A question for AG pilots

[Silvio Pettirossi]

I have a question to you AG pilots, here in Paraguay we are having a very dry winter with very little rain and lots of fires at the many cattle farms. This is a big problem for the people I fly for.
Would it be possible to fight this low grass fires by just filling up a standard AG plane with water and spray the fires at the highest flow-rate? Would that be enough to put the fires out? Is this being done somewhere?
Thanks for your help!:ok:

[Makaya]

It's actually the way it's done. Not with small plane like pawnees.
But with larger aircraft you can take smal size fire out.

Obviously, you don't spray them. Get the mix box out and put a large dump gate for better efficiency.
If you have money, go for an AT 802. But agcat work just fine...

[currawong]

A conventional dump door will do it.

Test it on an open piece of country first. (without fire, obviously)

You might find you can damp down 200m by 5m in something like an Agwagon.

In grass this has an impact. Drop just ahead of the flames.

As for spraying at high volumes? The volume would have to be pretty high - saturation high, maybe 300 - 400 lt/ha. But I stand to be corrected.

Good luck.

[Silvio Pettirossi]

Thanks for your replies, they are very useful!
Maybe the fire damages can be reduced this way. (there are about 16000 fires around the country, apart from destroying precious grass, they are filling the air with fumes, reducing visibility to about 1000 to 4000m, we are flying around here solid IFR in the sunshine!:sad:)

[SNS3Guppy]

With a standard dump gate, you can do something, but hitting a fireline isn't the same as spraying a field, especially in terrain. Water is relatively ineffective, for the most part, espeically if the fire is of any size and you don't have a very close reload base or a lot of aircraft hitting the fire. This is particularly critical in a wind driven fire (grass with wind can be a fast, explosive proposition), or a fire in terrain when the burn will climb uphill rapidly (with, or without wind).

To be of any use, a minimum of 500 gallons should be available on the aircraft, and a much more effective use is the 802 with it's standard 700-800 gallon load of water, foam, or retardant. A gate system designed for the job, rather than just a dump gate, is preferable, as is an adequate tank venting system. A hopper can be cracked or broken by lack of adequate venting during a drop. the ability to tailor the drop pattern and coverage level (fluid quantity for a given area on the ground) is crucial. In grass, for example, a lesser coverage level is warranted, and is the best way to make the most of the limited load you have.

Dropping improperly is something to be avoided. The inexperienced pilot will try to hit the head of the fire, but without adequate foam or retardant, th fire will burn around what's dropped, and it will be split, compounding control problems. Using terrain and natural firebreaks, as well as proper tactcs is necessary to do any good. Water tends to do little good. Wet water or foam is better, but not by much, and retardant or gel is best...but unavailable in many areas. Water is largely ineffective except to take some of the heat out of a fire in fuels much larger than grass or light brush...you can knock the flames down, but they come right back. Creating a barrier it can't pass, or modifying the fire's behavior is what's required, rather than merely trying to put the fire out.

Yes, aircraft can be very effective, including single engine air tankers, but it really is a matter of working smart. A standard dump door on the average spray airplane is better than nothing, but not by much. Using spray booms would be all but wastefu.

[Silvio Pettirossi]

Thanks for your help SNS3Guppy:ok:

[Makaya]

Check that :
www.flyingmakaya.com/videos/Bambi1i.avi
I fu:mad:ing miss my ag-cat...

[westernlarrikin]

The Department of Environment and Conservation in Western Australia has the best run and effective bush fire response program that I have seen utlising AT802's AT602's and Drom's to fight fires in some pretty remote terrain. Being government run seems to be the better option with out the fighting over overspending of budgets versus loss of private assets. Check out the Dunn Aviation website in Australia. They are the contrator supplying aircraft and pilots for the Fire season. Only downside to agcats is response time between pickup point and fire zone. Hope this helps.

WLKN:ok: