AURIGNY AIR working conditions as FO ?

[pablo2973]

Hi everyone , can anybody help me to find out the working conditions as FO flying the ATR 72 for Aurigny Air ? costs of living in Guernsey ,working hours ,etc.
thank you indeed in advance

[hardcase]

i have heard that FO's don't fly many hours, people have been on a lot of standbys. Great in summer not so great in winter, can be a bit boring when the weather is crap. Guernsey is ok, i used to day stop there with ACL and enjoyed it. I haven't lived there tho.

I used to love the approach on a windy day to RW27. :E

HC :ok:

[GR600]

Hi everyone , can anybody help me to find out the working conditions as FO flying the ATR 72 for Aurigny Air ? costs of living in Guernsey ,working hours ,etc.
thank you indeed in advance


Hello Sir,

First of all, the full name of the company is Aurigny Air Services. Aurigny means Alderney in French, and it is where our OPS are located.
We have 3 ATR72s which are based at Guernsey.
1 ATR42 which is based at London Southend at the moment.
One important thing to mention, Aurigny Air Services is THE Guernsey States' flag carrier...

Basically, in summer time we use all the ATR72s for our regular routes from Guernsey to Gatwick, Stansted, Manchester, Bristol.
In winter we usually operate 2 ATR72s for those regular routes and one spare ATR72 is used for charters in PAX configuration or in cargo configuration, to destinations all over Europe.

The ATR 42 is for charters under the Aurigny AOC but more or less managed by its owner ( which is the owner of the ex Air Wales !).

Guernsey is a very pleasant place to live, with lots of friendly local people. The roads are very narrow and the limited speed is 35 MPH. It is a very quiet island, with wonderful places to go for a long walk.
Life is as expensive as in the UK. Housing is normally expensive although you can find reasonable prices.
It is a fiscal heaven so whatever your salary, you only pay 20% for your income tax :cool:

As for working with Aurigny. I would say it is a good place to work. if you are on earlies you will report at 6 AM and finish your duties at 1 PM, and if you are on lates, you will start your duties at 1 PM and finish at 9 PM.
No nightstops, you will be able to sleep in your own bed every day, unless you do a charter wich is not often.

We normally fly 4 sectors per duty, so it means 2 as PF, and 2 as PNF.
The roster is not fixe, but you always have your 2 consecutive days OFF per week.

I am a captain, but my FOs seem to be flying very few (15 hours per months) at the moment, this is because the company keeps recruiting more FOs than we normally need. (don't ask me why, nobody knows :}).

The quality of training is of good standard...apart from the CRM !! Some of my FOs and cabin crew still don't understand that the chief on board is the captain only. That's why as a captain we get paid more money than anybody else, simply because we are the only one reliable on board. But some people are silly and they will never understand it. That is the only negative point I would say about Aurigny.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Cheerio.

[152wiseguy]

That's why as a captain we get paid more money than anybody else, simply because we are the only one reliable on board.

WTF?? :rolleyes:

[gunka]

GR600, unbelievable. You seem to be the one with CRM issues. So glad i don't have to spend even a paltry 15 hours a month sat next to you. So are you tax shy or just unable to get a jet job with your attitude. Not doing a decent company any favours in the recruitment department there chief

[Dougle Mcguire]

Is that guy for real????????? My blood is boiling reading his post. How do fools like him get through the net. Come on Aurigny........Captains like him are bad news.......sort it out!!!! And this guy wonders why there is a CRM problem.........................

[pablo2973]

Thank you very much for the information ,thats what I needed to know, yes it sounds weird that Aurigny Air services keeps recruiting more FO´s than needed ...... may be they plan to get more airplanes into the ATR fleet ,that will be good news.
Anyway thank you very much indeed.
Best regards

[newcomer]

or keeping the FO's there for longer, @15 hrs a month should get your 500hrs multi crew in just about 3.5yrs.

[hardcase]

if you are current on the ATR, come to ACL, good salary and per diems, live where you want so long as you are near an airport....and also you wouldnt have to fly with the guy above....

:E

[GR600]

may be they plan to get more airplanes into the ATR fleet ,that will be good news.

We have (at last) ordered 2 brand new ATR72-500s. It is time to replace our current flying rubbishes :oh:

GR600, unbelievable. You seem to be the one with CRM issues. So glad i don't have to spend even a paltry 15 hours a month sat next to you. So are you tax shy or just unable to get a jet job with your attitude. Not doing a decent company any favours in the recruitment department there chief


Dear Sir,

You seem to be quite nervous and I am very sorry for you. You are ridiculous to ask me if I am able or not to get a jet job. Do you know me ? Do you really believe that flying a jet means being a better pilot ? At Aurigny there are lots of guys who used to fly jets. One of our ATR captains was a captain TRE on the B737/B757/B767 at British Airways. Lots of guys flying trislander (you know this "little mosquito" with piston engines?) were previously on B737, A321, B747....

About CRM, I know a lot thanks to my great experience. May I remind you that the captain is the one who makes the last decision, not the FO. The captain is nothing but the brain of the aircraft, not the FO.

good luck.

Cheerio.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:


One is of course entirely in sympathy with the thoughts of GR600 as to the importance of captains and the insignificance of the rest of the crew.
However the airing of such views on a forum such as this is only bound to remind those who would be the captains of the future as to where some of the larger dinosaurs kept their secondary brains.:D

[RoyHudd]

Actually GR is airing a view reflecting a common problem in the industry, namely FO's and CC are over-familiar and under-respectful of captains. This can undermine their role when things get critical, which can happen very quickly in aviation. Captain is the boss, and this needs to be recognized.

Incidentally, I am an SFO and know that there are a few captains with bad attitudes. This particular gent does not strike me as one wrt what he has written. Some of you are exemplifying what he writes with your silly responses.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Hang on have I suddenly been transported into an alternate reality.

"Over-familiarity" ? Since when has being friends as well as colleagues been unacceptable. I have flown with close friends as an F/O and it was never an issue, in fact it was a positive benefit. Both relaxed and both trusting and more confident of the others abilities than you would be with a stranger.

Yes, a Captain is the final arbiter of all decisions, but having any sort of gap between crews is a bad thing. If an F/O spots a problem, it is their duty to mention their concerns, it is also their duty to take over if the Skipper acts in a dangerous manner.

That is why we have two qualified crew.

Any decent manager will use the knowledge and skills of the whole team, be it CC, F/O, Engineers, Ramp agents etc....... They aren't the "brain of the aircraft" they are the ones responsible.

If you don't like the attitude of a crew member, it is up to the Captain to make it clear. You are the line manager for an F/O on a daily basis.

Maybe the problem is that you aren't tough enough to bring "errant" F/O's into line, or are you simply acting like a dinosaur and grumbling about the "kids of today"?

As for working for Aurigny. I have no idea.:O

[Hachet Harry]

if you are current on the ATR, come to ACL

Forgive me hardcase, who are ACL?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Air Contractors. Cargo company using lots of different types including the ATR.

[Flap40]

I may be wrong, but I suspect that English is not GR600's first language and if so there may be some differences in interpretation.

[hardcase]

ACL= Air Contractors Ltd, we fly A300, ATR and Herc, around Europe.

sorry had just woke after a night duty :ouch:

Hardcase

[liftman]

...hardcase how is ACL? ( atr F/O)

roster, base, lifestyle money?

...Any chanche flying one of the most beautiful plane? ( Herc)

[Canada Goose]

I may be wrong, but I suspect that English is not GR600's first language and if so there may be some differences in interpretation.

Flap40 - I was thinking along the same lines ! Giving the benefit of doubt !!

[pablo2973]

All of you except one or two have forgoten about my original question , is there anyone who can tell me how is flying for Aurigny Air Services ?
thank you very much indeed .

[saabsforever]

Pablo,

I was at Aurigny until flung out in the great ethnic cleansing of 2005 when the non ATR rated Saab Pilots were booted for rated contract ATR Pilots when the Saabs were retired after being put on uneconomic routes. Thats how the management look after the workforce:hmm:. But on line it is a good company to work for. Good roster as described, quite demanding flying with London zone and gale force fog at Guernsey. Not much flying in the fog and drizzle of winter, can be depressing. Good people with some very experienced Captains who tend not to move on as they want to stay in Guernsey, hence not that many commands come up. Most of the FOs tend to have high time compared to most on Turboprops and then move on rather than up. Command authority is not well recognised by management/ground staff/cabin crew in alot of cases hence the fustration by a previous poster, never had that problem from the FOs though.
Guernsey is expensive especially housing, quite crowded and just not a big place, FO salary is just enough to live on in your own flat there. The locals are not very outgoing and tend to sit about counting their money, not interested in outsiders. But there is usually a good social scene from the company crowd who come from all over and plenty of fun to be had. In all well worth a go in spite of a few faults and expect to move on on a couple of years. The interview used to be a chat with the Chief Pilot and Fleet Manager and they expect you to have a look around Guernsey to make sure you want to live there. A fairy low stress affair but this may have changed.

[Knee Trembler]

Stuff the original post;-), this one has taken a much more interesting turn!

I for one have full sympathy for the views aired regarding FOs. Until the recent tightening of security measures I used to carry a loaded pistol to work. At the first hint of dissent from the right I would dispatch the fellow (refused to fly with skirts of course!) with a single shot to the head. Found I could manage quite well on my own and without the distractions of inane claptrap I could concentrate on the crossword.

I'm a bit easier on the dollies, just keep them fetching cups of tea and the day goes by nice and smoothly.

Can anyone tell me why there are two of us up front anyway? After all I can fly perfectly well on my own and never make mistakes!

KT

[hardcase]

hi Liftman,

lifestyle is getting better, we have/are recruiting lots of new FO's, to take the pressure of us. We have been working 3 weeks a month. There are also upgrades happening at the moment. Salary is good, especially when the per diems are added in at the end of the month. Its night freight so you either like it or not. We do nice routes, stay in nice hotels and majority of the guys are good guys. There are new routes coming up and we just got delivery of another 72, with more on the way....


2 ATR pilots have been lucky enough to transfer to the Herc (one captain and one FO) both will be left hand seat.

HC

[quazz]

Hi Pablo
I've been at aurigny for a while now and have pretty much enjoyed every minute of it. A few ups and downs here and there but that is the same as any company you will work for.

It's true that flying is a bit limited for FO's right now but you should still be able to rack up between 4 to 5 hundred hours a year.

Guernsey is a nice place to live. It has (usually) good summers and mild winters, the flying is challenging at times (30kts crosswinds in 550 meters vis coming into guernsey at times) but the roster is more or less stable (5 on 2 off, 4 on 2 off) so you can usually predict your days off with just the occasional change to the pattern.

As for GR600, I think someone is trying to stitch up one of our captains for the 2nd time on this website. :=

[Lightheart]

The Auringy website states that the Shorts 360 is still in use. What condition are these in? Are they used for pax or cargo?

[Bad Robot]

Knee Trembler, Are you "Lord Flash Hearts" Alter ego? ;)

BR.

[Lightheart]

They don't have anymore. Just spoke to them.

[buffalowing]

Hi Pablo,
Sorry to see your post has been hi-jacked by GR600 and turned into a window into his psyche. (Very entertaining).
Don't bother working for GR unless you can't get anything else.
As a company they are going nowhere fast and are deep in debt even after their small profit this year. Job security is an oxymoron in GR. (See 2004/2005 debacle).
Guernsey is a beautiful place but very isolated not just literally. It is VERY expensive to live there, the tax thing helps but they're in the process of introducing a kind of VAT that'll go on everything making things even more expensive.
If you want to build up your hours you'll regret making the effort of moving there etc.
I did work for them and saw the place deteriorate it was time for me to leave and the job market was right too.
If you do end up going to live in Guernsey you will enjoy some things there, it is quite unique, unfortunately GR is not one of those things IMHO.
There are alot of other options out there.
Oh and another thing, Aurigny does not MEAN Alderney in French. It is Alderney's original Norman-French name.
GR 600 you cringemeister...

[GR600]

Guernsey is a nice place to live. It has (usually) good summers and mild winters, the flying is challenging at times (30kts crosswinds in 550 meters vis coming into guernsey at times)


Are you by any chance one of those F/Os who keep saying that the ATR is a difficult aircraft to land in crosswind ?
May I ask you something? : Is the ATR really difficult to land, or is it the F/O the one that just cannot land it ?


lightheart, sorry, we do not operate Shorts anymore.

Cheerio ;)

[GR600]

As a company they are going nowhere fast and are deep in debt even after their small profit this year. Job security is an oxymoron in GR. (See 2004/2005 debacle).

Aurigny Air Services is more than 40 years old...
We are the proudness of the channel Islands.

So long.

[Carl Rawson]

Hi Pablo,
Quazz is absolutely right in what he says. He's a very experienced FO and knows what he's talking about.
I have been with Aurigny (GR) now since last November and barring the odd hicup and disappointment I have to say that I thoroughly enjoy the job and find it very challenging.
I don't think thus far that anyone has told you how to apply to the company. The best way is to put a letter together with your c.v. and email it to DavidRice at Aurigny.com and GunCarlsson at Aurigny.com.
I guarantee that you will get a reply from both. Gun sends standard replies but David Rice who is the Chief Pilot is a thoroughly decent chap, approachable chap who always replies out of politeness whether in the positive OR negative regardless.
If you are successful then I can guarantee you a challenging first few months going through your training but ALL the Training Captains are top blokes and very good at their jobs.
As for the comments of GR600 I understand the sentiments but think that airing them is less than diplomatic and unbecoming of an airline Captain. I'm pretty sure as Quazz says that they don't come from the Captain that they are made to like they do. In fact I had a go around with this Captain not too long ago an found him to be an absolute brick. He was calm and encouraging and it was only when I asked him to take the landing did he take control.
As for the sentiments then I always end my brief by saying. "You are the Captain. If there's any aspect of my flying that you are unhappy with then you can call 'I have control!' and you can call for any further actions that may be required." Some may find it condescending but I think that it lays down the command structure in the cockpit but where do you end? It goes without saying that if for some strange reason the Captain decides that he is going to endanger the aircraft or do something illegal then it's my aircraft once again and we'll talk about it on the ground over a coffee and tapes.
Incidentally do you have an ATR72 type rating Pablo? You'll need one for the job and you'll have to pay for it. If you are a UK resident then try SKYBLUE aviation in Exeter.

[buffalowing]

And You must be the "proudness" of Aurigny GR600!

We all want to join GR just so we can learn from you!:}

Can you spell CRM?