Question about job offer

[LRpilot]

What appen if I'm unable to accept a DEFO job offer ?I'll be put in the waiting pool and what about consequences?
Thanks for any reply or previus same experiences...
Cheers.

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

From past experience, unless you have a very good reason (in their opinion) you can write off coming here later once you knock back a job offer!

[LRpilot]

Thanks,let's see what will happen....
Cheers.

[Sqwak7700]

Negative. Have flown with many guys who defferred the first time. Second time is the one where you will need a very good reason.

But Cathay is having such a hard time finding anyone that they will take you no matter how many times you deffer. They are that short these days...

Deffer away.

[druglord]

know a guy who turned down the offer twice and they still called him once more for a class.

[LRpilot]

Got new offer!
744 London base,starting 17 dec.
See you at HKG,
Cheers!;)

[Millstream]

Freight or Pax?

[LRpilot]

Freight...

[Millstream]

Freight pay and conditions are vastly inferior to DEFO on the passenger fleet which they are still offering. Well at least they were last week!

[a_320busdriver]

Which bases and type is being offered for the DEFO positions?

[Kane Toed]

DEFO Pax positions are available in Sydney and Melbourne on the A330 and from mid-08, New York on the 777.

[Numero Crunchero]

From recent history I suspect that there will no longer be differentiation between freight and (based)pax FOs next year. Those lucky enough to join by Dec 31st this year will be on about 30% more than those joining from Jan 1st - but remember, this isn't a C scale, its a Unified scale.

FYI. 2007 - pax FO Australia gets $118K (+HDP + 15.5%PF). Freighter FO gets about $92K.

2008 pax/freighter FO on UFO scale will get about $92-94K and probably the ability to work till 65 to make up for the income shortfall and extended time to command so there is a silver lining;-/

For the US - I think UFO should be around $72-74K vs current $62-64K for freighter FO and $100K+ for pax FO. So not quite as bad as the Aussie deal.

For Aussie pilots have a good look at QF, Virgin Blue domestic, Jetstar and EK as options. Depends on whether you want career+money or live in HKG eventually!

[Apple Tree Yard]

The unmitigated gall of this airline is breathtaking. With an impending pilot shortage of epic proportions looming, they effectively LOWER the pay scales yet again. Why would any Aussie bother joining CX now?

[missingblade]

Cause there's so many Aussies still applying!!

[poydras]

So NC to recap, u are saying (regarding USA base freighter DEFO)
whoever joins Jan.1st 2008 will get 72K/74K ???

[Blogsey]

NC,
I've been trying to find out about the unified DEFO pay for Aus bases. This was part of COS08 right? Does the fact it didn't get through, affect the unified DEFO pay?
Will we find out before 01 Jan 08 that the DEFO $118K is a thing of the past? ie are there any FACTS out there?
This is certainly going to affect me (providing the 2nd interview goes OK).

[Numero Crunchero]

There are no published payscales for UFO 08. So the following is my best guess based on what appears to be their(CX) thinking. I have taken out the proposed 3/4/3%(respectively) payrises as not sure what they will do.

AUS $89,965 (+15.5% +HDP)
EUR £43,304 (++)
USAB $71,300 (++)

So poydras, joining on pax or freighter my understanding is that you will get the above figure.

Blogsey,
the company doesn't tend to move at all from what its starting position was. Based on that premise, the first 5 years of pay should be (Aus base):
$89,965
$91,759
$93,588
$114,140
$135,472

In the past pilots have done their freighter commitment and then moved to pax fleet and hence got a very large payrise. The intent of the UFO scale was to have low starting salary and then at the 5 year mark, slightly exceed pax scale. Over a 10 year basing as an FO the UFO scale is 5-15% below earnings of the DEFO 07 pilot for Aus, depending on any 'imposed' payrises! Haven't bothered with calculating other bases but I suspect it will be similar.

clear as mud.

[missingblade]

Yeah thanks - pretty clear that everybody loses and greed wins the day - as usual!

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Hmm, you guys must get some good benefits or very generous housing allowance, for that new pay scale is no better than European low cost and you don't need several thousand hours to join. So, I'm getting increasingly puzzled as to what the great attraction of CX is anymore. Anyone care to enlighten me? :)

[poydras]

TX NC.
So on the 5 years mark CX makes money since the UFO scale is lower than the actual pax scale.

[Numero Crunchero]

Poydras, there are 3 scales to consider. Currently there are pax and Freighter scales and the intent is from Jan 08 to only have UFO scales. To explain the politics, very few pax FOs in the states today. Until we get 777ER basings it has been SoP to recruit on freighter pay since that is where vast majority of US based pilots have been needed. From now on the majority of new based recruits will be needed on pax side(777ERs). The current pax salary is around60% higher than freighter pay scale so CX would like to pay a lot less.

So here are CoS2007pay scales:

Pax 07 Frtr 07 UFO 08
$103,440 $63,504 $71,301
$106,800 $69,504 $72,722
$109,920 $75,504 $74,179
$113,160 $81,000 $90,478
$116,040 $87,036 $107,383
$118,920 $90,012 $109,538
$121,680 $95,256 $111,717
$124,320 $100,320 $113,953
$126,840 $101,844 $116,237
$129,240 $103,428 $118,567
$131,640
$133,680
$135,840
$137,760

The 2008 figures have no payrise...CX was suggesting 3/3% for 08/09. You will get 15.5% PF and HDP(approx 3-5%) on top. Once onshoring occurs you will need to consider FICA etc.
There are 10 pay points in the UFO scale....in a 'no sep 11, asian contagion, SARS or major downturn' scenario, command is likely to be 12-13 years.

Rapid commands will only exist while freighter pay is so low. WHilst CX has low freighter pay salary it costs CX a fortune in training and conversion costs and ultimately the salary bill is higher for CX as by the time the 'rapid command' commander acquires equivalent pax command seniority, he will be a SCN 8 or 9 doing the same pax job as a CN1 but earning $20,000 a month more! The money they save on the salary bill today costs them more in future as well as more strain on the training department. But still, there is no money in freight and there is no way B scale command pay for freighter pilots could save them money!

[poydras]

This explains why some go to UPS......intresting