Tyrolean Airways "NEW"

[hh_1015]

Greetings everyone!
I got little confused with the "tips" according to theoretical part of the examinations? you are talking about FAA CPL study guide? and some are saying JAA ATPL.. my opinion big difference?! Well how good u think we can survive with for examble Bristols ATPL-Online qustions? what kind of questions they are asking? or is it something i should not be THAT worried about? i hear the areas of the questions are 050, 031, 032, 010 little bit of 061/2 and also austrias own flight rules?? where can i get those?

And another thing? talk about the stand by seat? how much do this airline charge "stand by seat" any idea?

Okay anybody who has more information would be reeeeally polite to share it!? im more than happy to share all my knowledge from other issues and my already existing JAA question Banks. Ouh and does anyone have information where can i get the "FAA CPL Ctudy guide" in my hands??

cheers!!

on my way to september interview.....

[dartagnan]

Usually,standby seats means you call the company and you ask them directly when and from what airport you want leave.
these seats are free, and are on a first come, first served base.(they may ask you to pay for landing taxes)
They will give you a confirmation number by email I think.
if the plane is full, you stay on the ground and it is up to you to find another ticket.
Usually they will find you a sit on their next aircraft, but if there is no flight, I guess your interview will be reported to a later date.
it is a good idea to call their booking center 1 day before to see how many seats are still available.

for the FAA/JAA questions, I would not bother too much. I eared it is just some basic questions.Still good to give a look at your bristol binders, just to refresh your memory.

good luck to you, and remember, you are the customer(for the type rating) so they must treat you well.

:ok:

[hh_1015]

So as it goes.. you STAND in the gate and say BYe bye to the airplane! ;) allright.. thanks man!

[hh_1015]

Ouh and any idea about the accommodation since its a possible 4 days session??

[dartagnan]

standby ticket means you are the last one to board and the last one to disembark. be nice with the crew, and if you see the captain, say him thank you.
You can still try a jumpseat on the flightdeck if you show him your license and the invitation letter from the company.

it is a 2 days session, and they pay hotel 45 euro/night(which is enough for Innsbrusck I guess, no breakfast).
they will send you hotels list to contact.

call the hotel(tell them you are from tyrolean) and the company for ticket reservation, take your bag and aim to airport.

[boeingbus2002]

Sport Hotel Penz - Just opposite the Tyrolean building. 1 minute walk...very convenient.
They paid for accomodation....that may have changed.

[hh_1015]

well, the sport hotel wasnt on the list i received... 3 others though...checked on the map.. one was on the same street couple other behind a cornet (3,5km away) (Carlihof, Klammstube & Kranebitterhof)familiar with these places? well if i arrive i nite early any tips where to go?? ouh and any tips for the theory exam? anything particular i should remember???

[dartagnan]

anything particular I should remember???

don't forget to bring with you:

-booklet of cheques and your credit cards
-bank statement with a minimum of 30'000 euro balance or certificate of your bank certifying you own a house downtown Vienna.
-certificate of your agreement to receive 1700 euro for 5 years.
-certificate you won't be on strike
-a david clark headset conceived specially for the noisy dash8.

:{

[tractorpuller]

dartagnan, exaggerating just a little bit?..
There are better places to go now, but it's not that bad either.

[the_bookkeeper]

it is either worse, especially on the old, slow dash.

Prepare to be 15 days away from home (thats quite a lot for a regional airline) and to sit in Timisoara, Kosice and Linz and to fly 70 sectors a month for peanuts.

[dartagnan]

why pay for a turboprop rating when you(for the same amount of money) can get a t/r on jet like Boeing or Airbus?

this market is booming, what would happen if right after starting your rating you get a call from a company offering you a job on the 737?

where do you want be in the next 5 years? on a jet with a decent salary or on a noisy Dash8 making peanuts in a hole in eastern Europe?

this Tyrolean selection is insane (verruckt!):=5 ears to refund a type rating that YOU have paid.why not to "refund" you over 10 years?or even over 15 years? they pay you very badly and then they say they will "refund" you.

they don't refund you anything, they take money from your paycheck and make you believe they "refund" you. What a joke!

ask the question to Dr Morawetz alias Dr. Frankenstein???.

[Brie]

hello

a few months ago i did also the tests with dr morawetz.

It was indeed very difficult. If were you, don't complain it is dash 8. Ok it is not like a 737 but, tyrolean threats you well. They will pay your typerating back and with intrest lost over 5 years. And they also fly with jets (fokker and crj). So in those 5 years you have the possiblity to switch to another aircraft.

If i had the choice between RYR and Tyrolean...the choice would be very easy.

good luck

[dartagnan]

you can probably switch to another aircraft, but do they pay for it, or do you have to pay again?

I think I will cancel my interview with these clowns!

[hh_1015]

sry .. what RYR? :D

[hh_1015]

ouh so dartagnan (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=131906) you are also about to visit Innsbruck? well.. as all the people around here says...teacher etc. take it as an Austrian holiday / interview experience.. wont hurt u... :) i will go and see what they will offer me or will they at all ;)

[hh_1015]

and what comes to most graduating students here in Finland, they will star as a ATR F/O.. crappiest salary of all.. even though u dont pay your rating but u still bond your self for 3 years with a waitressis salary.... how much do they pay u at tyrolean? i hear base from 35000e up to 50 000e in 4 to 5 years? thats not as bad as u make it sound? + per diems? right...

[tractorpuller]

Well, I never got as little as 1700 a month. Average first year was around 2000 net. 14 times a year. Now about 2500. Thank God Austria is not too expensive... Hopefully we will get a raise this time, negotiations in progress, but personally I want more time off... :}

Lots of guys starting on the Fokker aswell at the moment from what I heard.

[dartagnan]

my problem is not the pay, it is to find 30'000 euro that I don't have.
but you are right hh1015, cost me nothing to go and see.

[Flyives]

When are you guys due in INN?
I'm there 15-16OCT for my selection tests.

[EjetSetter]

Again I think this is one of the siliest ideas there is. Has anyone asked at Tylorean why not just bond the pilots? Say for 4 years to 5 years, would kind of make sense.

[dartagnan]

I will ask them, but i know the answer.
Airlines don't take any risk any more.Why should they take the risk to pay a type rating to someone who could fail his skill test?and his base check?or leave the company without saying anything or worse:die in a car accident 3 days after flying the dash8.

particularly when thousand of wannabes are ready to spend their money in a type rating like I did recently on the A320. They know you are going to stay, because you want the hours and your money back...

[tractorpuller]

I don't know how it works now, but when this came up for me you could get the 28000 euro from Bank Austria in Innsbruck. This was also the bank used by Tyrolean, and the bank knew about the deal with the company. So it actually works as a bonding, paid back by the company with interest over 5 years. Not sure I would do it with the current trends in the market though... :confused:

[dartagnan]

that's not a bonding, a bonding is when you say you stay a certain period of time to cover the cost of training PAID by an airline.

ex: an airline train you on their Dash8 or EMB145 and ask you to stay at least 3 years. If you leave before once you have the hours and a better job,they can ask you for a refund.

at Tyrolean you are not bonded, you can leave anytime as YOU have paid for your rating and you don't own them anything, but you own money to the bank instead.

it seems to me airlines try to make us believe that it is a good deal . It is not!why not apply in an airline with B737/A320...(the t-rating cost pretty much the same)

a word of caution:
if the airline get bankrupt or if you loose your class1 , not only you loose your job, but you still have to pay back the bank cuz you got the money from the bank and not from the airline.

[hh_1015]

got that one right! :) i totally agree!

:ok: good luck for the up comming exams.. etc!

[Props Forward]

People,

Been invited to Tyrolean @ INN in October. Checked most of the threads on here / their website but can't find the answers to the following:

1) What is the approx. pay?
2) My understanding of the SSTR is that you arrange the loan through a nominated bank, you pay the loan off and Tyrolean pay back the installment to you in your wage... this correct?
3) Can anyone confirm that the above SSTR arrangement is valid for 5 years?

Cheers,

PF

[dartagnan]

hard to get correct info (these idiots at Tyrolean could have tell me I had to pay my own type rating, I would have avoid wasting my time, and save them hotel fee), after digging a little, this is what I got:

1)1800 -1900 euro after tax. I think it can vary with flight hours...

2) 27'000 euro you have to borrow, and you take all the risks.
Tyrolean pay back 1/5th on 5 years, but in fact they take the money from your salary and it looks like a refund.For them less tax to pay and they make you believe it is a good deal.Do you see how smart they are?

3) and the cherry on the cake: they ask you to sign for 5 years for a type rating you have paid yourself.If you leave prematurely, not only you still have to pay back the bank, but Tyrolean Airways will SUE you for damages(cuz the deal is 5 years, and they accept you to reimburse you, if you fulfill this ridiculous contract of 5 years only).

Still good for desperate candidates thus.

"Good luck" in Innsbruck!at least you will see and meet the very rich & infamous Dr. Frankenstein! these tests are just a pain in the neck, bad computers (mac), small screens, bad colors, bad mouse...everything is set to make you fail.
Don't waste to much time on their application form, specially the last page where you have to write your CV by hand.They won't ask it, unless you pass all stages of their "in house" selections.

I can not believe they still run this kind of tests.
Many airlines don't trust these tests anymore cuz you can prepare yourself.
and with a 5-10% pass rate, it means to me that 90-95% of airline pilots should do something else (if I follow their logic).

damn, I shoud have been a psy and charge airlines a fortune!
anyway, thank for the hotel, and Innsbruck is a wonderful city.
But regretably if (after all these 1980 tests) they make you feel you are the one of the one(kind of top gun pilot) to spend 27'000 euro, you will be based in Vienna.

please, add tyrolean to this movie and long life (for 5 years at least) to the new crash8 pilots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A

[heller_ma]

I am there from the 15th to 16th for the interviews as well.
Am staying at Kranebitterhof

[darylw]

i guess this might be the right place to ask. what are the chances for a new zealander with 2500hr and over 1000 twin with an airline like tyrolean? or any other like them for that matter in the top half of the world???? all info would be appreciated.

[Vainilla]

Hello everybody

I am taking the exams the 19-20 of November, I am reviewing all the theory and I would like to know in which part should I be more focused or what kind of questions they ask, and in what kind of simulator do they make the exam??

Thanks.

[dartagnan]

Well..they have been running those tests for ever. They are similar to the Lufthansa DLR Exam. Tyrolean has had zero accidents - not one passenger has been harmed in the 30 years of existence.woow, very impressive!!! I will book all my flight tickets only with Tyrolean from today!

so if I follow your logic, you try to make us believe that pilots "failing" their psy test are prone to an accident? that's all?

what about pilots failing once and passing at the second attempt?

What about the maintenance? fatigue, roster? salary?motivation?

Do you really believe an accident can not happen cuz you have played 2 hours on a laptop 30 years ago(laptop??30 years ago??)?Do you have any experience with an insurance company cuz we would like to know more about the correlation beetween psy test results and accidents.

pass these tests first, and maybe you will change your mind, but for me these tests are only here to select and make you believe it worths to spend 27'000 euro in a type rating.(like Oxford and their 80'000 pounds training)

as long it is paid by the company, we have nothing to loose, no?

[yousif]

Hi everyone, i'm new to this game and have recently been invited for my first ever selection and it so happens to be tylorean. I'm a bit concerned about the theory exams as its been over a year now since i finished my atpls. I've read that going over bristol again wouldnt be a bad idea and god knows that it helped a great deal the first time round. What i was wondering however, is the exam multi choice or are they likely to be essay type questions?

I'd be most greatful for any help anyone can give me. Thanks :)

[Alpine Flyer]

Hey dartagnan, have some grudge with Tyrolean? :confused::confused::confused:

We might be neither the best nor the sexiest operation but IMHO you get a fair deal. That deal might improve in the future as negotiations are under way about a career path to Austrian, but that's still in the stars.

It makes a huge difference whether you get on the Fokker, CRJ or Dash 8 fleet. Pay is the same but the work on the Dash 8 is more taxing than on the jets.

Don't expect to move from a right seat on the Dash to a right seat on the Jet. That almost never happens.

[dartagnan]

i dont care about tyrolean, I just think the pay is bad and the 5 years bonding with your own money is disgusting(2-3 years would be acceptable), but apparently it is the same everywhere.

[blueb06]

Has anyone of you been selected to Tyrolean via CAE (madrid or other) or directly via Tyrolean ?

I just received an invitation from CAE for an assessment for Tyrolean and other companies. If someone has informations on this, thanks.

[colt.sivers]

Hi Blueb06,

If you are interested in Tyrolean only, you'd better contact them directly than being assessed by CAE first. The sel is free if you are invited by Tyrolean ; it's 360€ through CAE.

The advantage of being assessed by CAE is that you can be invited to other sels (hopefully) and your assessment programm is lighter at the Tyrolean headquarters (No theoretical test, no sim ride).

I have received the CAE mail as well and some of my friends too. It seems that the mailing list was huge !

David / Good luck

[blueb06]

Thanks Colt.
I am not interested in Tyrolean only but despite conditions can be considered unfair (pay TR, ...), it's quite the same in most places.
And living in Alps for someone who like mountains sport is a good point .

[EjetSetter]

I will ask them, but i know the answer.
Airlines don't take any risk any more.Why should they take the risk to pay a type rating to someone who could fail his skill test?and his base check?or leave the company without saying anything or worse:die in a car accident 3 days after flying the dash8.

particularly when thousand of wannabes are ready to spend their money in a type rating like I did recently on the A320. They know you are going to stay, because you want the hours and your money back...

Well if thoes thousands of wannabees realized a SSTR ruins their industry then I don't think they'd be that willing to go. If they just FIed watch how quickly airlines would change their tunes.

With a bond you are given five years to work at the compnay and if you leave anywhere in between thoes 5 years you have to pay either a percentage or the whole thing back. If you leave after 5 years your in the clear. Barring any car accident for both sides this is a pretty fair deal and attracts pilots with all qualifications.

BTW dartenga I think you buying your A320 type was silly; but all the best.

[BellyAir]

We all do what we think we must.

No need to take anything personally Ejet.

[Vainilla]

called Sabrina too and she told me that if the flight is complete in tourist or tourist flexible class then I can´t go.

[Vainilla]

Called Sabrina too and she told me that if the flight is complete in tourist or tourist flexible class then I can´t go.

[EjetSetter]

We all do what we think we must.

No need to take anything personally Ejet

Yes but your thoughtlessness has ruined the industry. If you wait and fly as a FI or somewhere else airlines with crappy T & C's or paid TR's are gonna have to change their tune because of a shortage.

But hey I just am tired of pilots paying money for something that should be guarenteed after all the work we went through to get to that point of the job.

I just wished newbs and low-hours would research and not on here because its a biased website.

[BellyAir]

clearly.

(Apparently you can't just write one word, so here are some more)

[ATPLTrainee]

Few bits of tyrolean information i picked up while i was there. Its a €30,000 5 year bond for the type rating. You can be put on any fleet, CRJ, Dash or Fokker. Pay is a not unreasonable €2600(ish) starting.

[dartagnan]

let 's be clear, this is not a bonding contract, as you pay for the training.
the refund your training on a non prorata rate of 5 years. it means if you leave after 3 years, they will ask you the money they have refunded to you for the first 3 years.

a bonding contrat, is when an airline pay you a type rating, and ask you to stay for 2-3 years by exemple. if you leave before, you have to pay back the type rating.

at tyrolean, you take all the risks from day 1.
in a real bonding contract, the airline take the risk from day 1.

at least, the interview is in english, when in germany they ask perfect german.

:ok:good luck for your selection

[Big Frank]

From what I understand of the bonding/non-bonding arrangement, they pay the 30,000 Euros and this decreases in value by 6,000 Euros a year for that 5 year period. As such, if you leave after 3 years, the responsibility for repaying the bond passes to you, and you would need to cough up the outstanding 12,000 Euros.

Just my understanding on the matter, I stand ready to be corrected! :O

[Alpine Flyer]

You pay the typerating to Tyrolean (unless you happen to have the money in your pillow you'll probably take a loan to pay it) and you get repaid the loan plus interest every year. If you leave before the end of five years you don't get any further payments and will have to repay your bank alone.

There are some protections against layoffs.

BTW, the company has just increased the pay deal by increasing the frequency of salary increases for copilots (as well as captains) before the end of contract negotiations.

[Fletcher Lynd]

Ok, once again, let's be clear. i'm sorry for the ones who won't believe me because they had been told something else while going to previous assessment days with Tyrolean. But I've just came back from Innsbruck, I was on the selection of the 25th-28th of october and that's their new policy: THEY PAY NOW FOR THE TR, and that's a 5-year bond.
And for Dartagnan, why would they do that favor if they were in no need of pilots ?? And I don't know how many of us have passed the whole selection, but onto 50 we were 10 at least for the final interview, and I know 2 pilots min who were offered a job...

[ATPLTrainee]

I was one!

[Big Frank]

Congrats ATPL Trainee, how was the final interview? Very rare that anyone makes it through (apparently!), so little information on it!!
Standard questions?

[dartagnan]

50 on 2, it s 4%...amazing.the pilot shortage is really here.:E

lets see next month!

[dartagnan]

a friend of mine is starting his type

again that's not you....it is your friend.
I am sick of this website where people always say "a friend of mine got a job", or "I know 3 guys who got job".
be realist, the passrate at tyrolean is lower than 5%.

[skylog]

If no standby flights are found as in my case ,will they pay for the airfare or is it at my expense?...i am wondering if it is worth the 500 EURO airfare:ugh:

[ATPLTrainee]

This really does seem to be the pissed off pilot rumour network at the moment. As for being Stuck with Tyrolean what about the ongoing structuring for Tyrolean pilots to start with Austrian?

There are so many things you guys don't actually know and i wish that those of you embittered by the fact that you:

1) Weren't good enough to get in.

2) Have had a bad experience.

Take the opportunity to spend your time moaning on this forum!

I haven't had any problems with Tyrolean over the last few months, far from it, they've been exceptional. None of the guys i'm working with have had anything bad to say either. Moneys good, Ts + Cs are good, aircraft are good.

This is aimed directly at Majulah and Dartagnan if you two have nothing better to do then sit on PPRUNE and moan then perhaps you should rethink your lives.

Good luck to anyone applying for Tyrolean, disregard alot of the "Rumours" you hear here, if anyones applying and wants information send me a message.

Sorry to get on my high horse but I just hate people who bad mouth a company without providing any kind of evidence to back up your statements.

Just for Refference this is a list of some of the companies who operate the Dash 8 and who with the Type Rating you could work with at the end of your bond:

Air Nippon Network (14)
Augsburg Airways (5)
Austrian Arrows (10)
Colgan Air (1 14 on order)
Croatia Airlines (4 on order)
Flybaboo (2)
Flybe (35, 25 on order)
Frontier Airlines (Lynx Aviation) (10)
Horizon Air (33)
Japan Air Commuter (11)
Jeju Air (4)
Luxair (3)
Porter Airlines (4, 6 on order)
Royal Jordanian (1)
Scandinavian Airlines System (24, all grounded) [20]
Sunstate Airlines (QantasLink) (7,12 on order)
Tassili Airlines (2, 6 on order)
Widerøe (4, all grounded) [11]

Courtesy of Wikipedia

[papa_petje]

Hi ATPLTrainee,

I have tried to sent you a message but unfortunately I can't.

Regards,

papa_petje

[dartagnan]

I didn't say anything bad against this company, I said the truth only (as usual)...
the thing that makes me really laugh is to see the number of pilots who come to Innsbruck to pass these stupid psycho tests, and most are asked to go home the next day.

this is hilarious!, then some here still say that there is a pilots shortage!!:{

[Philflies]

ATPLTrainee...

I've got an invitation to visit INN at the end of Feb.
If you've got any useful advice or tips, please let me know I'd really appreciate it. PM me if you want.

Regards

Phil

[Philflies]

And another question....

What's sort of Procedure Trainer do they use for the sim assessment?

Regards

Phil

[KAS2005]

The Sim is an FNPT II elite.. Not a very good sim, but all they want to see is positional awarness.. And a little bit of IFR flying :)

KAS

[Vangert]

I went on selection there near the beginning of December, having applied via the interpersonal aviation website (German airlines mainly). Out of the 30-odd there on day one, 6 or so went home after the groundschool exam, the rest went on for four hours of psychometric testing and an interview with the shrink.

The next morning you find out if you've passed that point, 90% go home now. Then the sim ride on a very basic sim, the instructor is hugely lenient (otherwise I don't think I'd have got through!), no emergencies, precision appr, followed by MA, then non-prec appr after a bit of nav aid tracking. Final interview felt like a bit of a formality after the ordeal you've been subjected to by that point.

Aviator444.

I think the people attending the very last assesment must have another opinion about the interview.
Some information:35,after psicho test 11, after interview 4.
About the interview:very subjetive,general questions like what do you do if you ve forgotten your lisence at home? no technical questions.
No matter about your flight hours,Ive heard some of them have some expe rience but at least 2 of the "winners" had just 200 hours,no matter about your age,(+30).
So,be advise,they can send you home after the psicho and you can say well at least ive tried and it was very difficult. But its even worse when they say "negative" and you have no idea why.Maybe your english accent?,maybe because they didnt believe youre interested in learning german? Your nationality? your face?.Not many others reasons.
good luck everybody

[dareen]

Good evening Folks,

I am soon to attend the selection process, my first ever, and wondered if it was not too much of an imposition, whether you would kindly point me in the right direction on how too prepare for the tests, and interview ----- books , software etc.

I would be most grateful for some information as I am very keen too join this airline. I have been flying now for many years and finally have an interview with an airline.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Dareen

[Philflies]

ATPLTrainee,
Thanks for the info. v.much appreciated. Just trying to digest it all!

Dareen, Don't worry, I think you're in the same boat as many others (this one is my first interview too).

Best of luck to you all.

Phil