Tricresylphosphate

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I have been hearing a bit on the dangers of tricresylphosphate (Turbine engine oil) and was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction on information. The stuff I have from the House of Lords and the Senate inquiry have very differing views.The MDSS is very explicit but would be given the liability factor. Is this a beat up by lawyers looking for money? Or are there very real long term health implications?

Thanks

[pithblot]

I've also often heard that synthetic turbine engine oil is toxic, whatever way it gets into or onto the body. I haven't been able to check it out - I just avoid exposure - so will be interested to learn what you find out.

Maybe the Aerotoxic Association (http://www.aerotoxic.org) has some leads?

A few years ago I started hearing disturbing stories about adverse health effects associated with inhaling AVGAS LL vapor. Recently I've noticed some aircraft refuelers using respirators when pumping AVGAS LL - and after reading the AVGAS LL MDSS (http://www.msds.bp.com.au/pdf/ref_4678_Avgas_100_LL.pdf) it seems a sensible precaution to take.

Pithblot.

[727ace]

well i wouldnt think of drinking it:}. there is no definitive answer like its counterpart Skydrol all are protected under patent laws with the manufacturers/producers eager to protect. Very limited info on the Specs is available as you would find in matl reports

try some on the odd weed in the garden that will answer all your concerns both are very dangerous

Question ;do you know off alot of OLD Engineers:rolleyes: 85+ years old especially Engine ones !!! i dont. not so many years ago they used to bath in engine ,hydraulic and cleaning oils and solvents whilst at work ,not now all protection is used

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Pithblot, thanks for the link. I've been there before but am just a touch sceptical. No offense to the site but I'm looking for something a bit more impartial. The problem I'm having is there are such conflicting reports and finding balance with good science seems difficult.

The WHO study at the UN seems good but if true I am getting a little worried. The House of lords and Senate were conflicting within the studies with the negs and pos both having vested interests. Be nice to get some real balance on exposure limits etc.

[Blackdog320]

Afternoon CSI WOG, your second head was caused from trihaadwestrailiyan, basically an exposure to meridians between 112E and 129E, oh the coffees i made you might have done it as well sugar/mercury?:E Cheers to the girl.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Word dogg, I'll send the hobbit home tomorrow

[kiwiblue]

Does anyone have any access to the ChemAlert system? They're supposed to be impartial, with their published MSDS providing full disclosure of the constituents of these compounds, TEL's, required/recommended handling procedures, PPE et al.

Personally I would be more interested in what is available there than anything found here...

[OPSH24]

just don't drink the stuff - nearly everything that burns or lubricates aircraft is very bad for you at the least or kill you for a long enough exposure.

Don't forget the solar radiation levels are also higher above SL.

I'm sorry but between job security, wages, my mortgage, my marriage and the general ills of the world around me (including the possibility of Tintin becoming Prime Minister) I have too many other things to worry about.

Stay fit and eat well and your body will look after itself

[Blackdog320]

thanks mate, I'm losing wt/ landing on runways/ seeing day before noon since the hobbit and the magic white bear went away. All ok? Is this a renewed interest in TCP's or continued study from past events?

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Thanks for the posts people, I've had a quick squiz on chem alert and it's interesting reading. That's my concern really, we know it's bad and is a neurotoxin, carcinogenic, cumulative etc. But what are the exposure levels that are dangerous? When does it become really dangerous? We all get exposed to evil things in our working lives at one time or another, but whats really bad and whats tolerable. What's lawyer spin cycle and what's management covering ass?

Dogg nothing coming my way but some mates are crook you know them from the day. Say G'day to Big A and Little G. Hobbit misses his pony

[OZBUSDRIVER]

http://www.aerotoxic.org/Aeroshell500MSDS.html

MSDS (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/t5161.htm)

the threshold for OPIDN was between 20 and 60 mg "conventional" TCP/kg/d in JEO for 10 wk. The current "conventional" TCPs used in JEO and new "low-toxicity" TCPs now used in some JEO are synthesized from phenolic mixtures having reduced levels of ortho-cresol and ortho-xylenols resulting in TCPs of very high content of meta- and para-substituted phenyl moieties; this change in composition results in lower toxicity. The "conventional" TCPs still retain enough inhibitory activity to produce OPIDN, largely because of the presence of ortho-xylyl moieties; the "low-toxicity" TCPs are largely devoid of ortho substituents and have extremely low potential to cause OPIDN. The TCPs produced in the 1940s and 1950s were more than 400 times as toxic as the "low-toxicity" TCPs produced today. Analysis of the doses required to produce OPIDN in a subchronic hen study suggests that the minimum toxic dose of "conventional" TCP for producing OPIDN in a 70-kg person would be 280 mg/d, and for JEO containing 3% TCP, 9.4 g/d. Food products could be inadvertently contaminated with neat "conventional" TCP but it is unlikely that food such as cooking oil would be contaminated with enough JEO + 3% TCP to cause toxicity. Further, at the dosage required for neurotoxicity, it would be virtually impossible for a person to receive enough JEO + 3% TCP in the normal workplace (or in an aircraft) to cause such toxicity. There is no record of a JEO formulated with the modern "conventional" TCP causing human neurotoxicity.


PubMed Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10405186)

OPIDN (http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_543.html)

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Thankyou kindly sir! Much appreciated will forward data to relevant parties and stand happily corrected on it's carcinogenic properties.

[airbusthreetwenty]

http://uhildp82.csd.disa.mil/pls/msds/web_msds.display?imsdsnr=125460

[zed583]

They would'nt happen to be SA mates would they WOG.
Word is that finally some of the boys are making it official, but neither they nor their Gp are getting any love from CASA.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I wouldn't know what you're talking about Zed?

The thing I do find interesting though is the can of worms that would be unleashed if CASA did address this issue. The exposure rates are hard to measure and this sort of thing gets lawyers salivating. What will or would it take to find an acceptable level of exposure for employees/pax? How would you measure this on an ongoing basis ?

The stuff is bad no question, the manufacturers have tried in recent years as Oz's post points out to reduce the toxic component and this reduces the risk. There are other ways the risk can be reduced and no doubt people are attempting to get that sorted. There would be a level of psychosomatic symptomality there as well as genuine symptoms given the type of exposure. Sorting through that would be the difficult thing as well fixing the problem.

Not getting lawyers involved would be the best course of action due to the panic/wrongful claims that could arise. That and making sure people who are ill are treated with respect, have their health problems sorted and don't have to endure dangerous exposure levels.

[Richo]

As OSPH24 says, just about everything can kill you if you overindulge.

Life is basicaly a FATAL disease after all.

reciently saw an SAFETY ALERT for all members of a very very big aviation organisation, which amoung other things, now sugests that Females should not come into contact with AVGAS as the MSDS clearly states that the toxins in the fuel can be harmfull to the female reproductive thingies.

Wow what a wonderfull world we live in,

PS The sky is falling!!

richo