Asic - The Great Con Job

[emu787]

AUSTRALIAN ASIC - The Big Con Job
Well, I totally agree with Transport Security, however the ASIC is one of the greatest con jobs bestowed upon the Australian Aviation Industry EVER!

Division 3.2, subsection 3.05 of the Transport Security Regulations 2005 EXEMPT and I mean EXEMPT the crew of FOREIGN AIRLINES from having an Australian issued ASIC!

NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...NO ASIO CLEARANCE...NO AFP CHECK...NO CRIMMINAL HISTORY...HA..HA..HA

They like everybody else in the Aviation World (except Australia)only have to display a COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD.

Well mateys.....these airlines (foreign) carried more than 20 million passengers IN/OUT of Australia LAST YEAR!!!!!! and in BIG PLANES.

Write to your Federal Member of Parliament and get the Regs changed....why do we have to put up with this crap in Australia....if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD....NO MORE WANK ASIC'S....THATS THE WAY IT IS ALL OVER THE WORLD...

Just like the new regs for alcohol/drugs testing....act now or forever be bloody silent!

[ACMS]

EMU787: In Cathay we are issued a company ID card but it's only "in house" company use.
For airside use we are issued an "ICAO" card by the HK CAD (civil aviation dept)
A pretty average looking thing but not issued by CX
To my mind a proper Aussie style, official looking ASIC is a good idea.
if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD.

QF, ( including QLINK ) VB, etc already issue their own don't they?

What about GA private pilots that don't have a "company" to issue theirs?

[emu787]

The company ID will be of a prescribed format ie.same as the current ASIC and it will be worn and produced as prescribed......

the point is if its good enough for the goose then its good enough for the gander and will not cost $190 and will be valid as long as you are employed.....a far safer and cost effective model than five government departments running around trying to administer an idea somebody dreamt up but did not think about it.....

dont forget....foreign pilots and cabin crew are flying 20 million pax in and out of Australia every year......NO ASIC...NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...........so whats the bloody point!

As for ACMS.....99% of the worlds aviation use and accept company issued ID cards!

As for Airport Staff...the same goes.....its up to the company to administer as per the prescribed regulations.

I will stand by my comment....its just another bloody government con job!

[FlexibleResponse]

How about Australia insist on issuing ASIC Cards for all foreign aircrew that operate into Australia?

And then the USA can issue their equivalent card for entry into the States. And the UK can do the same, and so on?

Each aircrew person could accumulate as many cards as necessary for each of the foreign countries into which they operate, and merely change to the appropriate card on arrival?

Everyone would be happy and security would be most certainly assurred.

There is absolutely no way a terrorist could defeat such a wonderful system?

[ACMS]

Now that's what I call a "flexible response" :}

[emu787]

Thank you for your replies....don't forget about the COST mateys....over a ten year period without inflation the industry who did not ask for this impost will fork out more than $50 Million....why....why.....if its so important then I will say again why don't foreign crew need one ?????? carting more than 20 million passengers each year.

$50 million dollars could be spent on SAFETY !!! I bet I could do the same type of card in the same prescribed format for under $10....thats a saving to the DOMESTIC aviation industry of about $48 Million dollars over 10 years......the greatest con ever but I am sure there is more coming!

[ACMS]

EMU787: mate the overseas operators have cards approved by ICAO. Issuing states have an obligation to carry out background security checks before issuing said cards.
Australia is no different in issuing it's ASIC, it's recognized by ICAO and valid around the world when used in the course of your employment.

ok

[Islander Jock]

Does anyone recall if CASA issued instructions to return the card upon expiry or if no longer needed? I can't remember if there were instructions on the application or with the card when it arrived.

It is certainly a legislated requirement though under ATSRs.

[frothy]

Islander
Just reading the card that came with my new ASIC from Aviation ID Aust.
states, "you must return your ASIC to Av ID Aust if:
your ASIC has Expired
you are notified your ASIC has been cancelled
it has been defaced
you no longer need it"

Guess that answers the question I asked on another thread.
s'ppose I'm like all blokes, If all else fails,read the instructions:uhoh:

Frothy

[Islander Jock]

Thanks Frothy,
I couldn't remember getting anything with my card from CASA but I'm sure that being as efficient as they are they would have sent a similar notice. :rolleyes:

I've actually had it put on the back of the cards we are issuing from now on.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

The price of freedom!

:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::mad:

[kookabat]

My ASIC expired in May. So I puts it in an envelope and I sends it back to CASA. Dunno if they even got it...:ooh:

[emu787]

:=
ACMS.....you obviously have been led up the same garden path as all the other pilots in Australia....believing something that is not actually happening.

I am sure the necessary crew checks and measures are conducted in every airline and country throughout the world...........not likely mate.

and of course ICAO is a complete success.....not only with security but also airport standards, operator standards, maintenance standards......on and on we could go.

I fly internationally with just a company issued photo ID card mate and its accepted at all airports accross the world on a daily basis....god knows what spoonfed organisation you come from.....but then again you are one of the "believers"

Right now Iam in Europe...airside...with my COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD!!:ugh:

[blueloo]

Kookabat CASA will only accept that expired ASIC for $130. Thats made up of $120 to open the envelope and $10 to chop the asic up with a shredder.

[ACMS]

EMU787:........god knows what spoonfed organisation you come from.....but then again you are one of the "believers"
yes I work for a really backward "spoonfed operation" called CX. ( if you'd bothered to read my posts you'd know that already )
Mate settle down, if your company ID card is accepted by all airports around the world it must be an approved one. I know for a fact that the one I wear in CX is approved by all the airports we fly into and I must display it whilst in the course of my duty. SIMPLE REALLY.
It's no different to other areas in Aviation. If Thai fly into Australia they are approved to do so by CASA, who have done the required checks on their operation ( engineering, flt crew, ID cards etc ) and that they comply with all the ICAO requirements.

The ID card is just one small part of the picture.

I would imagine that CASA do a thorough check of all airlines flying into Australia. And they conduct random RAMP CHECKS.

[emu787]

:=QUOTE ACMS:"I would imagine that CASA do a thorough check of all airlines flying into Australia. And they conduct random RAMP CHECKS......."

well old mate exactly you said.... "I would imagine that CASA do a thorough check..." you have chosen a very good selection of words.....do you really think CASA closely monitor the crew security background checking of every airline carrying the 20 million plus passengers IN/OUT of Australia. Do you really think that. You might want to believe that but mate its not a reality.

CASA cant even get their act together to process their own ASIC renewals...they just don't have the budget or staff....mate you live in a bloody fantasy land.

ACMS, under the aviation Chicago Convention of 1948 each and every contracting State just looks after its own backyard and they DO NOT go snooping around all the in-bound airlines paperwork etc....that would take a staff of a 1000 and anyhow they would be just shown bullsh..t paperwork and would upset many foreign Airlines management....who do you think CASA are....some GOD LIKE creature with powers to transgress international boundaries.

These are the people mate that were closely monitoring the safety standards and of course the ID cards integrity of GARUDA while they carried hundreds of thousands of OZ passengers in apparent total flight safety !!!! I suggest you put your hand back on the proper stick.

You mention Thai...its all in the Thai language for christ sake !!!

As for my company issued photo ID card....it is not an ICAO card with the little lines in the background but IS accepted wherever I go....all over the world mate....maybe at your CX induction course the security people just wanted to make you feel all warm and cosy.

Lets get back to the original thread....IF WE ARE LICENCED TO OPERATE AEROPLANES AND CHOOSE THE CREW WE WANT AND CARRY PASSENGERS WHEREVER THEN WE SHOULD BE BLOODY WELL APPROVED TO DO OUR OWN ASSESSMENT OF THE SUITABILITY OF OUR OWN STAFF....NOT FIVE LOOSELY CONTROLLED AND UNLINKED GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS ripping us off for $190 every second year.

CASA, I believe have a lawful DUTY to monitor pilots as they progress through the years, they can do this quietly behind the scenes with State and Federal police forces...its their job as the regulator.... but for us to sit down and fill out crap pages of information every two years, get stuffed around like you would not believe and then get ripped off for $190 for a 50 cent card is down right disgraceful and need parliament intervention NOW.

So ACMS I suppose you don't have to worry really as I am sure CX pay for all your cards anyhow....$190 buys school books and shoes mate !!!:ugh:

[Islander Jock]

Geez emu. Getting a bit heated there aren't you mate?
We're all frustrated by the inconsistencies with aviation security but no need to take it out on other posters here because they have a different perspective on the overall picture to yourself.

[Zhaadum]

I have been a licensed pilot since 1987 and a CPL since 1996. If I was going to fly my Cessna/Piper/Boeing/Airbus whatever into a building you would think I would have done it by now? Why am I now suddenly considered a threat after years of government scrutiny? It is not like I have just arrived here?

Stupidity in the extreme is the ASIC system.:mad:

We have no choice but to comply but we all have a duty to resist!

Z.:ugh:

[FO Cokebottle]

Zhaadum, Well done!!! The real perspective of the whole mess.

[haughtney1]

Without stating the obvious...Emu, you are an idiot, get off your high horse/kangaroo/emu or whatever, and take a chill pill buddy.
Every ICAO signatory country is required to provide aircrew with the relevant ID......but I suspect you knew this already.

don't forget....foreign pilots and cabin crew are flying 20 million pax in and out of Australia every year......NO ASIC...NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...........so whats the bloody point!


Sounds more like a typical xenophobic argument parceled up to suit your own pathetic agenda.
You need to get out more mate :yuk:

[emu787]

well well, obviously mate you are another spoonfed person who can't see beyond your nose.......$190 for what mate....we did not ask for it so why should we pay for it (ASIC) matey.

They (the 5 government departments behind this debacle) can do it themselves (the security checking) without us being involved and without us paying for it.

And I will repeat it once again...AIRSIDE EUROPE WITH MY COMPANY ISSUED AVIATION ID CARD....yes thats what I call getting out there mate!

Next time mate read the thread!

[haughtney1]

I particularly enjoyed the reference to foreign crews....:hmm:

[emu787]

:=:=Hello Haughtney1 and ACMS....

well well if you look up the Australian Transport Security Regulations 2005, page 74, subsection 3.05. subparagraph a(ii) you will note that:

....the Foreign Crews who carry the 21 million passengers in/out of AUSTRALIA every year mateys only have to display a COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD !!! its in the Regs.

And for you blind believers....NO MENTION OF ICAO cards mates....both of you have been misled obviously.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander......replace ASICS with company issued ID card at 1/10th of the cost and stuffups.

Those faceless people who think we are all crooks can do whatever behind the scenes because THEY ARE CERTAINLY NOT DOING IT TO ALL THE THOUSANDS OF FOREIGN CREW and I dont expect them to either as they can't even handle the ones they have got.

Lets get a level playing field!......ALL or NONE...the great aviation con.:ugh:

[Islander Jock]

Emu, to quote an oft used recommendation by a couple of other very wise PPRUNERs. "Take a Bex and have a lie down".

Believe it or not, there are far more significant problems in ATSRs and associated compliance. People throwing their teddy out of the cot and screaming "don't want to" or "can't make me" doesn't even register in the grand scheme of things.

I have people working around me probably earning far less than your good self who acknowledge and fully accept the need for the card. Before you continue on your tyrade about being conned by govt or other conspiracty theories they are in fact very normal and rational every day folk.

[emu787]

hello islander jock.....interesting that you find time to tell me to take a bex but you cant put positive pen to paper and have an informative and mature discussion about this subject that will eventually...directly...cost the industry/pilots more than 130 million dollars over a 20 year period.

its obvious you dont pay for your ASIC!

sad to say but the ASIC system of checking ONLY domestic pilots is a con job and a ripoff!:ugh::ugh:

and NO, I don't need a bex, it might cause me to test positive in the company D & A tests.

Thank christ I am in Europe...AIRSIDE....with my COMPANY issued ID card that costs less than $10.

[Islander Jock]

Emu,

A good deal of my day is spent in direct contact with senior DOTARS and airline security staff discussing these and other security matters and the inherent problems they create .

Does an ASIC make aviation any safer? Probably not. But it does provide a system whereby anyone who gets their hands on an Australian registered aircraft as PIC to fly to a security controlled airport has been suitablly checked. It is on that basis then that we can perhaps argue more convincingly to remove the requirements for making pilots go through the ludicrous screening process at airports. You can't have it both ways... no screening and no ASIC. I reckon if you asked the majority, they would tell you they would much rather have the little plastic card on a lanyard around their neck as opposed to continually emptying their pockets, taking their belts and shoes off and going through metal detectors.

As much as it frustrates, ranting and raving on PPRUNE will have as much effect of changing the rules as p1ssing yourself in a wetsuit. You will get a short term warm sensation but no one will probably notice. We can maybe argue about the price but as AUSCHECK have just been through a very thorough process of full disclosure of costs to implement the program, I don't think you are going to see much movement there either. A fairer system surely would be to maybe make it a 5 year life as for the MSIC.

Not that it's really relevant to this topic but yes I do in fact pay for my own ASIC.

[Zhaadum]

Emu,

Just a stupid question. If you are indeed in Europe and work and live there, why do you care two beans about the ASIC process/debacle/ (insert appropriate emotive word here)?

Surely you can't be serious?

You seem particularly upset for an (alleged) observer from afar.:bored:

Z.:hmm:

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I tend to agree with our British Aviations Finest Jockey. Why can't the ASIC's be 5 years and if you did something stupid or dodgy you have to tell them anyway. The other piece of reform I'd like to see would be, no drama with full price for initial issue but renewals should be cheaper and not involve the same convoluted multi agency clearences that have already been done. Nothing like handing in your old one then waiting 8 weeks for the new one to get some perspective, especially when the old one was still valid.

As to other nationals coming into our airports with company issued cards, one must always remember security is not always seen. There are many ways to skin a cat and people might not be completely aware of the things that are done to make us safer. I'd like to think we're smarter than checking cards.

I do remember wandering around the odd middle east aerodrome with a company card and no one blinked an eye. They just pointed the semi's at me and asked what the strange aircraft did.:O

[Angle of Attack]

Regardless of whether ASICS are good or not sleepers would be able to get one anyway and work their way up to a flying position in a commercial jet. As much as the media like to make out most terrorists have no blots on their record at all, for a deliberate reason, because it will arouse suspicion. If CASA was serious about security they would mandate double cockpit doors because you dont need to be an ASIC holder to be a passenger and it is still highly vulnerable with that door opening and closing all the time. Still that wont stop a sleeper being in the cockpit at least its a start though

ASIC is all about red tape which has spiralled out of control the last decade or so, most of the damn politicians studied law thats why we find ourselves in this debacle. just my 0.25% rate rise worth! :E


Note :Edited for spelling

[Biggles_in_Oz]

IJ.
It is on that basis then that we can perhaps argue more convincingly to remove the requirements for making pilots go through the ludicrous screening process at airports. You can't have it both ways... no screening and no ASIC. I reckon if you asked the majority, they would tell you they would much rather have the little plastic card on a lanyard around their neck as opposed to continually emptying their pockets, taking their belts and shoes off and going through metal detectors.
That is only going to benefit a small percentage of Australian pilots who actually operate from major airports.
It will do nothing for the large majority who are saddled with the idiotic ASIC requirements that presume we are dangerous individuals, requiring biannual loyalty checks so we can stop off at places like Coober Pedy or Halls Creek.
Bah..

[Islander Jock]

Biggles,
Agree fully mate. You would't believe the outback buttf*&k places you are required to have an ASIC. The best we could possibly hope for though is either some reduction in the fees or increase in the validity period. Otherwise short of some major shift in the thinking by those with a vested interest in all of us sticking to the status quo, we are going to see ASICs around for a very long time indeed. Nothing would make me happier to be proved wrong on that point.

[MURLOW]

I too am airside overseas with an asic card and heavy vehicle drivers licence issued in NSW. Have a guess which card every one is accepting, you guessed it they have no idea what to do with an asic card,or even what it is.They take all my details from my drivers licence(which actually does have information about me on it!!!!!)
My asic card now resides in my brief case at the hotel, while my drivers licence is now in my asic card holder!!!!!!
Right or wrong the asic card is not working and we already have that much ID required today it is just another case of beaurocracy gone mad, what with Passport, drivers licence, boat licence, pilots licence,Asic, work cover machinery licence, nurseing licence etc etc etc. Just replace it with one card for everything, just imagine one set of checks, one form to fill out etc etc etc, anyway I think you get my drift.
I WOULD MUCH PREFERRE TO FILL OUT ONE FORM EVERY FIVE YEARS AND NOT FIVE FORMS EVERY YEAR.

[pedro robiro]

:DCrickey emu787 you hit the nail on the head,There should be a national revolt,enough is enough,We should all get behind emu and boycott this dumd card,My drivers licence has more authority overseas air side than this ASCIC CARD.$190 is joke,Typical of gov dept.

[MURLOW]

Hello is there anybody out there!!!!
I was hoping that this would get debated some more, as I believe that My experiences have shown how floored this Asic issue really is. Security is needed but not just with aviation or the fuel industry or the fertiliser industry etc etc etc. So lets get something that works for all under 1 umbrella instead of every goverment body doing their own thing at the cost of the Australian people.

[FlexibleResponse]

Sorry Murlow,

But political expediency demands that "special" attention (over and above "everyday" things like drivers' licences) needs to be given and provided for in times of "crisis" to address issues of closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Then of course, special rules are introduced to ensure that such politicians involved are not inconvenienced by those same rules that are applicable to everyone else.

"Four legs good, two legs bad!"

[MURLOW]

Yes I cannot agree more with you FLEX, but while you have gotten over it and are able to smile now, I'm still on the raging bull path (I do envey you). I am just sick and tired of the government using my (OUR) money with no regard to what is working or indeed what is already in place and working but may only need a little add on. What I am saying is have One security check for all, why is aviation so special that it has to be on its own. It is about time our industry came out of the dark ages and grew up and fitted in with the rest of Australian industry ( so CASA get a grip Aviation in Australia is only pimple on the arse of the universe). Remember it is my drivers licence that is WORKING not that stupit grease scraper(ASIC).But I suppose if they listened to me poor OLD CASA would not have much to do!!

[NephewBob]

Emu has a point, ASIC has cost the industry heaps & the fees are a burden on the individual pilot. No doubt these fees in Australia will increase over time.

It did not have to be that way.

Even after the terrible events of 9/11, when the TSA "tookover" US airport security, there was a similar scheme suggested, however the final (sensible) codified regulation is that an FAA airmans certificate is only valid with photo ID. This ID includes Company ID, a driver license or passport etc.

There is still no fee for the FAA to issue licenses, or ratings etc, let alone medical certificates, however if you need a replacement certificate, you need to send (or credit card on their website) US$2.00 (same fee for 20 years) and they will send you via first class mail a new plastic hologramed license featuring Orville & Wilbur Wright in commemoration of 100 years of powered flight.

Being a foreign carrier driver (Non US), my regulator and airline issues lots of paper/plastic etc. but I don't have to pay for it.

[emu787]

well they fought in two world wars to preserve democracy but where is the democracy when they (the blunt minded sharp penciled bureaucrats) dictate that YOU WILL WEAR IT AND YOU WILL PAY FOR IT.....is that democracy or dictatorship?

While we the domestic pilots are subject to dictatorial regulations the foreign crew who carry more than 20 million passengers in/out of Australia every year only have to wear a COMPANY issued $2 ID Card.

How about a National NO ASIC day....no problem for security...we will be denied access and told to go home and the only planes flying will be the INTERNATIONAL planes with crew that don't have ASIC's .....what will the public say to the Minister then!!!!!!!!:=

[moosp]

As a "foreigner" I needed an ASIC to fly GA in OZ. So I applied, and after a couple of months they wrote to me and said words to the effect, "you're foreign, we need two primary methods of ID and three secondary."

OK says I, have a UK passport for one, and as I don't have an Oz driving licence, how about a current ICAO flight crew ID card? It must show that at least some suitable background check has been done on me. (Note, ICAO card, not Company ID.)

Ooooh not in the regulations that one. Do you have an Australian utility bill with your name on it? Ummm, no. But how on earth can a utility bill have a higher security clearance than an ICAO ID? Maybe if I wear my electric bill round my neck I will be let airside?

We eventually agreed on my local DAME writing on a piece of paper with his stamp that I am who I am, and that was accepted as my second primary ID.

Pity my AME's name wasn't Osama al Charlatan or similar, which would have got Canberra going for a while...

My ASIC expires in December. Is it worth renewing or will New Labour trash the idea?

[Islander Jock]

moosp,
Complaints and frustrations about the worth and necessity of an ASIC aside, and yes I do believe they are a bloody waste of time. Your best bet to renew your ASIC would be to go through www.aviationidaustralia.net.au (http://www.aviationidaustralia.net.au) Do NOT repeat NOT apply through CASA. Issuing ASICs is not part of their core business and this is reflected in the fact that they are probably the most inefficient Issuing Authorty of all.

[gramps]

I recently went to send back my ASIC after changing jobs. After sending an email to them asking what address I send it to they forwarded the correct address and answered one of my other questions that I was unsure of. Yes thay stated, "We will send you $50 back upon return of ASIC".
Sent card - surprise, surprise - no money.

If they were serious about all this security bullsh*t they would surely try to ensure all loose ASIC cards were collected and supply the incentive for people to comply.

my two cents

[Capt Wally]

...............reading all the posts here for & against the ASIC system shows one single thing.............terrorism is alive & well..................don't let the basta..s win, stick with what ever the rule makers see fit (despite it's short comings) & defeat the enemy on the ground, well before they again have fear running rife !
We in the civilised world are at war whether we like it or not & aviation is such a powerful 'tool' for the enemy to abuse. Lets use aviation for what it was originally envisaged advanced for, quick safe efficient transport. Fly safe all & fear nothing for we are strong in our resolve to make flying safe & enjoyable.

Capt Wally :-)

[Jabawocky]

Yep, and if you are a lawyer and fly close to an APEC meeting, flash your ASIC out the window at the passing RAFFie.......see all is good!:suspect:

J

[emu787]

Thanks for that Capt Wally....I thought I was listening to a George W Bush State of the Union address.....mate its a con job and you have been conned.

21 million people were carted in and out of Australia last year by foreign crew THAT DO NOT HAVE AN ASIC!!!! THEY ONLY HAVE A COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD that is valid everywhere else in the world and that includes Australia......DOTARS TSA regulation 3.5 company issued card is OK for foreign crew!

The ONLY people who require an ASIC and have to go through this stupid check every two years at our expense are Australian Domestic pilots......why Wally....please tell me why.

Well...why?.....I will tell you why....its a bureaucratic con job at its best.

[MURLOW]

Well Wally, I agree that safety is at the top of the tree BUT in a civilised world there is a system called streamlining. That is to say AGAIN why does every government body seem to think that its security system is better than the others. I have no problem with a security system but it should be ONE that covers everything.i.e flash one card to the security people wether that is entering a school yard, hospital, asio head office or airport.I SAY AGAIN ONE POLICE CHECK, ONE CHEQUE AND ONE CARD FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!. And yes if it is used for aviation it should be ICAO approved as well.

[sumhorizon]

Good on you Murlow. ENOUGH IS A BLOODY ENOUGH. And it is about time every one see it for what it is, the greatest con job in Australian aviation at the present time. But as for ICAO what a waste of resources. Europe, America, Japan and so on cannot agree that aircraft fly the same no matter where in the world. AVIATION WHAT A MESS!

[emu787]

thanks "sumhorizon" you have seen the light...pity you are few and far between....the OZ aviation industry are nothing but a simple flock of sheep...

Write a letter to your Federal member and copy it to Rudds office pointing out that foreign crew cart more than 20 million passengers last year into and out of Australia and they are only required to be in uniform and display a COMPANY issued ID card when in a SECURE STERILE AREA!!!

Not us...we have to have an ASIC and pay for it.

This will do two things hopefully.....ALL will have to have ASIC checks etc which will cause utter chaos overseas (won't happen) or they will scrap it for the international standard of a company issued card for domestic pilots.

We have been conned and I bet more deception is on the way!

[Counter-rotation]

I was recently talking about this to a mate of mine (who I know gets a bit worked up at times), and he made a good point. It went a bit like this...

Does anyone recall the mass murders at Port Arthur?
That was also a tragic, horrible event - much like Sept 11.
That also provoked a Government knee jerk reaction.
That reaction (the gun buy-back) was sold to the public ''in the interest of public safety"
That was also a very expensive initiative.

Here's the difference - the gun buy-back was funded from the public purse.
Not gun clubs, not firearms dealers, not licence holders for firearms,
THE GENERAL PUBLIC - IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

So why has the aviation industry alone and in isolation been forced to bear the cost of this rubbish?
Even if it was effective, even if it was efficient - the cost is still a bunch of bullsh#t, and should be on the public in general.


Well I can't really see a problem with that logic. The similarity is actually pretty bloody good.

And reading this thread, EMU and MURLOW (and others) - well I've got to agree with you guys. It is a deadset con, an absolute joke, and anyone involved with creating/proposing/approving it (I hope you're reading this) you should be UTTERLY EMBARRASED.

I repeat - UTTERLY EMBARRASED.

Do us all a favour - take the rest of your life off, you bunch of - can't even think of a strong enough word... You should all be lined up and SHOT THROUGH THE HEAD. :yuk::yuk:

CR.

[Islander Jock]

Counter Rotation,
:D:D

Whilst I am directly involved with the processing and issuing of ASICs, it is a job I could well do without. It is time consuming and seems to achieve very little in the grand scheme of things. All this has done is penalise law abiding pilots and funded a very hungry monster in Canberra called DOTARS.

I know of one particular instance where a guy came to Australia on holiday, hired an aircraft and flew off into the never never without so much as one person checking his ASIC. By the time he got to my airport, the horse had well and truly bolted so all I could do was call DOTARS and advise what had happened and what I intended to do about it. That was, to restrict his access to non RPT operational periods and get him the f*&k out of there as soon as possible. Don't know how he got on at the myriad of other so called security controlled airports he visited. But wasn't my problem then. I could have been a real pr1ck and denied him access airside totally and called the operator to come and recover their aircraft. :E

Highlights a serious point though in that many of us have endured a lot of hardship and in some cases lost tens even hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost turnover due to the inability of the governmet to process ASICs in a timely manner for overseas pilots. Then one clown comes along, pleads ignorance and no one batts an eyelid.

Even CASA f*&ked it up when a guy was waiting for his ASIC they told him to contact the airport concerned and ask to be issued a Visitors Identification Card (VIC). "Wrong answer a$$hole" A VIC is only for airside use by persons having to work there and MUST BE SUPERVISED at all times by an ASIC holder. If anyone can tell me how said VIC could be supervised, once he gets back in his aircraft, closes the doors and starts up, I'm all ears.:ugh::ugh:
So we now have the regulator giving advice contrary to the legislation of DOTARS.:=:=

Unfortunately, you will not change DOTARS and therefore the current government's minds and make them see that the current system is expensive and unnecessary. There are a lot of senior puplic servants and a few Sir Humphreys who's livelihoods depend on our continuing to fork out money hand over fist. At the risk of sounding defeatist, as long as they have the general public duped into believing that the right thing is being done and the sky is safer because of ASICS, we probaby have little chance of seeing any change soon. Forget the current minister, he's probably already looking at cleaning out his desk. We need to focus on the other mob.

[crisper]

We have quite a few foreign pilots enter australia in private aircraft at our particular airport. And we have encounted problems of no aussie asics and no company id's. At a recent security meeting with DOTARS I raised the matter and their response was " We are still working on ways of dealing with that " We all knew what she really meant was " We hadn't thought of that one !"

[Islander Jock]

We hadn't thought of that one !

Crisper, I think I know the person of whom you speak. I have already hit her office with a number of other scenarios and received the same response. Or when it is a really sticky question - you get the silent treatment.
All nice well meaning people but clearly no aviation background and a lot of them don't even understant their own legislation :ugh::ugh:
But it's a good number for ADF and police types who are beyond use by date.

[Jabawocky]

Probably the most viable GA business in the country was forced to close up.....not coz it was broke...........

http://www.goana.com.au/main.htm

SHAME SHAME SHAME
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Oddly enough, a Rudd government would have done the same thing......its the system not Liberal V Labour.

J

[Islander Jock]

Jabawocky,
Yep exactly! That site is probably the greatest tragedy of the whole ASIC debacle. Most of us can live, albeit begrudgingly, with the ASIC costs but when they introduced the system without any consultation or industry impact analysis the poor guy running this very successful aviation and tourism business had no choice but to shut up shop and sell his aircraft. We contacted him to see if he was interested in some sort of resurrection of the business but understadably he is a very bitter man and seems to want no more part in aviation.

Maybe it is not a Lib vs Lab thing but the current minister has clearly been duped by a bunch of self serving public servants.

[Counter-rotation]

So here is a question for you. And what I say below is what I saw coming, and a big reason for my earlier post in this thread (amongst others).

Suppose...

You applied for an ASIC, as your current one was running out. You started the application process about 2 months before the expiry of your current ASIC.

For various (read: typical of this sh**!) reasons, outside of your control, you will not receive your new ASIC before your old one expires (can you see where I'm going with this?!)

The company you work for says along the lines of: "you'll have to just wear a visitor's pass (no escort) and hope for the best until your new one arrives :eek: )

Surely it's fair enough to say "to hell with that!!"

Is it? After all, if I get caught breaching "the act" it goes against my record for good.

What do you guys and gals think about this?
CR :confused:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Just say you are casual catering staff!

Apparently they don't need an ASIC!

Dr :8

[Islander Jock]

Counter Rotation, mate I sypmathise with your problem - don't tell me you applied through CASA for your card?:ugh:

I don't necessarily like this system and can see numerous flaws in it's application. We are however stuck with it and therefore need to understand fully how to operate within the ATSRs

A Visitor Identification Card (VIC) is location specific so really no use to a pilot travelling to varirous security controlled airports. Furthermore, if you are flying a single pilot operation a VIC even at a visiting airport does not meet the criteria as you are required at all times to be supervised by an ASIC holder whilst airside. Your supervision would effectively cease once you enter the aircraft and close the door leaving the ASIC holder outside. I even had to point this fact out to both DOTARS and CASA on a couple of occasions. :ugh::ugh: If however you are in a muliti crew operation, the VIC could work but you would still need a card for each loction you go to.

Is the company you work for an Authorised Issuing Authority (AIA)? If so, they should keep one or two Temporary ASICs in stock that can be issued once the security clearance comes back. Although it costs a bit more, the service from AUSCHECK is far superior to what it was combined with AFP and DOTARS and they are turning around applications generally in about 5 working days. If the security clearance has come back, you can be issued a Temp ASIC whilst waiting for your card to be printed.

PM me if you would like any specific advice.