Qf Engineering Tristar Redundancy(no Payment Req'd)

[employes perspective]

looks LIKE QANTAS'S PLANS ARE ABOUT TO COME TO FRUITION FOR THEIR NEXT ROUND OF REDUNDANCIES IN ENGINEERING,BUT THIS TIME WITH OUT HAVING TO PAY A CENT IN REDUNDANCY TO LAME'S ,THEIR TEST CASE IS THE TRISTAR CAR PARTS MANUFACTURER IN MARRICKVILLE SYDNEY,WHO HAVE KEPT THEIR EMPLOYEES OUT OF THEIR EBA PERIOD FOR MORE THAN 12 MONTHS,WHICH NOW ALLOWS THEM TO RELEASE TO WORKERS WITHOUT PAYMENT,THIS HAS COME ABOUT THROUGH THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENTS LAST ROUND OF IR CHANGES THROUGH THE SENATE.

[lowerlobe]

THIS HAS COME ABOUT THROUGH THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENTS LAST ROUND OF IR CHANGES THROUGH THE SENATE.

......Managers Perspective so what happens when your mate Josef Howard loses the election later this year?

[lowerlobe]

MP your post is more of a wind up because your test case analogy is tenuous at best.

The company in question went out of business while QF is doing very nicely.
While the Government is embarassed by this case business must be worried by the possibility that the government will lose the election.

They are spending a huge amount of money trying to pretend that these new IR laws are better for Australians.Your post though is proof that they are indeed not.

I am interested though in your post and have to ask the question.

Do you believe that workers are not entitled to a cent in redundancy payments when management and board members have built in pay outs if their contracts are terminated?

[employes perspective]

you have me confused with MP,i'm EP,and no that company has not gone bust,they are still paying these employees wages,they just have no use for them any more.

[lowerlobe]

Sorry about your username ..It was a late night...must get some more sleep.....less booze..or should it be more booze and less sleep...

[QFinsider]

Sounds like a wind up to me. Whilst it is true that the employer holds most of the cards with this draconian legislation(until the zealots get banished to opposition) there was an amendment that Barnaby and pals had added to the legislation.
Namely I recall there was an additional protection with respect to an additional EBA's protection before the unilateral termination of terms and conditions some 90 days after expiration. The EBA signed after (I think) March 2006 was the last..
So unless there was an engineer EBA post Work"choices" that has expired I think there will only be a redundancy if compensation is paid, and none of these bull**** "operational reasons" to avoid obligations.

Collective Bargaining is our strength, be us pilots, engineers or groundstaff.
I am not affiliated with any union, I will however never vote Conservative again...

[company_spy]

Pass-a-Frodo, in 1989 the Hawke Labour government did what had to be done following the mass resignation of domestic drivers. How are you ever going to negotiate a better deal when you have quit and don't work for the company any more?

You have a very short memory, I must say. Rudd is only using the exact same tactics Howard did back in '96, agree with everything and avoid the wedge politics.

[lowerlobe]

PAF you are as myopic and biased as anyone in the union movement you dislike so much.

Your own link to the debacle and real life example of the IR laws capabilities say's it all....

The Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, the Hon Joe Hockey MP, has welcomed Tristar’s decision today to pay some of its employees their redundancy entitlements.

Mr Hockey is pleased the company has agreed to pay SOME......brilliant absolutely brilliant....

As I said no wonder business is spending enough money to give every Australian worker a pay rise with advertising the IR laws benefit.The only problem is that they only benefit business as PAF said ...

Hopefully they will block any IR changes in the Senate until the new Senators take there seats in Mid-08

Looks like PAF admits that the chances of Josef Howard being re-elected are slim

[company_spy]

The sad thing Pass-A-Frodo is that whilst Howard/Costello will campaign on the "traditional" Liberal economic management platform, they have in reality not done that much in a tangible sense over the last 11 years save for the abomination that is the amendments to the work place relations act (remembering Keating wanted a GST). The real ground work for the current period of prosperity was laid in the mid eightys. High interest rates and unemployment were a global problem and the basket case inherited from the economic genius of John Winston Howard was massive. I would suggest a more relevant diary entry would be the anniversary of "Work Choices", because this is truly a nasty piece of work the true and full effects of which will not be felt by working Australians for several years yet.

[OpsNormal]

The coalition supported quite a few of the Hawke / Keating governments major economic reforms. Can you name a single major economic reform that Kevin Rudd and Labor have supported in the last 11 years???

There are four. You asked the inate question of a group of people who (like the rest of society), have no serious interest in politics - therefore I challenge you to find all four of them P_A_F. You want to s#!tstir, then I wish to ensure that you are completely sure of your facts before we continue.

The Labor opposition can't claim to be "just like the government" on economic policy when it voted against every single economic policy over the last 11 years that has gotten Australia to where it is today.

Australia where it is today? OK. Upon that issue, lets discuss:

Health: Moreso the fact that since Australia now has one of the highest levels (% wise) of people in the Western World now in part time and casual employment who cannot secure the full-time employment that would see their financial pressures diminish to the point that their health (moreso their mental well-being) would improve enough to take the (over)load out of the hospitals that is present at this time. Have you been wondering why there is such a prevalence of organisations such as Beyond Blue etc these days?

If you think for one moment that the Mersey Hospital in Tassie was picked at random for Federal funding then you are a fool and naive in the extreme. It is a blatant grab at publicity when in fact the hospital was to be downgraded.

I will admit that Howard did the right thing in the NT, however what else would you expect when you cash hogtie an Administration for so long (because it was Labor)?

Australia is one of the only developed countries that has not dealt with the paid maternity leave issue. Howard is conspicuous is in silence on this.

IR: The Australian workforce (I am talking of the genderal public, not just aircrew), through flexibility for its employers has made itself tired and continues to do so. Having casual and part-time employment being thrust upon a workforce that really only wants full-time employment (through the three latest incarnations of Workchoices) has seen a growing resentment that has simmered now for quite a while. Removing the claws of Employee Advocacy groups has meant that an employee now lives in a constant state of uncertainty of what rights are going to be removed next.

The Liberal Howard government has misjudged the mood of the people badly and will now pay that price. Business has made the same mistake in that by screwing the workers where they can, they've ensured that the workers will remove business's one ally - the Liberal Party. Again the pendulum will swing. You will see more power being returned to the union movement, however their operation will be more savvy nowadays.

Most people (however apathetic the average Australian voter is) can see right through the government paid for IR ads that are on our TVs nowadays anyway. Most people remember the King Gee factory government interference by the PM as a case in point. WorkChoices has given too much power to employers and threatens the job security that working families rely on to make ends meet.

Infrastructure and Development: Housing affordability is at an all time record low. Why? Wages and incomes. Nothing else, just wages and incomes haven't kept pace with the market. Howard says that the price of housing is a KPI of the health of an economy, yet how many potential new home buyers agree with that faced with monumental mortgages of up to and over $500,000?

A Liberal heartland along the Riverina is in voiciferous furious outrage at having their water allocation taken from them by the transferral of administration from the co-operative between the federal govt and the states. Admittedly there is little or no water to draw off at the moment, however the Liberal governments claim that it was through the misuse of water (disregarding usage caps) that they took control back is an excuse that sidesteps the real issue: There is not enough water storage in the Murray Darling to cover the expected growth and agricultural demand beyond 2025 at this time.

Proven sources of renewable energy, like solar and wind etc etc needs to have more done to enable its introduction on a widespread scale. Howard has no firm policy on this despite the rhetoric.

Draconian laws and the removal of civil liberties by erosion: I remember a certain bloke who incidently is still the PM of this country making a statement after 11/9 along the lines of we will never let them take our standard of living away from us/we'll never let them win.... What a croc! The BILLIONS of $$ wasted on sticking fences and barbed wire around outback airports, the security industry is making a killing supplying men and women with no necks to man airport scanners. The laws that allow Federal Police/ASIO to arrest and hold without charge for an indefinite length of time etc is a clear indication that OBL and his mates have won.

Yet on the flip side little old ladies and elderly gentlemen continue to not feel safe in their homes, gangs of kids of introduced parental ethnic origin roam the streets in Sydney/Melbourne and Brisbane yet the police would rather go after the soft target of a person driving 10 km/h over the limit down a large open highway in braod daylight.

Income Tax at one of the highest levels in the world's economy, yet more loopholes than ever for business. The same loopholes are still there from when I owned and operated a business in the early 90's.

I saw on the news a sign someone was carrying at the APEC protests today that read: "George Bush: The worlds worst terrorists".

If this amazes or confuses you then you have a short memory. You see there was no WMD, there were no WMD, and the general Australian public KNEW that the claimed WMD did not exist. Yet John Howard failed to question the validity of the information he was publically acting on (in cohoots with Tony Blair and George Bush), all the while Howard's military advisors were advising him to back off.


Wayne (who?) Swan: The worlds worst amateur economist. Did you see him after the budget speech on the ABC?? He agreed with everything the government was doing. Everything... If they suddenly agree with everything , why did they vote against everything prior to the election year.
I'll tell you why.. because they wish to fool you.

Well, you've bought (hook, line and sinker by the look of it) the Liberal hyperbole for so long by the look of it then P_A_F that no matter what anyone will say to you they are wrong in your opinion, so there is really no point trying to argue as you will not sway on your undying support for yesterdays news party.

It seems they've found a fool in you Company_spy. What Labor is offering is implausible.

Please eloborate your statement with some form of fact rather than your (ill educated/advised) opinion P_A_F.


It's quite likely Labor will win the election. I challenge you to write in a diary the current interest rates, employment figures, GDP growth, Real wage growth, etc and take a look at it 12 months after the election. Every generation appears to need reminding why socialists who are nothing more than under educated unionists (a car mechanic as Minister for Defence - Joel Fitzgibbon??) should not be given control of the treasury.

And on that note do you need reminding that as Mr Howard has now inextricably linked the Australian economy to the world's? How about we do just that and come back in 12 months time to view those figures in context against the world's figures? Do you continue to accept that the US Housing Finance Market issues will not continue to affect the Australian economy even though the two have no real relationship to each other except for external investment? I might also point out that changing policy across the other side of the world will impact upon future policies here and future directions that those policies already in place here will take or present economy, even in as short a time as 6 months.

What difference does it make where a person has come from in the performance of their current duties? I note that you seem to be a product of the ADF, yet you profess to be well eductaed in IR and politics. That seems odd that by your reasoning nobody should listen to you and your opinion either? Again by your reasoning that I, as a car mechanic (also retired out of that industry) I guess that my employer and the shareholders in my airline should have an issue with paying me to be at the controls of one of their airliners either? The don't seem to, so what is the issue?

More and more Australians are deciding their vote by the issues they care about rather than a political party. It is about time too! I suggest you educate yourself about these issues a little more to get a greater snapshot of what your much touted mate John Howard is doing to the land you live in.

P_A_F you need to get out more and get more in touch with what grass-roots Australia is saying. Your steadfast refusal to listen to anything else rather than what is either printed in economic texts or sprouted from the Liberal Party is cause for concern in itself. I am just sorry that there are many here you just couldn't be RRRsed replying to the myopic opinion you hold.

Have a lovely day. I have to go to work now..... :suspect:

[QFinsider]

Ops succinct post.

Being on the public teat allows PAF to confuse theory (derived from education) and experience(derived from doing)

This country has lost a huge opportunity to pave the streets with a generational commodity boom, which would have lessened the burden on the generations to follow. Instead the well known future fund recently set up to address a problem brewing for at least thirty years! Short sighted politics.

Don't start me on industrial relations. It is singularly the worst peice of legislation I have ever seen giving tudds like Dixon the LEGISLATIVE RIGHT to destroy security of tenure(the original tenet of this thread), with no regard for established practices. A point never mentioned prior to the last election.

What we will see from the fallout of the sub prime market(and there is more to come) is some of the cracks in our so called society.Housing affordability is one measure of the problem, aged care another... This is where we see the fallacy of responsible government howard seems so proud of. The cracks in our society are not only on the roads!
The sad part for the suburban solicitor (Howard) is that living as he has on the public purse is that he does not step outside that environment to understand what is happening. He hasn't needed to worry for the last 30 years about security of employment, his terms and conditions, his "contract"

Much easier to listen to the HR Nicholls Society, The BCA etc. They will keep telling him in a language he knows and wants to hear...Unfortunately there aren't enough of them to keep him in the lodge..

As I said before, I was a conservative voter. As Malcolm Fraser said, the modern day Liberal Party is the Liberal Party in name only............

I will not vote for them again, neither will most of my colleagues..

[Private Patjarr]

I am no expert on federal politics, but from where I stand, I cant help but think that it is Liberal's IR laws that are going to see JH out of office.

I dont necessarily know that Labor will be able to manage the economy any better (who knows?), but certainly think that Liberal may underestimate the lack of confidence in the legislation.

PP

[employes perspective]

3 months to go and counting,tik tok

[lowerlobe]

Here is an interesting article in the SMH in 2004 about John Howard and his propensity to tell the Australian Public what he thought they wanted to hear when an election was around the corner.

This is about Howards infamous GST lie in 1995....here is some of that article.

Every news outlet ignored it except The Australian. It ran a single-column story on its front page next morning, saying Howard had "left open the possibility of the Coalition reconsidering a GST some years in the future". Howard panicked. He'd told the truth in answering the businessman's question. Now he felt he had to lie if he wasn't to sabotage, after 22 years in politics, his last opportunity to be prime minister.

He issued a four-sentence statement saying, "Suggestions I have left open the possibility of a GST are completely wrong. A GST or anything resembling it is no longer Coalition policy. Nor will it be policy at any time in the future. It is completely off the political agenda in Australia." Later that day, confronted by a clamouring press pack, he compounded the lie. Asked if he'd "left the door open for a GST", Howard said: "No. There's no way a GST will ever be part of our policy."

Q: "Never ever?" Howard: "Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by voters at the last election."



This is why I will never vote for Howard.

[QFinsider]

Having listened to a radio interview yesterday, he rabbited on about the economy, the achievements and the future...Shame that he will be part of history.

To turn their back on workchoices will seriously annoy the BCA,HR Nicholls society and all the other right wing financiers. There was never a mention of IR reform in the pre election platform last time round. If the reform was so fundamental, why was there no mention?

The little grub held it close to his heart since the late 1970's.

I remember the comment about GST lowerlobe. I never voted for them since either and never will again.

As a mate found out recently, employment isn't what it used to be. A supporter of AWA and coalition policy he was terminated for "operational reasons" no redundancy.As I pointed out to him, if the boom had gone on for ever then the AWA works. When the cracks start appearing it is the employee who pays the price and the employer is free to continue on with scant regard. They can even readvertise the same job at a lower price a couple of weeks later......A redundancy used to be bona fide.

FOJohnny
FOG