Family life in Dubai...?

[frapper]

I am interested in a position with EK, but my wife is extremely hesitant about moving so far away from home (ATL). I was wondering if there are any other Americans that could comment on their experience as well as how their families are handling the transition. The website is pretty informative, but it can't all be roses, so what are some pros and cons for you? Family, friends, activities, social events, etc...?

Thanks in advance! :ok:

[kaybee5000]

frapper

Indulge me for a moment please. I am neither EK crew nor American (I am from the UK). However I have lived in Dubai for 14 years and may be able to offer a brief view on life here that is hopefully both objective and helpful in your making a decision to apply to EK / live in Dubai. In the end, being an expatriate anywhere depends as much on what job the bread earner does as it does on his family’s happiness.

There is a least one other thread (professional pilot opinion) on PPRuNe on the subject of working for EK / living in Dubai. The posts / opinions range from one extreme to the other and everything in between. You will not find a definitive answer on this or any other forum. In the end you have to be prepared to ‘suck and see’. I had a drink with an American B777 SFO (undergoing his command course) a few days ago. He said he was very happy here and would not look for work in the US again. I didn’t ask why and he didn’t elaborate. Only one guy’s opinion of course.

If you are invited by EK to the (I believe) 3 day assessment then you might consider extending your stay (at your expense) to have a look around Dubai. With regard to actually enjoying working for the company much will depend on your expectations, like any other job.

The best advice I can offer is that you must both adopt a reasonably broad-minded attitude with regard to living here and be prepared to be flexible generally. Expectations based solely on life in ATL (or anywhere else) will probably not wash.

As far as family, friends, activities, social events, etc is concerned the world is pretty much your oyster here as long as you are prepared to adopt the broad-minded / flexible approach to life I mentioned above. The UAE is a Muslim country. This need not be a concern for you as long as you are a normally responsible citizen of your country. You’re right though – not all is roses here (like anywhere else). If ATL is Atlanta then Delta has started non-stop flights to / from DXB so not so far in terms of time.

My nickels worth. Hope it is useful. Perhaps some US EK pilots can elaborate / correct me. Good luck in your endeavors.

KayBee

PS - I have not really touched on pros and cons since these are subjective.

[ShockWave]

frapper it's all been said many times before. Do a search and read into what you find there.

As for being far away! You can be just as isolated by moving to a different state as a different country.

Enjoying the Gulf will come down to what kind of people you are more than what it is like here. There are no easy answers.

[kaybee5000]

Well said ShockWave. You put over what I was trying say - in a couple of sentences. Will try and be more brief next post.:D

[Desert Diner]

Fraper, take the following comment you made as a warning sign.

but my wife is extremely hesitant about moving so far away from home


Especialy as she will be alone for days at a time.

[ShockWave]

Thanks KB5000.
Frapper you will not be able to convince your wife from what we write here. Don't even try to talk her into it. Bring her to Dubai and let her make up her own mind.
I have found that the expat spouses lifestyle in Dubai has been easier than in my home country, but of course that all depends on how dependent on family support you are. Friends you will make and there are many things to keep you or your wife busy when not at work.
There are many job opportunities here, not just for pilots. If your wife has skills, she too will be in demand.

[kaybee5000]

Desert Diner - Don't be obtuse ol chap.

Blackburn

[frapper]

I really appreciate all the info guys, but I suppose I should've been a little more specific. I'm curious about the culture in Dubai as well as the QOL at EK. I've lived all over the US, and the wifey has followed me around loving every minute of it, but I've never been in that part of the world, nor has she. I was just hoping for a little insight -- not a lecture on the life of a pilot. Granted we'll need to see it all first hand, but any factual information on the company and culture would be very helpful.

Is there a link anywhere to view their work rules, etc? What's the typical schedule like there? Are the pilot families a fairly tight-knit group? I am picturing a centralized area housing all the pilots and their families, is that accurate?

Thanks again.

[kaybee5000]

frapper

Sounds like u and her fit the bill. No webite will convince you one way or another. Go for it.

5000

[FlyingCroc]

It has all been said here, read through it. Work rules don't really exist, anyway you will work your maximum hours. Time away from homebase will be massive, if your wife is ok with than no problem. I think it depends a lot if you guys have kids or not. If you do she will stay busy driving etc (which is the most dangerous part of living here).
Other than that it is quite quit and easy to live here in the sandpit, there is not too much to do especially in the summer, too hot and humid. Activities are mainly indoors, shopping etc. Living depends on the apartment they will give you, it is not a specific compound where all employees are in it, anyway you are free to go everywhere in Dubai, there are no restrictions and there is few crime and no dangerous areas like in ATL.
Best tip come over here and and stay for a week longer, have a look, rent a car, thats the best way to make a decision.
I know Atlanta quite good and I prefer it hundred times over Dubai, however for a few years make some money why not try it. Have fun.

[kingpost]

Frapper

Please take this on board. If your wife is not happy here it could turn our whole career upside down. I flew with an FO from Delta who loved it for the first year until his wife wanted to go back home. He is now caught between a rock and a hard place, having resigned from Delta and now having to go back and find work. People from the US are close to other family members, doing thanks giving together etc - just don't think about yourself in this case, if she has doubts don't do it.

[kaybee5000]

frapper

As I feared this thread has degenerated into another knock Dubai for all it's worth effort (are pilots ever happy). Lots of disgruntled pilots on other threads talking about lousy packages and the like so go there. It's a wonder how EK and other company aircraft get off the :mad: ground sometimes.

Don't listen to all kingpost:8 and FlyingCroc:{ have to say. Make your own decision based on objective info. PM me if you need more.

BlackKbee p***ed off but it's my birthday, so kingplop and FlyingFrog, please send your asswipe responses zavtra (ie tomorrow or thereafter).

[Ghostflyer]

Dubai is fine for a Western Expat:

http://www.expatwoman.com/

There are effectively no restrictions on what she can and cannot do. Bottom line, as every one has said, is that it is not for everyone. Then again...neither is Seattle or Nebraska etc etc etc. For every 'my mate bought his wife and...' there are 5 happy families. Many will leave quite quickly, many will stay forever and all the whining in the world won't change it. If you have a great, stable job in the US, why take the risk, if not it may be the opportunity you have been looking for.

Ghost

[FlyingCroc]

He asked and we gave him an answer, it's not about EK or knocking Dubai. You are an expat as we are, you might love it here, we don't. You will however always be an expat and have to go back, maybe as an old man. I do not intend to do so, the sandpit is the way it is, it will not change, we will not change it and as our locals here say take it or leave it. I take from it what I can and leave for greener pastures as everybody else.

[ojguilty]

Don't know what Kaybee5000's problem is. For some folks, their present life situation is the controlling factor in their identity, and they must boost it for all it's worth. They feel the need to lash out at contrary viewpoints, because it is a threat to the ego.

The negative opinions here are not whining. They are valuable input to give you a fuller picture of the reality. Most wives coming from the states are not doing cartwheels over this place. I've had a lot tell me they like it, only to eventually admit that they can't wait to get back.

As a pilot, you will be gone half the month or more, so it is easier to deal with some of the negatives of living here. Overall, the job of flying the line at EK can be a very interesting experience. Personally, though, I think it is a better gig for a single guy. :ok:

FYI, the abovementioned dolt is not a pilot, so take his hijacking of this thread with an extreme grain of salt.

[fatbus]

dont let the ( I want to fly big airplanes ) be the reason you come over here, family life can be very good but if the wife is not happy- look out

[Desert Diner]

Desert Diner - Don't be obtuse ol chap.

Blackburn

Quite right ol fruit.

I was not obtuse. If you had an american wife, or a wife at all for that matter, perhaps you could provide some relevant advice to the poor american chap.

It's a bummer to come half way around the world and end up getting divorced.

tuddle pip an all that

[NO LAND 3]

My advice; don't take any advice from someone who's been here less than two years.
There is an initial tendency to justify a decision to come here to oneself and anyone who asks. After a couple of years you'll find out how the wife likes it. This will be the key, I will stick my neck out and say most would rather be back home once the honeymoon period is over. Hopefully though she will be a good sport and make the most of things while you are away enjoying another layover on what is, in fact, a very good job.
Just ask yourself this: What is my plan for when I leave EK?
Because one day you will have to. Sooner or later!

[ShockWave]

frapper I am not from the US so can't answer all of what you ask but all of the above comments are true to those that have made them. Some love it others don't. check out the links, and search pprune. Also google dubai and see what you find.
The majority of EK guys are too happy or busy to be bothered ppruneing often and so this site tends to be utilized more often than not by guys needing to vent their frustration and anger. It's one way we all can say stuff without fear of reprisals and sooner or later we all make use of it. That in itself says something about living here, but by no means is it an accurate portrayal of the total life experience within the Gulf.
If you have had contact or will have contact with the recruiting pilots put your questions to them. They are not the ones selling you the job, they will answer your questions truthfully, they also have their likes and dislikes and will be happy to share them with you. They are there to help find pilots that are not only good pilots but those that will be able to stay the distance and integrate themselves and their family into the culture here. Warts and all.

[kaybee5000]

Desert Diner, kingpost and FlyingCroc

My comments yesterday were unworthy - I duly apologise.

KB

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I can not any more to his list, except perhaps agreeing that the wife should be the deciding factor, we are well sorted, but she must like the life style, or she will want out.

She is totally correct.

Make the most of your life here, and be prepared to bail out if needs must.

Always have the fire exit in sight.

Glf

[kaybee5000]

One last post on this thread then I'm out.

I have to reposnd to ojguilty.

You are half right. I am not a professional pilot.

I did not hijack this thread - see post number 2.

Good luck frapper

Over and out - KB

[FlyingCroc]

I know sometimes tempers get hot here in the sandpit (you see now what it is doing to you :} ) , no problem mate. At least you are an honest chap.

All the Best

FlyingCroc

[ruserious]

But I do love that line Make your own decision based on objective info. PM me if you need more.
So who died and promoted you to being the source of objectivity :}:}

[kaybee5000]

ruserious - nobody. I don't follow the pack (nor do I work for EK). Was just trying to help.

[mensaboy]

I think questioning whether or not your wife will be happy in Dubai is wise. That will be the overiding factor in the future if you decide to join EK. If the wife is happy and the kids are happy, then the pilot is happy.

I don't recall if you said you had kids or not, but if not, then I highly suggest you 'consider' your potential accomodations upon arrival. I have flown with married individuals stuck in the worst accomodations on Shk Zayed Road, simply because they don't have kids. There are some acceptable apartment accomodations for childless people but there are some that are totally unacceptable. This will be the biggest factor in your wife's state of mental health if you are one of the unfortunate ones who get slotted into an apartment building full of 24 year old f/a's. Its the male f/a's who are usually the issue by the way.

Anyhow, this might all be mute if you have kids but thought I would add my two cents worth. Best of luck in your decision.

[nolimitholdem]

married individuals stuck in the worst accomodations on Shk Zayed Road

Perchance are you referring to the Millennium Sh!t-Palace? The 24/7 construction zone from hell? You'll have to be more specific when referring to dumps on SZR, but from what I hear this one would get a lot of nominations in the category of "worst".

Its the male f/a's who are usually the issue by the way.

What the heck does THAT mean? Issue in what way?

[mensaboy]

By 'issue' I mean loud parties at any hour of the day, inconsiderate behaviour and a general disgusting approach and attitude towards women.

I would say 21st Century, then Millenium, then UP Towers would be the top three worst accomodations for single or childless married pilots. I would estimate about 50 to 60 pilots in total in these 3 places.

The rest of the apartments on Shk Zayed Road seem to be ok though.

[nolimitholdem]

So where are the good ones? Or better just to wait for the upgrade...:cool:

[BigGeordie]

It's a loooong time to wait for an upgrade if you and/or your wife hate where you are living. Remember that moving out isn't an option unless you are prepared to put your own money into a mortgage/rent- the rental allowance will only get you a one bedroom flat somewhere.

[TangoUniform]

Frapper,
Remember, for the most part, any expat life can be challenging. Whether it's the UK or Nigeria or Inchon. You are away from family roots, away from comfort zones which have been developed over years. Moving from ATL to SEA to PHX to NYC may seem like a big deal to some, but it is nothing compared to moving out of country. In some regards, it has nothing to do with Dubai, but all together living in a place where the culture, laws and distance from home make the difference. I have run into guys who are ready to leave and their wives love it and "won't" let them leave. And I have run into guys whose wives hung around for six months and said, "see ya!" and went back home.

You have to ask yourself, where do you want to be in say five years, ten years or longer. What is your goal in coming here. With no mortgage or whatever back in the states, you can stash away some pretty good money by living a conservative lifestyle here. Plus as some posters have said, the opportunities of a lifetime are here with EK. Travel to parts of the world where most Americans (ref. Miss Teenage South Carolina's recent show of intelligence on YouTube) don't even know exisit.

There are a lot of complaints about rosters (schedules), but frankly, in my two years here, I fly far less than I did at my old airline, and am more rested. Take a JFK flight for example, they are required to give you, if I am not mistaken, 60 hours off prior to the flight and something like two days off afterwards. The only restraint at the US airlines would be 35 in 7 for international flights and 1000 a year, depending on union contracts. Over the last two years, I have averaged about 65 hours a month. Months on reserve, up to 95 and months with vacation, as little as 35.

All this just my perspective from my personal experiences. Many will differ with me, some may agree. PM me if you have any specific questions. Good luck in your decision, it's tough, I know.