Hour Building ... where exactly?

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Hey all,

Thinking of doing some hour building during the winter period, maybe in the USA or else where. Where would you recommend to go where the aircraft are in good condition, scenic and generally quite nice at a reasonable price?

Found this the other day, flying around mountainous areas etc:
http://www.highalpineair.com .... accommodation looks really nice!

I've been told that if I were to go to the USA a licence conversion to FAA is involved and quite a bit of paper work, which may take some time until complete?

Thanks, much appreciated. :ok:

Cirrus

[IRISHPILOT]

Hello,

Have a look at www.bemoair.eu

nice bunch of people and quite affordable (though not as cheap as the US):

Cessnas around 65 pounds., multi around 120 or 130...

And if you have a little spare money at the end, why not get an AN2 checkout!

Scenery stunning and decent English all around.

Not my company, just a happy customer myself.

good luck! IP

[littco]

Have a look at AngloAmerican in Sandiego. Good school, amazing scenery and great flying all very reasonably priced to. The conversion of your license is a doddle. 2 forms, £35, maybe 4-5 weeks waiting and a quick interview in the USA with the FAA, very simple and well worth doing.

I was out there October last year for 4 weeks and had 2 days I couldn't fly due to weather. Accomodation with the school is good and clean.

Well worth a look.

[A and C]

Two weeks ago a contributor on these pages was trying to get some hourbuilding done in the USA but found that the responce from the companys that he talked to was very poor (if they did respond).

The result was a cry for help on these forums for any one who could help him with an aircraft in the UK.
My company had an aircraft avalable and dispite the poor weather over the last two weeks the guy should have another thirty hours in the logbook by Monday.

There are deals to be had on this side of the pond that are not to far removed in price from the USA if you are prepaired to use the aircraft as hard as you would in the USA. You also have to factor in the price of hotels and the ticket to the states to get a realistic flying rate.

Wisely flown a C152 in the UK can come out at £66/hour wet.

[B2N2]

From the website at Alpine Air


Closures
November 1 to February 28

Weather in Florida is nice in the winter time....

http://www.eaa-fly.com/2.0/gallery/lieven_x_ctry/image/nice_reflection.jpg

[XL319]

The UK...if you shop around you can find a good person to hire off for about £60ph

[vigilant_spacey]

try Hub City,

http://www.hubcityaviation.com Im off there in 4 weeks for hour building, based in Lubbock, Texas, with a PA-28 140 from $80 wet (£40), I haven't seen anywhere cheaper, IFR equipped with GPS. And they have a cirrus if you fancy a change, although its a bit more expensive.

[A and C]

The deal at Hub City sonds like a good one and they are to be found in the USA but most of my customers have had problems in the States, that is why they come to me.

When living in the USA I wanted to do a CPL/IR/Multi and this took more than a little setting up the first two companys that I approached failed to get the aircraft in place at the arranged time, I got the impresion that both these outfitts could not run a tap!

When I finaly did get to fly the at the third company that I contacted they were very good but not cheap!

This was not too much of a problem for me as I had no time pressure but would have compleatly destoyed any chance that I would have had of getting the ratings if I had to be back in the UK in three weeks.

Be sure that you compare like with like as Hobbs time and chock to chock time are about 10 min an hour more expensive that being charged Flying time.
Some of the aircraft are junk and should not be flying but it is a bit late to find this out when you are 3000 miles from home and some one has a big wedge of your cash.

In short the headline flying rates in the USA are very good but when you get behind the numbers and add in the airline tickets, hotels, car rental and all the other inncidentals the cost in the UK is not far removed from that in the USA if you do it right and with a few trips to the Channel Islands to bring the cost of the fuel down the "real" cost of flying in the USA can be matched.

[camel toe]

Shame we can't always match the reliability of the weather.

There are many places in the States, Canada and Oz which get 300 + VFR flight days a year, unfortunately as this summer has proved, that big bit of sea to the left can be a pig when she wants to be.

Whilst I have no "proof" as such, I bet if you were to send one pilot to the USA or Canada for 4 weeks, and have one pilot in the UK for 4 weeks, the person who went over the pond would get more hours flown.

Maybe I am just bitter after our summer :rolleyes:

[XL319]

Even with the weather being as it has been, you can still complete roughly 30+ hours in 2 weeks (even with 7/8 days not being able to fly).

The weather here is probably more what you will expect if your a UK pilot as it gives you experience of flying in UK conditions and also experience of UK Air Traffic....AND the UK is full of airspace, so I think it provides some valuable experience instead of "purely" hour building in order to get the hours up.

I've learnt a lot from my hour building in the UK and I feel it has made me a better pilot in both challenges and new experiences.

[vigilant_spacey]

Yes some companies may add to there figures, and yes the weather is a problem globally. But I have been recommended hubcity by a close friend, and have been talking to them on and off for months, very very helpful. Also there are no extras to the price you pay, unless you refuel away from base (as with everywhere, they reimburse you at a slightly lower rate, so you pay a bit extra for really long trips away). But compared to my local flying club who charge £130 for a 172SP, no matter what extras its still less than half price on 100 hours hour building than in the uk, and thats including flights, accomodation, rental car, living expenses.
more $$$$$$$$$ left for the rest of the journey into the right seat.
"....AND the UK is full of airspace" well said - theres absoloutely no airspace in america, or weather. :ugh: At the end of the day as long as you don't do it all in the states, you will gain a lot more by learning in different environments than just the uk. Flight training, despite all of the myths, is not better in the UK. The UKs attitude towards GA ia terrible compared to the US. Im on a bit of a rant now so im gonna quit while im ahead. :ugh:
Out.

[XL319]

I think you were missing my point Vigiliant....America does have airspace (of course it does d'oh), but I've flown in the US and found it was no way as crammed as the UK airspace.

I just feel negotiating different airspaces and the UK RT is a valuable lesson which a new student should have instead of doing it all in the US and not having a clue when they come to the UK.

[A and C]

I am on the whole not sugesting that you should not go to the USA but your posts seem to indicate that you have been given rose tinted glasses for viewing the situation.

The idea of making you do all these hours is for you to learn a bit about flying and more important for you is to be able to retain this knowlage and to be able to draw apon it when things are getting tough and the pressure is on, for instence on your CPL/IR training.

Bashing 100 hours out in one go in the wide open spaces of Texas will not help you for the CPL/IR in EASAland because people simply don't retain much from such intensive flying, this will result in extra training costs at "approves training rates". this is a cost that will only become apparent long after the Texas hoilday in a distant memory.

Far better to go to the USA and do about 50 hours and then return and do the rest of your hour building in Europe just before the CPL/IR course, this way you will be up to speed in the enviroment that you will be tested in.

The Hubb city opperation looks from the website to be one of the better places and if you have a personal recomendation all the better but I guess that the person doing the recomendation is only just ahead of you in flying terms, I have seen this all before and after thirty years and 10,000 hours in the business the old Arab proverbe "Cheap is not so cheap" rings as true today as it did when I started in aviation.

Good luck with your flying but take care who you chose to advise you, bad advice seldom comes cheap!

[Philpaz]

I fully agree that bashing 100 hours out in Arizona/NZ or wherever is probably not as good as doing it in the busy UK but if the Integrated boys (which are looked on so favorably) can do it then why cant we? As long as you do your CPL/IR over here in the traffic then i cant see a problem. You should get all the XP you need doing them. Although i can see that you might find them more difficult without the XP you cant have everything.:hmm:

Phil

[vigilant_spacey]

fair comments,

I can understand that 100 hours bimbling about isn't really much use to anyone except for hour requirements. Luckily, a friend is going along which will allow us to legally do a lot of IR work (under FAA one pilot with Foggles, other as safety pilot, remaining VFR at all times), and also land at many of the bigger airports. I appreciated that the UK can be challenging and has busy airspace, but at the end of the day cost is my main concern. With the money and resources, I reckon its not a bad option, and as long as we put some effort into making the hours both challenging and beneficial, I reckon it will be as good as anywhere. Got RANT on the laptop for evenings, and want to get a very good feeling for instruments.

Also we will be hour building on the same aircraft we will be using for CPL in Florida, thats gotta be useful.

[A and C]

The major british trainning providors have pushed this "integrated is best" to the personel departments and in the aviation press on "quality" grounds but it is all about the money.

I have seen modular pilots pass the CPL/IR first time with one company and not be put forward for airline jobs and at the same time integrated pilots that have taken two or three attempts to pass the CPL/IR pushed into job intervews.......................... If it was a pilot quality issue the modular pilot would have been given a chance at a job interveiw, but it is not it is just the fact that the integrated guys are paying twice as much for the training.

Having done the numbers the trainning providors have taken te view that to protect the intigrated business they can offer to pay the airlines trainning bill if a pilot is "chopped" before a the simulator trip 5 (or so).

This has nothing to do with pilot quality from the trainning providors point of view it is simply a numbers game, they have £120,000 from a large number of young hopefulls and can afford to protect there business with the airlines by taking the hit on the odd simulator failure.

Hour building for integrated students in te USA is not about providing a rounded education for a pilot, it is simply a way of cutting the costs and increasing proffit.

Most integrated pilots are only just able to fly the aircraft by the time that they get into the RHS of an airliner, the skill level and all round pilotage skills of modular guys tend to be much better, but the training industry and the airlines don't see them as being such a good financial propostion.