Virgin Recruitment

[The Big Easy]

Seems Virgin have been caught short of pilots and will be recruiting very soon. Any Virgins care to comment.

TBE

[pjumbo]

News to me! Hope it's true. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[high & fast]

Which Virgin? My mate is at Virgin Atlantic and he's getting the boot in three months time.

[sicknote]

Virgin Atlantic are definitely NOT short of pilots at the moment as they are currently making people redundant.If things DO pick up at any time soon(Please God!),then they will be taking back their own ex-employees first.. .So basically there is no chance of any recruitment for ages.

[MAX]

Why is their pilot application form still up on the Virgin Atlantic website? Doesnt make sense?

MAX <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[crewrest]

Virgin Atlantic are not recruiting, they've just dropped 80 pilots.

[747flyboy]

VS are under way to have Air Atlanta operate a B742 under CC's aoc at MAN this summer operating flights to MCO but with VS flight deck. The flights will not be under Virgins name but Virgin holidays. . .Things dont get any better as I recently met an A340 F/O in New York and he's being laid off very shortly.

[Dan Winterland]

Over 70 Virgin pilots have opted for unpaid leave - up to 2 years worth in some cases. These will be bought back on line following any upturn, followed by those made redundant who want to come back. No recruitment for a very long time despite the web site still having job application forms.

[jongar]

doesnt make any sense VS offloading a 340 pilot - they kept all of those planes.

[Dan Winterland]

It's called LIFO. Common sense has little to do with it - it's all to do with fairness. The Classic is being scrapped in it's entirety, but only 14 Classic pilots were made redundant. All the other 140+ pilots leaving are from the 744 and 340 - the types that are being kept. This means a lot of costly and lengthy retraining.

[moan_on]

Just like to point one thing out, Dan......

If the company requires more pilots (from those who have gone already), a compulsory redundant pilot will get the job before a pilot on unpaid, if that pilot is senior. I do believe this legal technicality is causing most angst with the managers at the moment. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[BBK]

moan on

Are you suggesting that if the 'line' moves down then rehiring should be out of seniority? There simply isn't an easy solution that will be fair to everyone but respecting seniority should be the aim of the company and BALPA. By introducing the concept of Unpaid Leave for those below the line the company has only complicated an already difficult situation.

BBK

[Dan Winterland]

Moan On, my understanding of UL is that those who have opted to take leave and not be paid, will have priority over those who have left the company and taken the redundancy money. If a redundant person wants to rejoin the company, it will be after those who have stayed.

This is how UL was sold, the choice was down to the individual. This I gather is also in keeping with management's thoughts, and should be the subject of some interesting legal 'discussion' if challenged.

[xavieronasis]

The problem at the minute is WHEN to apply the policy. Will those on UL only see the advantage when the last person has been made redundant or will people be made redundant out of seniority when the line moves below them and they are on CR.

[Dan Winterland]

?

[pjumbo]

Dan, I concur with your explanation (1109 posting) of how the UL/CR criteria should work. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[xavieronasis]

Bloke A is just below the line and on CR as from june. If, today, the line were to move below him, would he keep his job or would it go to the next available person on UL. This is the dilema. It appears that the company seem to consider bloke A redundant already even though he is still on the pay roll and that the decision to take CR was his. It wasnt, CR is compulsory, no one has asked for it, voted for it or ticked the appropriate box!

[Dan Winterland]

I don't think that is the situation. If A is now above the line, he isn't redundant under law, as it is his job that would have been redundant and not him. I can't see the company argueing that one sucessfully.

Edited for spillong.

[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Dan Winterland ]</p>

[BBK]

Has anyone actually found out where the line now is??

BBK

[The Big Easy]

I got this second hand, but did Virgin and BALPA not sign an agreement stating that if your line moved or vacancies occur then unpaid leave guys would be recalled before the rest? Is that agreement still in place ?

TBE.

[joebanana]

Dan, you're information is wrong.

If the guy immediately below the line is being made compulsory redundant next month suddenly finds that the line moves below him, he will STILL BE MADE REDUNDANT. That is how the management are interpreting the agreement. It is morally wrong and very probably legally wrong.

The company have already decided that he has been made redundant. As the policy currently stands you will be called back first as you are on UL, despite the fact that you joined 2 1/2 years later.

Not LIFO as I understand it.

[BBK]

Joe B

Isn't it a fundamental principle of redundancy that it is the position and not the individual who is surplus to requirements? If the line moves below someone who is still employed then surely their redundancy position becomes void because their place (on the seniority list) is no longer under threat.

However, in what order do you recall those F/Os who have already taken CR and left and whose former position on the seniority list is now safe. For example, if I were a Classic F/O already on the dole and my former 'number' was now ABOVE the line shouldn't I be recalled first. . .There are still plenty of issues for the CC and company to resolve.

BBK

[scroggs]

This discussion should be on The Voice, or on the Virgin forum here at Pprune, not here.. .For any casual visitors hoping to find news of Virgin recruiting (remember the title of this thread?) - there isn't any and won't be for a long time.

[xsimba]

BBK, I agree with everything you say. The situation is far from clear with too many gray areas. Balpa have had 6 months to get a grip on this and achieved booger all!

Scroggs, this discussion may serve to remind potential VS recruits that Virgin isn't all it's cracked up to be. You may even benefit from that.

[jongar]

Virgin have just announced additional services to EWR, Shanghai, Barbados and Lagos - start of an upturn I hope

Jon

BTW whats the voice

[LAVDUMPER]

Best of luck to all involved - we are experiencing similar pain here in the US with a lot of furloughs...

. .Scroggs, just curious, are you still flying the 747-200 or have you transferred to another fleet?

. .Cheers

[scroggs]

Hi Lav. Yes, still on the Classic until it folds - nominally 28th March, last time I checked. Thereafter (and this plan could well change!), I shall be converting to the 744.. .The increase in services is very welcome; let's hope it starts the process of re-employing our lost colleagues. I understand that there will be a document published soon explaining exactly how this process will take place.

[The Big Easy]

My original post was due to a rumour that Virgin were short of drivers due to cutting to deep post September. I believe they now have announced a 5% increase in schedules, agreed an extra MCO flight and will increase another Asian Flight. All with the same crewing levels as of 11/09. Have they recalled furloughed guys yet?

If not, Someone must be working hard. Any comments.

TBE

[Max Burner]

Big Easy,

The answer to your question is yes, the crews are working exceptionally hard, in fact some cannot work any more, contactually or CAA rules.