI would be viable, though, escpecially as more I/O is offloaded to the dedicated card.

Actually, as for BIOS limits if you boot from flash, *BSD doesn't use BIOS calls so it doesn't care, so just don't configure the HDD in the BIOS.


That's interesting - I didn't realise that. Does that mean that BSD communicates directly over the IDE interface to the disk, even if the disk is not recognised and / or installed in the BIOS? I.E. set to "none"? Providing that you boot from other than the HD. Presumably you can boot off USB if the PC supports it? Potentially another problem with P3, though.

Agree with P4 - much more capable mobos & chipsets.

SD

[CBLong]

Thanks for all the advice. I do actually have an old Win98 desktop that I could 'refactor' into a FreeNAS box, so I'll give that some thought. I have to say though, I'm quite swayed by the sheer shinyness of some of these specialised NAS boxes, and given that it will have to share space in my 7' x 4' "home office" I want something small and quiet. I wonder - the old box's BIOS probably requires a keyboard before it'll boot up, for example... a dedicated box would avoid that.

Cheers for now,

C.

[Mac the Knife]

Saab - BSD (or *NIX generally) needs the BIOS to recognise the boot disk so that the kernel can get up and running. After that it doesn't use the BIOS for disk access and figures things out for itself by talking to the controller.

Set other disks to "None" in the BIOS if the BIOS can't handle 'em and the OS will do the rest.

[bladewashout]

I use a Terastation Pro 1Gb model using RAID 5.

It's gigabit enabled, but can't really process more than about 700Mb/Sec read, less for write, which is a bit of a pain for large backups.

It's in the garage through wired ethernet Cat 5, without a UPS (but one's pending!). No problems to report. It also has an old USB drive hung off the back on to which I can automatically back up some of the stuff.

BW

[Mac the Knife]

The problem with RAID is that most data loss doesn't come from drive failures, but from either malware or finger trouble in meatspace.

Not much use having 4 ex-copies of your irretrievably deleted file on you RAID array....

RAID has it's uses for a server, but is not a substitute for secure backups in a SOHO setup. I'll stick to offsite backups and onsite regular mirror backups in grandfather/father/son style.

:E

[The late XV105]

An interesting thread to bump in to as I was having a discussion on exactly this subject only yesterday evening; I currently have about 400Gb (and growing) of audio visual media and can't find a usable, reliable, cost effective offsite (broadband upload) backup service that I'm prepared to invest in.

My idea is therefore to place a 1TB NAS in the home garage roof space (normal apex style) where it is unlikely to be a theft target and unlikely to be destroyed if the house burns down (it's a separate building). Connection would be "ethernet adaptor in to mains cable in to ethernet adaptor" (I haven't checked the proper term to use) from my hub, since the garage is outside the range of wireless connection.

My techie friend agreed that this will work, and allayed my fears about winter temperatures and humidy if I place the NAS in a box with no floor (just a support rack) to allow heat to build up and then the excess to spill out from the bottom. Summer heat shouldn't be an issue.

He also pointed me in the direction of making my own Linux NAS, having successfully done so himself (including the ability to quietly get on and do some BitTorrent downloading without needing a PC to be running, though I don't need this feature)

[Saab Dastard]

Hmmm...

A nice warm device in the roof space of your garage - if I were you I would take great care to ensure that it does not become a haven for vermin and / or insects. A fine metal mesh should allow adequate ventilation while excluding all but the smallest bugs.

SD

[The late XV105]

Indeed so, ta.

I didn't go in to detail about how I will build the box other than to say the bottom will be open, but yes, a suitable very fine low denier mesh over the opening is part of it, as are silvered inner and outer surfaces, tightly grommeted cable entry points, and a well sealed lid (allowing access without disturbing the mounting or the mesh on the bottom face opening).

This is my starting point, and I'll deal with any challenges as they arrive; that's part of the fun as well as serving a practical purpose.

[Saab Dastard]

And run the cables in steel conduit to prevent them getting chewed through!

I had squirrels chew through live electric (lighting) cables in the loft of a previous house (rented) - plunged the flat into darkness and roasted the squirrel!

Sorry, don't mean to teach grandma to suck eggs...

SD

[rasobey]

To counter the limiation of HDD sizes with older BIOSes, simply purchase a PCI E-IDE / SATA card. This will be very modern and should allow you to use any size of drive. YMMV though, and best check with the vendor to make sure.

[Saab Dastard]

rasobey,

You may well be right - being old, I tend to think of SCSI as the natural alternative to IDE!

SD

[CBLong]

Ok, so... I bought a TS-109 from QNAP (http://www.qnap.co.uk) with a pre-installed 500Gb Seagate disk. It's lovely and shiny and all works well.

Unfortunately the backup software supplied with it "sucks wiener" as they say in America. It just does a bulk copy to a NAS share and doesn't even have the option to only copy modified files, much less anything more sophisticated. Over the weekend, I tried to install a couple of backup packages that I found via Google, but got nowhere with either of them (one needed > 600Mb free on my system disk - WTF??? - and the other (from 2BrightSparks (http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/syncback-hub.html)) appeared to install correctly but refused to run, giving an 'incorrect configuration' error).

Any recommendations for free / US$50-ish Windows XP backup software that will write to a NAS box, allow scheduled incremental / differential backups, etc etc?

Thanks!

[Mac the Knife]

If you NAS box is running a *NIX variant (which it probably is) and can run an rsync daemon then you can use rsync.

DeltaCopy is a nice GUI wrapper for a Windows version of rsync - GPL and free.

Get it at http://www.aboutmyip.com/AboutMyXApp/DeltaCopy.jsp

:ok: