Hangarage and fuel costs...

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hi - I've recently been offered the chance to hire a privatly owned C152 for £40 dry on the basis that I pay for hangarage costs, fuel and oil.

I've already contacted the airfields ground services for a quote on fuel and hangarage but as Ive never done this before I was wondering if there are any other costs that I could inccur?

Also, what reasonable price is fuel and hangarage these days?

Another issue that this offer brought up is that of insurance, I know that with club membership you get covered so if im not a member of a club how does this work? Do i have to get out personal insurance? Who's the best?

If there are any other issues that you think i should be aware of please let me know!

Thanks

Ian

[pulse1]

That is equivalent to a wet rate of about £80 an hour on avgas. That would be quite a good rate for a rental 152 but I would imagine that hangarage costs would make that quite expensive unless you are planning to do a lot of flying.

You may also need to consider landing fees.

[Ian_Wannabe]

Yeah I thought as much.

Thing is, I need to do hour building as and when I can fit it around my full time job. So im trying to weigh up the costs of having an aircraft without having to worry about it being booked up on my very few days off!

So you say fuel is about £40p/hr... anyone else experienced in this field?

Just so you know it would be based at Hawarden so if there are any pilots from Hawarden with their own aircraft i'd be very grateful if you could get in touch to show me the ropes.

Kind regards

Ian

[pumper_bob]

Ian, i think what you are talking of is a dry monthly lease. Singh at Falcon air will do you that sort of deal at a similar price. You need to ask if, and i strongly suspect this will be the case, you are obliged to pay for x hours/month. Usually this will be 30-40 hours/month. Singh will let you have a 152 on 30hr contract, so you pay £1200/month, if you dont use all the hours a roll over agreement can usually be made. As for hangarage, why not park it on the grass? A 152 will live quite happily out doors and as it doesnt belong to you why incur the extra expense?
I would say the figures would probably work out something like this:-
1. Parking - £100 (including landings@ a small grass field)
2. fuel £900 (25ltrs/hr x 30hrs x £1.20)
3. Lease £1200.
4. Sundries £200 (Oil,Cleaning,etcetc)
So that comes out at £80/hr. Not bad considering you have control of the plane, but if your'e hit with a long down time, work commitments, bad weather, or other reasons, except for fuel the other charges will continue to acrue. Also tech issues, maintenance have to be discussed. On the other hand if you go to a club and propose some kind monthly account or other arrangement, then i think you would be able to get that rate or cheaper for sure.
Have a look at Full Sutton Flight Centre! C150@ £70/hr Wet and only £65/year membership! and they have two planes at that rate, one is even an aerobat!
Basically i would want two or three other pilots with an agreed financial commitment in place (Acompany bank account for example) before i whent down the route you are thinking of.
Whatever you do, have safe and fun flying!
PB.

[Ian_Wannabe]

Pumper - Thanks, some good points to discuss thanks for your help.

I dont imagine that i'd be able to afford to fly that many hours in a month though, is it not uncommon for less hours to be arranged?

[pumper_bob]

It is more than unsusual, its unheard of:sad: Most clubs, rental company's etc want to see minimum of 30hr/mnth. To be honest, i think its more likely that 40 will be asked for and 30 agreed, but only after a lot of bartering!
I would suggest you try getting a deal out of your local flying school. Some zero capital groups might also welcome you if you want to do your hour building during the week! Trouble is cheap flying comes at a cost!
Cheers PB.

[Ian_Wannabe]

Okay - so any ideas on insurance should I not get a deal with a flying school?

Thanks guys

[coodem]

Just join a "no equity" group
I pay £50 a month and around £67 per hour wet for a PA28 or around £57 for the diamand katana

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey Coodem - Please explain for a novice...

Thanks

[coodem]

Basicly I joined a syndicate. I pay a £50 a month fee which covers parking and insurance (fixed costs) I/The other members get access to a PA28 and a Katana, there is an online booking system, we book up slots and go fly for a fixed rate previously mentioned.

There is no risk, no cash upfront. We don't have to commit to so many hours a month, some months I fly 1-2 hours, others 10-20.

We have around 20 members, this sounds a lot, but remember there are 2 planes. most people fly on weekends, a lot of the members do less than 5 hours a year.

The other benefit is we often share trips, this gets us further for cheaper and we all end up learning from each other.

I would go down to your local airfields and see what is for offer, usually there are loads of flyers/ads about, if not speak to people, even put up a flyer yourself.

I must admit, most groups want you to buy a capital share, but there are a few that don't

I hope this makes sense

[gasax]

From the type of questions you are asking I would suggest you get down to a couple of local airstrips and talk to the owners. You'll get some decent information which relates to your local area. It is very difficult to do this from the net as there are so many gottchas dependng where you are based.

The costs above are potentially coreect - but your local situation will vary.

To be blunt hours building is not that popular with clubs or groups. The group I was in threw out 2 hours builders - they simply were not looking after the plane whilst they racked up the hours and maintenance costs.

Leasing is a possibility but as has already been mentioned they want to see a reasonable return on their capital and that means hours flown. So 40 hours a month barely does that.

Some in your position have bought cheap permit aricraft and sold them on when they got the hours they needed. With a good purchase this makes a lot of sense - but you need to know what you're buying, how to run your own aircraft and have the money tied up for a period. This is probably the cheapest method - but you need to know what you're doing. From your posts I'm guessing that would mean help from someone who has been through this sort of process. Believe me owning an aircraft is a great way of emptying your wallet!

My advice would be to set up a deal with a local flying club - it avoids all the things which you don't know about and all those associated risks. In the short and medium term it will probably be the cheaper and certainly the easier option.

[IO540]

Surely the best way to build hours is to go to Arizona, rent some piece of wreckage, and fly it back and forth between two airports for a couple of weeks.

What a bogus system we have, getting people to "build hours" :ugh: What matters is experience, not hours.

[gasax]

I'll not argue - but when did logic ever come into anything about aviation legislation?

My last vlaidation was with an instructor who had half the number of hours I have - but perhaps somewhat more importantly had never flow more than 200 miles from his base, never flown anything other than a c152/172, in another country, a couple of times from grass, etc etc

It did sorta make me wonder....

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey guys - thanks for the replies i'm starting to build a picture now...

I reckon what I'll do is speak to the guy about what he wants from me in return and speak to my local flying school and see what they offer.... then weigh up the pros and cons

Cheers

[Hen Ddraig]

If you are looking at Hawarden. Current Avgas price is £1.30/litre for based aircraft, Hangarage about £125/month and landing fee :{£19.42 at weekend, slightly less in the week. They will insist on full insurance cover to £5,000,000.
You would be better off with the NWMAS rental aircraft.;)
Hen Ddraig
Time to spare, go by air