Tiger touches down in Melbourne

[Pedota]

Bring it on . . .

The first Tiger Airways plane has arrived in Melbourne.

The airline will provide domestic flights within Australia from early December, subject to Federal Government approval.

The Singaporean-owned carrier has promised to take on Jetstar, its main rival in the low-cost flight market.

The Victorian Government expects Tiger Airways to boost the economy and grow the tourism sector, creating 1,000 jobs.

[gas-chamber]

There is just the minor impediment of an Oz AOC to be resolved. Theirs is about the worst initial AOC application CASA has seen in a good while, so it is unlikely that they will be coming to a theater near you just yet.

[emu787]

Well "gaschamber" whoever gave you this inside information has committed a crimminal offence...you had better watch out...there are strong Federal Laws protecting information...assuming it is true of course.

or was it deliberate...not the first time CASA has been used as a political weapon to protect the Red Bloated Kangaroo carcass

Anyhow...what a load of crap...Tiger have just carted their 3 millionth passenger in total and complete safety in some of the worst weather you can get anywhere in the world and they already operate to Darwin and Perth...so mate whats the hidden agenda....if they are allowed to operate into and out of Australia they will not have a problem getting another piece of paper...

because mate..thats all it is...just another piece of paper to be filed in Singapore HQ!

Don't forget who owns Tiger Airways...some of the smartest and most successful organisations in the aviation world!

Go Tiger Go and give the Australian public what they want...COMPETITION!

[ScottyDoo]

Don't forget who owns Tiger Airways...

Go Tiger Go and give the Australian public what they want...COMPETITION!

Yeah, go tiger. And take the cash-flow to those fish-heads up north.

Good one, emu. :rolleyes:

[RENURPP]

I hope Tiger do well.

An Australian AOC is a little diffrerent to most.
I suggest if the pilots concerned, and to a large degree it will be pilots and emgineering management doing the ground work for this AOC, have not gone through this beauracratic process before, they will be pulling their hair out.

They will still get there, may just be a few hurdles in place.

[Bula]

yeah... and i wish Austr.... um Singaporean business all the best...... duh! :{

[Mr.Buzzy]

Another case of "deepest pockets"

How much are they willing to lose and how many of those 1000 jobs will be left in tatters this time?

bbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Sunfish]

Gee, I'd love to see Qantas get done over for predatory pricing! Go Tigers!

[gas-chamber]

Emu , no hidden agenda and my info did not come direct from anyone in CASA. Maybe it came from someone in Tiger ? And maybe a friend of a friend ? Think about what you say before you accuse people of criminal activity. And I certainly did not suggest that Tiger would be unsafe. But CASA is all about pretty manuals with ass-covering statements on every page. Operationally, CASA wouldn't know unsafe unless it bit them on the bum. What competencies do their FOI's have these days and how long will it take them to assess an application of the magnitude of Tiger ? I did not say Tiger would not get an AOC. Just not quite yet. Of course they will get an AOC when they get the right people who know how to deal with CASA, and when CASA gather the wherewithall to assess it.
Virgin also got off to a very poor start with theirs and had to change a lot of stuff and look how long it took them to get ETOPS. Sure, it's just paper and I absolutely agree with anyone who reckons CASA are difficult unless you are a big name airline. The red rat probably wrote its own AOC, but that was another time in history.

[The Kavorka]

Gas-chamber

I heard the same thing..could still be a long way off....

[Slasher]

20 September 2017

The "Big Two" dominating the Australian domestic scene
Tiger Airways and Virgin Blue have filed injunctions to
prevent a resurfacing of the long-defunct Jetstar.

This must be good news for the long-suffering public who
are crying out for real competition.

CEOs of both highly profitable airlines agree that the
country cannot afford a third domestic entrant, given that
Tiger and Virgin have made further new aircraft orders and
the highly-advertised fare-cuts to be introduced next year.

"We admit that fares can be a little lower than they are
now, but unlike the outdated government policies of the
90's we are driven purely by investment and profitability.
Both cannot be sustained by the arrival of a third entrant."
the CEOs outlined in a joint statement yesterday.

Australia has had a recurring history of domestic duopolies
since the 1950s, where Ansett and TAA were once
protected companys in there own right. From the 1990s
till 2007, the 'big two' were Jetstar and Virgin. It is ironic
that Tiger was introduced as a "real competitor" to break
the then unpopuler duopoly.

[bizzybody]

Not that I am doubting what you are saying but i REEEEAAAAAALLY dont think that anyone that works for Tiger would brag about how bad their application was. Of course we all know that CASA arnt going to make it public.

I would really like to know how things like that come out. They have dont it before with their operation OS so i would ot think that it would be that much different. There would be some procedures that need changing but the basic embryo of all the manuals needed would be there.

I think from an AIRLINE point of view CASA arnt too difficult in regards to getting it off the ground. They even provide you all the answers to all the questions they are looking for in all the checklists. Follow the checklist. Easy approval. We wrote all out manuals ( check / training, Maintenance Control manual / System of maitenance/ ops manual) around the compliance statements and checklists.

Maybe they have had a bad bunch of manuals submitted but really who knows

[Bula]

Do you really think the Qantas group, one of the and sometimes THE most profitable airline in Australasia will just roll over and die.......hhhhhhmmmmmm..... I'm pretty sure there is plenty of money in the kitty.

The whole point of competition is the lower fairs. if Tiger and Virgin were the only 2 operators nothing would have changed..... except the airfares (and not in a good way either) and pilot wages (down they gggggooooooo!!!!)

Roses tend to be a nice thing at first. They look pretty and you really think your going to get something if you buy them.... just beware the thorn in their side.

[Going Boeing]

Virgin have already indicated that they are not prepared to participate in the LCC fare war that will occur when Tiger starts operating. Instead, they will compete directly against Qantas in the premium market leaving Jetstar and Tiger to lose money fighting over the low yield sector. This means that there are only two airlines competing in each of the two distinctly different markets.

Sunfish, from your posts over a long period of time, it is obvious that you hate Qantas so much that you would prefer a foreign carrier to have dominant market share and have all the profits go overseas. I don't know anything about your background but your loyalty to the country that has given you everything in life is severely in question.

[Buster Hyman]

GB...If QF could become a Foreign carrier, it would. (And for a short time recently, it did!) $$$ mean everything to Boards these days, not loyalty to Oz.

Loyalty is a two way street.

PS. Have I missed something? Is Tiger 100% foreign? No Aussie content?:confused:

[jumpuFOKKERjump]

Is it some sort of omen they use the callsign "GO CAT"? I handed over to a discommoded Magpie supporter with the news just after his arrival...

[knackeredII]

emu, what are you smoking?

"some of the worst weather you can get anywhere in the world" Really!!??
The weather round that part of the world is actually very predictable, a conclusion I came to after spending 15 years operating there. Certainly not as bad as North America can get.

"some of the smartest and most successful organisations in the aviation world" That's really funny. SQ didn't display much business acumen with their investment in Air New Zealand and even Virgin Atlantic for a long time looked to be a bad investment, the jury's still out on that one. CAAS in Singapore are much more beholden to the interests of SQ than CASA is to the Australian operators so it's going to be to no one's surprise that SQ will be expected to be more detailed in their submissions to the Australian regulator.
SQ operate in a totally supportive environment in their home country which can't be likened to the environment the Australian airlines face at home. It's easy to be smart in such circumstances.

I was wondering also.....! Do Tiger still provide somewhere for you keep your lunch when you bring it from home (coz they won't provide it), as per their original ad for crew? And do they still allow you to bid for half of your holidays (2 weeks), as the other half will be used for Flight Time Limitation purposes...also as per the original ad?

[apacau]

How many people in the greater unwashed know that Virgin is more Australian than Qantas?

[Icarus2001]

Interesting. Do you have some evidence from the share registry?

[coaldemon]

Well I suppose if TOll, Godfrey and the public own 75% roughly and Qantas took a month to audit their Share registry after the Apa bid ( mainly because it was real close to the official limit) you could say that VB has a higher percentage of Australian ownership than Qantas.

[emu787]

knackeredII.....i have never smoked anything in my life but the way you are carrying on mate.....well.....you have lost the thread....and about the WX in SE Asia, tell the survivors of the MD-80 your same observations!

As for ownership of airlines.....who owned Ansett in the end....get real you people...most of Australia's resources and biggest companies are owned by foreigners...and I absolutely guarantee you buy jap cars and buy "made in china" or "taiwan" products.....you dont seem to say anything about the 20 million passengers carried into and out of Australia last year by foreign airlines.....

Goodonya Tiger or anybody else for that matter.....competition is what we want.... as the Democrats say..."lets keep the bastards honest"

[Lodown]

I'm looking forward to the competition:

1. On direct flights from the east coast to the US with code share domestically. (My fingers are crossed.)
2. With employers looking for pilots, engineers and other skilled employees.
3. For terminal space and landing slots.
4. Between states seeking additional air services.

As for people concerned that the aviation scene is becoming bloated with vacant seats, I would recommend pilots stay flexible and keep informed.

I'm looking forward to direct entry as well at some time in the future. Seniority serves a purpose and works well when there is an oversupply of pilots, but IMHO it is a hindrance to pilot advancement and works in favour of employers when the market is more balanced.

Other than taxes, I don't hold shares and don't get any more benefit from Qantas or Virgin profits than I would from Tiger. I'll fly with whichever one provides the better value for a buck and the better job opportunities. Based on recent experiences, that won't necessarily be with Qantas.

[Sal-e]

Any idea of Tiger's tees and cees?

[Pedota]

If you can't view this email, please click here.

Just received from Tiger . . . let the action begin! And Richmond would be smart to grab them as a sponsor . . .

The Tiger has landed in Melbourne with fares from AU$14.95* one way!

16 Sep 07 was a special day for Tiger Airways. Because that was the day our first plane flew in to Melbourne. Such a momentous occasion sure calls for a celebration. Which is why we're offering you low domestic fares starting from AU$14.95* one way! So book, fly and discover Australia on a budget you can well and truly afford now. And where else but at www.tigerairways.com, the home of the real deal

[knackeredII]

emu, what a rant!

You obviously have no experience flying in Asia yourself, and judging from your posts, you probably have little meaningful experience flying anywhere.

FYI, the sort of weather that MD-82 experienced happens there every day so those passengers you refer to should be asking why their crew were unable to cope with it.

As for the rest of your post, sorry you lost me there!

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

I think Emu is aircraft's big brother. :bored:

[cunninglinguist]

The Tiger has landed in Melbourne with fares from AU$14.95* one way!

Gee, I've NEVER seen fares that low ( plus taxes ) in Australia before :rolleyes:

[Statorblade]

Try and find a $14.95 fare with Tiger. :rolleyes:

Some of the internet fares are more expensive than J*, QF or VB.

Go figure.

[priapism]

It's called yield management milo- and it is used by all airlines.

[Ndicho Moja]

Rumour has it that the crews goin to Australia have seen their new AWA and are having trouble "Swallowing" the unpalitable contents. From what I hear it's a job and in Australia. Too bad, a chance for an airline management to do it right the first time and it may be missed. All that discontent does is cost both parties money and lost opportunity.

To all the GO CATS out there, good luck.

[harrogate]

BIG Tiger news coming on 8th October.

Apparently they're going to announce Sydney to Melbourne.

Let the games begin...

[cunninglinguist]

Still finding it hard to believe that virtually everybodies T&Cs are public knowledge except Tigers, c'mon GO CATS, spill the beans. :hmm:

[Capt Basil Brush]

cunning, they are probably a bit shy to come out with it, because I have heard (20th hand) they are not too good. Apparently its a really low base, with pay for every hour flown, and I think you have to do 1000hrs to get something like 180K, plus pay for uniforms, car parking and other stuff.

Hopefully this is only myth, and a GO CAT proves it wrong on here soon.

[apacau]

After an email went round last week telling everyone to look at their website on Monday (today), nothing appears to have changed!...

[julietmikepapa]

Does anyone out there actually know how to contact these guys about getting a job, other than the 'fall into the abyss' email address on the website?? If anyone does have some information that would help a bunch of reasonably experienced A320 guys who might be looking for a change then please either post it here or pm me. Cheers.

[aircraft]

Sal-e said:
Any idea of Tiger's tees and cees?

cunninglinguist said:
Still finding it hard to believe that virtually everybodies T&Cs are public knowledge except Tigers, c'mon GO CATS, spill the beans.

The answer to this question is bleedingly obvious to anyone with a basic appreciation of airline economics.

I will give you a clue: Tiger are pursuing a low cost model that is so low cost that it makes Virgin Blue look like a traditional, legacy carrier!

[DarrenW]

All I can see is a 15,000 seat fare sale to celebrate the opening of T4 at MEL. Perhaps thats all the 'news' for today?

[nick charles]

Expect to see VERY LOW fares to Singapore IF travel (with SQ) to the US west coast is also booked.

[cunninglinguist]

I guess the T&Cs to embarrasing to post then :rolleyes:
Fair enough

[ruby tuesday]

Peanuts website speculated MEL/SYD to be announced but not yet - rumour was SYD was not a goer due to the fees and taxi times bla bla bla. Not conducive to to a TR operation and not giving away big $$$ for the priviledge of strips on the runway

[Goldfishinabowl]

Yeah I bought Melbourne-Darwin return, $83 all up including credit card fees. Didn't pay to pick seat.

Pity I'm going to have to pay another $200 return to get from CBR to MEL!

Pleased though, never been to Darwin, can't complain, the bus to Sydney from CBR can cost that much!

[TAC inop.]

Damn...talk about old women and plane spotters!....who gives a crap about terminals and seats, airfares and whether Richmond is going to blah blah blah.....:ugh:
..are there flight crew positions or not?...if not, then this thread belongs in some other crap forum
Does anyone 'in the know' have anything to offer here?

[sinala1]

http://www.intellectualpoison.com/Pics/troll.jpg

[TAC inop.]

Baby-jesus-in-heaven......y'all forgots ta include the nice travellin' folks feedback on seat pitch, an' IE consoles...an' uniforms

[Goldfishinabowl]

Don't instigate me in this, someone asked a question and I gave an answer! I'm not "in control of this thread"!

[TAC inop.]

I appeciate that 'fish, and this is, by name, a pilots rumour network.

Milo, though I found his last post quite funny, has posted roughly zero information that would be of any concern to pilots.

If I'm hijacking the thread, lemme know, but I just cant see the point here, unless its a passenger booking and fluffy colourful airplane rumour network

[PPRuNe Towers]

The child troll has been refered to a more suitable site:

http://www.crayola.com/activitybook/

I spend hours there as I'm also not allowed to use anything sharper than a mouse.

Regards
Rob

[TAC inop.]

Now thats the most relevent post I have seen here yet !:D

[galdian]

Sorry Cunning

Maybe the bleeding obvious - the T&C's are soooo soooo good they HAVE to keep them secret lest they get inundated with unsuitable applicants.

Seems about right in our (alleged) time of pilot shortage - doesn't it??? :ok:

However they WOULD be interesting!

[ScottyDoo]

What would be interesting is if no one worked for or flew with these fishheads... Keep your cash in the country.
Yeah I bought Melbourne-Darwin return
Wonder how long they'd last...

Anybody?

Bueller???

:zzz:

One thing's for certain, no one I know who's worked for these sleazy noodles has ever had a good word to say about it. Good luck,fellas.... :hmm:

[SOPS]

Rumour has it that some from the Sandpit is coming in a high post...perhaps he can tell a tale?

[mrpaxing]

confirm that tiger is training its staff at the qf training centre in essendon.what the.......:confused:

[whatsthatbigredlightmean?]

Here you go then .... skipper 95K plus $110/hour from hour zero. good if you don't want to ever go on holidays

[Buster Hyman]

Business is business Mr Paxing...(I've NFI if they are though)...if so, you can bet they are paying top dollar for the privilege!

[Wellhung Unit]

skipper 95K plus $110/hour from hour zero

If that is true, it's not that good......you can earn that at VB easily, without doing 900 hrs.

[Visual Landing]

I heard $112k base and $73 per hr for every hour, up to 1000hrs and a $30k retention paid every 3 yrs. Dunno about holidays, meals on flights or pay for everything else though. (from a reliable source)

[Icarus2001]

So assuming... skipper 95K plus $110/hour from hour zero

Fly around 700 hours a year and you can expect $172,000 pa.

OR ...I heard $112k base and $73 per hr for every hour, up to 1000hrs

Fly around 700 hours a year and you can expect $ 163,000 pa

For that salary and then pay for meals and uniforms I cannot see them poaching many drivers from VB or Jetstar.

[Watchdog]

you are of course correct with your calculations, however if OZ tiger does what the SIN tiger does, all pilots will do the full 1000 hours p/a :eek:

[DrunkenAir]

Just a question??

It is many years since I flew in God's own Country so pardon my lack of current knowledge.

When I did fly there the annual maximum hours were 900. Has that threshold been raised to 1000?

Cheers
DrunkenAir (hic)
:}

PS - NOT interested in Tiger - just following the thread.

[gas-chamber]

CAO 48 still says 900 flying hours, but nearly all operators have a permanent exemption allowing 1000 hours at the controls. But that is not the nasty bit. as you could knock that off in 10 months at 100 hours a month and then have two months off. Personally I have done that in my past life on overseas contracts with no problems. because the duty times were fairly strict and we always got 11 or 12 hours rest between trips. Under the CASA exemption the standard overnight rest has gone from 10 pm to 6 am to 11 pm to 5 am. You can work up to 11 pm preceding your day off and start the next week's work at 5 am. Chuck in the typical one hour commute to the airport these days and it's all bad. The worst of it is that the old 90 hours duty in a fortnight is replaced by 60 in a week or 100 in a fortnight. Try 40 duty in the 1st week, one day off, then 60 duty in the 2nd week with an approach to minimums to land at 1045 p.m. just as you hit the limit, makes me tired just thinking about it and I don't do it anymore! CASA reckon it's OK so it must be.
The more anal of the experts out there may pick holes in this summary, but that's the way it reads and often that's the way it's rostered.

[Wellhung Unit]

VB still has 900 hr limit, new work rules start in Jan 08, base on the Uk's CAP 371, that also will be 900 hrs, however longer days.
Agree with everthing else, app to min's, after 5 sectors, at the end of an 11 hr day with a 5am start is hard work...

[Going Boeing]

(October 9, 2007) -- Tiger Airways, Asia Pacific's fast growing low-fare carrier, has signed a contract for an additional 30 Airbus A320s and 20 options. The Memorandum of Understanding was signed at the Paris Airshow in June 2007.Tiger Airways currently operates a fleet of nine A320s, with 11 more to be delivered by 2010. With the latest order and option package, Tiger Airways' fleet has the ability to grow to 70 A320s.

The A320s will be deployed on the airline's Asia Pacific and Australian networks that currently extends to 20 services in seven countries, as well as the new Australian domestic operation scheduled to be launched out of Melbourne on 23rd November 2007 (pending regulatory approval). Tiger Airways' A320s will be configured in a 180-seat, all-economy configuration. No engine choice has been made.

"Tiger Airways is expected to enjoy impressive growth from our Singapore international and Australian domestic networks, and we are expanding our aircraft fleet to meet continued strong demand for affordable air travel across the Asia Pacific region. The new order will take our total fleet of Airbus A320 aircraft to 70, making Tiger Airways one of the region's largest A320 operators," said Tony Davis, Chief Executive Officer of Tiger Airways.

"In just over three years, Tiger Airways has developed into a formidable success story, and we are delighted they did it with our aircraft and are continuing to expand with Airbus jetliners. The A320 is undoubtedly the world's favourite single-aisle aircraft, offering superb economics and high passenger appeal," said John Leahy, Airbus Chief Operating Officer Customers.

Source : Airbus

[Skystar320]

How could they be a formidable success story if they've never returned a profit?

Tiger inst a public company therefore they dont have to release financials. Who - ever told you that or what you may think, you need some hard proof before putting your keyboard skills on this board.

[Metro Boy]

Well, that was what had been reported in the press.

[Skystar320]

3minutes to post!!!! New Pprune record?

Well, that was what had been reported in the press.

Everybody SHOULD know not to TRUST the press.

Time after time they always get it wrong and always will be.

[ebt]

Well the reports filed with the Singaporean authorities last year show a history of significant losses (around S$40m since starting). It's possible that they are profitable now but I would imagine that it's unlikely given that they can't be getting much yield.

[flyintiger24thNov]

there is a reason why tiger is not making as much advertiding as they COULD

-Jq advertises everyday on tv, newpapers
-TT advertises NO WHERE, they need to advertise in newspapers in their destinATION cities(e,g gold coast bulletin, herald sun, the age etc)
cause if they advertise its gonna pay off for them, AND THEY WILL DEFEAT JQ (its possible)

[dirka]

After being in Asia for a while, and from what i've seen that seems to be the attitude with advertising. More of a "they will come to us" type of thing....

[training wheels]

there is a reason why tiger is not making as much advertiding as they COULD

-Jq advertises everyday on tv, newpapers
-TT advertises NO WHERE, they need to advertise in newspapers in their destinATION cities(e,g gold coast bulletin, herald sun, the age etc)
cause if they advertise its gonna pay off for them, AND THEY WILL DEFEAT JQ (its possible)

Now, let me guess .. you've just been appointed their media manager? :p

[flyintiger24thNov]

well i was at a bbq last sunday, and my mothers, sisters, husbands, brothers friend came along (so mi uncles brothers friend [who he was travelling with]) is actually Matt Hobbs (Head of Corporate Communications) for tiger

so when i found out this i thought yay!

These are the questions i aksed him

Q- any more destinations
A- he told moi that other officials were still talking with newcastle, adelaide but he said that Canberra was confirmed, but there is a delay in the airbus order, and still working out possible starting dates.

Q- are those damn fares stasataiable
A- yes, then he crapped on about all the cost saving schemes (aero bridges, mel airport cutting fees blahblahblah

Q- can u advise me on the next huge sale
A- he didn't tell me too much but he said watch out for the opening sale (e.g around their first flight)(he said that avaiation history will be changed for ever on pricing)(mi guess is prob $0.50c to launceston)

Q- what routes dont have heavy demand at the moment (vise versA)
A- he said they were struggling a bit with rocky AND naturally the gc is the popular route

he was saying how confident the airline was, and it WILL be advertisng closer to the date in the melbourne newspapers

he said the airline will grow routes (abolish rocky grow gc) and will be reciving more planes.

also he said that they could defeat JQ easily

[otto the grot]

Well flyintiger24thNov,
I would suggest that this Mr Hobbs start looking for another job. If he is who you say he is, he has leaked commercially sensitive information about Tigers' planned operation to you, which is not only a big NO NO, it also flies in the face of Tigers' strategy at the moment which is to keep 'em guessing.

[Chopper OZ]

If he ever reads this... I think that will be the last family bbq he goes to! Some hairy relative he's never met goes and spreads information spoken to in good faith :D

[flyintiger24thNov]

well what actullay happpend was that dad and him sayed home talkin in the dining room and everyone else went to the park to play ball, but i stayed to play the game on the tv, and good old me was lissin in to their convo

[flyintiger24thNov]

and we are basically FAMILY

[sinala1]

well what actullay happpend was that dad and him sayed home talkin in the dining room and everyone else went to the park to play ball, but i stayed to play the game on the tv, and good old me was lissin
in to their convo
:confused: Earlier, you said this:
These are the questions i aksed him
Q- any more destinations
A- he told moi
I am beginning to wonder why this thread is attracting more trolls than usual? Interesting to note there has been very little fact across all the Tiger threads, but large amounts of bovine-faeces...

[flyintiger24thNov]

OM OMG

i was ACtually joking the whole time

U RR ALL SOOO DDDUUUUMBBBB
:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

:O

[The Voice]

think I hear a "click" coming - now will it be for the thread or will it be for the newest incarnation of Tintin .. ?

[apacau]

i was ACtually joking the whole time
U RR ALL SOOO DDDUUUUMBBBB

ummm, it looks like someone here just realised that spreading highly confidential AND probably accurate information on the internet isn't the best idea... and this is the way to fix it?! I hope this Matt Hobbs doesn't lose his job because of your stupidity...

So who of us here is "SOOO DDDUUUUMBBBB"???

[Tidbinbilla]

And another one bites the dust. He has been thread banned.

TID

[Chopper OZ]

Thank you. There is always one...

[AnQrKa]

Terms at Tiger cant be too bad. A bunch of KA guys have just quit to head south and wear stripes.

Just goes to show how putrid the harbour really is.

[Cactus Jak]

Steve Creedy | October 19, 2007

TIGER Airways has shunned Sydney Airport in its initial expansion and handed back slots it had been allocated for the northern winter season.

Tiger Australia corporate affairs head Matthew Hobbs confirmed that Tiger had returned slots at Sydney for the end of October to March.

This did not mean the airline had no intention of flying to Sydney or NSW, he said.

"We will go NSW at some point but at the moment we've got to get our airline up and running," he said. "That's not one of the first sets of routes."

The Tiger decision came as Singapore Airlines made it clear the low-cost startup would be its main vehicle for entering the Australian domestic market and it was not interested in picking up Toll's stake in Virgin Blue.

Singapore Airlines chief executive Chew Choon Seng said he was confident Tiger could survive the competition from Jetstar-Qantas and Virgin Blue.

Mr Chew said he had thought for some time that Australia could not support three full-service airlines: "Tiger offers a different business model and the other two have moved sufficiently away from the market segment that Tiger is entering.

"Time will tell and I am confident that Tiger management will be able to prove the point."

There was little movement on any sale of Singapore Airlines' 49 per cent stake in Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic.

"That is still under review," Mr Chew said.

"We have said publicly it has been an underperforming investment for us, and Richard has said he would be open to buying it back if the price is right.

"Well, that's a big if, getting the price right."

[apacau]

Looks like the famous Matt Hobbs is still working for Tiger...

[Big Night Sky]

Tiger will do very well - make no mistake. Yes, many more KA guys to follow soon I expect. Good T & C's too!

Best of luck to them all!

[Capt Basil Brush]

Big Night Sky,

Good on the KA guys for taking the opportunity to come home.

Good T & C's too!

What exactly are these "good T & Cs"??

[priapism]

they get to live in OZ!

[factsonly]

Captains $9,333 p/m ($73.00/hr FDP), F/O $6,250 p/m ($36.00/hr FDP), 10 days off in 30, roster patterns 5 early, 2 days off, 5 late, 3 days off, maximum 1000 hrs/yr, 36 days annual leave, SQ staff travel, $30 000 bonus after 3 yrs. Not as good as some, not as bad as others. After humping rubber dogs**t out of Hong Kong for 6 yrs and seeing my COS violated on a daily basis, it will be a pleasure to move back home.

[galdian]

factsonly

Thanks for someone finally putting up figures that seem to have "depth", therefore more potential to be real (or in fairness confirming at least one previous post that was similar but less detailed.)

[galdian]

factsonly

Thanks for that - confirms a previous post but with more detail.

As a comment the potential for less pay for line pilots due busy periods (training etc) on this formula is very real and the ability to achieve the max income based on 1,000 hrs per year is questionable.

Just asking - what is the attraction of Pussy over Pornstar??
Is it just dislike for the QF machine - or is it a real belief (hope??) that Pussy will become a real force??

Believe it or not from myself - an honest and open question desiring answers. :)

facts - if you're on your way home and happy with what you have accepted then best of luck; enjoy your return!

[Visual Landing]

Well, I gave you those figures on page 3 of this thread, except the rostering side of things. He hasnt said anything new. You are right though, in order to get reasonable money you are going to have to work pretty hard.

[CasperA320]

The numbers are close but you forgot PLUS PLUS --
9% super on the gross pay to take it over 200

[Visual Landing]

If you do 1000 yrs hrs a years consistently, then you deserve it, and you will need every one of those days off to recover.

[CasperA320]

It depends how you do the flying---
Jetstar does 4 sectors a day and short flights
Tiger will be doing long 2 sectors days & nights to PH DN etc, this gives more days off in the month( max 10 in a month then 20 days off)
But as more new a/c arrive next year this will change no dont!!

[illusion]

The 9 percent super is ONLY paid on the base salary of $112K- not on the $73 flight pay.

[CasperA320]

READ MY LIPS-- THE SUPER IS on THE GROSS FINALL

[Metro man]

SQ staff travel ??????? :hmm: Sure about that ?

[What The]

1000 hours
It depends how you do the flying---
Jetstar does 4 sectors a day and short flights
Tiger will be doing long 2 sectors days & nights to PH DN etc, this gives more days off in the month( max 10 in a month then 20 days off)
But as more new a/c arrive next year this will change no dont!!


1000 hours of stick is at least 2500 duty hours or 50+ duty hours per week (if you subtract the less than generous 36 days of leave). Anyone doing this will be tired and possibly fatigued in a very short period of time. For the money on offer, there are better opportunities available right now.

If it looks like a dog and smells like a dog, then.....

[knackeredII]

Don't get too excited about SQ staff travel! It'll be ID75 and they calculate that on the most expensive fare, one usually that no-one pays. It's almost always cheaper to get a ticket from the travel agent than use SQ staff travel. If they told you ID90 then they didn't tell you about the 5 year plus wait for it.

[Trevor the lover]

Dear What The - could you please tell me all the "better opportunities out there right now."

Jetstar? - don't think they're earning $185k as Capts or $113 as F/Os. And I believe they work quite hard and they work for arseholes.

Virgin? Yep not bad money, but any guy with kids doesn't want 15 overnights a month. And they work for arseholes i'm told.

Qantas? Not many guys in our 40s look at that as an option to bring us back to OZ. And they are arseholes too.

Rex? Hmm don't fancy living in a tent at Kurnell and eating dog food.

Easterns or Sunnies? Ditto. Oh and ultimately they work for Qantas.

NZ?? Jetconnect, Pacific Blue??? Not good T&Cs ther.

So where are the better opportunities in Oz right now???

Not saying Tiger is brilliant (and Singaporeans are arseholes) but can't see that its any worse.

As for earning $180k per year and working hard. Ask aone out there in different fields who earn that sort of money are they working hard for it - damn right they are. Think I'd rather be earning $180k per yer flying my arse off than earning 60k per year for 50 hour weeks as a senior loans officer with NAB.

Awaiting your response on the better opportunities, i shall apply.

trev

[Capt Basil Brush]

The numbers are close but you forgot PLUS PLUS --
9% super on the gross pay to take it over 200


It's a bit rich adding 9% super to make the wage appear better - everybody gets 9% super. (or should do)

[cocoblue]

Hi everyone-first post
Vb Mel base does lot less than 15 O/N.Bne does a bit more.Jet* and Tiger (what has been proposed)with no overnights will mean you drive back and forth to work everyday.(adds to overall tiredness as we all don't live beside the airport)You cannot have everything.There is give and take.
What it comes down to in my humble opinion is how much you want to live in Aus.For that you work fairly hard(LCC) but you have clean air ,open space and an enviroment you are used to.Overseas has advantages,in some cases more money or better conditions,progression,becoming culturally more aware etc..-what it comes down to is what is important to you as an individual and how much you are willing to sacrifice for it.No where is perfect.I came back from O/S to work for one of the LCC in Aus.The reason why I am back overseas is because I think that Aus provides the best lifestyle in the world but working for J* or VB and maybe Tiger will not allow you to enjoy this lifestyle over a longer period as it is extremely hard to sustain this sort of flying and not getting fatigued in the long term.Just my experience and I fully appreciate that people may disagree.
Cheers

[Trevor the lover]

Cocoblue.

Spot on, its all totally give and take. Every job now has its compromise. Just getting back to my pointy about how hard people in the corporate worl work to earn $180k and why we as pilots should be any different (god I wish we were. Same about your point reference no overninghts means driving to work every day - well that uts us in with 98% of the general workforce. Pretty normal thing to do.

Trev

[Jackson Bombay]

Dear Trev,
With all due respect to the general work force, if we make a mistake because we are tired we could wipe out up to 400 people. If you make a mistake then you’ve got too many toasters to sell. Not the same really!!
Regards
Jb

[Trevor the lover]

JB

Fair point.
Please forgive my last post - wasn't poor grammar or poor spelling - just very bad typing.

Trev

[evyjet]

QUOTE "As for earning $180k per year and working hard. Ask aone out there in different fields who earn that sort of money are they working hard for it - damn right they are. Think I'd rather be earning $180k per yer flying my arse off than earning 60k per year for 50 hour weeks as a senior loans officer with NAB."

POSITION VACANT: Loans officer NAB. Courses available from $100000 dollars, then you we may put you in a position in the outback for a couple of years first, before being considered for city roles.
Please note: No guarantee of Job placement after graduation, and we will be doing medical checks on you every 12months, then every 6 months after 40!!

....Come on...where is the relevance comparing a Pilot to a Loans officer. I mean we may as well include the whole spectrum of Jobs we could compare to, but it's a pointless exercise.

This complete degredation of our Job status really annoys me. We'll never see any improvement in pay/lifestyle with this attitude!

Compare Apples with Apples!!!

[SIUYA]

Geez Trev...........
You got to the 'bottom' of the problem pretty well with Trev's views about the options available at Virgin, Jet*, Qantas, Easterns and Sunnies right now.

And as the 'tent at Kurnell' option also seems to be a no-goer for you, then you'd better get your application in quick smart pronto with your least unpreferred choice I suppose. :}

[Romulus]

POSITION VACANT: Loans officer NAB. Courses available from $100000 dollars,

It's what used to be called HECS, probably some new name for it now.


then you we may put you in a position in the outback for a couple of years first, before being considered for city roles.

If we take the current high earning graduates they get to go play in wonderful mine sites in the middle of nowhere.

And for way longer than a couple of years.

And in conditions that are nowhere near those of a pilot

And they earn less

And until very recently there was no guarantee of a job on graduation.

And graduation took at least 4 years full time study to achieve. With not too many fun activities (and I assume the fun of flying is where most pilots start) included.

Please, whilst I respect what pilots do let's not overblow it.



and we will be doing medical checks on you every 12months, then every 6 months after 40!!

this one I'll grant you.

Side benefit - your health should be much better than that of the average Joe who has no such motivation.

[The Professor]

Jackson,

"With all due respect to the general work force, if we make a mistake because we are tired we could wipe out up to 400 people. If you make a mistake then you’ve got too many toasters to sell. Not the same really!!"

Thats why pilots have flight and duty limits and bank clerks dont.

What does flight safety have to do with salary?

[evyjet]

Romulus....Get with the program buddy!!

Like I said, we shouldn't be comparing other jobs!!

Oh, and it took me 19 years to get to the left seat of a widebody!!

Lets see where your graduates are, after 19 years!

I guess (hope) you're not a pilot.....and yes, there were fun times, but also some bloody hard and scary flights during my career, as would be the case with all experienced Pilots.


You IDIOT

[Trevor the lover]

Evyjet

So you did some time in the territory at some aboriginal settlement - now you should earn $200k for not much work??!!

I loved my Territory time - and I don't think that automatically entitles me to earn a ****eload of cash for working 12 days a month or whatever you think you should do.

Your attitude seems to be "I am a pilot, I worked hard to get here, the rest of you should bow and scrape to me."
My attitude is "I am a pilot, I love my job, I get to read the paper in my office, and $180k is more than I ever thought I would earn."

Please note - I HAVE NOT CALLED YOU AN IDIOT JUST BECAUSE MY ATTITUDE DIFFERS TO YOURS. Do you need to call people with differing opinions idiots?

[factsonly]

Gentlemen,

I have to agree with cocoblue and other lifestyle orientated fellows. I'm presently a 747-400 captain flying around the world and putting everything else aside, the money at Tiger is sufficient for me to return to Oz on the A320 and spend some time with my children while they are still young. The long haul lifestyle simply flogs me to death and the prospect of driving to and from work each day and spending each night in my home, in my bed and able to pat my dog fills me with joy. I expect to work hard but after 13 years in the military, it's nothing, however they roster me. It simply cannot be worse than KA! Tiger is not going to be for everyone but the sort of lifestyle that was enjoyed by people at AN before the collapse is simply not to be found anywhere these days, only enjoyed by people who happen to be employed by the legacy carriers such as QF. I feel that this is because of the encrouchment of the LCC and if you don't think the dynamic has dramatically changed in terms of increased productivity for a reduced cost you probably need to think again and accept the reality of the new(ish) environment. I believe it all comes down to what you want at a particular point in your career. If money is what you want, there are jobs out there that pay more but everything comes at a cost. There used to be a perfect job and for me in terms of lifestyle that was AN, but it has long gone. Whether some other job is better, who's to say but life has reluctantly taught me to make decisions upon the facts now and your priorities now, not what they may be at some indeterminant point in the future.

[boocs]

some very wise words posted by facts.

b.

[Soup Dragon]

Romulus,
Had to reply to your post. I fly 744 for an overseas carrier (with some of the best T&C). I'm in BKK having just got back to the hotel after a great meal with crew and friends. I sat through the meal whilst someone told me how well I was paid, how wonderful my terms and conditions were and how much time off I have. To be honest, he was quite correct but I then explained what was really entailed.
For example, I've been away from home and family now for 13 days, back home in 3. In that time I've had 8 overnight sectors of 8 hours or more. (so that's 8 nights with minimal sleep in the last fortnight) and 5 sectors with a time change of 6+hrs. This kind of rotation is is typical of longhaul operations and leaves you completely shagged.
The point I'm trying to make is; the pay, terms and conditions may well appear very generous, but sit back and have a thought about the price you pay to achieve them. Sometimes it doesn't seem quite so great.:hmm:

[Dog One]

Facts post covers it all. You have to make the decision, and one can only agree that to have the family circle around makes life so much better. Great conditions overseas without the family is pretty worthless in my opinion.

[markontop]

Re facts only; Is that you st*ll b&rn? Must be, as you went to KA freighters to help start up the operation:ugh:Having set up this low paying operation you now leave again. Just the facts please.

[TCAS Shennanigans]

aye carumba, another thread filled with so much, er ..............., mmmmmmm, yeah, anyway, I hear November 23rd is the day, 5 initial jets, 50 (??) within 3 years and counting.

Not sure who is going to drive them and I'm not even sure what they are offering to do so, all I do know is that the skygods in Orange Star land believed the bogus contract leaked to them hook line and sinker and so endeth the EBA negotiations.

I hope Tiger make a go of it and I do hope it provides the jobs, opportunities and prosperity that should go along with its success.

Yes it probably will come down to the deepest pockets and if so, then would the last person to leave Bourke Street please turn off the lights.