Friday 24th

[Captain Sherm]

A long day. Weary airline pilot picks up his trusty Parker to make another entry in the log book. Sighs……yes indeed, it is that time again, on Friday it will be August 24, 18 years since THAT day in THAT year. So much has happened, so many airlines, so many new and old friends, so many homes and of course so many hours in the beloved 777 which has kept him safe these long years.

Pilot reads PPrune….pilots hating pilots, pilots hating Jetstar, Qantas, Tiger, Virgin etc etc for no discernible reason. Still no single pilot union. Yet jobs everywhere in ways that could barely have been thought of 18 years ago.

Pilot sighs deeply. Since being invited not to be a part of the Australian airline scene 18 years ago unless he left his union, he has come to realize more deeply than ever that enthusiasm, professionalism and unity are the cornerstones of his world. With those three things all will work, without them, nothing else matters.

Pilot wonders whether there should be a “Dunnunda Good News” page on PPrune for those who are heartily sick of ignorant whingers who wouldn't know genuine hard times if they got bitten on the backside by one. Maybe. It is indeed just possible that Jetstar is not the complete embodiment of evil, that Branson is in fact a builder and a thinker, that Qantas is not riddled with a thousand corporate cancers, that Tiger will be good for the industry and create new jobs, that AIPA and the AFAP have lots of members and committee people actually doing their best. Its also possible that pilots should really go down a coal mine for a couple of days a year as part of their licence renewal, just to get their perspectives right.

Sigh….18 years….wouldn’t have swapped them for anything.

[kookabat]

Its also possible that pilots should really go down a coal mine for a couple of days a year as part of their licence renewal, just to get their perspectives right.

Hear, hear.

Perspective is a wonderful thing.

It's not ALL bad!

[greybeard]

Doesn't time fly when you are having fun, best 18 yrs of my 46 in Aviation.
I have seen and done things beyond my wildest expectations prior to '89, flown bigger, faster and higher (FL510) than I could have imagined, it is almost worth thanking some portions of our Aviation community for encouraging the process upon the rest of us.
I shall have a beer, recall old friends past and regrettably some gone, and go and give someone a check ride in the Simulator in good spirits.

sui generus

and for the unknowing it loosly means

"could be seen to be different" and I resemble that

:ok::ok::ok:

[Capt Kremin]

Capt Sherm. A thoughtful post tinged with a modicum of perspective, common sense and humanity??

What the HELL are you doing in here???!!?!?!!!?;)

[squawk6969]

I hear there is a coal mine in Utah right now, you could send a few in to dig a bit, hopefully find their workmates!

SQ

[Vorsicht]

Couldn't agree more.

As a colleague of mine use to say, "damn these diamonds are hurting my arse"

Now lets take some bets on how long before the inocuous thread title is discovered and it disolves into the usual sh!t slinging match.


V

[SmokingHole]

“Dunnunda Good News” page on PPrune for those who are heartily sick of ignorant whingers who wouldn't know genuine hard times if they got bitten on the backside by one.

Great idea - sadly I dont think it'll catch on. Whinging seems so addictive!:{

[tail wheel]

Vorsicht. Good post by Sherm, but if this thread goes down the usual track, expect Moderator intervention!

It's good to reminisce and contemplate one's achievements over the years, but history can't be changed.

Lets leave the animosity in the past.

Tail Wheel

[Valdiviano]

i could not agree MORE.
i though i was set for life, before 1989. i was pushed onto another field, ended up retiring 3 years ago at 52 (financially secured). Most of the courageous people found they could do much better.
What i find MOST disturbing in this pages, the mayority of wingeing posters, are the pilots of the future. i rather be DRIVING.

[gaunty]

Sherm, val, greybeard, squawk, kook et al as someone who was THE mod at the time trying to steer a steady course, 'twas a heady :uhoh: time indeed.

What I miss most is difference between the eloquent and educated debate from those directly affected and that from the arrivistes.

Who was right ? it seems from the below that there were "winners" from both sides.

If I had to come down on either side the "winners" had to be those who "lost". :\

Those who "won" have remained stuck in the Australian paradigm: good thing or bad depends on the perspective.

I think I know which way I would have jumped.

Doesn't matter, we do what we do and we have to live with the circs. ( too close to circumcision to me)

Either way life deals the cards and you play em as you see em.

We now live in a world where the sentiments of the the blow ins' reigns supreme, take what you can when you can and devil take the hindmost.

Was this inevitable or was that time a wake up to the "new" world.

If it was I'm glad that I'm a nanosecond away from picking up my doogs and going off to running a B & B somewhere, where I can pretend that life is really a worthwhile pursuit, as long as that lot dont steal the cutlery and fillings out of your teeth.

sui generis.

Lets leave the animosity in the past I've learnt and continue to do so, is total bulls hit, a priqk is a priqk is a priqk from either side. We all now know who is who in the zoo and we hope are mature enough to deal with them .

[maui]

Tail Wheel et al

You are absolutely correct, history cannot be changed.

It is sad to see though, that the lessons of history are not being heeded, as we plunge deeper and deeper into the abyss.

What is it in our make up that requires us to relearn over and over again?

I'll have a couple of pints of that generis stuff thanks.
Maui

[Nil defects]

Happy Anniversary! 18 years has gone by pretty quickly.

I still like to remind a certain Captain his final words as we got off our last flight during the dispute - "this will blow over in a couple of days"

[SOPS]

I would like to remind a certain person who said.."This will all be over by Christmas":)

[Capitaine72]

Sherm,

Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done!!!! :ok::ok::ok:

[OpsNormal]

gaunty. Whatever happened to that 10 year anniversary thread? Am lead to believe it was archived somewhere in a vault. There was a lot of vitriol, in fact I am sure it was one of the pivotal turning points in the way many posted on pprune, but bearing that in mind there was much that was "good" written within the (gawd knows how many) pages.

In my best Forrest Gump voice: "Was you Lieutenant Daannnnn?" :eek::eek::eek: ;)

[rossilinni]

Do you guys honestly expect any sympathay.

The industry in 89 was a sheltered government duopoly - fat , cosy , subsidised , expensive to travel. The public was delighted at the strong stance Hawke took and wanted to see the back of the pilots ASAP.

Along with all other airline workers the pilots were overpaid for their skill set. Not much flying big paychecks great perks - much like the conditions QF CC managed to hang onto for too long.

Get over yourself guys it takes 16 months to take a Uni or School leaver and have them sitting in a 737 - BA and Luftansa have proven that. It is a trade not a profession - be proud of what you are - but don't put yourself in the same league as medicos , lawyers , degree engineers. Lets face it very very few pilots would have cracked med school.

[Going Boeing]

And very few medicos would have cracked pilot training - diferent skills required.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"Lets face it very very few pilots would have cracked med school"

I don't think that is true!

"And very few medicos would have cracked pilot training"

and that even less so!

...... but its a pretty senseless debate!

When I step aboard an airliner, I expect the people occupying rows 0A and 0B to be smart, knowledgeable, highly trained and have the inate sense of what is or what should be that only "experience" brings ...... and they should be paid appropriately for the job they do and the level of responsibility they have.

In the past, some levels have been overpaid, but when our gardeners are paid more that FO's on 2nd level RPT, things have clearly swung too far to the other extreme.

Dr :cool:

[SOPS]

Had to happen..post 16 and smeone is trying to start sending this thread down...........:ugh:

[rossilinni]

Well I would bet that at least 85% of medicos could become airline pilots - do you think they would regard ATPLs as any sort of challenge- it is kindergarden stuff boys.

What % of pilots could become medicos - clearly less than 1% - it is just that little requirement - called finishing in the top 1% of your state to gain a spot at med school.

Agree that many regional pilots are presently underpaid no argument from me there.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"What % of pilots could become medicos - clearly less than 1% - it is just that little requirement - called finishing in the top 1% of your state to gain a spot at med school"

That is no longer true in Oz. Most medical school places in Oz are now graduate entry, and even for those that direct entry from highschool - top 20% will give you a good shot.

You will just have to take my word for it - I am in a position to know what I am talking about!

Dr :cool: (non-medico)

[Spaz Modic]

Gentlemen, and the odd lady.
Regrets - I've had a few.
But standing with the 78% isn't one of them.
Courage and decency - now that's a legacy worth striving for - and the 78% have it.
Well done!
24th August - every year - Memorial Day:)

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Hang on a minute!

Now that I think about it.

I knew a guy once - dumb as dog sh*t!

Made Captain on DC9 with TAA!

Dr :cool:

[ScottyDoo]

Hey Tortellini,

Sounds like you wish you got into medical school but didn't cut the mouse-turd at high school.

So you tried to become a Quantas pilot but didn't have passes in physics and mathematics. Maybe even English.

Have you tried the manly art of hostying?

This whole "pilot vs professional" thing is nothing new. It comes up on pprune every year or two during a slow week. Please try harder to wind up the incumbents.


yawn.................... :zzz:

[Valdiviano]

What I remember most of my instructing days, DENTIST and DOCTORS where the MOST unsuitable student pilots. Probably very intelligent, BUT very uncoordinated. A doctor can HIDE his mistakes, a pilot CAN NOT.

[HotDog]

So you tried to become a Quantas pilot but didn't have passes in physics and mathematics. Maybe even English.

Hey Scotty, you are obviously not a "Quantas" pilot as well nor a doctor, as in either case if you were, you would be able to spell QANTAS properly.:suspect:

[Lord Flashhart]

Hotdog,

Scotty got it right. Hate to tell you but there is no YOU in QUANTAS.

LOL Me thinks he is baiting you.

:E

[SOPS]

Thread Drift Alert:}

[019360]

Am up early this particular 24th and this hotel has the National Geographic channel. So one more time I am getting to see the Sioux City story.
If you don't know what the Sioux City story is.....stop what you're doing and get onto Google.
Truth is, that happened at about the same time as the dispute and has far more defined my life than anything Hawke ever did. Everyone of us has been touched by that wonderful piece of airmanship, almost unmatched ever. My life has been one of "I hope I could be that good" ever since. Professional airmanship of that order is the goal we all should have. Squabbling and angst help little.
Happy 24th, may there be many more safe anniversaries.

[Jimmy Thudpucker]

18 years ago, i came back from a school camp to find my family sitting around the table looking very sombre. i was just about to find out that my little world was going to get shaken...A lot!

Some of my of the frineds that i grew up with ended up in Saudi, Malaysia, Dubai, or more sadly, on the other end of fights in the shool yards defending our fathers over things we really didn't understand.

While there is an enormous amount of vitirole spewed forth on these forums - and i have been reading and contributing to them for many years, althoug this is my first in a long while - it is most distrubing to note the number of comments that run something along the lines of "... it was 18 years ago, get over it..."

I can't "get over it" as it was a defining even in my and my families life that changed my perspective on many things, not least of which was my desire to fly commercially. For right or wrong, many families broke up, many friends never spoke again, and many lives were changed permanently.

there have been some great things come out of the dispute though. Many pilots got opportunities to fly in parts of the world and on aircraft they never imagained they would, many families were able to travel more than they could have hoped, and many young Australian pilots got chances to fly in Australia early than might other wise have been possible.

The '89 dispute changed many lives for good and bad, and deserves to be noted for what it is, a significant event in the history of Austrlalian Aviation and industrial relations that should not be repeated again.

I will conclude by noting this. i now work with communities that have some of the highest rates of communicable dieseases anywaywhere in the world. Communities, that on the World Health Organisation health indices rank in the bottom 15 populations in the world. Communities that have some of the lowest literacy, numeracy skills in the developed world.

And these communites are here in Australia, in the heart of this great land. If there another diatribe about how hardlife is for australian pilots i think i will be phyiscally ill. The incomes and education that many of you have (i am talking pre AND post disupte pilots here) are privileges not shared by many in the developed world, and even fewer in the developing world.

Cheers

Jim

[HotDog]

Lord Flash, I think you better re-read Scotty's post and my tounge in cheek reply again.:confused:

[morning mungrel]

Sorry Rev, I just can't help it. TONGUE, my friend, TONGUE.:)

[fl610]

Quote 019360

"Am up early this particular 24th and this hotel has the National Geographic channel. So one more time I am getting to see the Sioux City story.
If you don't know what the Sioux City story is.....stop what you're doing and get onto Google.
Truth is, that happened at about the same time as the dispute and has far more defined my life than anything Hawke ever did. Everyone of us has been touched by that wonderful piece of airmanship, almost unmatched ever. My life has been one of "I hope I could be that good" ever since. Professional airmanship of that order is the goal we all should have. Squabbling and angst help little.
Happy 24th, may there be many more safe anniversaries. "


Well said short man. :ok::ok:

[019360]

Well said Jimmy Thudpucker....some Moderator should make this a sticky

[bushy]

Our Federal govt is just finding out about what you describe. At first they were going to spend "tens of millions" to fix it. Soon it was "500 millions over five years". Now it's "500 million this year"
They are learning about what an army of professionals in the outback have been trying to fix with meagre resources for decades.
And light aircraft are essential to help do it.

[Slasher]

I for one have no regrets of 89 and being part of the 78%. In the ensueing 18 years since I left Aust Ive made more loot than Id ever hope to make, sh@gged more exotic chicks than I thought posible, and dont have to put up with any tax, ASIC, or Smiths Dick nonsence.

[amos2]

A very interesting and appropriate thread, that will no doubt be replicated in two years time, and so it should be.

Some good posts by the likes of Sherm, who started the thing, followed by Greybeard, Tailwheel, Gaunty, Spaz Modic [wot sort of moniker is that?]
and Jimmy Thurd...

and then we get the Turd, Rossilinni... Strewth, wot a Donkey! Say no more!

Followed by, unfortunately...SLASHER...

who proceeds to tell us how he's made heaps of loot, shagged heaps of tarts, and thinks the devastation of 89' is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Get with it, Mate. This is not about you, and money, and shagging tarts, it's about people.

Some years ago you asked us to vote on whether you should be part of this forum, we said no, and you shoved off!

So, why don't you just shove off again?

[tipsy2]

Oh Dear, Slash cops a mouthfull 'cos he dared to comment.

Nothing changes:yuk:

tipsy:D

[Fantome]

AUGUST 24

You could say age shall not weary, nor the years contemn.

You could say Billy Hobday, et al, in memoriam, till the going down of the sun.

But if you cannot say we shall remember them . . . . say nothing.

(Who asks does err. Who answers errs.)

[maui]

Jimmy Thudpucker

You are exactly right, not to get over it. It has been a hard lesson, and those who call for us to get over it will surely fall when they are put to the test. Learn from history in order not to repeat it.

As you eloquently put the case against our disgraceful treatment of our indigenous cousins, and as you bring light and heat to their lives, we all need to assess the priorities in our lives. The reality is that hard as the dipute was, it pales into insignificance when compared to the battle that some in our community have to endure.

Sui Genaris

[ScottyDoo]

You could say age shall not weary, nor the years contemn.

You could say Billy Hobday, et al, in memoriam, till the going down of the sun.

But if you cannot say we shall remember them . . . . say nothing.

You could if you wanted to exhibit the absolute height of bad taste by comparing to '89 to '15, but I really hope you don't.

[tipsy2]

You could say age shall not weary, nor the years contemn.

You could say Billy Hobday, et al, in memoriam, till the going down of the sun.

But if you cannot say we shall remember them . . . . say nothing.

Not only bad taste but ignorance as well.

Certainly not "The Ode" I use.

Mind you it is used for people that by their actions have ensured that such bad taste and ignorance is available to todays citizens.

tipsy:=

[Spaz Modic]

Nothing wrong with re-orienting an ode to send a similar yet different message.

I am confident the focus of the Ode to the fallen, namely the fallen, would not be happy to know the 24th August 1989 heralded the death throes of a profession by the means exhibited, nor by the actions of the 22%.

The exacerbation of the professional downgrade of airline pilot continues with the behaviour of the AIPA, born out of a group of the self-serving, rather than focus on the good of the profession and those in it.

As predicted in 1983. ;)