Today in history

[fractional]

27 years ago today, on August 19, 1980, a Saudi Arabian Airlines Lockheed L-1011-1 Tristar burned up after an emergency landing at Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. All 301 passengers and crew aboard were killed.

[inverter]

May the soles of the victims rest in peace!

[411A]

Well actually, it was a -200 aircraft, but burned up nevertheless.
Not much was said about the very tragic accident for quite a long time by SV management, but the burned out hulk was left for all to see at the old Riyadh airport, and this seemed to have the desired effect.

TriStar...a superb aeroplane, but if you don't operate it properly, bad things can happen.:sad:

[fractional]

411A, you are right. It was a -200. Here is one of the few pieces of information saying so.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w19800819.htm

[Ibn Kalb]

That's terrible.

Can someone explain to a piece of SLF such as myself the technical reasons for how this happened?

[kingoftheslipstream]

What the hell is to be gained by dredging up this dreadful accident? Jesus H. Murphy haven't you folks got anything better to do?

[chainsaw]

scanscanscan advises against burning fine hydraulic mist under pressure, and

please do not try this in your flat :eek:

Phew............lucky for me that I haven't got any household appliances that need 3000 psi hydraulic pressure to operate them then I guess. :ooh:

On a more serious note, this accident was indeed tragic. And as 411A rightly points out, the TriStar is a superb aeroplane, but if you don't operate it properly, bad things can happen. Same goes for a lot of other aircraft types too, I'm afraid. :(

[Wiley]

Listening to CVR in the (was it? - maybe an exaggeration) almost half hour they taxied up and down the runway after landing while the pilots dithered is heartbreaking. The female English Purser repeatedly asks the captain to stop and get the pax off, but he goes all (how shall I put it?) 'male' on her and refuses to listen to a woman.

[L1011]

Tragic accident (aren't they all) and only one of four Tristar hull losses if memory serves. This was the second, Eastern 401 being the first and only for many years.
Controversial too. A Brit TV station (Grenada?) did a piece on it that was rather inaccurate.
Wiley, I think you will find that your comment Listening to CVR in the (was it? - maybe an exaggeration) almost half hour they taxied up and down the runway after landing while the pilots dithered is not correct.
If memory serves me right the aircraft and taxied the full length of the runway before coming to a stop. the doors were never disarmed, the outflow valves were closed and an evacuation was never ordered.
One possible conclusion is that all the crew were incapacitated due to smoke by that stage. The aircraft landed itself (Cat 3C - way ahead of its time) and the Autobrake brought it to a stop.
Bob Helmreich (of NASA and UT) wrote a paper on it, but I cannot find it anywhere. Sad story and a warning to us all.

[Earl]

It sure was not discussed much at Saudia.
But the emphasis on after landing flows was increased, quite a lot.
Even years later, speedbrakes, revesers, brake pressue, N1 limit and outflow valves open for the F/E.
This carried over into the 747 also and soon became the norm.

[411A]

Oh dear, just a couple of slightly inaccurate details, regarding -HK.

Although the TriStar can indeed 'land itself' (and quite superbly, too) it did not do so on this occasion, as the runway (12) was not served by an ILS.
No autobrake either, the SV regular line TriStars were not so equipped.
The Flight Engineer had the pressurisation mode selector in standby and as such, the outflow valves did not open automatically, as they would normally do otherwise, after landing.
Therefore, the doors could not be opened (acft pressurized) on the ground with the engines still running, which they were.
The aeroplane touched down normally, and exited the runway near the end.
Fire services were on hand quite quickly, and it is suspected that the FD crew were rapidly overcome by smoke and fumes.

Were mistakes made by the crew?
Undoubtedly so, however the finer points are somewhat obscure, and were the subject of a detailed review by SV management, with adjusted crew training procedures as a result.

[scanscanscan]

I recall the BBC did the TV documenatary... and the actors used only the words on the CVR....it did not show anything after short finals.
The final accident report had not been published and I have never been able to get hold of a copy if it ever was.
Discussion on this incident was banned in GF and the lips of the expat flight safety officer were also sealed.
He told me we would be terminated if we discussed it.
The reality was L1011 pilots were watching a copy of the BBC video in their Bahrain flats within 48 hours of the UK BBC showing...as always looking to learn and possibly prevent another incident....of course nobody discussed it.

[metro301]

Saudia is now talking about it in their indoc and recurrent safety courses. Airplane landed and was brought to a stop, still pressurized engines running, crew over come by smoke, no one was able to open the doors.

Not sure if it is accurate or not but that is what is being taught at Saudia now.

[411A]

Saudia is now talking about it in their indoc and recurrent safety courses. Airplane landed and was brought to a stop, still pressurized engines running, crew over come by smoke, no one was able to open the doors.

Generally correct, and is supported by the investigation performed by Lockheed folks (among others), a few I knew personally.
The specific ignition source of the fire is still unknown.
However, for the fire to have been propagated by skydrol 'mist', the ignition source would have had to have been very hot, and not even engine two N3 bleed air is hot enough.

[scanscanscan]

I was told the fire source was underfloor rear cargo roof area...hyd mist under pressure ignited by electrical short.
Cabin crew used all the fire extinguishers in attempts to put it out.
Cockpit crew died after removing their masks to exit the flight deck.
Emergency drill for landing on water and crash landing were combined and followed ..thus the valves were manual and shut.
Also told everyone thought dead on or very shortly after touchdown as cockpit crew only ones on O2...several bodies found crowding the doors.
Aircraft depressurised after the O2 cannisters caused roof burn through...at about this time forklift driver battered in L1 door.
B team fire team in flip flops delt with the L1011 as A team with the boots were supervising a HRH departure...also told L1011 was delayed landing due HRH departure....brilliant if Saudi can now talk about it.
May they RIP and we that continue learn from their bad luck.
Nice to see you again 411A...I do not care what they say about you...you are a star in my book...and dead right..may you live forever.

[Mustapha Rex]

And here 's me thinkiing it was caused by a bedouin trying to make gahwa over a small coal fire...

Oh well, I guess I wasn't wrong after all it was still a local but instead of making coffee he just did not read his procedures.

I guess its all OK now since he was local and no one has to divulge or accept responsibility, so what's new?

Oh yes things are getting better in the Gulf....or worse?

[scanscanscan]

Bad luck mate... the F/e was an American...... and the CVR had the Saudi Captain telling the young Saudi F/o he was a donkey....anyone following the published combined drill would have had the valves manual and closed....unless they thought it through under pressure....GF had seperate drills for crash landing and landing on water having been G reg..and BA trained.

[ironbutt57]

the captain telling the f.o. he was a donkey??? the proverbial pot calling the kettle black..I knew a fellow that did that while back about 45 sec's before landing a Metroliner gear up..any truth to the rumour the FE was dyslexic???

[L1011]

OK Bob, I'll stand corrected. Did not know thw runway was non-ILS and that SV did not have autobrake. My company did on the -500s, throught it was standard in the -200s too.
Wish I could dig up that paper - it refuted much of the Saudi-slagging that the TV story and subsequent gossip has spread.

Anyone out there know if the accident report was ever published? Surely if SV is talking about in ground school there must be something in writing?
All in all a sad day for the possibly the best airplane ever built. And that's the ONLY thing 411A and I will ever agree on;)

[411A]

..any truth to the rumour the FE was dyslexic?
Mildly so, yes, and this came directly from someone who knew him quite well.the captain telling the f.o. he was a donkey?
Also true, it seems, but this is rather odd (besides not being all that good CRM, which was sadly lacking by some of the more senior local Commanders at the time, apparently) as I personally found that nearly all the local First Officers were very well trained and had sufficient experience, as they did quite a reasonable time on the B737, prior to setting foot in the L10.
Now, looking at the possible ignition source, I recall the RJ incident at SIN (-500 acft) with the number two generator feeder problem, and suspect this could have been a possible scenario, as I knew the Commander on that particular flight personally (top shelf guy) and contained the difficulty in quick time, by shutting down number two engine, pronto.

[Wiley]

I'm not about to put money on my comment about the English female Purser strongly suggesting to the captain some time after touchdown that they should open the doors and get everyone off, (and her being ignored), but I saw and heard this in a dramatised reconstruction that was shown to us all on a CRM course some years ago now, (where the FE's astigmatism was also mentioned as a possible contributary factor).

I can only surmise that any such reconstruction would have been a more or less faithful reproduction of the VCR - one of the few peices of the aircraft apart from the wheel bogies and outer wings to survive the fire. Anyone else out there with a better memory than mine who can recall the film and can put me straight on this point?

Apologies if I'm falling into 'Monday morning quarterback' mode now, but whatever the reason for the final, tragic outcome, this accident is yet another good example of the unassailable fact that you can be double quessed and criticised by every expert in the book - (each with three weeks to pore over every sub paragraph in every book in his library) - for a too early/unnecessary evacuation where there's fire or smoke involved. However, you'll have ten or fifteen mostly LIVE pax suing you for their 'unnecessary' broken legs and heart attacks as opposed to facing lawsuits from the families of 300+ dead passengers.

[ATCO1962]

I'm not sure if this is a comprehensive transcript, but it does show a little of the confusion that led to this disaster: http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cvr800819.htm

A few years ago, I had an aircraft call with a smoke/fire indication in the cockpit and I did everything I could to direct him to the nearest field, but the pilot chose to continue to destination. Without knowing all the details, I won't be choosing to fly on that airline in the future.

I really don't mind my holiday being messed up by a precautionary divert due to a faulty indication.

Fly safely, gentlepeople.

[ironbutt57]

There's never a "small fire"...at sea or in the air.... "and to an even greater degree than the sea, aviation is terribly unforgiving of any incapacity or neglect" fire warnings or indications thereof are only to be deemed false once on the ground and safely out of the aircraft....while Boeing's "new philosophy" is "read and do" as far as the evacuation checklist is concerned...we all have a very good reason to be thoroughly familiar with it...God bless the innocent lives that were lost...may we never cease to learn from these unfortunate occurences..