Flybe - Photo Needed on Application-unPC?

[Mach086]

Hi guys,

just wanted your opinion on something. As you probably all know, doesn't matter what job you go for in the UK, the Date of Birth/ age line is discriminatory so even if you was to send your CV/application form into a prospective job, the HR team will automatically remove that information before they hand it over to the recruitment manager/ or whoever decided who they want to interview. (or at least-they should do - thtas the rules).

But, I have noticed that on the FLYbe application, they don't ask for D.O.B or age, but they do require a Photo. Now why is that? Isn't there some sort of discrimination there? What if they think you are ugly!!! What if you look like a taleban member! ( no offence to anyone). I mean, I just can't see the point. Surely, there is some bias here. i'd love to hear opinions.

Just that in any other job, if a company requested a picture, they would defietly be picked up on it! Imagine they are hiring a secretary and requested pictures first!!! My god- the law suits! you see my point?

[AlexD121]

What you have to remember Mach is that Flybe currently have over 800 applications for positions as pilots. Nobody can be expected to remember that many names so they ask for a photo to help them remember the people that they are interviewing. There is nothing discriminatry at all about it, it's just there as a trigger for their memories when reviewing the candidates.

Also when I attended my Flybe interveiw they did ask for all of our date of births. Although even if they hadn't these could have been obtained from our passports when we handed them over...

[Mach086]

fair enough i gues.i was just worried about myself. You see, I'm quitedishy and Flybe might have concerns that I might flirt with all the Flight Attendants and distract them from their job. ;)

[Neo_RS14]

LOL you and me both Mach086...good luck to you, and all.:)

[skyhigher]

i dont remember any request for a photo? is the application not online, how would you send them a photo as you cant attach anything to the application?

[Mach086]

did you actually do the application?

it is not online, just the PDF that you have to print out is online. It has to be filled in your own hand writting. And it does ask you for a photo.

[skyhigher]

mach086,

yes i did complete the flybe application, but we might be talking about different job applications. i completed the FO application at http://www.flybe.com/vacancies/pilots.htm
which is the one alexd121 is talking about.
This does not ask for a photo and is submitted online.

best of luck with whichever one you completed.

[Token Bird]

I think perhaps they are talking about this new sponsorship Flybe are doing. I also completed the FO application and it was a rather clever online application. Although there were several pages, what was great about it was that individual sections could be saved and the form returned to later. Don't you just hate it when you're part way through filling in an online form and your computer crashes and you have to start from scratch?

[Neo_RS14]

Yeah there are several FlyBe schemes on the go, MAPS, 2008 sponsorship and FO online applications...so I guess some confusion is inevitable.

[Re-Heat]

I though it was illegal to ask for a photo on an application form?

[rons22]

Hi guys,

would you recommend applying for any of these jobs (i.e. airlines) before fully qualified?

I expect to complete my CPL/IR/MCC training in 6-8 weeks and would like to know if I need to start applying now as I am sure it is a lenghty process?

Many thanks
Ron

[AlexD121]

Ron I think you're a bit off topic here! But as far as I know you would have to actually hold the licences before you apply. Mainly because it would be very embarrassing if you had to phone an airline and cancel your appllication because you failed your final exams!

[dartagnan]

it's illegal to ask for a photo as they can see your ethnie, religion and age (estimation of your age).

[3Greens]

Rubbish. It is not illegal per se to ask for a photo. It's against UK law to then turn a candidate down for a position/interview soley on his or her ethnic race/age/etc...
It can be very difficult to prove the latter though.
Dartagnan, i have read some of your posts and am yet to read something with any substance.

[egwechris]

FruitSalad - I take it you've applied for the Cabair sponsorship scheme? Have you had a reply yet?

[Re-Heat]

Have you ever seen an application form!? If you have you will note that ethnie, religion and age/D.O.B are all required fields of information about yourself
No, this is not required for the application - it is for data monitoring purposes, and is often detachable from the main application to prevent selection on the basis of any of these at all. Even if not, it should not form the basis of any application.

[BlueRobin]

*Yawn*

In some countries it is de rigeur to put a photo on your CV. I don't see them complaining about data protection.

[MrHorgy]

Why are people worried? If you get the job you'll have to show your face, unless you plan on wearing a paper bag in the flightdeck? :E

Horgy

[shaun ryder]

I would have thought that a photo on an application would be a good idea. Illegal, do me a favour :D
Hope thats not too much of an un PC reply for you Reheat!

[skyhighbird]

If there was a bias and they only picked you on the basis of your photo, then i would have sent my picture when i was on the beach in barbados last year!

passport photo shots make me look like a hooker who has been arrested and made to pose for a mugshot!!... hope that isn't why they called me back for stage 2!

xxx

[mightymouse111]

Absolutely nothing wrong in asking for a photograph. It happens with many employers in many industrys. Not a big issue!
You are the face of that company, you represent it. therefore they want to employ people who look presentable. This can be found out at interview, but my guess is that it will also be part of the selection process. Also as a previous poster said it also helps identify people.
Law suits!!!!!!!! Get real!!!

[bluepeely]

If you'd of sent a picture of you on the beach in barbados it might of got you straight to stage 4 ;)

[RECSAM]

I believe that in the USA it is forbidden to ask applicants to forward photos, but in Switzerland it is obligatory!

[Re-Heat]

I wish people would check their facts before posting definitive statements...photographs are clearly not part of a valid application form, as detailed here after a brief google search.

http://www.cre.gov.uk/gdpract/employmentcode/partfour.html
Application forms
It is recommended that, where practicable, all employers should use a standard application form [see Appendix 4]. This has the following advantages.
It reduces the time spent in sifting through a great deal of information that is not relevant to the job, which is usually the case with CVs and application letters.
It helps employers obtain the information they need, and in the form in which they need it, to make an objective assessment of the applicant's ability to do the job.
It makes it easier to obtain information about applicants' racial groups; this is mandatory for public authorities under their legal duty to monitor various aspects of employment, by racial group [more...].
It provides employers with evidence that they have tried to meet their legal obligations, should they face legal proceedings under the RRA.
It gives all applicants the opportunity to compete on equal terms.
To reduce the risk of unlawful racial discrimination, employers should follow the guidelines below; smaller organisations may adapt these to their particular circumstances.
The section of the application form requesting personal information (including information about racial group) should be detachable from the rest of the form, and not made known to members of the selection panel before the interview.
The question about an applicant's racial group should include a clear explanation as to why this information is needed, and an assurance that the information will be treated in strictest confidence, and will not be used to assess suitability for the job, or in the selection decision.
Information about eligibility to work in the UK, which employers are required to obtain under the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996, should preferably be verified in the final stages of the selection process, to make sure the appointment is based on merit alone, and is not influenced by other factors. Employers can apply for work permits and should not exclude potentially suitable candidates from the selection process. Depending on the employer's recruitment process, and the type of job being filled, candidates might be asked for the relevant documents when they are invited to an interview, or when an offer of employment is made. It is important to carry out these checks before the person's employment begins. The Home Office [see Appendix 5] has published a code of practice for employers on how to avoid unlawful racial discrimination when complying with this requirement.
Only information that is relevant to the job, and to the skills and qualifications listed in the person specification, should be requested in the application form (apart from the questions in the personal details section of the form).
Applicants should not be asked to provide photographs, unless a genuine occupational requirement or qualification applies [see Appendix 1].

[Re-Heat]

It is not a question of being PC - I am not - it is a question of what is right, fair, and not to mention (in this case) legal.

[Tootles the Taxi]

In my experience, Cabair always require a recent photo when submitting an application for any position. Check the back pages of Flight & you regularly see it in their advertising.

[skyhighbird]

"If you'd of sent a picture of you on the beach in barbados it might of got you straight to stage 4 ;)"

I wouldn't fancy having to take my blouse off in front of everyone in the airline selection stage of Phase 4!! Basically, that particular picture wasn't concentrating on my face ;) if you know what i mean!

[3Greens]

REheat

I wish you would read your own quotes before getting all high and mighty. The document you quote only mentions "should" and not "must" when talking about photos. Quite a differance in law.

Anyway it's their interview process and i gues it will take a pretty brave candidate to question the legality of the application form...

[MrHorgy]

Not that it seems to matter now...

The pilot recruitment system is currently closed. It will re-open during November 2007.

Thank you for your interest in Flybe.

Is on their website..

Horgy

[Re-Heat]

I wish you would read your own quotes before getting all high and mighty. The document you quote only mentions "should" and not "must" when talking about photos. Quite a differance in law.

Anyway it's their interview process and i gues it will take a pretty brave candidate to question the legality of the application form...
The one who is rejected and has therefore nothing to lose is the one who flyBE would have to worry about. If the law says that they should not be doing it without a valid reason (and in this case I cannot see one, where identification is easily verified by photo ID at later stage), then it is clear to me that it is unlawful to ask for a photo without that valid reason.

[Halfwayback]

Having been involved at interview, the addition of a photogragh ensures that the person you are interviewing - and the person you may subsequently wish to employ - are the same person. It is of course an excellent aide-de-memoire when discussing the candidates later.

Nowadays the vast majority of the interviews have HR personnel present to ensure that the UK law is strictly adhered to - if only to ensure that there is no subsequent come-back on the airline or the interviewers.

When you get into large volume recruitment - with interviews being conducted by several interviewers - the risk of impersonation increases. Interviewers need to know that they are all interviewing the same person.

The application forms are duplicated by admin staff so that each interviewer knows that they have the right person in front of them.

In the days of Yore, the ATPL and the CPL had a passport photograph in them and allowed the holder of a British licence access to the United Kingdom.

ReHeat
I think you are jumping the gun a bit
then it is clear to me that it is unlawful to ask for a photo without that valid reason.
You are originally quoting from the Council for Racial Equality Best Practice which is just that - 'best practice' in their view. To the best of my knowledge it is not UK law.

HWB

[Re-Heat]

Perhaps "lawful" and "illegal" are the wrong words - what would be better is "actions that would permit grounds for a claim against x company if improperly administered".

I too have been involved in recruiting, however, production of government-issued photographic ID at each stage permits the identification where required without resulting in potential for discriminatory actions.

[BoeingMEL]

i Hope yur speling on yur apliccation forrm and CV are beter than in yur CV and pproon poste! Yur gramar and speelling are the wurst i've seen in pproon for 15 yearz! It wo'nt be the foto tht screwz your jobb apliccation!

Cheerz. bm. ex 737 depputy cheef pilot and recrootment manager:ugh: