Air Transport Management - Open University?

[HS-125]

Hi All,

Are there any Uni's in the UK that are offering the Air Transport Management course as an Open Course (ie; studying at home, rather than uni)?

If not, are there any other courses within the UK that are Open University?

Cheers,

/S :ok:

[Life's a Beech]

Why do you want to do an air transport management degree?

[HS-125]

Just something that I've wanted to do! Why, reccomend something else?

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Why dont you train at oxford to become a pilot? Then you get an airtransport management foundation degree too!:eek: Then you have two skills for the price of one!!! (all be it an expensive price!!):}

[HS-125]

I have a stable job at the moment at a major FBO, and I've not really got the £60k+ needed to pay for it!

That's why I wanted to do an Open Uni course, so I can do it in my own time - and still work!

[Life's a Beech]

Why have you always wanted to do an Air Transport Management degree? That will seriously affect any answer. Is it doing the degree, something you want to study from outside or do you actually expect it to be of any help in getting a job?

[oceancrosser]

City University offers an ATM degree. You show up for 3 days for each course or "module" as they call it and then spend the next 6 weeks doing your homework. Lots of fun and very interesting. www.city.ac.uk/atm if memory serves, but you will find it.
Actually felt sad when I graduated.

[revilo_rehsif]

http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/airtransport-msc.html#overviewTab

Thats the proper link

[Groundloop]

Why dont you train at oxford to become a pilot? Then you get an airtransport management foundation degree too!

And how does that work then?

[HS-125]

Why have you always wanted to do an Air Transport Management degree? That will seriously affect any answer. Is it doing the degree, something you want to study from outside or do you actually expect it to be of any help in getting a job?

As I said, I'm not interested in getting a job - I already have one. It's just something that I'd like to do!

[matt85]

That actually looks quite interesting.

[NavPilot]

HS125
There's ERAU...it's across the pond...but, surely an 'open' university.You get Online degrees Ugrad and grad.
check out this link for ATM
http://www.erau.edu/ec/academicorgs/eccoce/msm.html

ATM is one of the areas of specialization.


cheers:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Dont ask me groundloop! I have just been informed that on completion of your FATPL at oxford you gain a foundation degree in Air Transport Management!

[Groundloop]

Dont ask me groundloop! I have just been informed that on completion of your FATPL at oxford you gain a foundation degree in Air Transport Management!

Who informed you?

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Oat! http://www.oxfordaviation.net/news.htm Its there in black and white! If you give me till about march 2009 i can tell you exactly what i get and how. Just doesnt seem to be much info about it!

[Groundloop]

Thanks for the link.

So a normal Integrated course lasts 60 weeks so for just an extra 7 weeks you get a degree! :\

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks for the link.

So a normal Integrated course lasts 60 weeks so for just an extra 7 weeks you get a degree!

No, you get a foundation degree, which is what universities run now as an alternative entry qualification / vocational qualification for people who have poor, or the wrong A-levels. Typically a foundation degree at a university in the UK would take about 8 months of full time study.

Most of us with real degrees hate the fact that these things are called "degrees" - although without doubt they serve a useful function.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just for those unfamiliar...
(Post A-level or equivalent)

Foundation degree = 1 academic year full time study [fts]

Bachelors degree = 3(+) academic years fts

Master of Engineering = 4(+) academic years fts

Master of Science = Bachelors or Masters degree + 1 calendar year fts

Doctorate = good Bachelors degree, or average Masters degree + 3 years(plus!) fts.

G

[ATR42300]

The City University course is certainly interesting and I too would not mind taking it on, however the price of £8300 is somewhat steep for an MSc.

[Groundloop]

Unfortunately some people will see the word degree and not realise the difference between Foundation and Honours ie a degree is a degree is a degree!!

[HS-125]

Hi All,

Just to clarify - which course would be best for me? Bearing in mind, I'm working a 40 hour week, and need to do a part-time course!

HS-125 :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd look at Embry Riddle.

G

[HS-125]

Genghis,

I take it you have to go to the States to do the degree, it's not a distance learning program?

I need something that I can do alongside my full-time job. Also, I have no previous Uni experience - will this affect my chances of getting on a course?

[Genghis the Engineer]

ERAU do both full time and distance learning programmes.

http://www.erau.edu/ec/index.html

I've not done one myself, but have had a reasonable amount of contact with bits of ERAU; they impress me.

G

[ATR42300]

All things considered I think I would prefer to have accessibility to people and facilities, on this side of the pond. A lot of people are very sceptical about some US degrees and the City University course has been put together in association with the Guild of Air Pilots & Navigators, a highly respected UK body!

Personally, I would go the City University route because the course certainly looks interesting and is confirmed by someone who has been there (post # 7) and that in itself says a lot!

Payinmg in pounds sterling in the UK meansd no worries v exchange rate!

[NavPilot]

I take it you have to go to the States to do the degree, it's not a distance learning program?

I need something that I can do alongside my full-time job. Also, I have no previous Uni experience - will this affect my chances of getting on a course?
You needn't go to the states at all, as Genghis mentioned, they do have distance learning programs...both ugrad and grad.
I do believe they back up their curriculum with an extensive forum of their own for students and instructors to interact. So, that quite makes up for attending classes per-se.
You mention you have no prior Uni exp...?
In that light,
1. Erau do have ugrad progs, but they don't get onto ATM until the grad stage. So you would need a degree, BEFORE going for ATM.
2. The City university program, I noticed from their website, again is an MSC course requiring an ATPL and/or (:confused:) an honours degree.

Not very many ugrad courses on ATM and probably for good reason too.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Worth remembering also that the study skills needed for an MSc are not really those learned on an ATPL course - there are quite good reasons why a first degree is the normal prerequisite.

G

[Groundloop]

Worth remembering also that the study skills needed for an MSc are not really those learned on an ATPL course

Although the 350 students who are doing, or have done, the City course do not seem to have a too much of a problem.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Many of them without first degrees?

For that matter, what's the graduation rate amongst those without?

G

[Groundloop]

Genghis, most do not have first degrees - most are ATPLs, ATCOs, Licenced Engineers, etc.

[Genghis the Engineer]

And the graduation rate?

I'm not being difficult BTW - I've got a couple of degrees, a reasonable selection of pilots licences and a low-level aircraft inspection qualification - none of which were easy to get; I also teach on an Aeronautical MSc course (although not that one).

My experience is however that even people with a Batchelors degree find the study experience of an MSc pretty intense, plus that the level of analysis and quality of writing on (say) an ATPL is far less than that for any degree. So, whilst I'm more than willing to accept that an ATPL holder can gain an MSc without a first degree, I'd be surprised if either they "do not seem to have a too much of a problem" - I'd expect them to be working ******* hard (my degrees were both far more analysis-intensive than, say, my CPL ground exams). I'd also be very surprised by a 100% graduation rate.

The reason why an MSc is a valued qualification is at least partly because it's very hard to obtain!

G

[HS-125]

:ok:Hi All,

Thank you for all of your responses.

Can anyone suggest any courses then (....maybe not Air Transport Manangement) that may be of use to me in the future (....Bearing in mind, I'm 19, have a very stable job and would just like to plan for the future and at this stage, am not interested in becoming a pilot!)

As stated above, I'm looking for a course that I can study for alongside my current job.

Only one that I can really find is ATM?

Again, I really do appreicate all of the help you guy's are giving me.

Regards,

HS-125

[Genghis the Engineer]

HS-125 - what are you doing at the moment, and what are your long term career aspirations?

G

[HS-125]

I work at a Major FBO, I love it - just want to work my way up the chain really!

-HS-125 :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Doing what? And what are your current qualifications? And which ladder?

G

[NavPilot]

I work at a Major FBO, I love it - just want to work my way up the chain really!


You have got to be more specific.
If you're into maintenance, a Ugrad degree from ERAU on Aviation maintenance management might be useful. If you've got licenses to show, you might even get credits towards the program.
If you're working on stuff other than Mx, there are other courses to get you started; whereon you may take certain electives for specialisation.
HS-125, Have you had a look at the ERAU website ? Looking up some of the programs and then getting in touch with them on email to get to know the programs will take you a long way. A start would be identifying asaccurately as possible, WHERE YOU WANT TO GO WITH YOUR CAREER....


I would tend to agree with Genghis that doing an Msc or a masters course without atleast a degree would be difficult. I do not speak from my own experience, but have seen guys struggle after they signed up for masters courses with only 'significant industry experience' to show.

[HS-125]

Hi All,

Sorry for not being specific. At the moment, I'm working out on the ramp - marshalling, towing etc etc.

Where do I want to be where I am at the moment? I'm not sure - I love my job out on the ramp.

I'm going to send an email to ERAU later, see what they suggest.

Regards,

HS

[Groundloop]

And the graduation rate?
Sorry for the delay, Genghis, I needed to ask around for the figures.
City University offers free, and with no commitment at all, for eligible candidates (whether degree holders or licence holders) attendance at one Module of which they must then complete the coursework. After this, the University and the potential student decides whether or not they are likely to be able to complete. About 20% decide at this point, for all sorts of reasons, not to continue.
Once accepted onto the Programme, 92% gain a qualification within the maximum of 5 years though some (about 10%) get a Diploma or Certificate. These figures are the same for first degree and non-first degree holders, pilots, engineers, air traffic controllers, cabin crew, military, CAA or commercial, European or overseas, old or young (though there is requirement for a minimum of two years professional experience, which excludes those straight from first degree). About 14% get Distinctions and 30% get a Merit grade.
Hope this answers your question.

[NavPilot]

HS-125
you mention...am not interested in becoming a pilot!
I got hooked as a kid when I worked the ramp in GA and manned the fire extinguishers when they did engine test runs...it took me time, study ( a lot of it:eek:) and a lot of odd jobs here and there...I liked to believe all the time that I never really 'wanted' to be a pilot...or never thought I'd become one....
just a thought...never say never...you never know;)

Good luck with whatever you choose.