CAP 371 Rest reduction:- Can a Crewing Officer and other Pilots comment please?

[Son Of Piltdown]

Can you chaps from crewing comment on the following:

1. Duty period 12 hours 25 minutes.

2. I say I need 12 hours 25 minutes rest on a nightstop.

3. Crewing say I can go to ten hours in a hotel and then operate.

4. CAP 371 extracts below refers:-

REST PERIODS.

Rest taken at home base must be at least as long as the preceding duty period, with a minimum of 12 hours for flight deck crew.

In the case when the rest period earned by a crew member is 12 hours and suitable accommodation is provided by the company, then that rest period may be reduced by one hour. In such circumstances if the travelling time between the airfield and the accommodation is more than 30 minutes each way then the rest period will be increased by the amount the total time spent travelling exceeds one hour. In both situations the room allocated must be available for a minimum of 10 hours.

This sub paragraph does not apply to rest periods that exceed 12 hours.


AEROPLANE COMMANDERS DISCRETION TO REDUCE A REST PERIOD.

An aeroplane commander may, at his discretion, and after taking note of the circumstances of the other members of the crew reduce a rest period, but only insofar as the room allocated to the crew member must be available for a minimum of 10 hours. The exercise of such discretion will be exceptional and must not be used to reduce successive rest periods. If the preceding FDP was extended the rest period may be reduced by the same amount. I no circumstances can a commander exercise discretion to reduce a rest period below to hours at accommodation.


Who is right and why?

[miss piggy]

Son of - you are totally correct - the exception only applies to duty periods of 12 hrs or less.
Unfortunately CAP 371 because of the way it is written is open to mis interpretation by both sides - it really wants re vamping in a more readable and logical format.
Computerised systems with the rules set up by "experts" with non overridable "hard" legal rules are the only answer to get everyone tuned in to the same frequency.

[JB007]

Have to agree 100% with Miss Piggy on this one.
Feel free to tell Crewing to poke off !!!
(In the nicest possible way of course)

007


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Hear all....see all....say n'owt !

[You splitter]

The paragraph pertaining to Crew Rest is fairly specific on its rules relating to minimum rest and I am in complete agreement with you all.

Except.....

The crewing department are correct in that you do only require 10 hours in the hotel. However this would be by using Commanders discretion to reduce rest, which can be applied to either situation of rest earned.

As such they can not roster you for this subsequent departure, or even ask you to do it. It is after all Commanders discretion and not Crewing Officers discretion!!.

When I did crewing(for my sins) my approach to this subject was, when talking to crews about report time/last landing,simply ask them "does that include discretion?" Subtle or what??




[This message has been edited by You splitter (edited 07 August 2000).]

[OC41]

Slight correction in that it could be your discretion depending on how many gold bars you have. If your on your Jack Jones i think its down to the individual.
You also could not go down to 10 hrs in the hotel as then you would need to add an allowance for travelling time from your horizontal position in bed to the briefing room and vv. So in practice even if you wanted to reduce your rest your looking at 10.30. The Inspecting Officers also pick up cases of reporting then being airbourne 30 mins later, which in effect means you sneaked in early to report!!.

CAP371 is clear as a bell on rest, gets a bit dodgy on split duties with rest earned between 10 and 11 hours but apart from that most straight forward. A lot of the airlines these days are totally reliant on computers so if it says legal dont query it atittude from junior staff who dont know the rules. There is a FDP calculator going around which is used a lot, written by a Monarch Nigel I recall.
OC41 "where's my pencil"