HKIA and surrounding Airspace

[Night Watch]

Out of interest.....

Anyone have any info on the next phase in the long term plans for HKIA? With more and more 737/320 gracing the apron and more to come, not to mention the wide bodies CX and other carriers have on order.... where are they all going to park? Would think it prudent for the airport authority to start on the new terminal now, before it turns into a supermarket parking lot on a Saturday morning.

Any thoughts on the direction and where they may put the "proposed" 3rd runway? (don't really see it happening myself)

ATC guys and girls.... whats the latest on the much needed Airspace reform for the pearl river delta?

[Sqwak7700]

The first step would be to remove all the red tape and artificial barriers restricting this airspace. It is ridiculous. Its like to kids arguing to their parents that the other is waving their hand in front of their face (I used to do that to my sister, hahaha....when I was 6 :yuk:).

What should they do? I'm glad you asked, here is my opinion.

1. The first thing that needs to go is the stupid turn to final when coming in to the 7s. There is no reason we can't join final somewhere west of Macau. Final to 7L and R crosses MFM at least at 6000ft on a 3 degree slope. That is plenty of room for their departures and arrivals since final to HKG overflies the airport of Macau. This would allow ATC much more freedom in the spacing of aircraft to those runways. The same should be done with 25s, which they seem to do already when it is late at night.

2. More entrance and departure points in all directions. All transpacs should be allowed to leave on multiple airways that overfly the eastern part of China towards Xiamen. It is shorter and gives more freedom of choice in initial altitudes as they line up to cross the Pacific. This also includes north gates into china, without these ridiculous altitude restrictions that require climbs in HK airspace.

3. HK has to join the rest of the world in applying closer separation tolerances. That means not telling a guy to expedite TO when there is a guy on final to the same runway 10 miles out :ugh: (I could TO, fly a tight pattern, and then land and clear the runway in that time!) It also means using BOTH runways for TO and LDG. So what if you have to wait a few minutes before TO for arrival traffic. This is a complement, HK has a great system that rarely breaks down, I'm just saying we can take the training wheels off. Just as long as we keep the A-team working the tower or at least pay better to attract more professionals.

All these are dependant on China's government growing up. Here you have this country spending billions on infrastructure, building these amazing airport meghubs that aren't being used to capacity due to the archaic communist airspace by which they are surrounded. It is like building beutifull, wide highway on-ramps for a dirt road. There is no reason that China needs so much friggin restricted airspace over miles of nothingness. Me thinks it is time for them to evolve, so maybe things will change in a few hundred years. :hmm:

[keen_watcher]

AAHK announced in January 2006 that a remote air-side terminal will be built to accommodate smaller a/c. Please see quoted paragraph from AAHK press release below.

" AA will invest more than $1 billion to construct a new concourse which is designed to support the movement of small aircraft. Close to the existing passenger terminal, the new Satellite Concourse will be linked with 10 bridge-served aircraft stands. A total of 11 parking stands will also be upgraded. "

[throw a dyce]

7700,
When I was there as an ATCO these were the points that we argued for.The CAD can't even put in minimum vortex spacing on final approach,which has been standard in the UK for decades.
When CLK opened they had a great chance to modernise procedures away from the Kai Tak 1950's Dakota approach.As soon as the old school Kai tak lot got there,then they were in mourning.All they wanted to do was turn it into KaiTak.
Couple that with the Fred Flintstone separation standards that CDC has to put on,and you have the situation right now.Yeah pour more concrete but unless the ATC system is brought in line with modern thinking,then all the smaller aircraft will be sat sitting there waiting on the ATC system to catch up.
Bekolblockage you're the man.:D:ok:

Ps.A lot of good guys left because they had had enough of ''The CAD system''.HK ATC can be a very frustrating place to work after the real world.:ugh:

[dragon501]

They can also be a frustrating lot when flying... ;-) 250 kts all the way round Siera2D and then once heading inbound to TD max Speed till 8 mile final..... Get's me puzzled everytime they do it.......

[Dan Winterland]

When you enter via SIERA or DOTMI, you are already sequenced from that point. You can fly at 300 if you want, but you will just fly more track miles. You're better off flying at Green Dot and saving fuel.

Info from the horse's mouth in case anyone wants to dispute it.

[bekolblockage]

Bekolblockage you're the man.


I could tell you, but I'd have to shoot you. :cool: :E

[On the beach]

You can tell me bekolblockage. I won't tell anyone else - honest.:O
On the beach

[SuzieWong]

CAD have lots of plans including new Centre, but my colleage and I wonder where they plan to get the staffing from:confused:
Heard they only got the CSB approval for half the SATCO they ask for. ( maybe they could spend a tiny % of that 1.6 billion we help AA to pay to Govt). Almost all the expat gone on area side now and more than 20 in APP tower to retire soon:eek:.
Latest newsletter from Managment say 10% leave "excess" (or some words like this) available - :confused::confused::confused:. So how come were owed almost 8,000 hours TOIL :confused: Why I'm asked (told!) to work day 10 so often.:yuk: CSB say we are just the same as other Civil Servant - ok, then don't ring me on my weekend and put pressure to come in. I'm tired. :zzz: Ring someone from the "Tung Chung pool" -ha.:D
Heard they buy a new roster software - all it prove is we don't have enough staff!!!:{

[throw a dyce]

New Rostering software?:D Well it would make a change from the 20 page Haynes manual that is produced every month.
As for 10th day,unpaid,compulsory,unjustified OVERTIME.
Well if CAD want out of an increasingly huge hole they could always pay you out.Going rate in Nats for AVAA is about £400 to £500 per day.That's a 1000 days ( 8000hrs into days) @ £500 per day =£500,000 or about HK$ 7,500,000.
Just buy everyones TOIL out,then get a roster which is TOIL neutral,like the one we had in 98.Scrap the entire TOIL system unless you actually come in for meetings etc.Get an AVAA system which pays for 10th day working if the member of staff agrees to it.
As for new staff.Hire expats but the real world is paying better and HK as until about last month had pay cuts.The gratuity is now 15%,so not so attractive.HK is dying in pollution.OK you would get expats,but there is also Pprune telling people about the pitfalls in advance.CAD just seem to have their heads where it's been since 98;In the sand.Good luck,Inshallah,Whatever.:p

[LapSap]

Latest newsletter from Managment say 10% leave "excess" (or some words like this) available

Wow! Didn't see that. You mean they say we have enough staff now to provide everyone's leave entitlements under the CSRs PLUS 10% surplus?
How come we don't roster a TMS every day then?

then don't ring me on my weekend and put pressure to come in
Exactly. 4.97% pay rise for 100% productivity increase means don't answer your phone.

[SuzieWong]

I recall it say something like "xx% of leave REQUESTS were approved" with 10% spare. Of coarse we all know "due critical staff shortage.." blah, blah, blah only zero point can get their leave, so of coarse hardly anybody apply cos they think they can't get it!!.