XL.com/Excel Airways

[Nick22]

This is the memo that sent to their crew a few days ago! (As we expected)

Fit for the Future Update
August 2007
Dear Colleague
The last twelve months have seen a lot of change in our industry. We are facing tough competitive pressure both from the low cost carriers and the consolidation of the tour and travel industry. The internet increasingly provides opportunities for our customers to tailor make holiday solutions that more closely match their individual aspirations – eating into the traditional package holiday market. I do not need to tell you that the travel industry is in effect a barometer for whatever is happening globally. Headlines about global warming, which unfailingly emphasise the impact of air travel, have been made real in our home market with the devastating floods in parts of the UK. Interest rates have gone up and the property market has softened – weakening the demand for holidays. Fluctuations in the US and UK economies along with an increase in fuel price have put an additional burden on our costs. Closer to home we have suffered a number of operational setbacks that impact on our costs and our reputation.
We are by no means alone - this is the reality of the challenge that faces the whole industry.
The impact for us is that we will be well short of achieving our profit target for this year. I am sorry to have to inform you this means we will be unable to pay out the profit related company bonus, as it is a long way below the threshold we set.
It also means that we will need to change our business model to restore the company to an acceptable level of profitability.
We have three urgent and important tasks to manage within next year’s budget -
Maximising revenue opportunities
Reducing costs to make the business viable and remain competitive
Achieving customer service and operational performance that will delight customers and ensure repeat business
The fleet will be simplified with the removal of 747s, 757s and 2 x 767 aircraft. We have cut back winter capacity and achieved good winter lease out opportunities, with the result that traditional winter losses for 07/08 are forecast to be better than those for 06/07. We are currently evaluating options for the 2008 summer schedule and regional bases with reduced fleet; this will again give a better gross revenue contribution than the current year. Once fleet plans are finalised, the crew plans can also be firmed up. All indications are that we will need less crew to cover the operation than currently and we will be consulting with BALPA and AMICUS about this issue.
Our costs are too high for a business of our size and I am setting a cost reduction target to be achieved progressively over the coming six months. We have procurement and treasury experts who have been given tough and ambitious targets. We have estimated that there are significant savings available, by buying smarter and managing our money more effectively.
We urgently need to address the costs of our overhead and support activity. Along with the reduction in capacity, we can make manpower savings by working differently and consolidating activities across the group. I am asking each department head to identify savings in support activity in their area of at least 20%. Not all of this needs to be manpower and some of these savings will be dependant on systems investment, so will not be achievable immediately – but radical change to the shape and direction of the business will be needed.
At the same time we need to maintain our focus on our customers and ensure that the services we offer add value and that our operational performance is competitive.
Change can be extremely unsettling and I know it will be important to you that it is managed consistently and fairly. We will be following a thorough process to identify where we can make savings and over the next few weeks you will be briefed by your manager about how any changes may affect you. The timescales are tight as this work will be completed so that the improvements required can be built into the 2008 budget.
We will involve you as much as possible in the process and intend to keep you fully informed along the way.

[hostiegirl]

your first post and you find it " funny " that peoples jobs are under review!! :mad:hope your never in that position!

[UFGBOY]

This is an internal and therefore confidential memo - should it be posted on Internet?

[William Whizz]

THAT MEMO SHOULD BE TAKEN OF THE FORUM!!! As UFGBOY (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=43777) says is an internal memo. One thing is talk about it and other thing is writting it word by word

Nick22 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=189764) I think you should delete the memo. That was not nice of you!

[hostiegirl]

Glad youve changed the "how funny"! to as expected........ although i wasn't "expecting" it!

[Nick22]

I actually work for this company and I am sorry to say but I m glad they going that way. Been with them for nearly 4 years and it s getting worse and worse. I m just staying in this company just to see how they gonna end up. Unfortunatly, we all gonna lose our job but they do not deserve to be in the industry. Not nice at all !!!!!!!

[tartcart]

not looking good for us.
we've all (perm contracts) been drop filed five options to choose from:
50% winter
voluntary redundancy
18 months sabatical
5 months unpaid winter leave
or.... none of the above suit.

gotta say it feels like a huge slap in the face as we're the ones who've had to struggle through delays,tech aircrafts etc whilst the company decide to sponser west ham for a huge fee :rolleyes::rolleyes:,spend £££££s on a outside firm to advise on rebranding,new advertising,new uniform etc......
they've just haemorrhaged money

off the job centre for me!

[briefing]

I actually work for this company and I am sorry to say but I m glad they going that way

I also work for the company and I think that if you dislike it so much you should leave, so the rest of us can stay!!!

[Nick22]

Do you really think they gonna survive??? Dont think so

[galanjal]

Nick22 may I just say that your last comment was at best unhelpful. I don't work for XL but have worked for airlines where I was concerned about the future and I know I wouldn't have appreciated comments like yours. I know that this is an open forum but comments like "do you think they will survive, I don't think so" are ill informed and only serve to annoy and/or worry XL staff.

[avgas321]

Firstly, how irresponsible and immature to post an internal memo on an open forum. What, exactly, do you hope to gain from doing this, aside from grinding your obvious bitter axe? Absolutely no need..:=

Secondly, and precisely for those who cannot read, the 20% cuts are not specifically aimed at head count alone. It remains to be seen whether or not this will be the case, it may well be, but infrastructure, budgets (marketing?), systems and procedures will all be scrutinized.
Tartcart - hadn't heard that these options had been posted already, but sorry to hear your news. Not much of a help, but the majority of charter operations cut back for the winter, but am sure you knew this already. With regards to your comments about sponsorship, rebranding etc these are unfortunately necessary evils, and although may seem as though money ill spent, it does pay dividends to the company as a whole.

Lastly Nick22, please share with me and the group your rationale and certainty behind the comments about the company not surviving? They appear, to me anyway, to be taking some fairly hard decisions and proactive steps to ensure they survive in a very cut throat indusrty and market place. You, obviously, have different information. Or do you?

[galanjal]

avgas321 well said!

[glider12000]

Being crew with XL it is a very tough time.

First the memo was released stating that these changes were to occur. Most of the crew knew that the 747 and 767-200 and 757`s were going so that was no big surprise, but what we do want to know is what we can expect in the future.

The memo states that changes have to be made, but reading it, does indeed makes it seem that the company want to make the systems and procedures more streamlined to improve efficiency and reduce our cost, helping us to be more competitive.

I think everybody in the company would love a more efficient company, one with a bright future, but unfortunately it`s going to take some sweeping stages.

I know that the recent "poll" of crew about future plans has caused, as expected a large rucus. We all want to know what the repercussions are of selecting one option over another. People are, at the moment very worried, and with it being a bank holiday there have not been any real communications to try to allieviate some of the fears that people have.

The crew in XL are an excellent one, well motivated, friendly always hard working and I have made some great friends. I just hope that the main asset that XL have, the people within the company, are well treated despite these changes.

I know that some people are quick to try to jump on the worst case scenario route, but I see a glimmering light in the future. We will soon be equiped with new long haul aircraft, so with the mixture of these, plus the new 737-900 and existing 737-800 passengers will have a fleet of modern aircraft. The dispatch reliability will greatly improve and the overall product as a whole that we are able to provide will drastically improve.

Whilst a lot has been said for the West Ham sponsorship, it will no doubt raise awareness of the company`s existance, that is surely a good thing, and let`s hope that we can generate more money that we plough into them. In the end most weekends we are getting world wide exposure, and for the figures that we have spent to do that is frankly cheap.

I know that some people may disagree with what I have said, but we have to look to the future and see what it holds, but I do feel that once this period has been overcome, the future appears to be very strong indeed.

[nesboy 1976]

For someone who has recently left XL, and who has alot of friends there i feel very sad about the whole thing.

They are a great company to work for and if i hadn't been offered a slightly better position i'd still be there.:)

I think as long as the fleet have been streamlined then everything will start to work it's self out.

It's a differcult time for many airlines at the moment and sometimes the only way to survive is to make forced savings. Unfortunately these savings usually start with the work force.

Without stating the blindingly obvious, it's going to be a tough winter at XL but with the characters they have at the company i'm sure they will be fine.

Good luck to you all.:ok:

[warkman]

Nick22
Thank you for posting that memo.
I am sure that many SLF's reading this are better informed now to the state of this airline.
SLF pay a lot of money up to 11 months in advance to fly with airlines and things like this they need to be aware of, as its their hard earned cash that could be going down the pan.
Well done

[nesboy 1976]

I think the thought of XL going down the pan is a bit drastic really!:}

They have numerous A/C either wet or dry leased during the winter and summer months that will bring in a reasonable amount of money over the next few years which will help!

As i've said before, it's a slight over sight on behalf of the Directors and Managers and a case of 'too much, too soon'!:= It will always work itself out.

Granted i can sit pretty as i don't have to worry about my job and i feel for my friends and ex collegues within XL.

[Picasa]

Strange isn't ? I bet Nick22 was one of those people moaning that XL would never be any good because they fly old and knackered aircraft, weren't they asking the company to get new more reliable aircraft ?

Well the company listen, go out and get new reliable aircraft, which ofcourse has a price to pay, and that's wrong - makes you wonder why they bother !!! :ugh:

And for what it's worth i also agree that it's wrong to reproduce an internal company memo on Pprune. Nick22 (IQ or age?)- only some deluded cabbage would write "I'm just staying in this company just to see how they gonna end up"
Good luck

[Nick22]

Get over it mate !!

[Litebulbs]

The thing I cant work out, is that at worker level, engineers, crew, ground staff and pilots, terms and conditions across the whole charter business are not too different. It has just got to be down to 5hite Directorship.

From the sharp end of the jet, to a new joiner school leaver, we all do a job that keeps em flyin. XL have had no disasters and the "old dog jets" keep flyin.

Sack the whole Board and start again!

[Litebulbs]

Oh and when I say sack, I mean for Gross Misconduct, not with a golden parachute! Accountability without compensation! Its the way forward in business.

[Stephen82]

Well Done Nick22 At least there s someone in XL who says what he really thinks. For those of you who DO NOT work for XL, I would suggest you keep quite on this matter as you do not know what really goes on in this company as it s not just about the memo.

I totally agree with Nick22, this company is crap and there is no surprise by this memo at all.

And don't tell me they going to survive, we've seen it coming for the last 9 months. But I m sure some of you will tell me that I m rude and should leave this company if I m not happy but I wanna see what happens.

And No need to reply telling that i am rude or deluded as I am not and am just facing reality that some of you don't wanna see.

[nesboy 1976]

If you feel that strongly about it then it's best you leave! I'm sure you are 'bags of fun' on a CRM day!! :ugh:

I've just left XL and I didn't see this coming '9 months ago' and i've been flying a long time and have been with some very dubious companies! XL have their problems but hey this is the Aviation Industry!!:}

[Stephen82]

Well obviously Nesboy, you v had your head in the clouds!!! This company waste money on a daily basis, on ridiculous things and I am sorry to dissappoint you but I am not the only one to have seen this coming, the difference being that I can actually say it rather than most people in XL keep it shut !!!

[peterowensfanclub]

Nick22 and stephen 82, report to my office immediately.:}

If you are such business gurus why are you working as juniors in a charter airline living your life and making decisions based on the drivel, gossip and hearsay that you spout with your colleagues in the back galley instead of geting out there and making it work. We need less of your types and more managers:E

[Stephen82]

Well obviously we DO need more managers and directors who actually know what they doing as the current ones obviously haven't got a clue.

And what exactly can juniors do when we constently report things but no one cares in this company as long as the fat cats at the top get their money Who cares about the people who make the company??

Do you actually work for XL or just working for descent company and just making comments????

[UFGBOY]

For what it's worth, here is my 2 dirhams of input...
No pain no gain; B747 are expensive and whilst they have the capacity, the extra fuel/crew needed to carry the 200 odd (!) punters over a B767 / A330 costs more than revenue generated
4 x A330 cannot be introduced over night; hence the 18 month 'downsizing' - crews have to be trained etc etc
The ASI contract was not renewed; partly I understand due late confirmation that the a/c would be available to operate the flights (remember; not an XL machine )
The surgeon has had to make cuts to save the patient....; none of this detracts from all of the uncertainty that we are all facing at the moment..myself included.....:bored:

[AAE747Boy]

I'm really annoyed that the memo to XL staff has been made available to anyone who views this website. I hope anyone on here who slags off the company or thinks this is funny are the ones who lose their jobs.

If anyone thinks XL haven't got a clue then why are they doing what they are doing?? They are a business not a charity, here to make money, so there not going to pay crew to fly once a month. They know they need to save money and thats what they intend to do. They clearly have people working for them who have there heads screwed on.

XL have new A330's on order and many 737's leased out for winter where there is money to be made. Its obvious there is going to be cutbacks when the fleet is reduced as much as it is being. I've been with the company since AAE and only got permanent last year, so i will probably be one of the first to get redundancy, if thats the path they take. I'm not gonna slag them off tho, if i wanted to slag them off then i wouldnt be working for them. Anyone who hates them but still works for them clearly can't get another airline job.....Good luck everyone who I work with, lets hope we get the option we have chosen x

[warkman]

So what are TCD going to do for the January-November 2008 flights?

[air2bob]

I also work at LGW and have many good friends at xl i also agree an internal memo should not be posted on a public site!
Stephen82 are you the same Stephen82 that a few months ago was posting on here saying you were going to take xl to court for sacking you?................ how did you get on what was the outcome? you obviously still have issues as you seem very bitter!

[nesboy 1976]

"Stephen82 are you the same Stephen82 that a few months ago was posting on here saying you were going to take xl to court for sacking you?................ how did you get on what was the outcome? you obviously still have issues as you seem very bitter!"

If that's the case then it explains alot!:)

[warkman]

On another forum, someone has posted the following about the SFB flights:-

"Depending whether they go from Gatwick or Manchester it will be a XL 767 ( Premium and Econ ) or a XL Star Airlines of France A330 , with a premium and economy. I know TCD are sending letters out soon regarding flight changes for next summer/winter 08"

Is this correct?

[MsXta]

warkman, yes, the SFB flights will go on the 767-300s out of MAN and LGW.

[warkman]

Thanks MsXta.
I take it that cabin classes will be Economy and Sunshine First?

[briefing]

Nick22 and stephen 82 I agree with all the people in this forum!! If you hate excel why don't you leave???

You talk crapt about the company, as if excel was the only one like that!!! Have you ever worked with other companies?? Probably not, with that attitude. The grass is not greener on the other side!!!!!!!!

What you should do is ask for the redundancy so the rest of us can stay with excel, as we like the company, and of course there is bad things, but at least finally we can say good bye to the old a/c as we have been asking for a long time.

[nesboy 1976]

Briefing where are you based? Lgw or Man?

[Billy The Squid]

nesboy, briefing etc etc...here here!! :D:D
The grass isn't always greener. This is the fourth charter airline i have worked for and the people are just the best.
I pray that redundancies are kept to an absolute minimum :ok:

[Picasa]

I agree with PeterOwens fan club here - If Stephen82 and Nick22 are such financial and business geniuses why are they posting on a cabin crew website ? I'd have thought that recruitment agencies across the UK would be beating on their doors begging for them to take up Senior Management posts in major Commercial companies...........or is it maybe because their lack of intelligence has led them to where they currently are in the world ?
Briefing is correct, the grass is not always greener, other companies have similar problems, some have worse, several merging companies spring to mind.

Although if Stephen82 did get sacked it goes a long way to understanding that bitterness - which hopefully one day he will come to terms with and move on.....but then again stuff him, i hope it keeps gnawing away at him for a long time to come....:ok:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

On a friend's flight, they were 1 hour into the flight when the crew on the 738 MAN - TFS (TUE AFTERNOON) realised that there were only 70+ meals onboard, Leaving alot of people short changed!!:hmm:

I don't think cost cutting is always the answer, It is getting the right team to run the operation, And I am afraid to say that XL have not got it quite right yet.:ugh:

Regards.

[VS-LHRCSA]

Sounds like not much has changed since I was there. I remember once, on a breakfast flight, they had loaded the lunch hot straight into the oven, instead of the breakfast hots. no one checked before cooking, so we ended up serving cottage pie on the breakfast tray. on the return flight we had to serve omlettes on the lunch tray.

Stuff like this was typical. Mind you, this was going back to the days of the L1011 and Excel was just being formed out of Sabre. Great crews making the best of out not-so-great circumstances.

[briefing]

nesboy 1976 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=171827)

I am lgw based. Why?

BYALPHAINDIA (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=158192)

As if that only will happens in XLA. I think is funny when people tells stories that happened to friends. Things like that could have different reasons why. Caterings fault, last minute holiday bookings, xla not ordering all the meals, etc...... I have worked for a few companies and have had that problem on all of them, but I must said, in almost 2 years working for xla, never happened to me.

[Excelsbest]

Im SOOOOOO GLAD to SEE this is happening at XL it is about time!! They have scrimped and scraped through the last 2 years getting rid of the decent crew and keeping the SH***Y crew and all those Trainers who were only there as they were sacked yes sacked from there previous airline for Stealing!! Anyways Rant over there all gettin there comeupance now. Thank God!!

[Nick22]

Fit for the Future
UNITE/ XL Joint Consultation Meeting – 1 held on Tuesday 4 September at 1400
in Explorer House.
Present: (MD)
(In-flight Director)
(Head of Cabin Services)
(Employee Relations Manager)
(UNITE Regional Officer)
(UNITE Rep)
(UNITE Rep)
1. Business Overview
Mr XX opened the meeting by providing the business overview in
relation to the recent Fit for the Future memo from Mr XX.
He described how the popularity of the traditional holiday package deal through
the tour operator market has declined and is continuing to do so. This has hit the
entire airline business. The Group has had to change the way it does its business in
order to match the current market. When the Company was originally set up we
had partnerships with 45 independent tour operators. There are now only about 5
left.
Within the Group 85% of our capacity is controlled internally and we need to do it
right. The product itself needs to be changed and the internet needs to be made
use of more.
The re-branding of the XL product was a key focus for the Company, along with an
investment into our website. The West Ham sponsorship was seen as key to
getting the XL name as much exposure as possible so that customers contacted us
directly. The exposure was far greater than the same amount of spend on normal
PR in papers, advertising, etc.
The Company has had to rationalise its fleet, and change its programme to suit
the current market
The mass competition in the low cost air carrier market is affecting us badly, and
the Company needs to cut many of the 3 hour range holidays as the yield has
decreased. We must now concentrate on the low cost flight areas that are outside
the 3 hour range.
Customers now want dynamic packaging and the structure of the company needs
to be changed in order to respond to our customers’ needs.
The fleet for next year will consist of 13 x 737s and 2 x 767s, and going forward a
leaner fleet consisting of 737s and A330s.
All areas of the business are being looked at and all department heads have been
asked to come up with a plan to facilitate the 20% cost reduction requirements.
Significant resources have been invested in a new IT strategy redefining our
product in every area that will need IT support.
The Company recognises everyone’s concerns but this cost issue does need to be
addressed. The plan is for the exercise to be completed by mid-end November.
2. Introduction from Mr XX - UNITE
Mr xx introduced himself and explained that UNITE has restructured, hence
the change in Regional Officer.
He explained that the role of UNITE is to make sure that they represent their
members effectively by working together with the Company and that there is a
state of apprehension amongst the Cabin Crew at present.
Mr XX stated that UNITE viewed the commencement of the 90 day consultation
period as being today (4 September) however the Company reiterated that an
agreement had already been reached that it commenced on 20 August, the date
that UNITE had first been notified of the situation.
He went on to state the need to involve the internal representatives and the
Company agreed that this was not an issue.
The UNITE standpoint is that LIFO (last in first out) is preferred as an objective
selection criterion and that a skills analysis is not their preferred method. The
Company point of view is that the people with the best skills and abilities should
be retained, therefore would be using the following fair and objective criteria to
select individuals for the various alternatives to redundancy that were on offer and
to select for redundancy.

•
Disciplinary Record

•


Attendance Record

o


Sickness – 1st stage, 2nd stage, 3rd stage

o


Absents

o


No Shows

o


Non Contactables

o


Late Reports

•


Capability, standard of work performance, aptitude, sales

•


Skills

•


Length of service

The Company suggested to UNITE that if they had any suggestions further to the
options that had already been communicated to the Cabin Crew to inform us as
soon as possible .
3. Questions and Answers
Q. How many crew do we have in each rank? Please specify permanent and
temporary crew. Please state figures for each base.
A.
LGW
PSR A/P JNR Total
61.5 52.5 213 327
MAN
PSR A/P JNR Total
32 41.5 165.5 239
BRS - all 100%
PSR A/P JNR Total
5 4 14 23
Temporary – All Juniors
LGW 115 MAN 67 BRS 14
Q. Clarification of bases that will be closed/kept open? What about STN & LCA
returning staff?
A. Bases for W07/08 – LGW, MAN, LCA, BRS
S08 LGW, MAN, LCA, BRS, GLA, DUB, EMA
Q. How many crew will be offered Bangkok/Sunwings contract? Are these
opportunities offered to all crew of all bases?
A. The Bangkok – Nok Air contract will be offered to 36 Pursers on 2 month
secondment
Sunwings at the moment offered to MAN crew. Figures to be confirmed by
Sunwing
Q. Did all bases get the letter regarding the options to avoid compulsories?
Did all get the same options? What about other bases like Dublin, Larnaca,
XL France & XL Germany?
A. No all bases did not receive the letter. MAN received an extra option of the
Sunwing contract.
Q. When will the redundancies and the other options come into effect?
A. Post 90 days consultation
Q. Departure dates for the 747, 767-200s and 757s?
A. B747 AME 12November 2007
AMJ 11November 2007
ASI operation 03October 2007
B762 01November 07
B757 NA 05September 07
ND 01November 07
Q. Airbus Arrival and Training Dates?
A. MYT 29 Feb – 30 Apr to cover B767 maintenance – seat rate deal
A330 XLF arrival – 01 May 2008
A330 XLA delivery – NOV & DEC 08, & MAR & APR 09
The training dates for this aircraft are being plotted
Q. If crew tick the box that they are not interested in any of the above does
that mean they will be first to go?
A. A selection exercise will be carried out on every perm crew member (except
those opting for voluntary redundancy)
Q. More detailed info regarding the options required, ie:
Will any crew be kept on a 100% contract?
A. Yes where required
Q. Option 1 - 50% roster – duration?
A. November – March inclusive
Q. After Sunwing’s contract what happens when we go back to XL, do we go
back full time or part time?
A After Sunwing the crew concerned will return to the UK and will be full time
for the summer.
Q. Will 100% contracts be guaranteed after that duration?
A. Cannot confirm at this stage, could be 100% for summer then may have to
go to 50% contract again for winter.
Q. Will we have to sign another contract?
A. If an alternative option has been requested and agreed then some form of
confirmation will be produced and will have to be signed by the individual.
Q. When do we leave/return back to XL?
A. November through to 01April, the exact date in November is to be
confirmed
Q. Option 2 - 5 months unpaid leave
Can you take another job or do you have to pay double tax Emergency tax
code?
A. Yes you can take another job. You will be placed on emergency tax and
you would need to claim this back from the tax office once you had
received your P45 from your alternative employer.
Q. When do we leave/return back to XL will there be a chance of calling us
back sooner?
A. November – March for Apr 01 start. Unlikely to be sooner
Q. What happens about my XL company pension?
A. Individuals can continue to contribute, but the employer’s contributions will
cease for that period.
Q. Will I have to sign a new contract when I come back
A. No
Q. Will I keep my current staff number?
A. Yes
Q. Will I go back full time? Is this guaranteed?
A. Yes for summer, as long as the company fleet plan remains the same.
Q. Option 3 - Sunwings contract
Do I have to pay for my uniform/training.
A. No
Q. How long is the training course.
A. Dependant on current qualifications & Transport Canada
Q. What is the Pay/Hours
A. answers below from Sunwing
a) We were looking for 20 crew. We would look at approximately 7 CSM's and 13
F/A's
b) The F/A's are paid $20.00 per flight hour and $30.00 for the CSM's
c) The Cabin Crew are paid per diem at $3.25 per hour while away from the
Canadian home base
d) They are paid a commission for all on board sales.
e) The crew would be operating southern turns, usually back the same day,
however, there may be the occasional out of town layover in Canada
f) The UK crews would probably be all based in Calgary, however, if we do not get
all of our numbers in Toronto, there may be a requirement for crew here
Q. Will I be demoted?
A. The decision will be Sunwing’s together with what positions are available –
they do not have an A/P position
Q. If I left the Sunwings contract before the six months are up does that mean
I have left XL?
A. Yes.
Q. What happens about illness to parents back in the UK. Will XL fly us home?
A. No – this is a Sunwing contract so would need to talk to them
Q. What if someone doesn’t like it?
A. Cases like these will be looked at on an individual basis.
Other:
Q. Can redundancy payouts be made more attractive for voluntary
redundancy to try and reduce compulsory redundancy?
A. The Company is not considering enhanced voluntary redundancy at this
stage.
Q. Compulsory redundancies – Selection for Redundancies – Seniority
A. No, full selection criteria process will be followed
Q. What work is secured for the winter?
A. Programme includes more long flights, very similar to last year & as many
ad-hocs as possible.
Q. There has been mentioned that light aircraft use in Caribbean is too
expensive and will cease? If this is correct, then what are the alternatives
for the company? Will we operate our own long haul programme this
winter?
A. All areas of expenditure are being looked at.
Q. When will 747/767 crew be trained on the 737?
A. During the Winter, from November onwards
Q. How do ex AAE crew fit into the seniority list?
A. There are no such people or list, all crew have been XL since May 06. When
they became XL their service was continuous and their original date of
joining was transferred with them.
Q. Reduction of Base Managers & Trainers/Line Trainers/ Office staff?
A. All are under review as per Peter Owen’s communication
Q. Demotion of newly promoted crew for this winter?
A. All positions are being looked at
Q. Will XL allow voluntary/compulsory made redundant crew reasonable time
off to attend job interviews?
A. Yes
Q. When will winter leave be announced?
A. In approx 10 days time
Q. Are XL UK, France & Germany all one company?
A. All separate companies
Q. What is the state of the company? Crew are concerned about refinancing
of loan that is coming up. What do XL predict for the future?
A. Discussions are ongoing regarding refinancing target date of March. This is
a painful process but puts us in a good position for the future.
Q. Commission deductions have started again. Also there hav been issues of
parts of money going missing from being placed into the safe and arriving
at Alpha. What are the money procedures at Alpha once the safe is
emptied? Any security measures in place, ie cameras or how many people
are dealing with cash?
A. The commission deductions shouldn’t have stopped. Any deductions are
split between Alpha/ XL & Crew, so they don’t have to pay all ‘unders’.
However also get paid ‘overs’.
Action: Company to attach Security aspects and flow charts to go with
minutes.
Suggestions for Possible Savings to be made by:
Using plain rubbish bags, cuttlery packs/sick bags, soaps, napkins and trays
Crew could leave unopened drink bottles on a/c and only uplift as necessary
Line Trainers on Flights observing as an extra crew member. Additional
expenses could pursers incorporate the roles of reporting back
observations?
Snys on long haul flights – unnecessary expenses
Stop & Search policy – Action for Mr XX to come back to us regarding
this
The Company thanked all for their suggestions for savings. These will be
looked at along with all the others.
4. Schedule of meetings
24/09/07 @ 1400 Company to provide responses to options prior to this
meeting
1/10/07 @ 1400
15/10/07 @ 1400

[babymax]

I really do think you shouldnt have posted that confidential information on a public forum,im requesting that the moderators remove you from this forum.You seem a very twisted little man who obviously got a attitude against XL, do us a favour mate grow up.

[kate140983]

Does Karina Sharrock still work for xl, she was a purser about 4 years ago?

[Nick22]

Fit for the Future
UNITE/ XL Joint Consultation Meeting – 2 held on Monday 21 September at 1400
in Explorer House.
Present: (In-flight Director)
(Head of Cabin Services)
(Employee Relations Manager)
(UNITE Regional Officer - South)
(UNITE Regional Officer – MAN)
(UNITE Rep)
(UNITE Rep)
1. Consultation Period
Mr XX stated that UNITE would accept that the 90 day consultation
period commenced on the day that UNITE was informed by telephone of
the situation, ie the date stated on the HR1 form – 20 August 2007.
Mr XX introduced Ms XX as the UNITE Regional Officer based in
Manchester and requested that she, along with Mr XX (UNITE Rep
for Manchester were copied in on all documentation).
2. Update from XL
Ms XX provided an update with regard to the process so far, that
the Company as a whole is consolidating structures at present to reduce
costs by 20%, this included the tour operating division. She highlighted the
fact that in terms of communication, a dedicated site has been developed
on the Company intranet which provides the latest information on the Fit
for the Future process. Ms XX explained that the options from the first
communication to Cabin Crew were being set aside and that a pack with
updated proposals for alternatives to compulsory redundancy including
more detail and policies was being sent out to each individual, including a
potentially enhanced VR proposal. The uptake will be fed back to the
consultation group asap.
Mr XX stated that the Q&A document currently on the intranet has
been very helpful and he has no specific questions on the document at this
time.
3. Selection Criteria
The Company explained the criteria that would be used to select individuals
for compulsory redundancy. Mr XX questioned the fact that there
doesn’t appear to be any points awarded for being a Purser or A/P. The
Company explained that it would make no difference if there was as every
Purser and A/P would receive those points because they are being assessed
in separate pools. Any extra points for being a Purser or A/P would be
reflected in the work performance category.
Work Performance Section:
The points awarded for being the “Winner” of sales incentive will be
removed as it was felt that this would discriminate against those who were
part-time and would not have the same ability to become the winner as
those who work full-time.
Negative comments: This area was queried as UNITE felt that it would be
unfair to use this category to deduct points unless each negative comment
was investigated thoroughly. The Company confirmed that all negative
comments are investigated thoroughly and would only be used when
determined that a case exists.
Ms XX stated that the Company is being as objective and conscientious
as possible in making sure that the criteria is completely fair.
Flight Paperwork: UNITE questioned the deduction of points in this
category and sought clarification that this only takes place once the
clarification has been sought and the individual has received feedback. The
Company confirmed that this was the case. Anything that has taken place
recently, where the forms have taken a few days to come through has not
been taken into consideration.
Length of Service: UNITE stated that they would like to take months into
account rather than full years’ service. This may be taken into account if a
number of individuals are on the same points.
Sickness: UNITE queried the fact that having an informal chat would count
for points deduction. The Company explained that the informal chat is to
determine whether or not there is an underlying problem, or particular
mitigating circumstances. When it is determined that there is not it will be
taken into account. If it is determined that there is an underlying problem
or mitigating circumstances, the informal stage will be removed from the
individual’s record and therefore will not be counted.
4. Nokair Contract:
Q: Are these employees safe or part of the pool for selection for
redundancy?
A: In the pot for selection.
Q: Do these employees revert to their original position when the
contract ends?
A: Yes
Q: Is the original grade of employees the one that is used for the
redundancy pool?
A: Yes
Q: Statement – people are thinking that they are safe.
A: The Company has done nothing to encourage this, everyone has
received the letter that was sent to all Cabin Crew stating that their
position is at risk.
5. 7/5 Contract
The Company has offered this contract to reduce the number of
compulsory redundancies that may have to be made. Looking further into
the future it didn’t want to have to go through a similar exercise next year,
therefore the Company wished to offer a permanent option that would
take care of seasonal peaks and troughs. It was felt that offering this
option would reduce the number of compulsory redundancies to approx 80
across both bases. This has also taken into account the number of
resignations which the Company has recently received.
6. General
Q: Why is the Sunwing contract only open to Manchester based
employees?
A: Because the aircraft will be based in Manchester next year. You
may have been made aware of personnel from other bases applying
for Sunwing, these applications are from personnel who are on
temporary contracts with XL, they are not part of the establishment
going forward and have made the approach to Sunwing personally.
Q: If Cabin Crew took the option to take unpaid leave and wished to be
paid over the 12 month period at a pro-rata rate would they be able
to take this option from November?
A: The Company would need to investigate this as there would be a
risk of the person being paid and then not returning to XL, there is
the potential that the Company would not be able to recover the
salaries paid.
7. Further Comments
Leavers – there is an increased number recently.
The ranking order for compulsory redundancy will be made available to
UNITE as soon as it is completed.
As soon as the alternative options come back they will be communicated to
UNITE.
Revised alternatives are to go out to Cabin Crew asap.
Those individuals on maternity leave and long term sick – they are being
communicated with along with all other members of the Cabin Crew
workforce.
The latest options pack is to be highlighted as a replacement to the earlier
options and further to the initial letters.
The Company is to ensure the UNITE Reps are released from
flying/standby duties to attend further meetings.
Mr XX – UNITE Rep in Manchester has not been rostered to attend
some meetings – the Company/UNITE will ensure that he receives all
communications.
The Company is to investigate roster release for one of the LGW UNITE
reps to accompany Denise Barber on a visit to the Manchester base.
Meeting closed.

[MsXta]

I agree with Babymax. Nick22 and his post of the confidental information for XL employees only should be removed from this public forum.

[briefing]

Yes I agree with both of you. I really do not know why the moderator do not remove this person from the forum or at least the information that should not be posted.

[TightSlot]

The information in the memo(s) is, as far as we know, not covered by legislation that prevents it being published externally: There may however, be internal company rules that prohibit publication, and Nick22 may need to be very careful.

As far as PPRuNe goes, we don't remove something (or somebody) just because somebody else doesn't like or want it being posted here.

Now, may we move on, please...

[Picasa]

Not wishing to begin a witch hunt here, but it is very obvious that Nick22 has a very strange interpretation of the use and benefits of these websites.

Nick22 - please explain what benefit you believe your posting of internal company memos will have? They are called internal company memos for the reason that they should remain 'internal'.

Naming and quoting management representatives is not big, it's not clever and it is most definitely not dignified - do the right thing Nick22 and remove your posts.

Perhaps if anyone knows exactly who Nick22 is he should be unmasked so that when XL are looking for people to go they don't inadvertently leave him in his job, especially as he obviously dislikes it so very much - that would be unfair on some poor other individual who actually wants to stay.

[peterowensfanclub]

Moderator,
May I pont out that people are being named in that memo who may not wish to be all over your website as the information was on a secure site not public domain. Or are ther two rules here. Next time someone is is trouble, say a failed opc at virgin or internal problems with anyone here,Ill allegedly name them or maybe publish an asr that might come my way shall I. Lets see how long that lasts.
Come on do the decent thing before some other laundry you may not like surfaces.

[Stephen82]

Get over it guys !!!!

[Picasa]

Stephen82 - It is not a case of getting over anything, POFC is quite correct, posting internal company memos is one thing but when they contain actual names of people who have made quotes in certain meetings it's opens them to all kinds of potential problems and abuse, something the Moderators seem oblivious to.

Tightslot - If you must leave the memos on the site at least erase the individual names from the memo - I'm sure if you ask them if they have given permission for PPRune to show and quote their comments they may not be best pleased, which may indeed open yourselves to legislation - think about it please.

If this website is so open and people are able to name each other why do people have annonymous nicknames ?

[Nick22]

Oups !! I do apoligise :rolleyes:

The names has been removed now

[nesboy 1976]

Nick22 you must have the biggest chip on your shoulder! If you are so concerned with the state of the Cabin Service Department at XL then why don't you leave?!

Don't forget though, this industry is awfully small so you don't want a reputation for a trouble maker.....as it will come back to haunt you!:oh:

[paul01942]

Maybe Nick should'nt of published documents and memo's on this site but lets not forget the meaning of this forum! its where people can voice an opinion say what they feel and be expressive, so my concerns are that you are all bandwagonning and witch hunting the poor bloke let him have his say and be respective of that! in regards to XL there have been some very under hand tactics by the company which border on threatening behaviour how a company can give there staff options then put at the bottom "should you choose none of the above you are high risk for redundancy" i'm sorry guys if thats not threatening all these poor guys and gals into a decision then i don't not what is! maybe Nick went about his comments slightly wrong but guys and girls come on look at it from the point of view of the XL staff instead of coming here and trying to be judge and jury show compassion!:ugh::mad:

[briefing]

As you say, the forums are places to say things and get them out. So why do you worry so much about what people may say to nick22??? If we think he is wrong, we have the same right to give our opinion as he has!!

About XL procedures, if they did not put that remark, probably nobody would have taken other options.

I can only say that for me it worked great, I have got what I asked for, without any meetings. New contract is on the way.

Hopefully Nick22 got what he wanted, leave XL

[briefing]

Tightslot - If you must leave the memos on the site at least erase the individual names from the memo - I'm sure if you ask them if they have given permission for PPRune to show and quote their comments they may not be best pleased, which may indeed open yourselves to legislation - think about it please.

I agree totally with you. And must say that I have seen the moderator taken away messages and stopped people from answering for less than this.

[peterowensfanclub]

paul01942,
Typical end result of galley fm.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the options and proceedures available.
I'll make it clear. Everyone is assessed via a points system. X amount will be sucessful and fill the available slots. That is when the choices come into effect.

Therefore if you are not sucessful your choices will be applied. If you chose none of the above three choices you gave yourself two options. Be sucessful or get made redundant. The whole form was not a chop threat but a statement of preference as to what you would prefer if not sucessful. I hope I have repeated myself enough for you to understand.

Whilst harsh it is not threatening behaviour just proceedure and your inability to understand the form.I would imagine heavily influenced by galley fm and barrack room lawyers both of which , despite their huge influence, hold very little merit.

Good luck to those today who find themslves in an uncertain position.
A few more messages of support and less xl slagging would help.:ok:

[tartcart]

what about us that haven't either had a congratulations email (that got sent over 24 hrs ago) or been asked to attend a meeting? i've taken it as that after being with the company five years i'm being offered neither, gutted they haven't had the decency or common curtesey to let us know.
and yes i did tick none of the above as did 90% of people i spoke did but it shouldn't been i'm worth any less.
truely gutted that i'm facing a stony silence as if my fates been sealed so just forget about us.

THE WAY THEY DO THINGS AND THEIR COMMUNICATION STINKS !!!!

[paul01942]

To peterowensfanclub: Believe me I do fully understand how a proceadure work's I don't work for XL nor would I want to as I have been actively involved in consultaions before and this has to be the worse process i have ever seen, how can a company send e-mails to the chosen few knowing they would tell the others whats happened? How can a company grade people on a point system? it should go on Attendance, Lateness, Disaplinaries, Absence, Non-contactables, etc now hearing some of the crew's in manchester talking today that have unfortunatley been told that they have to accept either 7/5 option or redundancy you class that as acceptable?
Points have been issued based on thank you letters from passengers give me a break mate! the guys and girls work very hard on the flights so there performance should not be graded on wheather some passenger has named them personally don't be so ridiculas!!!
Law states that when the age-ism ruling administered 2 years ago you have to take into account what i mentioned above not other stupid factors:=

[paul01942]

Further to the comments made I feel a terrible saddness at the way the staff at XL have been treated and for some of them today to be told they have two weeks left is an utter disgrace, I advise all of you in this postion now reading this to challenge you union rep and get as many answers as you possibly can to all you guys and girls that work on the B747/B757/B767 how many of you guys have been given the two options? my theory is that there will be considerably more B738 staff kept on than the rest of you! as the B738 will be the main stay of the fleet, now approaching the law the legal boundaries on that are in your favour as that is regarded as discrimination so please all of you get your union working for you, please don't lie down and simply accept what you think might be wrong, if the decision suits you best of luck to you, if it does'nt use your voice and ASK QUESTIONS best of luck to you all . :rolleyes:

[peterowensfanclub]

Paul ,
Point 1 Im not your mate, It did go on attendance etc.Points were first awarded for performance in your stated categories

2. Re Thank you letters.You are just repeating more galley fm that I have also heard. A final adjudication in a tie..maybe....unfair adjudication maybe.Thats for the individuals to fight if true. It may be , but not in the context you present ie the only criteria.

3. Your initial interpretation of the choices indicates that you clearly wouldnt have the grasp to be heavily involved in any consultation.It does represent a common misunderstanding amongst the cabin crew . But surely not a arbitration expert?Or are you just a militant 1 year wonder operating in the shadows of rumour under guise of helping people.

4. If you dont work for XL as I do then you are well informed but clearly by galley fm, therefore well informed with hearsay.

5. What next ..they are out to get ex AAE or this fleet or that. Do me a favour, so paranoid and quite frankly tiresome. It does go hand in hand with the thank you letters conspiricy.

Im sorry and bewildered to see some people go with dignity and not surprised at others who happen to be spouting the "letter" theory and bleating on about it.mmmm.You do the maths. Now stop presenting hearsay as fact. As you admit you dont work for XL therefore as I said its typical galley FM

Insensitive handling is unnacceptable I agree. There now we can be friends we agree on something.

[peterowensfanclub]

Paul
I made my long post before reading your last. How prophetic my fifth point was.
I rest my case.

[paul01942]

I feel so very sorry for the staff at XL and will be passing my concerns on to all the other members of Amicus and the T & G to see if they believe fairness has preveiled, congratulations to you peterowensfan! it seems you have got what you wanted and i do sincerley hope you continue in your role of work and do hope things work out well for you!
I saw people today coming out of an XL meeting crying there eyes out wondering how mortgages will be paid wondering how they will get through xmas that was'nt galley FM that was the harsh reality of this situation!
I'm sure in Gatwick and Manchester some people are rubbing there hands together as they have what they want, but that is not the case across the board and when i hear a young girl come out of a meeting un-consoleable being told that her attendance was good she had never been late or diciplined never been un-contactable but her downfall is that customer feedback was not as high as others, then i'm sorry thats not here say thats reality and unfortunately the law of this country states that you cannot be judged on that! galley fm does not come into it what comes into it is that YOUR collegues are being mi-informed and as a collective group instead of sitting back with the "I'm alright Jack" attitude you should stand together to help and console YOUR work collegues, that is what solidarity is.
Sorry if i seem to offend you that was'nt my intention you have given some excellent points, but i don't think all the XL staff that are quote on quote alright jack are giving any thoughts to the ones who are cruely falling apart. :sad:

[tartcart]

considering you seem quite to have a indepth knowledge of the procedure peterowensfanclub could you tell me that if i've received neither a meeting request or an email does that mean that i'm soon to be redundant? or if,ever i learn my fate?
thanks

[2engop]

I have a couple of questions:

1. Has anybody sort any legal advice yet?

2. I know of 1 person who only got a permanent contract this year, been grounded this year and has had plenty of sick days and being kept on no questions asked. I know another person who has been there 5 years, an excellent service record, no disciplinaries and has lost thier job because they have had a few memos. How is this selection being done? It sounds completely ridiculous and illegal, see question 1.

I for one will be visiting the CAB as a start.

[paul01942]

Thats what i urge you all to do the selection process has been done all wrong and i don't even work for you guys! please hound your union reps to get answers challenge decisions and don't agree to anything!
Sounds to me the people on here who are telling you all to stop moaning and stop making comments are the ones who are already sorted out.
Law's are put in place for a reason and looking at XL's conduct they have breached the law in there selection process.

[2engop]

I totally agree!!!!

[Excelsbest]

XL have done this for years and years. They should not be allowed to operate when putting people under these conditions. I would now like to see XL fold and as for a certain Trainer at Manchester lets just say she is getting her comeuppance now!! They scrimp and scrape at everything and its about time the CAA pulled the plug on them. They have no people skills and no don't show any attempt to better themselves other than to keep changing there name coz a new name has no BAD reputation with it??? I do genuinely feel sorry for most of the crew but surely you have not just had your heads in the clouds this was easy to spot a mile off what was going to happen. They are a complete shambles!!

[nesboy 1976]

Granted, XL do need to get some morales, but surely wanting them to fail as a business is not the way forward??
I was part of the training department up until recently so i've kinda got an interest in the outcome.

I really do hope that the contracts go to all the 'right' people, however by the sounds of it thats not happening.:(

Nesboy

[TFAME]

Hi,

Can I just say that, after flying with XL Airways via TCD for the last few years , I cannot praise the Cabin Crew more highly . Always very smart, attentive and pleasant . I travel with my elderly father and the cc are excellent with him. Its a crying shame , from what I have read on this post , that so many will be without jobs very soon .

Thank you from a very satisfied passenger.

TFAME.

[tartcart]

thanks tfame, nice to know we're appreciated somewhere!

48 hours after some people recievd there 'congratulations,you've been successful in keeping you job,blah,blah' some of us still haven't heard anything.

I'm not bitter or resentfull of anyone who's kept their job, I'm just becoming bitter towards the company for having so little regard for us that they don't even class us worthy of contacting us and instead have told us to wait for the post (hello? there's been a postal strike).

[willboy]

I have to second tfame's praise as someone who has experienced XL cabin crew through TCD holidays. Fantastic service from fantastic staff and I'm very sorry to hear of the redundancies. I do hope all works out in the end. I will be travelling next year again with TCD/XL and have been reading this forum with interest. A couple of people have said they hope the CAA pulls the plug on XL. Why would they do this, I have no knowledge of the aviation business? and is it a possibility that this could happen? I think it is a very selfish attitude to wish redundancy on EVERYONE which is what would happen if XL were to fold.

[nesboy 1976]

I can't see the CAA closing XL down for having no morales really! Now, if XL are really that much in the :mad: financially then the CAA may ask questions and see them unfit as a commercial business!

This, i imagine won't happen.

For all you crew who haven't heard either way yet about you jobs then i really do feel for you. After working for a few Airlines, XL's c/c were amongst the best (obviously you get the odd waster).

Good luck guys!:ok:

Nesboy

[Hover Overviewer]

For the CAA to pull the plug they would need one hell of a good reason.

Normally if the airline is not complying it is a slap on the wrist and given time to sort it out. The second time or non compliance with the previous slap on the wrist is a visit to the head master for the responsible manager of the airline for a sound thrashing. If that doesn't work then suspension of the AOC.

I have tried to make it sound as simple as possible but, it is in reality alot more complicated.

If we go back a few years it has been alleged that MYT should have had all of their CAA bonds/licenses pulled as they were not in compliance with CAA regs, ie they had no cash which led it is alledged to other carriers making representations to the CAA about their actions.

It's all political really

[peterowensfanclub]

Tartcart,
I dont have an indepth knowledge. Just the same as everyone else. What I am not doing is putting the galley FM spin on things.Unlike Mr paul who keeps claiming not to work for us but keeps spouting off like hes a legal expert and privvy to the finer points. As I said earlier ,the individuals have to fight find perciebed or real injustice via the right channels. To do that you must be objective.Good luck to those that do. I have already helped a few in the first stages of that process.

As for the handling of the process, notification in particular, i think its appalling as well. Even some that got good news got the wrong email first. That is a different issue to working people up with hearsay and second hand info.

Good Luck:ok:

[paul01942]

Mr Paul does not claim to be an expert Mr Paul deals with employment law and who was approached by several of your employee's and shown the documents given out by your company I claim to know nothing about XL nor do i want to as i have read the recommendations set forward by the company and they are flawed, to the point of boardering on being illegal, I'm not trying to put anybody down nor am i trying to be little anybody who offers the time to comment on here i think open debate is good.
What i won't listen to is people who have been sorted out given positions which are more than likely very well derserved telling people who have'nt and have been dumped on by the company to shut up and not have an opinion.

That was the point I was trying to get across, i have dealt with the legal process within companies for 10 years so trust me i have a fair knowledge:ok:

[paul01942]

Tartcart and all the other affected by this current problem within XL please if you are involved in a trade union seek the advice you have paid for with your dues and i do hope you all come out of this OK best of luck to you all from our entire Employment Law Team

[Nick22]

This is a memo we got few days ago :ugh: Got brand new crew bags few months ago but they are now "selling" the old ones.

How sad! What's next?? Purchase the old uniform :ugh::ugh:

BARGAIN PURCHASE
Crew trolley and Crew Bags for sale
Never been used and in perfect working order

Crew Trolley
£15.00 each

Crew Trolley Top Case
£15.00 each

Purchase both together for £20.00
A saving of £10.00!!

For further details or to purchase please contact [email protected]
([email protected]@xl.com)

[Cool Wavy NG738]

At it again Nick22? with your tactics of blurting out in-house memos on a public forum, if you are still at XL it's probably about time you moved on elsewhere if you are really that unhappy with things. :(

Sorry to be blunt, but you are doing nobody any favours and least of all yourself with your publicly embittered attitude, a lot of people at XL are suffering with the re-structuring, but at least most are doing it with a bit of dignity, might be an idea to acquire some for yourself.

[warkman]

At it again Nick22? with your tactics of blurting out in-house memos on a public forum, if you are still at XL it's probably about time you moved on elsewhere if you are really that unhappy with things.

Sorry to be blunt, but you are doing nobody any favours and least of all yourself with your publicly embittered attitude, a lot of people at XL are suffering with the re-structuring, but at least most are doing it with a bit of dignity, might be an idea to acquire some for yourself.

Actually, that information is available on other forums not just this forum.

A lot of passengers have suffered, but I suppose they don't matter to you eh?

[Picasa]

Bordering on illegal or illegal Mr Paul ??

Driving at 69mph in a 70mph zone is bordering on illegal, but its still legal - isn't it ?

[B744Driver]

Amaizing that a so called CEO would put out something like that..So, due to the global warming, travelers are not vacationing as before... jejeje:ugh: It's really a shame that an airline with so much potential is in that kinda shape, but that email tells you right there. You put an air head in charge, this is about the right return. :sad:
Good luck to all affected and I really hope somebody comes and turns the place around before it's too late.

[XLNicky]

Hey!

I worked for XL dub during the summer and loved every minute of it. And the welsh crew & canadian crew were great. It was a sunwing base so it was a C reg on the 737-800. As far as i am aware its a seasonal base. I'm pretty sure they wont give relocation money but if they dont get the crew numbers maybe. The crew over here were amazing. We got nightstops in Cork and Knock. and this season it'll be double the nightstops as theres more flights from NOC and ORK. I would love it if it became a full time base as its the best airline i've worked for and i loved every minute of it. As for base managers etc... i'm not sure!! you'll love it over here!!:)

[Stephen82]

:ugh::ugh:Oh my god I cannot believe that after making many redundancies and ending alot of temp contracts XL are already recruiting. They told staff that this was due to the company having to slim down. They havent even offered ex employees their jobs back.

Seems like a very Very unstable company and not a very nice one if they can stab their previous emplyees in the back like this

Nice one XL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[diesel36]

Not just XL Flyglobespan are the same....:ugh:

[Stephen82]

I know its so mad, well not nice companies, glad to be out of it if thats what they are about. A friend of mine was based at stn with globespan and was let go. Nasty :yuk:

[diesel36]

I know its a shame. We had a great time with the stn guys..:)

[iain8867]

I believe that under employment laws they have to offer the jobs to people made redundant first, if they accept then I don't know where they stand with keeping their redundancy monies as they are no longer redundant!

[Airbus321-200]

Has anybody applied for XL dublin yet???

I'm thinking about applying. Is it a perminant base??? Is there long haul flights??? I've applied for first choice as they have a perminant base in dublin on the 757/320. Anyone out there with any info????

[nesboy 1976]

Like all airlines XL have their problems. Not returning your emails is naughty mind. Have you tried to ring them?

I thoroughly enjoyed my (short) time working for them. I only left because i had a better offer. Made some goods friends in the short period i was there.

I also know a few of the dub crew from last year. The base manager isn't that bad and i just think she was trying to make a name for herself (whether that turned out to be a good move is yet to become clear).

Nesboy :)

[Airbus321-200]

your not the only one who cant get a reply from XL jucy lucy. They advertise everywhere for crew for dublin and when you apply its a UK application eg. NI number (a UK thing). Do they not know the Irish tax and national insurance rules?? they did have irish crew last yr didnt they?????

I've emailed several people several times and not one has replied. Dont think i'll continue my application. First choice here i come!!

[nesboy 1976]

Now thats a shame.

Nesboy

[Airbus321-200]

Hey i've posted in the XL thread but i think dublin should have there own thread.

Has anyone applied for XL dublin and heard back yet???

Many people are having problems apply (as am i)

[nesboy 1976]

Well i've got an Airline you can work for juicylucy! Naturally you'd have to be based in Cwl!!;)

You'll have to PM for details unfortunately though!:ugh:

Nesboy

[Airbus321-200]

Has everything gone quiet on the XL front???? Anyone got any news?

[RainbowChaser]

My friend got an invite today for interview in Dublin at end of Feb, was told to email [email protected] if he has any queries.........

[Unionjet28]

"They had alot of trouble with crew leaving and the Base Manager was supposedly a weapon - never ever in the office etc. etc"

Well perhaps the Base Manager was never in the office because she had to spend hours upon hours on top of her Managerial duties working as operating crew due to the ridiculous amount of sickness experienced at the DUB base last summer! ;)

[nesboy 1976]

"The Base Manager is a weapon"

What a load of rubbish. She is just firm and wouldn't take any :mad: off some of the supposedly 'experienced' crew that were in DUB last summer!

Nesboy

[troy101]

as i was one of those supposedly "experienced" crew operating out of dub last season let me clear some things up as its bizzare how some people think they know it all from listening too gossip,there were a few problems in dub,75%of the crew left too work for aer lingus just leaving a handful of crew too operate-yes crew did go sick but we all worked as a team the best we could too help each other out,base manager wasnt a weapon very fair and too the point.so too those who dont know nothing but gossip butt out!

[stardoll123]

I worked for Xl last summer and was lucky enough to escape to another airline. I agree that alot of crew left for Aer Lingus, however, alot left because of the way a certain senior cabin crew member and her side kick (the base manager) treated them. This particular senior would have hissy fits/tantrums and belittle junior crew in front of pax. That's a fact!!! This is not idle gossip.

[Flystar666]

Hey XL crew, was wondering if any of you guys know anything about some XL cabin crew completing a conversion course for Astraeus in the next few weeks, if so how many and does anyone know what they will be doing? Astraeus crew dont even know if we will have jobs this summer so its a bit of a kick in the shins if you know what i mean, hope you can help?

[nesboy 1976]

Troy - Wasn't having a go at all the Senior's based in DUB, just the one's that i know from experience are lazy and are quite good at causing unrest!:=

Didn't mean to offend.

JucyLucy - Congrats on the job.

Nesboy

[Unionjet28]

"its bizzare how some people think they know it all from listening too gossip,there were a few problems in dub"

What i said isnt Gossip, but fact. Ask Crewing in Gatwick.

Every carrier has its problems, and no airline is immune to bouts of sickness, but the fact is XL's base manager DUB covered more than her fair share of crew going sick.

[stardoll123]

Hey, Unionjet, Xl didn't have enough crew to start with so it was inevitable that the BM would have to fly. They could not recruit for DUB as the A/C was a Canadian Reg and the initial training lasted 7 weeks!!!!!! . The whole base was a total shambles. Crew only saw the A/C for the 1st time 2 or 3 days before their 1st flight. Service training was done from a piece of paper. Some crew did not know what a cart looked like until their 1st flight!!! Crew also had to call the UK all the time and had to pay for it themselves etc. etc.

[troy101]

wasnt having a dig what you were saying was actually sticking up for bm,i worked very closely with her throughout season so wont let any one bad mouth any one,enough said on the matter i think,as people read these forums and it dont take long too realise who is who and feelings need too be taken into consideration.

[RecallCentre]

XL DUB had problems!! 75% of crew sickness was because of the atmosphere created by some crew there! we all know who they were and when those persons weren't around for awhile the base changed over night! The base manager didnt help the situation by how crew were treated.And no one felt they could report the lazy ass crew who treated crew like s:mad:t. XL charged into dublin without even looking at a map!! The crew who did stay worked there backsides off doing 18 - 20 hr days and doing this days in a row! often spending 4hrs stuck in a 7 seater car with 7 other people. The least XL could have done was to get back to the amazing crew they did have last yr for jobs this year. but to the best of my limited knowledge this hasnt happend!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Maybe this year they'll wake up and listen to crew comments and hire more crew!! I seen more NCL crew than i did DUB crew!!

[air2bob]

My housemate works for xl seems the dub base is to be avoided at all costs by existing crew,the company have resorted to offering £600 to tempt people to transfer and still no one interested! The same can't be said of the larnaca base which has no money on offer yet crew falling over themselves to get this base! Not a surprise really know where i'd prefer to spend my summer!.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

"I thoroughly enjoyed my (short) time working for them. I only left because i had a better offer"

Bet the phones were hanging off the hook headhunting................:rolleyes:

[nesboy 1976]

"The crew who did stay worked there backsides off doing 18 - 20 hr days and doing this days in a row!"

Surely this is against FTL's?! I understand nobody wants to let anyone down but it is the crew's responsibility as much as the Company's to keep track of their hours and stay legal.:=

I too was in and around XL's head office last summer when the DUB base opened and unfortunately the feed back wasn't great. You can't put that down to the C reg aircraft and the 'lack' of service training though. It's the crew (flight and cabin) that make the base what it is.

Nesboy

[stardoll123]

Hi Nesboy, we had 2 such "normal" days like this. We would do a flight with a very early AM check-in and then position in a tiny 7 seater minibus (7 crew) to another airport in Eire which took 3-5 hrs depending on where you were going. As we were positioning after the flight there is no limitation on one's hours! Some crew wanted to fly down to ORK and paid for it themselves, however, the Base Manager refused to let them go, even though the F/D always did it. It was a nightmare!! DUB needed a good leader but, alas, the crew (majority 19-20 year olds & inexperienced) were left to fend for themselves with no assistance from XL!!!! Ask any of the GLA or NCL crew who HAD TO WORK ex DUB...... PS we were never given any FTL's!

[nesboy 1976]

Without wanting to fall out with you stardoll123, from what i can gather from your posts that you were based in DUB last summer?:ok:

I too was XL up until the end of last summer. I'm surprised you weren't given an FTL talk. From what i can remember of the C reg you were trained just to CAR's (canadian regs) as apposed to JAR-Ops?

That possibly explains why you did some funny hours as, from what i can remember again, the FTL's are slightly different?:ugh:

Your point about the younger crew being left to fend for themselves, unfortunately that's the real world. The end of the day XL are trying to run an airline not a creche! Granted though i agree with your comment, everyone needs a good leader!

I take it you won't be going back to DUB with XL this summer;)

Nesboy

[stardoll123]

Hi Nesboy, I left XL during the summer to work for another airline. I won't mention which one!! My point about the long hours was that XL didn't seem to give 2 hoots about their crew. They could have positioned crew to ORK or they could have put us on a larger bus or, they could have rostered 2 crews - one for the AM flight and one to position to ORK. Did you actually work for XL in DUB last summer or are you commenting on what you are reading without having actually experienced it first hand.....

[nesboy 1976]

You'll have to send me a PM Stardoll123 about your new airline!!

Never actually operated out of DUB. Was due to assist with the door training (slide drag) with the crew in Southend but that was cancelled. knew quite a few people who were based in DUB though ranging from the BM, Pilots and C/C.

Nesboy

[RecallCentre]

hi nesboy.

Hope not to offend but as you didnt experience DUB base 1st hand you'll probably think the ex-crew are going over the top with their comments but they're not!! FTL's???? huh????:ooh::ooh: i dont think XL crewing know of such a thing. I myself kept track of my hours and often called crewing to dispute my hours( while paying intl phone rates for the pleasure). 18-20 hour days were the norm!!! one of my days lasted 21hrs!! We were trained in CARS but JAR-ops as well. kinda a mix. But with the C-reg a/c crewing didnt know the rules. We as crew and Flight deck were working on the JAR-ops FTL's which are the most restrictive. Thats way a lot of F/D went out of hours very quickly. The crew who did stay worked harder than any XL base as the airline didnt plan DUB very well.

And you also say feedback for LGW wasnt good!!! is that pax comments??? or preformance of a/c?? could you clear this up. Its a pity you didnt come to southend, you would have met so many great people:)

I know there's alot of negitive comments about the base but this is for good reasons and as crew we like to get our way. But i've never been in a base like DUB 99% of crew amazing! alot of fun , some great nightstops and good nights out in DUB. It was like a little family and we were very proud to be flying for XL but there was a few bad apples in the orchard and hopefully they wont go back this year!!:)

Well done to all crew from DUB for a great summer :D:D:D:D

[nesboy 1976]

Recall Centre, no offence taken. Everyone is entitled to their own point of view. You have yours and i have mine, and this is not worth falling out over.

It does sound like XL didn't have a game plan with regards to DUB and hopefully this summer things will work out for them.

I'm no longer with XL, but i do still ahve some good friends there so here's to everyone having a good summer.:)

Nesboy

[casper99]

DUB is a fab Base

[casper99]

I do know a little bit about DUB so can say that most of the crew were fab and worked realy hard, as crew we know that we have to work long days!! its the same for EVERY airline,

The training was long but at least they got paid for it not like some other airlines, Its a small base and its normal not to get on the aircaft untill you have nearly completed your training and if fact they had a long time on the aircaft before they done there indoc flight- alot more than most.

The ones that are moaning are the one that had some thing to hide!!! and its just as well they have gone, bring on the new season with some of the great exsisting crew, Looking forward to working with you

[galleyman]

Hi there all you XL lovers!! Just wondering, what is the pay like as a Purser? No doubt you have to earn it no matter how much it is??!!:p