RAF Uni Air Squadron

[garywoodrow]

Hey, i was informed about the RAF Uni Air Squadron by my teacher in sixth form. After looking into it at the liverpool site, i dont really know much about it as the site doesnt give very much information. I read that you get flight training, but what exactly do they train you? PPL? CPL? or no licences?

I would really appreciate any advice and info about this as i wanted to be in the RAF but i cannot commit myself to it full-time. :ugh:

Regards,
Gary

[DirtyStopout]

It may have changed but when I was in the UAS (8 years ago) the flight training given was in line with the basic flying syllabus for the RAF, i.e that given to zero hours pilots who join the RAF full time. How far you progress through that training depends on how often you attend and how much you are willing to get involved and participate as a squadron member. They expect very high levels of commitment.

They also expect students to have a genuine interest in joining the RAF full time once you complete university, although there is no formal commitment required (unless you are sponsored through university).

The flying is not recognised if you want to put the hours towards a PPL as the syllabus is taught by serving RAF pilots, not civilian instructors, and therefore they have no civilian qualifications. Therefore if you were thinking of using it as a way of starting to build time in order to gain a CPL i'm afraid you may be disappointed.

That aside though it's great fun and better than your average university society. And it's free!

Hope that helps...

[CirrusF]

The flying is not recognised if you want to put the hours towards a PPL as the syllabus is taught by serving RAF pilots,

Are you sure? I did my PPL after UAS, and I just had to do the exams, a bit of navigation, then the two PPL tests. I certainly didn't do 42 hours of instruction with a civilian instructor.

The LASORS set out credits from military flying towards CPL and IR, so it would seem logical that military flying also gives credits to PPL.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Don't worry, you won't get in.

WWW

[No Country Members]

Oh here we go again.....:*

[garywoodrow]

Explanation WWW?

[airborne_artist]

RAF UAS has changed significantly in the last two years. The flying training is no longer to EFT standard, and the hours are now much reduced.

See this page (http://www.ulasonline.org.uk/whatdoes/whatdoes-page.htm) for further info. You'll get 20 hours over two years, which can be put towards a PPL, which now takes 45 hours minimum, and probably more like 55 if you've taken two years to do the first 20.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

I'll explain. The UASs are usually so oversubscribed that they have to turn away high calibre candidates who would happily sign their lives away to the RAF.

i wanted to be in the RAF but i cannot commit myself to it full-time

There is no room for people who are not 100% dedicated and if you're looking at it as just a way to get civvy licences and then jump ship, you're outta luck. Virtually everything you could wish to know is easily available from various sources and has also been covered before in the 'sticky' thread at the top of the page. The fact that you haven't researched these yourself and your quote, above, suggests to me that WWW has made a valid point more eloquently and concisely than the rest of us could.

[rolling20]

hmm, checked that ULAS website out. No mention of general drunkeness, driving down the runway doing car -to-car tranfers @ 1am, setting fire to pianos or mess rugby!
Times must've changed since the early 80's i only lasted a year, but it was something ive never regretted, or indeed forgoten......

[Flik Roll]

Hours count towards PPL as you ARE being taught by service QFI. Flying you may do with AEF pilots doesn't count (i.e. Non instructional flying). There may even be the opportunity to do you qualifying x-country as well.

What do you mean by you can't commit yourself full time? To the UAS or an RAF career? With the UAS there is a commitment of one evening per week for ground training AKA Town Night (You go to your Town HQ and have a chat from someone in the services and then have a drink.... or 10). You also have to do 2 weeks of camp, normally during the summer. That is the minimum requirement. But if you just did that you might find yourself getting chopped as many studes attend during the week to fly and go on all the sporting and AT expeds which happen at weekends and during the hols.
You may find that your UAS also require that to stay on into the 2nd or 3rd year that you have to submit your RAF application for either DE or a bursary. Does vary though. Hope that helps.

[No Country Members]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-012.gif

[Flik Roll]

You do post a lot in CPL related stuff... don't go abusing the UAS system if its just hours you want.

[airborne_artist]

FR has him on the button - if we are to believe his other posts elsewhere on PPrune he wants to become a commercial pilot from day one. Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[DirtyStopout]

I stand corrected! Maybe it does count! It was all a long time ago. I already had a PPL when I joined the UAS so didn't need to count the hours.

As for the whole commitment thing though, it can't be reiterated enough that to get into the UAS is HIGHLY competitive. I had a sixth form scholarship from the RAF, had spent 6 years in the ATC, had completed an RAF flying scholarship and had a PPL and the interview and selection was still very tough and I considered myself bloody lucky to get in.

On top of all that I only lasted a year as the time i needed to devote to my university course and the fact that I was also holding down a job all contributed to the general impression that I wasn't committed enough and therefore I was "chopped." If you want to make it in the UAS and stay in for the duration of your university course be prepared to make your squadron a BIG part of your life.

[Flik Roll]

You are on the UAS and do a degree as an extra-ciricular activity. That's what happens :}

[Knight Paladin]

As evidenced by young Flik's spooling.... Doesn't have to be quite that extreme though.

[Flik Roll]

As evidenced by young Flik's spooling.... Doesn't have to be quite that extreme though

Not at all - it was entirely my choice as I found flying to be a lot more stimulating than lectures.

And I can't speel cos I did colouring in like yeh :}

[bayete]

When I was an instructor the primary roll of the UAS was to recruit "High caliber individuals from University to join the RAF".
I have not read Gary's other posts however we should not dismiss an individual because he/she is persuing other avenues, is it not common sense to keep your options open?
It is the job of the UAS to take an individual (if he/she fits the bill) and show him how good the RAF is compared to a civilian flying job and change his mind. If they like it they stay if they don't they go.
We took many individuals who knew nothing about the RAF at interview but were good candidates and we showed them a good time at ULAS, both flying and socially and they subsequently joind up. RAF 1 : Civvy Street 0.
Those who are 100% committed would most likely join anyway however we need them on the UAS to keep up the numbers and help turn those who are just browsing.
It has been 4 years since I was on a UAS, has the system now been so degraded that it is not possible to take individuals who are umming and erring or those that know nothing of what we do and convert them to the ways of the RAF. Are we now just improving the AT/OQs/personality of those already keen to join.
There are lots out there who already posess all of the qualities that we look for but are unaware of what the RAF has to offer.
I knew nothing of the RAF when I went for my Sixth Form Scholarship (at interview I did not know the difference between a Tornado F3 and GR1 because I didn't know what a Tornado was untill a picture of one was shown to me by a spotter candidate in the waiting room).
It was the 30hrs free PPL training and £1050/yr cash mentioned by the SLO that appealed to me...16yrs later I am leaving the RAF as a Flying Instuctor. If someone had turned me away for "PPL hours building" I could be earning much more outside by now in the civvy world (as an architect :E) but I would have missed out on 14 yrs of great times in the RAF.
Keep and open mind and give everyone a fair chance.
I ask how many others out there joined up because of a scholarship or UAS offer?
24 Days to go.

[teeteringhead]

garywoodrow elsewhere on these fora:But i have A-Level work which needs doing on computers. Also i play games alot and especially Flight Sim X. ... think I'm with www on this one....;)

[coolblackcat]

Well, I'm going to do an Aeronautical Eng + Pilot Studies degree, in 2008; I'll get my PPL and ATPL (If I pay and pass a medical test) and a degree at the same time; this is the best Uni way to work your way towards your CPL.
I'll be applying to a UAS too, but chances to get in are slim as I won't have an RAF bursary.

The UAS don't give you any license, but it would certainly make up a pretty CV for any aviation or military career.

WWW, I personally don't enjoy defending people just for the sake of it (Alex Luis's name comes to mind...), but I must ask you to please leave your negative opinions to yourself, because, unless you get some sort of satisfaction from destroying teenage dreams, I'm sure they're not helping anyone.


Matt D. Lewis

[Knight Paladin]

Matty Boy - It may be the best way for you, but I'd be careful about making blanket statements about the "best" way to do anything, let alone pursue a career in aviation. You'll also find that the majority of UAS studes AREN'T on RAF bursaries, a little research would also stand you in good stead. Anyone whose "teenage dreams" could be "shattered" by a post from someone they don't know on the internet is, I suggest, ill suited for a career in aviation that will be filled with highs and lows of many kinds - if you'll please excuse the pun.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Matt, Gary. Competition to get into a UAS has always been tough and in recent years has become tougher.

If you even had an inkling of what you are up against then you'd know better than to whine on an internet forum (swathes of which are dedicated to helping wannabes such as yourselves) about being told that you will very likely not get into a UAS on application.

I have been disabusing teenagers (and older people) of their flying dreams for nigh on 10 years now. It is a unique selling point of PPRuNe that you don't get PR you don't get marketing gloss but you do get cold hard fact delivered to you by people who know. For free.

By all means apply to a UAS. It will take them 3 minutes of under to ascertain that you have no sustained interest in a Service career and that your real aspiration is to be an airline pilot. The interview practice will be useful to you.

The very few people accepted onto a UAS next year are very likely of a calibre that would make you weep. The days of bright young things bimbling onto the squadron, part hoping to be enticed into joining up, are long gone.

The UAS system itself is a shadow of its recent self but that is another thread.

Regards,

WWW

[coolblackcat]

Thanks WWW, that was quite a useful post, unlike your first one which, in my opinion at least, was quite harsh on Gary. But I do admit that my post was a bit uncalled for, and I regret posting it; Gary can defend himself if he wants. "If he wants", because he probably cares less then I do. :\
And it's true that the RAF (and UAS) aren't looking for pilots; they are looking for officers.

Knight Paladin, I seriously can't find a better "uni way" towards a CPL, as Pilot Studies gets you a PPL, and in many cases a ATPL also. The only other "uni ways" towards a CPL is a UAS, which doesn't give you any license, it just gives you flight experience.

Most UAS only have about 25 places for non-bursary members (stated by a Bristol UAS recruitment officer), and I guess there is a high rate of competition for those places. If you get a bursary you are obliged to join a UAS.

About Flight Simulator. I personally am against sitting on bums all day long, staring at a screen, and I have met people who do nothing else all day long. But there is another group of FS pilots, who are no where near nerds or dweebs. I find FS quite interesting; once I've joined a RAF-based org, I use their forums to talk about the RAF, and I use their flying to learn about the RAF and about flying. I have learnt allsorts, from VORs and ILS to RAF squadrons and RAF procedures. I also have time for my mates, my girl friend (if she hadn't left me 2 weeks ago :* for a good looking Speedo wearer), sports, and work.

Cheers, Matt.

[airborne_artist]

....about flying. I have learnt allsorts....

I learnt about them at a much younger age, and without the benefit of any computery wizardry

http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/archives/LIQUORICE_ALLSORTS.jpg

[Re-Heat]

The UAS is for persuading promising students to sign up as officers, and providing some useful training for those who are already signed up. It is not a free flying school or a means to a PPL - indeed you will need to do more training out of your own pocket to get the PPL.

Don't trumpet FS usage - the "procedures" in use are unlikely to be the reality used in the RAF, but are rather gamers' interpretation, not to mention that advertising a gaming interest is not exactly going to enhance your image on an air force base, where real people fly real jets.

The RAF is looking for leaders of men with potential talent to fly (or engineer, police, count paperclips etc) not PC gamers with suspect "experience". The life in the UAS is not "military" or "harsh", but is certainly something of an "in-crowd" with A-type personalities who are ambitious in their career aims, if not in their socialising. This is not meant to discourage those who are unsure - it is not full of a bunch of jocks - it just will not suit those who are somewhat wishy-washy in their attitude towards commitment etc - once committed to the UAS, though you may not join the RAF, you commit to time out of uni that you must honour.

If you are interested, the details are in the RAF website, and there are other UAS websites with more than enough informantion.

The point WWW was trying to convey, was you need to use initiative to find the details.

Finally, a "pilot studies" degree with an ATPL at the end is hardly going to convince the UAS that you are interested is it now...think about it.

[Knight Paladin]

1.4g - Slightly harsh banter.... like it.

Matt - Yes, 25 places per year sounds about right, with maybe 5 or so bursars a year. If that seems pretty competitive to you, then you're right, but so are most things in the flying game. As regards the "uni way" to an airline job, doing a degree in Pilot Studies really doesn't have to be it. I know quite a few uni graduate airline pilots in good jobs, not one of whom actually got their ATPL while at uni. My advice to you is to have a think about what you want - if you're hell bent on becoming an airline pilot, then don't waste time on a degree you don't really want to do, and crack straight on with your flying training - plenty of advice around here on how to do that. If, on the other hand, you want to go to university and have a fantastic few years, then do so, but don't worry too much about licenses and stifle yourself with three or more years of studying a subject you're not actually as interested in. Choose a subject you enjoy and can motivate yourself to work at (although you probably won't feel the same way after three or more years studying it!), this may well still be at least partially aviation related. While at uni, feel free to get as much aviation experience as you want to - apply for the UAS and do anything else you can - I know many students got lots of relatively inexpensive flying experience through uni gliding clubs. By all means get your PPL if you can afford it (and the current UAS course is designed to work you towards your NPPL, although it doesn't get you one for free) and enjoy your flying, but if you do decide to go to university, I wouldn't try to rush your career - it will work out eventually, plenty of time after university to sort out your ATPL. All of the above is naturally just my own view of the "best" way to go about it, you may decide neither of those options work for you. Feel free to PM if you want, various friends of mine have gone various different ways with their aviation careers. Sorry to hear about your girlfriend, life is, unfortunately, a bitch.

[coolblackcat]

Oh, don't worry about my ex-gf; she'll come crawling back... or not :*
Plenty others out there.

I was going to do a Physics degree, till I cought my eye on this Aviation degree. It would mean I would apply what I'm good at (Physics, Maths, and "Motorbikes") to what I'm interested in.

I knew that this degree would risk my RAF entrance, but it's a risk well worth taking; If the RAF reject me (no harsh comments on this please :ugh:), or after my RAF career, I'll have many more open doors then if I had a physics degree. No second thoughts about it. I'll just have to show the RAF that I'm commited to them some other way.

I'm not the type of flat-bummed teenager who boasts about how many FS flight hours he has, or about how many Star Trek figures he has... Haven't flown for a few months, and never ever ever (that's TWO evers) seen a Star Trek episode. But must say that the LUAS page does mention a bit about FS on P3 of this page. (http://www.sn63.dial.pipex.com/) ("How to Join" - "Selection hints").

I've got my objectives sorted out, and in the very posible chance that some of them don't work out, I'll do the best I can with the options I have. I recomend this to most people in life.

Cheers, Matt Lewis.

[airborne_artist]

from the LUAS website:

"Testimonials This page is awaiting content." :ok:

[Knight Paladin]

Matt,

I don't recruit for airlines, so I may be well out here, but I'd be very surprised if they gave a monkeys what degree you did, as long as it wasn't underwater basket weaving. They may, and many other employers would, care about WHERE you did your degree - and I'd suggest far more reputable universities offer physics than those offering "Pilot Studies", which smacks of being a made up subject!

KP