Life, schedule and money at BA?

[smiledude]

To get a better picture of BA, before starting their selection I would like to know more about their exact rostering, and sallary. Under the subject how much did you take home this month, it didn't came out clear what you get paid, and how your sallary will increase.
Is it also possible to enter at the 777?
presently I'am flying for a dutch charter for net 1700 pounds as a B767 FO.

Does any BA pilot has those answers for me please?
Thanks

[noblues]

Goodanavon smiledude !
Hoe gaat het ?

I'm a BA DEP who used to work for a Dutch carrier ......

Average take home with allowances is around £2900 per month, (I have had as much as £3250).
Pay jumps significantly at 5 year point, I hear Senior FO's on long haul averaging well over £4200.

You will start on shorthual (probably A320, but maybe 767 or 737).

Initial type freeze is 5 years (NO bond!), then 4 years subsequentley. (could then move to 777, 744 etc ).

Very good final salary pension gives 1/52th of final salary for each year worked, can raise this to 1/45th.

Very good seniority based bidding system for rosters each month, tend to get days off or trips wanted.

Very impersonal, 3500 pilots, rigid flying rules (not encouraged to manual fly or raw data stuff).

BA is a solid company, it will be here in 30 years time where as other airlines may not.
Good bunch of crews, good crew meals, high standard of hotels and a very strong pilots union .....
You could do a lot worse .....

TOT ZEINS !


[This message has been edited by noblues (edited 09 March 2001).]

[smiledude]

Bedankt for answering noblues.

1 more question.

Is it with the schedules on the A320 or 737/ 767 possible to start out of Amsterdam? if not, make the schedules it possible to commute out of AMS easely without having an apt. in LHR?

[This message has been edited by smiledude (edited 10 March 2001).]

[noblues]

smiledude :

We do have some Dutch FO's who commute from AMS. Most of BA's shorthaul involves 'tours' (nighstops) some of which are up to 4 nights away. But you will end up with the odd day flight in your roster, plus when you start a tour on an early you will have to come over the night before.

Its the 74/76 that does the LHR-AMS at the moment, but next year I think the A320 will be operating it as well. Although you could ask for a preference for AMS trips and nighstops, in BA you will never get a full roster of these trips .... maybe a few nights in AMS per month ...

BA has a lot of crew's who commute to work by air (probably 30% of long haul crews do).

I am contemplating moving back to NL myself, the plus point is that the route is very well serviced by BA/ British Midland and KLM.
But you should resign yourself to a few nights per month in a hotel at LHR.
(BA stby ticket LHR-AMS-LHR around £45)

Their are 'rooms' in houses run by crews as a business across the road from the report centre, these are around £25 per night (clean, self catering place).

On long haul with mostly later reports and only around 4 trips per month no problem, but resign yourself to up to 4-7 nights per month in the UK on shorthaul to start with.

A room in a shared house say in Windsor or London will cost around £350 per month.
Your own appartment around £600-£750.

Do you work for Martinair ????

Good Luck !

[Gentleman Aviator]

Sorry to interupt his thread (very interesting responses, particularly about the Short-Haul 'tours')

May I ask as to why you both perceive BA to be preferable to KLM? My impressions of KLM have always been very favourable, so I am a little surprised that you would choose BA.

This is not intended as a 'dig' at BA. I am leaving the military in the next couple of years and am trying to get a better understanding of the various major airlines in Europe, before I start my applications.

Many thanks,
GA

[noblues]

Gentleman Aviator : KLM mainline is a very 'senior' airline.
You start as a 'Co-Co pilot' or cruise pilot on a heavey, then go RH seat short haul, before taking either a shorthaul command or RH seat long haul.

KLM has a 'glut' of pilots at the moment, it is extreemly difficult to get into (not to say BA isn't either, but a bit more practical), and if selected you get put in a hold pool, similar to BA.
KLM's pool has hardly moved in years ...

BA has 1000 pilots to retire over the next 5 years out of 3500 total.
So, with BA carreer progression is a real factor, you could have a LHR shorthaul command in that time, or a regional command within 2-3 years.

Airlines are all about seniority.
Plus as a junior FO in KLM living in NL (paying 60% tax) you will take home a fraction of what you would with BA.

Not to say KLM isn't a good airline, I flew for a subsiduary of them and saw a lot of the KLM operation and crews, great set up and working enviroment .... but no expansion or retirment bulge .... unlike BA.

At the end of the day, long term, you will never go wrong working any flag carier, athough proogression will be slower than a charter or low cost operator your somewhat more secure and the perks (staff travel, pension, loss of licence insurance, family health cover etc ) are all thrown in. PLUS you will not be subject to roster distruption and can plan your life.

With both BA and KLM the unions are extreemly strong ....

[Gentleman Aviator]

Many thanks for the swift reply....60% tax?!!

That alone would answer my question!

[smiledude]

noblues, yes I'am flying for Martinair.
You? flew for Transavia?
would you maybe answer on my email address your phone number, I have lots of questions left?

Gentleman Aviator, you should know this...
At KLM as noblues explaned you start as co-co pilot sitting behind the radio ( yeah!)above FL200. the next step, copilot 737 will take at this moment +/- 5 years.
nobody feels good five years doing sh*it , sick percentage is +/- 20 % under this group in the klm.

[This message has been edited by smiledude (edited 12 March 2001).]

[ETOPS]

Noblues

Sorry to butt in .....

I couldn't let your comment about our operation go uncorrected for those reading about BA. As a 757/767 Captain I fly all departures manually up to around FL200 or until boredom makes me engage the right auto-pilot. Most arrivals in CAT 1 are flown manually when I am PF and if it's my leg and traffic permits I will rip off one of my expiditous visual approaches. The same goes for the majority of our F/O's (which fleet are you on?) I have seen a number of manually flown raw data arrivals recently and all I can say is they were all very impressive!!

For all would-be BA pilots I must emphasise that a lot of what you here about BA is false. This is the best airline I have ever worked for and most of the crews are really nice people. With 3500 pilots there will be the odd one who can be difficult but they are the exception. And sometimes you get lucky on a nightstop.........

[noblues]

ETOPS : I am not on the 75/76 fleet, but it has been said I dont have much between my legs !

I joined from spending numerous years with another airline where it was routine to practice raw navaid departures (on EFIS in ROSE mode), or as you say visual or raw data approaches ....

I find the culture different on my fleet in BA, if in good met conditions I say I am going to fly a manual thrust raw data approach the majority of Capt's look at me with a glazed look and a 'what you wana do that for' ....
Maybe its the fleet,

To be fair its much easier for you ETOPS in the LH seat to hand fly without the FO objecting, than it would be the other way around.

I have had some trips with Capts who are all in for 'flying the thing' ....... but regretably they tend to be the exception.
Most hand flying is done with flight directors .... or at the least TRK/FPA.

My fleet has also recently taken away the 'raw data manual thrust' approach's segment from the line training requirments. Its now only to be demonstrated from 1000' lined up and visual on finals .....

I have heard on good authrority that the 777 fleet is 'not allowed' to fly manual thrust under any circumstances.

When it all goes pear shaped I still want to know I can fly the machine .... thats not the time to be practicing.

But, yes despite these minor gripes BA is a good outfit to work for, with excellent crews, and a huge emphasis on CRM and team skills ..... its still the best of the bunch !


[This message has been edited by noblues (edited 12 March 2001).]