Age Limit to work commercial

[msgrappling]

Dear Sirs,

Hi All. I’ll just get to the point. I’m Mark Schultz, a 46 year old, 215 lb, former Olympic Wrestling Champion, BYU Head Coach, with a bachelors and masters in exercise science. Anyway, college coaching jobs have dried up as programs drop at an alarming rate. So I’m re-tooling and always wanted to fly helicopters. However, I heard there was an age limit of 60 to fly commercial. Is this true. If so I guess I'll look somewhere else.
On another subject, I’m surprised at the dishonesty and greed some schools have shown about their costs and repayment of loans. I don’t know what these schools are thinking lying to me like that. Maybe they don’t think I can tell or that honesty is important. Most schools have confidence that they are “the best”. That’s ok. But I’d rather get a real picture of the positives and negatives of an organization in regards to instructors experience, individual attention, total cost of training to be employable, and the help a school can be in getting me a job after “graduation”. I can’t stand being “sold.” I can’t speak for others but accomplishments can't be hidden and speak for themselves and I’m more comfortable with people that admit their shortcomings and just give me the plain cold hard truth. Some schools badmouth others and that’s fine with me if it’s true. I mean I’ll find out before I make this huge decision. So I’ll sell my house and move to an apartment wherever to train. So if anyone knows a good place to train, I'd appreciate some feedback.

Sincerely,
Mark Schultz

[Bravo73]

Welcome to Rotorheads, Mark.

Your first port of call should probably be this thread:

So you want to be a Helicopter Pilot... (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253856)


Most of your answers will probably already be in there somewhere. If not, please feel free to ask away...

Best of luck.


B73

[anthonywharris]

I have come to aviation late and am 50 so I have the same concerns.

I was at an air rally recently and met somebody from the hiring panel of a small airline. He said that their upper age limit for considering new hires was 57. In general he said they liked older pilots as long as they had 1500 hours minimum (for insurance) because they stayed around and didn't job hop.

As I understand it the 60 rule applies to carrying passengers for commercial ops. It does not apply to flight instructing. Nor does it apply to flying commercial ops such as filming, lifting and inspection as long as passengers are not carried for commercial purposes. Crew comes uder different rules.

The airlines are pushing to raise the limit to 65 but in any case under JAR-FCL rules it is my understanding that you can still carry passengers as long as your co-pilot is less than 60 and has the same license as you.

Hope this helps.

[Gomer Pylot]

In the US, the age 60 rule applies only to Part 121 airline pilots. Part 135 and other commercial operations have no age limits. That may change, but so far it hasn't. In fact, there is a movement to raise the age 60 limit for airline pilots. There is no evidence at all to support the limit from a safety standpoint.

[msgrappling]

Hey Everybody,
If any of you want to email me or you think we can help each other my email is [email protected]. I'm looking for a school I can get trained fast and cheap and go to work asap. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Thanks for all your replies guys. You're great.
Mark

[Gordy]

Things to ponder.....If you are going to go on a helicopter ride with your family, would you want to fly with a pilot who was trained "fast and cheap"? I cannot recommend any "fast and cheap" schools. Also future employers may not be quite as impressed, by your resume depending upon where you train.

[Um... lifting...]

Mark-
Some things to consider:
1. You're in the US to start with. Already you're well ahead on costs just by being an American. A lot of European and other nations come to the US to train despite the costs of moving and visas and so forth, there's not quite so much flow the other way, generally for reasons of cost, though there are other reasons. Most of them end up on the coasts, so it may be natural for you to think you have to do that as well, but I suspect that's not the case.
2. Your best school might be right over the hill in Utah or Idaho or Colorado. Might be able to maintain your residence and still do what you want to do. I'm not from that part of the country, but I have a colleague who lives outside Boise... I can bounce it off him.
3. What do you want to do for a living ultimately? Early on, you'll likely be eking out a living doing flight instruction to build hours. It doesn't pay well, and while you're currently at the top of your profession, the hard cold fact is that you won't be with a CPL and a couple hundred hours. That said, there's a lot of work out there once you have some experience under your belt. ENG, EMS, GOMEX, Int'l Offshore with more time. Learn what's out there and what you want to do. Here's a salary site to whet your appetite. It is only a few companies, but they cover a fair amount of the helicopter spectrum. Visit the individual company websites to get a handle on required qualifications.
http://brian.hudson.home.mchsi.com/helopay/index.htm
4. Don't be too quick to shed your university connections (I checked out your online resume... there might be something there). You have a lot to barter with. Several universities in the US run their own flight training programs, though I'm not familiar with who might do helicopter training as I didn't come up that way. Many of them are excellent. An Olympic gold medal winner who broke his opponent's arm in 1984 (I watched you on TV... I'm just about your age) and coached in Div. 1 might be just what some university is looking for, especially if they can make part of his compensation flying lessons. I suggest you thumb through your Rolodex and see who you know who knows who where... if you know what I mean.

[msgrappling]

Ok Gordy, I get your point. That phrase didn't come out right. I'm not looking for a fly-by-night school. I was simply stressing how fast I needed to start earning and my finances are stretched. I know "fast and cheap" sounded cursory but that wasn't the intention and I figure my real resume, as I assume most resume's are, will eventually be based on the hours I accumulate on the job as opposed to the prestige of the school I graduate from or the hours accumulated therein. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure you have more experience than I do. So if you're meaning to help me, I appreciate it and thank you.
God Bless,
Mark

[Gordy]

Mark,

Point taken---I was kind of being an ass, however, lets assume two lawyers are going for a job.....one went to Harvard law school, and the other went to Billy Bob's school of law.........who stands a better chance?

Another thing to ponder is you already stated you are 46 years old and 215 lbs..... The R-22 has weight "issues", most R-22 operators want "lighter" pilots. As you know, there is NO discrimination (age or weight), in the US, :rolleyes: (yeah right), so consider 2 resumes for a flight instructor job: 46 year old, 215 lb former wrestler trained at "Billy Bob's chopper school", and 24 year old, 160 lb, person who trained at "School X Professional Helicopter Academy"......see my point.

My advice would be to research schools through out the country, some of the best ones are not in Utah, and make a list of pro's and con's. Then ask about specific schools or better yet, run a search for specific schools to see if anything negative comes up. Once you reach that point, I would advise visiting your top two picks before making a decision.
In reality, it is going to cost you around $50,000 to $60,000 plus living expenses, and will take about 9 months give or take.

I see someone has already given you the link to the "becoming a pilot" notes... Here is another one that is full of useful information..

Here (http://www.justhelicopters.com/Articles/cat.asp?iCat=639&iChannel=2&nChannel=Articles)

Hope this helps.

edited for gramatical error

[Johe02]

I would say the first thing you need to do is lose 30lb. . and dont hang around. Youre not getting any younger. The fine motor skills required don't come so easily as they used to.

Good luck. .

[Whirlybird]

In case you haven't gathered, there's no age limit on instructing, though I don't know how easy it is to make a living from it in the USA.

I don't see any aviation-related reason why you need to lose weight. You are below the maximum seat weight limit in the R22 (240 lbs), although learning on that would mean you'd need a fairly light instructor (I could teach you ;)). It also might make it a little harder for you to instruct, as two people your size in an R22 would mean you couldn't carry much fuel. But it wouldn't be impossible by any means.

As for age, don't panic. I was older than you when I started. And I don't think I've ever been asked my age when it came to an instructing job.

BTW, a minor point......not all of us on here are "sirs". ;)

[Girv]

To tell you the truth bro it will be a alot of hard work to make a career out of it but as every one else has said there are different paths you can take. If I was you, I would forget about doing your training in an R22 and should be looking at a 300 c, cbi to train in. In the the end it all comes down to you as an individual and you have to way up how much you really,really want it as you know it isnt cheap. If your married or in a serious relationship its hard, if your single, it will make it easier. I think you have to, have a good look at your circumstances and think about the whole picture before you do it. Dont get me wrong if your passion for it is strong , go hard bro. I know alot of people who have spent alot of money but, for different reasons have got past their licence phase. I do know of some late starting pilots who have been successfull. If you dont start out as an instructor, and your lucky enough !!!! to get a job in a hangar for a company be ready to acknowledege that your the boy!, and you work your way up from there.
One thing though, Once you have about 500hrs you could get a job flying on tuna boats, age doesnt matter.
I dont mean to be a downer but I am trying to show you how it could be.
Good Luck Sir

Girv