BALPA pay scales

[Desk-pilot]

I'm considering the self-sponsored route and am trying to work out the salary progression for someone joining say BA on the CEP salary of £23 000 from there on in.

Apparently BALPA has some pay scales but you need to be a pilot and member of the union to get them.

I'd just like to get some idea how quickly I am likely to get up to the kind of salary I am on now (£43000) gross which nets around £2400 pcm take-home particularly in light of the fact that my financial position will be a lot worse after paying for my training.

I am 32 and have wanted to fly all my life but with a wife and mortgage to consider I need to do the sums.

Thanks,

Desk-pilot

[exeng]

Hi Desk Pilot,

On the current pay scale (Assuming no rises) it will take you 6 years as an F/O where you will earn around £42500. At year 7 you will see the largest rise of about £5000 when you reach S/F/O. Thereafter the rises are about £1000 a year.

If cash is your main priority you would perhaps do a lot better with other airlines who enjoy higher starter rates combined with a much shorter pay scale. Ryanair, Easyjet, GO, BMI etc immediately spring to mind. BA's pay scale is 24 yrs as opposed an industry average of approx 15 yrs.

Please note however that there are very strong moves afoot within the Pilot community to improve the current pay situation at BA.

I note you state that you intend to pay for your training. If however you are able to start as a Cadet with BA then they will initially pay for your training but you are committed to paying a portion of it back out of your CEP starter rate of £23000. I think it is paid back at a rate of £250 a month, but I'm not sure for how long.

I wish you all the best with your endeavors.


Regards
Exeng

[Vision]

DEUTSCHE BA

Does anyone know about the payscales at Deutsche BA?

Whats the basic salary and any additional benefits for pension scheme, excessive flying pay etc, .


Thank's

[Desk-pilot]

Exeng,

Thanks for the information. I presume that the figure you quoted is basic salary, I am however unclear how much flight pay or allowances will add to this (although presumably some of the allowances will be spent on nightstops)

How significant is flying pay and allowances to a pilot?

Thanks,

Jonathan

[exeng]

Desk Pilot,

£6 an hour for flying pay, and allowances a variable beast depending on where you are flying to etc, and/or where you are based. Allowances at LGW EOG are @ £2 for every hour away on the trip. Allowances at LHR S/H or L/H depend on the destination breakfast, lunch and dinner etc. LHR allowances generally reckoned to be more generous than EOG. As you rightly point out however one does need to spend a lot of this dosh on the required 5 units!!


Regards
Exeng

[Magnus Picus]

Desk Pilot,

To add to Exengs comments, I am a 6 year First Officer with BA and whilst flying on the 757/767 I now take home around £3300 but that includes meal allowances. I tend to spend around £300 per month when away from base so I suppose you could say my take home pay is £3000. Bad months £2900 good months (When I get Overtime) £4000.

Your best bet is BA, because you have what we call roster stability which means,
a) When you get a day off you wanted it will remain just that - a DAY OFF, not contactable or Standby or the many other strange things that the 'opposition' call it.
b) You can get work according to your lifestyle needs. So with a young family you can be at home more, whereas if you want longer periods away from home due to the fact that you live a long way from LHR, then this can be catered for.
c) Where else can you choose between a A319 and a B747-400?

[Nite_Flite]

Can anyone tell me the payscale for say the first 6 years as Direct Entry Pilot at BA on the 747.
Would one get seniority below Cityflyer pilots?

[exeng]

Nite_Flight,

The pay scale that I posted above is the pay scale you would receive (unless I have made some errors, always possible I'm afraid).

And you asked, <Would one get seniority below Cityflyer pilots?>

The answer is of course yes. What else would you expect as Cityflyer pilots are BA pilots; when or if you join, you join at the very bottom of the list. That is true whatever your background or experience, civil or military.


Regards
exeng

[CRP5]

Desk pilot I am on CEP pay point 2 if I fly about 75 block hrs a month spend 10 nights away then I clear about £2400 per month, always remember that during periods of holidays take home pay will be reduced.

[beaver eager]

Wow Exeng,

A few more of you talking like that and I might just start believing that I'm one of you now - until I don't even get my lettuce sandwich because I've only been rostered a 5:50 FDP! :mad:

"Speedbird 1234, line up after the Company RJ" :D

Seriously though, I've got my BA contract now and even got my back pay to April on todays pay slip! Roll on carmen rostering and the flying hour rate! Oh, and my hot lunch!

[Nite_Flite]

EXENG - no offense meant be my query. Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't BA annexed BRYMON and others to the BA Master Senority List.
Do you know what the starting salary is for a DEP? Years to upgrade to Commander? and salaries before tax.
Hope you can help me make the correct choise.

Thanks

[ETOPS]

Nite Flight

Only the CFE pilots are on our list as the company has been 2absorbed" into BAEOG. As yet BRAL/Brymon (now BA Citiexpress) are being run as a seperate subsidiary and thus the crews are not on the list

[exeng]

Nite_Flite,

I've just re-read my previous post and it does appear somewhat abrupt; it wasn't intended and I apologise. (Perhaps one too many early starts in a row!)

ETOPS has explained the situation with regard to CityFlyer and Brymon.

Time to command is a difficult question as the goalposts are constantly moving. At the moment it is reckoned to be about 6 years to a command in shorthaul but that figure could alter massively. It is dependent on so many variables. Obvious factors are the state of the worldwide economy and the state of profitability within BA itself. My personal advice would be never to make any plans whatsoever on attaining a command within a set time period; if it happens then great but if it doesn't then you won't be overly disappointed. Not much help I know but it is the best I can offer.

I wish you well if BA is the choice for you.


Regards
Exeng

[Harry Wragg]

Just the facts maam:

BA F/O DEP SCALE (Valid from Apr 2001):

Pay point Basic Salary
1.........33,774
2.........34,088
3.........34,388
4.........34,690
5.........38,612
6.........42,533

Plus allowances and duty pay, both of which are variable. Example, a year one F/O at LHR shorthaul can expect to take home 3,300 on an average month, a year one F/O at LGW shorthaul can expect 2,600, a year one long haul F/O 2,800.

Time to command within this training year:

747......14 years
777......13 years
A320......7 years
B737......4 years

In the fast moving world of aviation things will change though, for better or worse, get your crystal ball out.

Harry the insomniac due to nite flights. Don't do it for the money!

[Nite_Flite]

Thanks Harry,

That was what I was looking for....howcome a first year longhaul takes home 2800£ while a shourhaul 3300£. Usually it is the longhaul pilots who makes the most!

When they advertice for DEP is it infact relief pilots, or is it actually FO?

Lots of questions I know, but it important to me.

[Magnus Picus]

V V Junior long haul pilots will do mainly African and India routes so expenses are a lot less.
I can't agree with you entirely, Harry, about the take home pay of a Year 1 (PP1) co pilot on S/H. You are speaking of DEP's! Cadet Entry pilots earn £1200 less take home until around PP4.
As for £3300 for year 1? You do too much Open Time Harry, take it easy....Or do you sleep with Current Ops? :D
Or indeed, are you a manager who puts out the bullshi* that we read in the papers?
:rolleyes:
All this talk of take home must take into account how often you are away from base - Consequently you must bear in mind that you spend an awful lot when you are downroute.

[Desk-pilot]

Thank-you all of you for the very useful information. Anybody care to post the CEP scale in the same format as DEP provided earlier?

Magnus - I presume that the differential between CEP and DEP closes after 4 years because the DEP salary stays flat for the first 4 years - is this correct?

All in all it the most important thing is to love what you are doing and I have only ever wanted to fly - unfortunately my graduation from University coincided with the pilot recruitment freeze so I'm hoping to rejoin the path I was destined to follow all along!

Desk-pilot

[schooner]

Desk-pilot,
regardless of who you fly for it will not be as a cadet because you are too old so your salary will be a DEP one. If you join BA you will have plenty of CEPs above you in the seniority list, it could take you a while to get a command and bare in mind you will never get really high up the seniority list because of all the aformentioned CEPs who will retire after you do.
Anyway, thats mtpw,

cheers

[Nite_Flite]

Does anyone of you live in France.....read sonewhere that the tax is only 8 %....could it be?....Better start to read upon Mon Francaise....just kidding.

[Harry Wragg]

Certainly take a lot of crews to/from France on the jump seat. In general chit chat it does seem that the tax situation is advantageous. Although the figures do seem to vary. Best speak to taxation specialist.

And speaking of varying amounts, the trouble with pilot's pay is that it involves a basic salary, plus a very large variable portion. The examples I gave were based on speaking to friends and colleages. So even the same person can have quite a large variation in monthly take home. After a two weeks of leave and a slack roster the figures are considerable less that quoted. After some overtime it can be considerably more.

I do know of a number of people who left L/H to go to LGW S/H. Juniority mean't rubbish lifestyle and a cash flow problem. As a general rule I would say 5 years seniority in BA leads to a pretty good standard of living in L/H.

Sorry, I once harboured a desire to get into management, but I got over it pretty quickly.

Cadet Entry Pilot Payscale (Valid Apr 2001)

Pay point Basic Salary
1.............22,926
2.............26,885
3.............30,768

Must be under 28 to be sponsored by BA on their scheme. Otherwise you are considered a DEP.

Harry, currently enjoying the sunshine due to a slack roster. Long may it continue.

[Hand Solo]

Its worth pointing out that you won't be considered a DEP unless you meet the criteria for one and apply via the DEP process. If you pay your own way through a CAP509 course (or whatever they are these days) BA consider you a self sponsored CEP, which means you get £2K more basic pay than a BA sponsored CEP but basically you're on the same reduced pay scales as a CEP. This is so that BA can recover the large sums of money they've invested in your ab-initio training, and nothing to do with them trying to rip you off.

[Mr Benn]

Just another thought here. I know the question was about pay at BA but have you considered other airlines? It is highly unlikely you would get a job with BA straight off. Airlines like the holiday companies (Air 2000, Monarch, Britannia etc.), the low cost carriers and people like BMI start their FOs on around £38k+ On top of that you get your allowances, share options, and lots of other benefits. Also, time to command is alot shorter than at BA with most of these airlines, and you would then see your salary increase by a large amount. There is no bidlines at these companies and so everyone does their fair share and being junior doesn't mean you'll get all the crap flying.
Just a thought.

[Harry Wragg]

So why do people leave the aforementioned companies to join BA, and not vice versa. BA, the original, and still the best.

I would say that getting any job straight out of an approved course takes luck, time, perseverance, and the right contacts. But BA is still the no.1 choice for most people. They are also the largest employer of pilots in the UK, and in the end it usually comes down to numbers.

Harry