EZY TRSS here to stay?

[Toastal]

Hi Guys/Gals,

Before you shoot me down in flames, i've tried PM'ing folk regarding the above issue, but no one has been able to give me a concrete answer, so i'll go live!!

The Q is chaps/chapesses; Is there any chance/likelyhood of EZY scrapping the 23K TRSS for pilots with 1500 hrsTT/500hrs MCC turbro prop in the near future, or is this set to continue for the forseeable?

One would hate to have to spend the doe unless it was the only way forward, over the next couple of years anyway!! However, serious respect to all those who have (friends incl), things made of steel springs to mind!!

Please feel free to PM

Regards, T:suspect:

[5150]

I'd seriously doubt they'd ever get rid of it now.

Not while there's plenty of takers. . . :rolleyes:

[unablereqnavperf]

As long as there are suckers that will pay this cancer will continue!
Although easy are probably the least cash grabbing of the loco's. I'm afraid this is a syptom of our high speed sociaty today pilots won't wait'and are not prepared to put in the footwork required to get the right job!

[Superpilot]

And Easyjet pilots allow THIS to happen? :ugh:

[Kraut]

Well, SUPERPILOT,

how shall the EZY pilot communitiy hinder that to happen? What can we do more as warning about it!?
I am sorry, but everybody signig contracts like this one, knows what he is doing (I hope!) and got to live with the consequences!

[Superpilot]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3602802&posted=1#post3602802

[PAPI-74]

With 100's of hours of TP's, why should I be branded in the same cat. as a low houred bod and pay for the TRSS (according to the world of EasyJet).
It is all BO:mad::mad::mad:X and should go back to the way it was. Earn it...don't pay for it you chumps!!!!!
10 - 15 years ago, they would pay for everything and take on TP guys with open arms. Not now thanks to that PIKIE and the Idiots that were foolish enough to encourage him. Now, the youngsters coming through expect to pay for a TR and Hotels, Food etc....wake up!!!:8:8

[Kraut]

I would love to fight for this cause,

Quoting your thread, SUPERPILOT, I just smile!
Fight? Sounds good! How? That is another question! Do you believe pilots in a company would go on strike for the guys joining for TRSS!?
Wake up! Or show me the way HOW you would fight, if you were already in a company flying as a first officer for example!

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Just to wind you up a little more PAPI-74, it is actually possible to join as a low hour guy fresh out of flight school with easyJet paying for the typerating :} Trade off is you only get paid an allowance of 1,000 pounds pr. month for six months and after that you are put on "direct entry" salary. It requires jumping through hoops at CTC, though, and paying 4,500 pounds for a course which is basically a typerating without motion and circuits. Still beats the TRSS route though. The company pays for the hotel and food during the TR.

This probably makes you make even more angry smileys :E

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Yeah Kraut is right. You won't find ezy pilots fighting for the abolition of TRSS. There weren't enough of us prepared to strike to improve our own terms and conditions, let alone the terms and conditions of those yet to join. With local contracts the next divide and conquer tactic from our fabulously well rewarded management :mad: from now on we are likely to see an even weaker resolve within our own ranks to preserve our T&Cs.

There is a backlog of flightdeck applications at the moment, and the company are trying to offload pilots for the winter through such initiatives as unpaid leave and the famous "lifestyle enhancement opportunity" in India. Hence the reason that despite record profits and record management bonuses we recently got offered what is essentially a wage freeze. The company can replace us with guys willing to work for far less, and they know it.

So TRSS is here to stay, for the time being at least.

[PAPI-74]

Really Annoyed,

The CTC deal is quite good if you can be ar#ed to, as you say, jump through hoops for a 2% chance of getting through. Who are they looking for for christ sake. I know a few guys who have got through, some are nice guys, a few are to###rs. OK if you have the cash to front the scheme in the first place. I sold my business to keep three kids during my training. Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone a chance, but I waited 12 years for the market to get to a secure level where I felt I could risk it.
I have still got good friends who are instructing, really good blokes who get on with everyone, who may never get a lucky break. Why choose a, no disrespect mind you, SAUSAGE produced by CTC, over a guy in his 30's who has been a professional in the real world and who is able to bring a variety of interpersonal skills to the table.
I meet nut-jobs every week, who think that they can throw money at a situation and expect to get through. They will buy their way, cheat, lie, etc..their way through life. Thankfully, most get left behind at ground school or fail a flight test and go off with their tail between their legs.

Three rules of Airline flying:
1/ Turn up on time
2/ Don't have a hangover or personal issues past the crew room
3/ Never lie
3b/ Never get angry, you can't think

I have met people who lie about their lack of knowledge to not loose face. Most of them have been on Intergrated Courses and due to peer pressure, will never admit to not knowing something. This will lead to serious problems on line.
Anyway, I have waffled on in a different direction for long enough, but you may see sence in my bo##ox....
What I am getting at in short is in my opinion, the TRSS breeds a different type of pilot. If you are made to feel like a second class subject, and raped of your money, can you really hold your head up and stop a Capt from busting a level or worse. I know some are s##t scared to say anything to their TRI/TRE, because they might get their line training extended and they are skint......:yuk:

[ICING AOA]

TRSS will stay for ever, Direct Entries for non-type rated guys will eventually go :E

[Kraut]

know some are s##t scared to say anything to their TRI/TRE, because they might get their line training extended and they are skint......I

Don´t know on the BOEING fleet, but defintly not true to TRE/TRI I know (AIRBUS fleet). However do not know all!

Airline pilot life is not the dream job a lot of people believe! In fact, I have the impression at this time things are not improving really!

[ReallyAnnoyed]

PAPI-74

Many airlines seem to like the "sausage" product of CTC as you call it. Personally, I think this is the way to make pilots as opposed to the way it is in many other places where any moron with enough money can get a licence. But that is just an opinion which will bring out many furious guys, but that is the charm of pprune :}

Just to clarify a few facts about CTC: There are (or at least were) two routes through the hoops. I have heard the numbers of 2-3% as you quote for the ab initio route. However, for the ATP scheme where you apply with a frozen ATPL the success rate is 10-15% which is still low, but 5 times higher than the other way.

You seem to imply that integrated students lie more than modular students and try to cover up inadequate knowledge. Can't say that I agree with that :)

[ICING AOA]

Many airlines seem to like the "sausage" product of CTC as you call it. Personally, I think this is the way to make pilots as opposed to the way it is in many other places where any moron with enough money can get a licence.


CTC is one of the most expensive flightschool for people without any licence ;)

[londonmet]

IcingAOA.

Urrm no it's not. Check facts. CTC provide Type rating, HOTAC, etc etc. So for £80 k inc interest over 7 years for a newbe then it's a damn sight cheaper than the other schools that dont SPONSOR you (as CTC does) and with those you may still have to stump up the cash to pay for a TR. Of course other routes are cheaper, but dont offer anything in concrete. CTC only get paid the cash when a pilot is placed in employment not before. CTC is the only form of sponsorship that I know about...

L Met

:ok:

[flyboy1818]

The TRSS principal works on the simple law of supply and demand. During the preceding years since 9/11 the demand for Airline jobs has been significantly higher than the supply. This has been produced by an industry still recovering from recession which until recently (around 2004) had many experienced type rated pilots sitting around unemployed. To add further to the drama interest rates have been very very low and house price inflation has been very very very high, thus resulting in the price of flight training reducing in real terms, along with cheap credit making training more accessible than ever to the young skint dreamer with no cash to splash. The above in addition to strict cost cutting measures and an ever increasingly competitive market has result in the birth of the TRSS. The Airlines know you’re desperate for a "job" and also know that you can afford to pay, resulting in the Birth of TRSS.

I have seen similar attempts to charge for training within this industry from everything and everybody that could try it on. This includes baggage handling training. My answer is always simple :mad: OFF!

Those two words could change it all for you guys, no demand = supply requirement = TRSS abolished. I don't believe that any group of Pilots or any Pilots Union for that matter will be successful in abolishing TRSS. An economical situation that prevents cheap credit and high positive equity and price inflation in peoples main assets namely property will however reduce the number of people willing to pay for TRSS, thus creating an environment where TRSS has to be abolished in order to recruit Pilots so that the said Airline may continue to expand. With house price inflation reducing and the cost of borrowing increasing in conjunction with orders for Boeing and Airbus aircraft that bring factories close to capacity the day that TRSS finds its resting place in the History books is getting closer. How close: 1-2 years

[Right Way Up]

Pier 74,
A few observations on your post.
1. The first law of working in aviation is that nobody owes you anything. You can take the moral high ground (& I agree with you against TRSS), but you will be bypassed by thousands of others. Also quite a few TRSS guys now have their command. They only joined 3 years ago - quite an investment I would think.
2. CTC might be a sausage factory but it is a damn fine one. The reason only a few get through is that the screening is excellent. Every CTC cadet I have line-trained have been very good for their experience level and will be fine Captains when the time comes. Also a lot of them have done things in the real-world and have a high level of common-sense which quickly with experience turns into airmanship.
3. I agree with Kraut over the TRI/TRE comment.
More importantly for your self if you want to progress in your career you MUST leave the "anger" behind. You have to decide the best course for you and be positive. Any negativity will be obvious to a good interviewer.
Good luck!

[PAPI-74]

I am actually quite a clam chap, having an instructing background, it is the only way to stay alive. I just enjoy venting on here.
Quite right...nobody owes me anything. I am just so annoyed that the TRSS is the norm, even with tiny entry level operators flying ATR's. Who in their right mind would pay 15k to earn 18k after the outlay prior to get the FATPL?
But they (the operators) are almost all doing it and the ones that aren't are paying peanuts because of the queue to get in.
I was lucky and get a below averge deal, bonded for 3 yrs, but I can live on it....only if I instruct on the side.
As I said before, I never begruge anyone an opportunity, and I never have, but my original point still stands.....
I have nearly 1000hrs and 500 on type. Why should I still go onto a TRSS with that experience, with guys on 200hrs mostly SEP?
Sucks!!!!!!!

[Finals19]

Agreed with PAPI-74, its a raw deal for someone with experience to have to foot the bill for a big SSTR payment when they should be able to naturally progress up to that stage, having worked and earned the potential privilege of flying a larger machine. Its not unsurprising that he feels slightly grieved by the thought of having to pay for an SSTR while sitting next to the 200hr guy just out of school (there is no substitute for experience I am afraid, and I am not being dis-respectful to the 200hrs guys either - we have all been there too)

The kicker about the EZY TRSS deal is (if I recall correctly) that once throught the scheme, and the 23K shelled out, you are fixed on the TRSS initial salary of £31K for the first 5 years. Now that, IMO, is almost as much of a sting in the tail as the 23K itself...

[FunFlyin]

And there was me thinking to apply for the TRSS scheme you still needed 500 hours multi crew

200 sep - woohoo:hmm:

[5150]

you are fixed on the TRSS initial salary of £31K for the first 5 years

That's for an FO, you'll jump up to SFO TRSS salary once you've got your ATPL - around 40K basic.

Either way, it still sucks that you'll still be paying for your type rating over a 5 year period.

[FatFlyer]

PAPI, just to be sure, the TRSS scheme is for people like myself ( and you) with t/prop or smaller jet experience.
The 200 hour fATPL pilots become CTC cadets which is a different system and pay structure completely.
I would, of course, rather have been bonded and be on full pay for the first 5 years but had to decide for myself what suited me better, that or staying with the previous job.

[PAPI-74]

Yes I was being a bit general.
They get a better deal cos it only costs them 7K....which they get back at £1000 per month....WTK:mad:
Easy are good...but not that good. I like LCY anyway at the moment. Great rush in the wind / rain.

Corect me if I am wrong, but I would only get bitter if I made the kids go without again to borrow more to front it....I know you get it back, but then you only get paid 31K. No thanks, I will go elsewhere when I am ready.

Pilots are already paying for the MCC, which was never asked for as a min requirement. We will be paying to get our CV looked at soon and sim check.......DOOOWWW!!! we are if we work for a PIKIE....
Come on Brothers / Sisters give them a moon and say B:mad::mad::mad:OX

[MrBernoulli]

To place this TRSS stuff in another perspective:

When I appled to eJ I had 4378 hours total, including piston, turbo prop and jet. Of jet time there was 3062 hours (2950 on heavy 4-engine jets), including nearly 1300 in command. I passed their selection and sim but all they offered me was TRSS on the Airbus ............... because my jet time was all military with none of the aircraft now on the civilain register. I thought that sucked ................ and went elsewhere.:suspect:

[PAPI-74]

MrB,
Good for you.
Who the Hell do they think they are.
When I get my 500hrs jet time with another company, I may just apply, just to turn it down.
You would think that if the CAA (of all people) would give you a set number of hours (500 if I remember correctly) towards your ATPL, then Ezy would give you the same....
Maybe all they want are YES men / boys.....