BALPA 2007 EOC Conference

[MrHorgy]

All,

Tried to do a search but couldn't come up with anything regarding this years EOC Conference at LHR. Show of hands who's going?

Just been reading through the 2006 thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=240791&highlight=BALPA+Conference) and seems to be quite a mixed bag of what people got out of it - I'm not going there with any expectations, but if I go with a wedge of CV's is it likely any operators are going to take them? I've got my beady eye on one or two, what are other peoples thoughts on this? Are people gonna be in their ties and suits?

Also, more importantly, is anyone staying afterwards for a beer? :ok:

Horgy

[rwhites]

sorry £60 just to hand out your CV:eek:

[Rob's Dad]

£60 is steep but it's peanuts compared to what I've spent to get this far. Also, I've been told that if I were to do a FI rating I would need 5 hours P1 SE in the last 6 months before starting the course. As the 70 odd hours I have are all ME, to my mind the EOC is cheaper than even qualifying for an FI rating let alone paying for the course and accepting a reduced salary at the other end. And as they say with the lottery "you've got to be in it to win it". But then you are only slightly more likely to be struck by lightning 3 times than you are to win the lottery jackpot, whereas the odds of getting that first job are .......:}

[charlie copeland]

As a thrusting, keen wannabe about to embark on an integrated course, would it be beneficial to attend the BALPA EOC conference OR is it simply more of an opportunity for newbies to throw around their CV's and network in the hope of getting that elusive first job?

I have had a look on the website which says it is for members only. Does an integrated course entitle you to associate trainee membership?

PLUS Received this Fast Jet aptitude test today: The object of the game is to move the red block around without getting hit by the blue blocks or touching the black walls- 2 minutes is required to earn yourself a look in at selection with USAF!!
http://tinyurl.com/56t9u (http://tinyurl.com/56t9u)

[Canada Goose]

I survived 0.351 seconds - so I guess I'm f^%$£* !!! :O

[Frank Furillo]

I'm going and wearing a nice Black leather outfit, last used in Pulp Fiction:\:\:\:\

[FMSData]

Charlie, I'm commencing the Integrated course at Cabair on November 2nd I have Trainee membership with BALPA. It's free but you need to prove your course dates etc.. Speak to Maggie at BALPA.

Also, more to the point, I'm attended the EOC as I'm sure I will learn about the industry and have a chance to speak to reps from the airlines. I have been told that it is smart casual. I will wearing smart shirt etc. (no tie - may bring one!).

What Integrated course you on?

FMS

[Tiny Tango]

That aptitude test is seriously addictive...but then again, i am rather easily entertained..!

I'm still undecided about the EOC...

[Gingerbread Man]

22 seconds. Pass me my F-15 keys.

[stue]

I think for anyone wanting to get a job within the next few years it would be good to go. I’m going, £60 is a bit steep but you never know, it just may be worth it. I have no problem with paying for it.

Now then, did someone say beer afterwards.....................?:E

[FMSData]

25 seconds.. pass me my F-16 keys :ok:

Beer sounds good! Would like to meet some of you guys for a beer but I imagine most like to hide behind their alias..

FMS

[charlie copeland]

i think after hearing about the fierce competition for jobs(and seeing just how many low hours guys are at the conference) a little light refreshment may well be in order!!!

FMSData, good time but not quite topping my 26 seconds just yet!!! i might get in touch with the USAF, all the same, to see if this qualifies me for multi's instead!!!

i have a place booked with OAT in February so will try and get BALPA associate membership for the conference. shirt and tie for me, hear so much about importance of networking; not what you know it's who you know etc etc!!

[MrHorgy]

I would like a beer afterwards as well. Not for the alcohol of course, or the social, but to strengthen and improve my CRM skills in an unfamiliar enviroment with new people.

*cracks out Vodka*

Horgy

[MrHorgy]

Oh, Behold the mighty 32 seconds!!

Horgy

[FMSData]

32.. damn! must be my mouse :ok:

Might have to arrange a meet up for the CRM skill test

FMS

[FMSData]

Can't get higher than 27 at the moment. :ugh:

[daisy bender]

I shall be there, plus two others who don't really post on here.

I think it has to be worth it; why wouldn't you do everything in your power to get a job? I have been to similar conferences and witnessed some people network their way into job opportunities (opportunity being the important word there; still have to pass the interview of course). :ok:

Unfortunately now in aviation that word 'opportunity' normally means spending money! :{ Still lets hope it's worth it.

I will be in a suit, as will the others with me I imagine.

See you there
db

[matt_hooks]

I'll also be there, with a few others from Cabair at Cranfield. I shall be driving, so my beer consumption will be exactly nil, but more than pleased to have a drink with you all.

And as I'm not hiding behind my nick I should be easy to spot!

Just look for the receding hairline and expensive suit! :}

[The Otter's Pocket]

19.516 (about attempt no 12) Move directly south. Then Top Left - this will give you about 11 secs.
Then Bottom Left and then Top right I think. It seriously speeds up after 15 Secs.

[charlie copeland]

yep, this indeed is the problem with this aptitude test. it is supposed to be an inate test of ability but, your performance can be significantly increased with practise since there appears to be no random component (not in the 26s i've lasted anyway!!!!). I would think, given that it takes a few goes to get used to it, you can only achieve a fair result in the first 10-15 attempts!!

having tried it on the laptop and pc i was surprised to find it subtanially easier in the laptop!!

it seems cabair will be well represented at EOC so look forward to meeting you all for that PPRUNE CRM seminar in the bar afterwards ;)

[FMSData]

I am starting the Integrated course at Cabair on 2nd November so look forward to speaking to your guys. If I can find you!

I am going this year as a means for information and gathering contacts within the industry. I will probably attend next year as I would have just about finished my course.

FMS

[FMSData]

Is there information to collect from airline stands or is it all verbal?

Any advice for someone who is about to start training and therefore not in an immediate position to start looking for a job but still wants to get the most out of the day?

Thanks

FMS

[BlueRobin]

I have a cunning plan about the entrance fee, so I may be going if nothing else to get my bum into gear by 1. forcing myself to do a CV beforehand so getting it completed and 2. start talking to people.

Can we have a show of hands of PPRuNers who are going please?

[lebroix]

FMS Data - would strongly recomend you go. Its ideal for someone in your position; someone who is just starting training and is some time away from job hunting as the day is more geared to information gathering rather than getting interviews.

My experience of the 2005 EOC was that the information you get will allow you to start planning job hunting for when the time comes, but it is not so great if you are midway though job hunting process and hoping to network your way into an interview chair.

The information deleivered at the presentations was all fairly similar from every airline "we have recruited fully for this year, and next year's low hours FOs will come from an arrangement we have with CTC/Oxford/FTE". (to put this into context, the airline that eventually offered me a job about 6 weeks later swore blind at the EOC that all vacancies for the year were full!)

Afterward the presentations you get to meet the guys in charge of recuitment at the airlines on a one to one basis. This is the point when most people aim to **dazzle** the airline reps and swing an interview. No doubt this can happen, but most of the airline reps I met had long queues of people all eager to impress so the reps had their defences correspondingly high.

To summarise; great for someone at groundschool stage who is looking at who to eventuslly target when the time comes, and what criteria these people will be after, not so good if you are hoping to outshine the hundreds of other low hours guys and make an impression.

Either way, good luck with the job hunting.

[no sponsor]

I went to the conference last year, and used it as a good opportunity to ask lots of questions to various chief pilots and recruiters regarding Type Ratings and routes into airlines. I had the Flybe man look at my CV and give me some advise on its content which was useful. I also had a chat with the boss of BAs recruitment man, as well as chatting with a few other wannabes. Last years conference was full of military guys wanting to go to civvy street, and a whole bunch of low houred chaps.
I'm not going this year, since I'm not looking to move on from my current employer, but this is my advise to get the most out of it:
1) Wear a suit. I didn't last year, and went in a shirt and chinos and felt a bit of a plonker.
2) Identify which company you want to speak to early on, and while everyone is getting their lunch, head for the stand you most want a job from, and importantly, make sure it's the people who are hiring your type of experience. If you leave it too late, the queues get huge and you end up waiting for 1-2 hrs to talk. Have your lunch a bit later. Balpa do a good job of identifying who is after low-houred guys. Last year it was Jet2 (my current employer) and BMI-baby. Leave Virgin, Cathay, China Airlines etc to the guys with experience, and when they are empty go and have your chat about the industry and get their thoughts.
3) Mingle. If your not the mingling type, remember you paid good money to be there....
4) When you do get to the front of the queue, have your greeting, banter and first question ready.
:ok:

[FMSData]

Many thanks for all the great info!

Good luck to all.

FMS

[Dreamshiner]

Not ideal if you have a desire to fly a Boeing that both XL and Jet2 aren't attending. They traditionally aren't adverse to the low houred.

[jamestkirk]

The question to ask is how many new F/ATPL'rs people who attended actually got an interview/job from the experience.

I am not convinced its of any real use for low houred no experience people.

I also think its a money maker for BALPA. Did someone mention £60!

How about making it free to people looking for their first job/still in training.

[portsharbourflyer]

It is of very limited use the EOC. Bearing in mind that as most airlines have switched to on line application forms (e.g. Flybe) then you will find there is only about two or three operators there that will take CVs from non-airline experienced / low hour pilots; the queue to hand in your CV at these will be several hours long.

[dartagnan]

poor guys!!, this balpa conference is mainly used for airlines to see how desperate we are, and base on that they can level up or down their selections and T & C .

you may think it is used to find and see pilots like a road show,no it is not, with hundred of CV coming every month on their desk, do you think they need to do extra work at this Balpa conference.

so why do they come?answer: to sell their training program. Yes airlines now get a bonus each time they send students to a TRTO.Airline are not only a company but a company affiliated to TRTO.

by boycotting this, you save time and a udge amount of money that could be used for stamps and telephone calls.

I boycotted them, and I have even canceled by Balpa membership, and now I have 1 airline who want see me, and 2 other airlines in these coming months.How did I get these interviews, I sent them my CV. that's all.

recently I have been in a big big meeting for corporate jets , I paid 60 quids, for this money I talked to some persons, jumped in cockpit planes during 2 days and I have had lot of fun(there were 30-40 planes on the tarmac)and of course I gave my CV.

[dougy24]

Bit shortsighted cancelling your membership, even if you dont want to go to the conference, Balpa, as I am sure you are aware is not just about finding people jobs (or rather should I say running conferences etc)...however thats your choice...just my thoughts.

Dougy

[FMSData]

Did everybody last year wear suits? Reason I am asking is have never needed a suit as I have mainly been in education! I was going to start my 'collection' when I completed my ATPL next year but would you guys recommend getting one for the EOC?

I don't want to feel like an idiot!

Many Thanks

FMS

[BlueRobin]

I will be wearing mine.

[timzsta]

I will be attending. In shirt, tie and jacket.

[MrHorgy]

Seems maybe a bit far to buy a whole suit for the conference, Just wear trousers shirt and tie and you should be ok - looking smart and employable is the aim of the game, not looking like a clone.

Incidentally, I possibly will be trying to offload my ticket for this saturday so if someone wants a ticket PM me - I will accept any reasonable offers unless I can secure a refund.

Horgy

[Chicken Leg]

Do BALPA produce any notes or feedback on the event? I joined BALPA earlier in the year purely to secure a place at this year's EOC. Now I'm stuck in the desert for another week or so and will miss it!

A DVD of the speakers would be great, but not sure it BALPA are that technically advanced!!

[FMSData]

Thanks guys, I'll be attending in my Shirt and Tie!

So I should be easy to find if anyone wants a beer after! - atleast I'll stand out in the employer's eyes!

FMS

[dartagnan]

this year, only bikinis are accepted!
pilots in tanga have more chance to land an airline job on jets!

[BlueRobin]

I think you have made your feeling known D about the EOC. Why continue? :rolleyes:

Or is it per chance that you just incessantly troll here?

[The Otter's Pocket]

Tanga

What?
Tanzania
or
Tanga (carriage), a kind of horse drawn carriage used in the Indian subcontinent

Not sure what your getting at Dogtanian.

[sick_bag]

evening all,
has anyone got a job or even an interview out of this conference in the past? I guess those folks might not be reading this thread, however...

if its worthwhile, that would be great, but i dont want to spend 60 bucks plus petrol plus my saturday to stand in long lines of people being told no you cant fly for us because you havent got 20,000hrs flying the space shuttle! you can get that infojust by applying online!:}

also, i'd like to know what the real reason for the conference is.

[Caudillo]

A tanga is a g-string.



Girls wear them.

[BlueRobin]

There will be 15-20 odd Airlines doing their respective presentations up to lunchtime, with a break for coffee which I think is paid for? During and after lunch, the stands will be manned. Where else sickbag can you speak to the airlines direct and assess their latest situation? I get the feeling the £60 is an issue here? Fortunately I have a nice line in printing bent £60 notes :) Make the best out of it. Any information will imo focus the mind toward the goal, which is why I went to the free PPRuNe seminar. But then if you have had all the advice and have been applying since forever, will you get anything out of it?

[FMSData]

£60 notes!? Sounds weird :bored:

[MrHorgy]

I'd ignore dartagnan, he's just another A320rider in disguise.

I've just secured a refund on my ticket (begrudgingly) as I have a sim in the morning which won't finish until 1. Anyone who wants to let me know how it goes would be most appreciated :)

Horgy

[BlueRobin]

Wilco Mr H.

I will likely be in a navy blue stripy suit with a small PPRuNe lapel badge and sat at or near the front for the presentations. Come say hello.

[FMSData]

I'll be the guy without a suit (but very smartly dressed) because I dont own one yet! A suit is on my list to get after my training!

See you guys tomorrow..

FMS

[HadEnough]

So..... after that enthralling day are we all depressed yet?

I think taxi driver is a fine occupation anyway!!!

[ford cortina]

Truth, well I spent over £300 to go, hotel, drive down etc.... What I heard was this:
I don't have enough hours/experience for Virgin/ Etihad/ Emirates.
BA and others want integrated students.

Only two 737 operators there, I don't count BA as they will not look at you under 1000 hrs on type and they are not looking at recruiting at this moment in time.
Keep persisting and trying as you will make it, durrrrrr:ugh:
Nothing I did not already know or am doing.
Waste of time and money

[BlueRobin]

To be fair, you could have not done so a lot cheaper?

Did you not try BMi Regional, FlyBe and DHL? They are more welcoming toward lower houred pilots.

And if there is one person worth speaking to there, it is Maggie at BALPA. :)

The conference (my first) seems to be twofold. 1. letting you know exactly what is going on at the major companies from the horses mouth or via BALPA 2. Giving you an appreciation of what BALPA is about and what they can do for you.

Sorry Mr Horgy, couldn't get any notes. I had my hands full... Any specific questions, shout out and I'll see if I can remember.

[MrHorgy]

Blue,

Thanks anyway, I had more fun in my sim :P

Ford Cortina seems to have summed up most of what I thought they might say, oh how I can't wait for the intergrated marketing machine to fall apart (note NOT the students, just the gloss) then maybe we'll level the playing field more.

Horgy

[timzsta]

A worthwhile day I thought as I have set myself a target position to be in in 12 months time when things are thought to be more promising.

Was amazed at how many low hours Oxford/Cabair guys and girls where there who hadn't got a job since finishing in recent months. Was also amazed I met only 2 other Flying Instructors. Quite a few military guys there who may well have been dissuaded from leaving for the time being.

My plan is by this time next year to have over 1000 hours and within that a couple hundred multi IFR.

[ford cortina]

To be absolutely fair to BALPA, my union, they put on a good event.

However watching BA and Emirates point score and show us that lovely photo of a A380, or even a 787 is not my idea of fun.

I have no bias toward BALPA or any of the companies there, I did get to speak to one or two people but I found the experience to be rather a let down.
Just to sum up the cost issue.....
BALPA EOC Charge £60.
Fuel cost in my Car £140.
Hotel (as I did not wish to be all bleary eyed) £100.
IF I had go the train, apart from the time involved it would have cost me £150.

BlueRobin I do not have any problem with you and noticed that you were helping out, good for you, if It gets you a job then thats great.

Regionals are not going to offer me a job, because once I have a better offer on a 737 I am bound to leave! Similar with DHL, as I have no real intention of undertaking yet another Type Rating.

The event was well organised and managed, it is not BALPA's fault that the Big Companies were well represented, it just would have been nice to see people from other Loco's, like Easy and Jet 2 even if they were, which they are not at the moment, recruiting in high numbers.

Edited to add, sorry about it all being bunched up together but for some reason i cannot put paragraphs in, maybe it's the wine!

[BlueRobin]

Hmm iirc Easy and Jet2 cancelled, hence the early finish :(

[acebaxter]

As I look at LCC's does anyone know for a fact which one BALPA was refering to in regards to the fuel leak vs no contract renewal?

Thanks

[BlueRobin]

"R" ;) you serious? I suspect it is one that like to "harp" on a lot.

[philltowns]

Ummm, I don't think it was

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=297115

[BlueRobin]

Jim iirc said it was a fuel leak? Interesting if it is FBE.

[Orvil]

Hi All,
I thought the day was very informative and it lifted my spirits up after listening to the Guy's who made it. Especially the poor sod who broke is leg and was dropped twice from airline sponsorship schemes (nothing to do with him).

I've come away with a plan and a time scale which would of been impossible to do without yesterday.

Big thanks to BALPA !

Orvil

[Chicken Leg]

Can somebody post a quick summary of what each airline had to say please. From what I can gather from the above posts, it isn't quite a rosy as perhpas some of us (including myself) thought.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get back from the desert in time to go myself, so any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Dreamshiner]

Here's my 2 cents worth. I echo Cortina's and Horgy's sentiments.

Yes I attended, yes I started a thread on here questioning how much it cost and got a lot of abuse, do I feel vindicated after what I seen and heard there? Pretty much.

Heres a few talking points maybe worth addressing:

95% of the attendees had little to no experience after achieving their CPL/IR - Globespan, Monarch (do these two recognise BALPA? - unsure)Jet2, Easy and XL don't attend while Emirates/Etihad etc. do (Did anyone else roll their eyes at talk of 'its a great place to live, amazing benefits, and all you need to have is 4,000 hours') In terms of addressing the needs of the vast number in the audience, I can't help but feel that BALPA missed the mark on this. By hook or by crook they should have been there.

There was no need for the lunch for the delegates, for the speakers, if it encourages them to attend, well then yes, of course, a minor bit of hospitality for them for what is a long day.

What purpose do Flyer Magazine (under the auspices of thier publisher) have and why do they have a presence there?

I really do wonder what the two ME Airlines gained from attending appart from a little kudos and brownie points with BALPA, both said they needed pilots, I'd be interested out of what 350? attendees how many CV's they took between them.

Someone during the Q&A session asked about what BALPA made of foreign pilots coming into the UK market. I think the panel missed what was asked by and large however Maggie did have some pertinent points, namely:

We speak English, language of the air is English therefore it makes the industry here (with 27 EU countries and Commonwealth Citizens on ancestory visas) a big draw.

Airlines do have commercial pressures, I understand that, but bringing in Foreign contract pilots to take the strain in our busy periods surely stifles homegrown talent getting onto the ladder and makes the transition to LHS for UK pilots that little bit harder.

I can count a number of examples where other country CAA/Governments actively block hiring or put barriers in the way to make it tricky to hire non-nationals, obviously they have to be clever how they do this to avoid lawsuits but it does happen. I can't speak for him but I took what the questioner was asking was if a lot of other nations are doing this why are we not taking action to promote the talent already here and champing at the bit to get flying.

Sorry if that offends any Saffers, Canucks, Ozzies or Kiwi's.

Ultimately, half the airlines - you couldn't approach because of requirements, another 25% had a freeze on hiring for the time, the only ones that were doing anything where those who had the big snakey queues.

The outcome for me:

Confirmed by the president, UK market, despite growth is currently stagnant, jobs are out there but involves Asia, Far East.

Mergers of 4 into 2 and two takeovers has meant this summer has been all about consolodation and restructing (i.e. no hiring).

And for newbies out there, many CP's can't see by a integrated school which is dissapointing.

If I was starting again I'd aim for CTC, however I think the current format will change in the year ahead just due to commercial pressures.

[BlueRobin]

FLYER weren't an exhibitor, they helped run the conference.

[Happy Wanderer]

Have to say that I found the JOC (my first) to be a very low key affair and a bit of a disappointment, particularly given what was billed beforehand and the £60 entrance fee.

Proceedings didn't get off to a particularly good start in my view - to be told in the welcoming presentation that a number of the airlines (Jet 2, EasyJet, XL and BACX) listed as attending had cancelled at the last minute and wouldn't therefore be appearing and that two (BA and FlyBe) had to leave early, rather set the tone for the rest of the day for me.

Emirates and BA's presentations were largely sales pitches for their respective companies and both started their presentations by admitting their that their pilot recruitment plans probably wouldn't apply to the vast majority of the audience, ie low-hour pilots.

Virgin Atlantics's presentation was delegated by their HR Manager to a young FO called Andy. He was pretty amusing, but nothing could disguise VA's key message which was "we're currently not recruiting...."

I did wonder why FlightSafety Farnborough were pitched as early as second in the list of presentations given that they were looking for experienced training staff and instructors, ie "with a flying career behind them" - probably not quite what the the majority of the audience were looking for.

The formal part of the day (ie the presentations) would have finished about an hour early had it not been for an impromtu discussion session hosted by the BALP reps before lunch. I thought this was the most useful part of the day and prompted a number of questions from the floor.

The informal session ('meet the airlines') was probably useful for some folks, but I came away thinking that anyone who had done their homework beforehand probably wouldn't have heard anything new.

The key messages from the day were as already mentioned, the main one being that due to carrier consolidation and and some fragmentation of operations (EasyJet bases in Madrid and Italy were cited as examples of this) 'pilot recruitment in the UK will be flat for the next 12 months or so'.

HW

[Dreamshiner]

It was never suggested flyer was an exhibitor, I asked why they were there. I used to organise events from half the size of Saturday to Earl's Court/Olympia milarky, I can't see why any other organisation was required to help out.

It's a repeat event, second, the hardest bit from what I could see was the AV (handled by the hotel), organising comp hotel rooms for speakers and getting 20 powerpoint presentations in advance so they could be uploaded to one laptop - chasing people up for that can be a nightmare.

The cost was excessive and the amount/caliber of employers available for the majority of the audience was sadly lacking. Etihad, great to have you, I'm excited about 'dynamic and exciting' Abu Dhabi, but 4.5 years + time from now till first job before we can even get a sniff, no offence I'll target BA and Virgin well in advance of that caveat.

Do the maths, £60 x 300 (conservative) = £18,000 + 25 now shows £2,000 = £20k all in, notwithstanding BALPA membership subscriptions at 0 for those in current training to £2 a month from the unemployed or you can't even get a ticket.

It was suggested to me by a moderator no less that very little if anything would be made. I disagreed then and I do so again now even more adamently after attending.

Also the sales pitch from Oxford at the end should have been an opt in rather than manditory.

Dissapointed from the group meant to be looking out for us.

[Happy Wanderer]

I've also previously been involved in organising these sorts of events, and a day-delegate rate of £60 is expensive, even for London.

The Oxford Aviation Training slot at the end of the formal session was originally billed as a 'seminar' - I was expecting a lot more in terms of input, hints and tips on airline selection processes and preparation for interview etc, rather than an overview of the OAT course which is what we got here.

HW

[ford cortina]

Oxford were not going to give any of their Secrets away!!!!!!! After all you can get lots of information regarding specific airline selection procedures elsewhere.
After talking to my sister, who is a event organiser with a very large and well known concert promoter, I tend to agree with the view that it was a tad expensive.
Still you live and learn

[bigjarv]

For what it is worth, I am an instructor with 950 hours and I got a job out of the day. Start on the 19th of Nov. Hooooooooray and at bloody last! It was obviously worth the £60 for me and a nice motivator for what I can expect later in my career. Gives a good insight into the industry as well. Mind you, I do always tend to try and see the positives in things. Works for me!!

Good luck all!

[south coast]

How about you tell us who you got a job with from the day?