Instrument approaches under VFR

[Islander Jock]

Had a funny situation today.
A GA pilot flying on an o'seas licence (Day VFR only) was talking about doing an instrument approach at his next destination. I queried this but he said his instructor told him, as long as it is in VMC, he is permitted to do it.

To my mind, if you are flying an approach on instruments, you would at least require a second pilot acting as lookout whilst you have your eyes firmly glued on the scan.

Sure you may be able to practice the procedure but then, that procedure is specifically for aircraft approved for and flying under IFR.

Any thoughts?

[SmokingHole]

So long as he flies the "outline" of the proceedure visually, maintaining a good lookout with broadcasts, can't see a problem

[the wizard of auz]

Any thoughts?
Yup, generally involving bourbon and naked wimen. :}:E

[Roger Copy Ta]

CAO 40.0
2.7 The holder of an aeroplane pilot licence must not practice instrument flying in
an aeroplane while the aeroplane is flying under the V.F.R. unless:
(a) either:
(i) the holder also holds a command aeroplane instrument rating that is
appropriate to the aeroplane; and
(ii) the aeroplane is equipped with the flight instruments required by
CASA under subregulation 177 (1); and
(iii) the aeroplane is equipped with fully functioning dual controls; and
(iv) the other control seat is occupied by a person who holds a pilot
licence, other than a student pilot licence, and a type or class
endorsement for the aeroplane; and
(v) the person has sufficient vision from the aeroplane to enable him or
her to safely fly the aeroplane in visual flying; or
(b) the holder is accompanied by an authorised flight instructor.

End of discussion.

[CHAIRMAN]

Not necessarily - was he conducting INSTRUMENT FLYING - or visually flying and instrument approach profile as said earlier.

[SmokingHole]

I have flown most of the approaches at my "home" aerodrome visually by day in order to see exactly where they take you in relation to the surrounding potential obstacles and to know what to expect to see when breaking visual.
I guess you have to question this guy's motives as to "what are you really up to?". Especially if he holds no instrument rating.:cool:

[Bendo]

Would the outcome be any different if he flew those tracks by chance, inbound from the training area?

He wasn't flying under the Instrument Flight Rules or performing any task that required an instrument rating. He was really performing an exercise in NDB or VOR orientation by flying a published pattern.

When you have to be really careful is if the stude is a risk-taker, the kind that is really picking your brains on IF approaches so he can go and do them illicitly and be a clever dick.

Had one of those once, he still regularly appears in ESIRS :sad:

[Islander Jock]

Thanks for the clarification guys,
Roger Copy Ta, excuse my laziness for not consulting CAOs myself but I think you have provided the solution I was thinking of. In this case the following sub paras are not being complied with:

(i)the holder also holds a command aeroplane instrument rating that is
appropriate to the aeroplane; and

Pilot is on a C ov V restricted to day VFR only


(iv) the other control seat is occupied by a person who holds a pilot
licence, other than a student pilot licence, and a type or class
endorsement for the aeroplane; and

This guy is flying around the country on his own

[Capt Fathom]

Not quite Jock!
Comply with EITHER (a) OR (b)
CAO 40.0
2.7 The holder of an aeroplane pilot licence blah blah blah...unless:
either:
(a) (i) the holder also holds a command aeroplane instrument rating that is appropriate to the aeroplane; and (ii) (iii) (iv) (v) blah blah blah
or
(b) the holder is accompanied by an authorised flight instructor.

(If only (a) applied, how would you train for an Instrument Rating?)

[Islander Jock]

g'day Capt,

Agreed, but he doesn't have (iv) either. which is one of the essential elements and the point I was trying to make.

I am not saying it can't be done rather it can't be done under these particular circumstances.

[AerocatS2A]

Islander Jock you still haven't addressed whether he was flying on instruments or not.

The quoted CAO does not prohibit maintaining attitude and terrain clearance visually (i.e., VFR in VMC) while using a nav aid for precise tracking guidance.

It's no different from VFRs recieving tracking guidance from a GPS.

[Islander Jock]

Whether he was flying with sole reference to instruments I don't know as I wasn't in the aircraft with him. It was certainly VMC at the time.
If the guy is supposed to fly VFR then surely that includes how he arrives in the circuit? Splitting hairs and being a bit pedantic I know.

[ovum]

He can do what he wants if he's not conducting instrument flying (under a hood or IMC) and joins the circuit in the appropriate manner. There are many instrument approaches that involve heights, tracks and distances that remain well clear of the circuit until probably half way inbound.

All he should do is broadcast is that he's airworking on the navaid overhead the aerodrome and then can fly whatever tracks, distances, time intervals etc that he wants provided he doesnt infringe the circuit. A good lookout is all that is needed and some situational awareness.

That regulation has absolutely nothing to do with VISUAL flying in Day VMC. It refers to using IF hoods under the VFR.

[*Lancer*]

The CAO refers to actual instrument flying, not to procedure flying. If the pilot can look out the window and conform to all the VFR requirements there's nothing wrong with it. :8