More a/c for QF?

[viv]

CNBC have just reported QF will place a new order within 2 months. My moneys on the 777.

[Going Boeing]

My money is on the B787-10 because it is newer technology with lower fuel burn/emissions and commonality with the -8 and -9 models. Increased flexibility for crewing is another factor. Boeing know that if they don't proceed with the -10, then that will give Airbus an opportunity to snare market share in the 350 seat category with the A350XWB.

The B777 is 1990's technology and the only way that Boeing will be able to keep it in production is to heavily modify it with B787 era technology.

The other possibility is that this order could be the much talked about giant order for common (QF & JQ) single aisle jets.

[TineeTim]

Haven't seen this reported. Have you got a link?

I agree with GB, the 777 ship has sailed for QF. The 787/380 are the future and I doubt we'll see an order for anything else. The only possibility could be some 330s.

Joint narrow body order is unlikely IMHO as the current A/C are new and any replacement is years away. Interesting rumour, though.

[Keg]

If it's a 'new order' with manufacturers then it's either additional 787 or the A350 (with the possibility of additional A380s); or, it's as GB says and the much vaunted 737/A320 replacement machine to arrive post 2012 or a combination of both.

If QF decides to get 777s they'll come from ILFC and they'll turn up in a hurry (before the end of next year) because QF is short of capacity. They're not going to order the 777 for delivery in two to three years time because the 787-10 will be so close then that it'd be silly.

Time will tell.

[hotnhigh]

No, just give them to jetstar, Lets see if we can push the 787s to 2015 for the flying rat.
So lets see, first 78 now delivered to QF mainline in 2011. (Didn't mention that at last weeks briefing!) Should be easy!
"Welcome aboard your qantas aircraft, part of the vintage aviation collection in the qantas group, for your flight to Melbourne/London/HongKong or whatever other joints are left on this network.
Please enjoy the 20 year plus airframe we are hopefully going to launch today.
Just have to get throught the paperwork, i mean mels, prior to our departure. All going well, this should be in around 4 hours.
You may have wondered where the beds are on this flight, don't worry you wont need them as the harmonic tones that you hear from the airframe in cruise will make you sleep like a babby in the classy 1970s derivative business product......."

Neglected and abused are words that come to mind when you balance that with the profits delivered today.....:mad:

[TineeTim]

So lets see, first 78 now delivered to QF mainline in 2011.

What are you talking about? That's been done to death, here and on Qroom, it's incorrect. Full stop.

[pilotdude09]

What about 748's?

At the moment there really is no replacement for the 747's theres the 787 but it doesnt have the capacity the the 744 has and the A380 is only suited for so many routes.

It could make sense if the did order the 748, with fleet commonality, crew already trained etc.

[hotnhigh]

Well Tim, can you get the amended aircraft delivery schedule (last updated 13th august) on the qfintranet site to adjust my misrepresentation.
It now shows the first 25 to jetstar and the first to QF in Oct 2011.
Once this is done, I will be happy to correct my error.
Thanks matey!

[OhForSure]

HotnHigh: Geez, let 'em down easy eh mate? The sun will rise tomorrow. Life will go on. Rather humerous though.

Yeah, have to agree with GB, Keg and Tim. I recall Boeing mentioned that the -10 was likely to be launched later this year, and that QF & EK were the two carriers primarily pushing for it. When you think about it, it makes alot of sense (where did QF management find that?!?!?). You can have a widebody fleet of 787s which can operate very efficiently on domestic routes, trans-tasman and regionally as well as new long thin routes such as Vancouver/Dallas/Rome/Santiago/Cape Town etc. Crewing would love it. If the order involves narrowbodies, surely it will be 73Hs, as opposed to new stuff. Too far off I reckon.

GB: How many seats would the -10 be fitted with in a four class config? Appears to be roughly... what A340-500 in size (bit smaller than 772)?

Bring 'em on! :ok:

[TineeTim]

HNH,

I suspect you know the plan as well as I do- 15 787-8 to Jet* then transfer those to QF as they get 787-9. First NEW 787 to QF in 2011. I know the theory it won't happen, q wet lease from Jet * etc etc. I don't buy it. Basically two ways to make $$ in the airline game these days.

1. Lots of bums on seats, thin margins, low costs. J*

2. Fewer bums on seats, high yield j and f class. Rat

Look at the results this year. Long haul profit up but pax numbers down. Why? Higher yield. I don't like GD anymore than you do, but he loves to make $. That means 787s with j class and a rat on the tail sooner rather than later. Bet on it.

[Going Boeing]

GB: How many seats would the -10 be fitted with in a four class config?

It will be considerably less than the 350 seats that Boeing claim - a bit like the Airbus claim that the A380 holds 555 whereas the premium carriers' configuration with sleeper P & J class seats is a lot less (450 in QF's case). I suspect that this configuration is the A380 Pacific configuration (larger business class at the expense of economy seats) as the first four aircraft are planned for the LAX route. When additional aircraft start arriving they may be in a Kangaroo configuration which would probably be around the 500 seat capacity.

I believe that the A380 will replace the B744's on the LAX & LHR routes with the B787-10 replacing the B744 on most of the other routes. It is planned to keep the nine youngest B744's (OJS/T/U & the 6 ER's) in service for a while yet to do the Santiago and Johannesburg routes.

Boeings wind tunnel testing of B787-10 models have shown very impressive figures which have the airlines bleating for Boeing to proceed with this version. Boeing originally wanted the -10 to have the same max weight as the -9 so that the wing and landing gear changes would be kept to a minimum. This resulted in the range reducing to 7500NM (which would be enough for most routes) but airline executives always want more range/payload and Dixon has been calling for a higher weight capability to take a max payload up to 8500NM.

I don't see any room in QF's plans for the B747-8 - it's a great aeroplane but it's timing is not right. If it had been on the drawing boards when the B744 ER's and A380's were ordered then things might be a lot different.

[OhForSure]

My thinking precisely. Thanks. :D

[Buster Hyman]

Probably a couple of BBJ's for the Board.:hmm:

[Going Boeing]

Buster, GD doesn't like mainline pilots so the BBJ's would have to be flown by the Freighter or Jit Connect pilots. :) :rolleyes:

[Qantas 787]

Don't get too excited - it won't be 777, 748, or 787-10

It will be exercising options for 787, some new 738's and A320's for JQ. Nothing too exciting.

[chemical alli]

blah blah blah blah,yawn yawn yawn yawn,wait until the spin doctors come out with it,lets fly jetstar

[Buster Hyman]

Actually...I could get into trouble for this, but my sources tell me it wont be passenger aircraft....but it will have a 7 & a 4 in it!:ooh:

[B A Lert]

If QF decides to get 777s they'll come from ILFC and they'll turn up in a hurry (before the end of next year) because QF is short of capacity.

Who cares what they are but if Qantas is short of capacity, why deliver new A330s to Jetstar, or hand them existing Qantas fleet. Surely it makes more business sense to cement an existing market and appropriateky serve it than start new ones?

Qantas Fleet Planning has been up to ****e for some years. Why they failed to snag a gaggle of B777s is anyone's guess but the question needs to be asked at the next AGM.

[SkyScanner]

Anyone for 737-900 :confused:

[Going Boeing]

SS

Anyone for 737-900


QF is not interested in the -900 as the turn around time would be too long. That many pax with a single aisle takes too long to disembark, clean, cater and embark. The result can mean one less sector out of the airframe per day. QF's experience with the -800 has indicated that it is the ideal size consistant with economics and operational issues.

[TineeTim]

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200708160047DOWJONESDJONLINE000011_FORTUNE5.htm

Link quotes GD saying new A/C order in next two months. Interesting.

[longreach]

I think Qantas 787 is on the money here. QF have said they will firm up on the 20 787 options in the next couple of months as well as convert 20 purchase rights to options making it 65 firm/20 options/30 purchase rights.
The deadline issued by QF to Boeing re 787-10 is early 2008. Dixon has been quoted as saying this. Additionally, it has also been reported that Airbus wants QF to make a decision on the A350-1000 by early next year. There won't be any 787-10/A350-1000 order in the next couple of months or this year. I wouldn't be totally surprised if QF converted some of the 20 787 options to firm orders, however.
Dixon was clear in his rejection of the 748I/777 at 787 rollout. It won't happen.
More 32Xs for JQ is a given and much has been reported lately that this could be a large order(30-50 units?).
QF still have to replace their 734 fleet, so a follow-on 738 and/or 739ER order is also likely IMO.
No more A380s is what I have heard. More 330s wouldn't surprise.
No idea on the freighter front.

[Qantas 787]

Thanks longreach. The insider word is the 777 and 748 have been ruled out and a decision on the 787-10 won't be made for at least a year. If they were ordering the 777 or 748 it would have been made at 1- years ago. There are no further A380's.

They are replacing the 734's with 738's. 739 is a consideration but adding a new variant is not desirable. JQ will be getting more A320's to take on Tiger and further expand.

[B A Lert]

JQ will be getting more A320's to take on Tiger and further expand.

Is Jetstar 'expansion' real or simply taking over existing Qantas routes? Why do they need more equipment to 'take on Tiger'?

[resboy]

Does it really matter?

Tiger will cherry pick where it wants to send its A320s and the only effective way of competing for QF will be to place Jetstar head-to-head with Tiger. Fight fire with fire. We could however shut JQ down, and have QF mainline fight it out with Tiger ... am sure that would end well :E

Or we could go one better. Go back to the great AN/QF days, double the fares, put all the old restrictions back in and halve the number of people flying.

LCCs have been a huge success in Europe and the States and it was only a matter of time before the Australian market was tested. Some people are just still having difficulty getting used to it! Do people seriously think that someone else wouldn't have caught on to creating a Jetstar if QF hadn't?

Also does somebody want to do a count of how many threads have decended into another JQ bashing forum with the usual suspects?

Back to the topic ...

[Buster Hyman]

Bad news chaps & chapettes....just got some good oil & NONE of those aircraft will be in QF or JQ colours!!!!

I believe that it is highly likely that they are destined for....


...the NEW Qantas group airline!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

[badboiblu]

Yer Jets for the regonals.

[Aquaplaner]

Yer Jets for the regonals.
Bombardier C-Series anyone?

[alangirvan]

No more A380s is what I have heard.


Is that no more A380s - not ever? The order is up to 20 planes now, and some planes will be with Pacific route seating 450 passengers, and I expect flights to London will have a lot more seats than that.

London now has 28 flights per week, twice daily from MEL and twice daily from SYD. If every plane flies twice weekly between Oz and London, I think that would be 14 planes.

US West Coast will have daily from MEL, daily from BNE and SYD varies between twice daily and three times daily, plus services through AKL and services to SFO. Eventually, when the last 747-400ER is retired ( not for some years, I realise), is the intention to have a big gap between the A380s with Pacific seating, and the 787-10 with about 300 seats. 20 A380s seems barely enough planes to cover the flying that is done now, if the 747s are retired. Ports like SFO and FRA may not be candidates for A380s for some time, but 787-10s seem like small planes to fly to those cities.

[blow.n.gasket]

I heard the Qantas training manager DC was in the States recently purchasing a 777 sim.
Also heard United just recently decided not to continue with a 777 order due soon.
Could the two be coincidental?
With the number of 747-400's coming up for D checks and seeing as how Cox has stuffed that forward planning up ,Treblers might be the interim solution for this and capacity concerns until the 787-10's arrive. :bored:

[Sue Ridgepipe]

NEW Qantas group airline!!!!!
plus
I heard the Qantas training manager DC was in the States recently purchasing a 777 sim.

plus
Rishworth Aviation is delighted to announce a unique opportunity for pilots to obtain a B777 type rating and build time on type thereafter.
Rishworth Aviation will arrange a B777 type rating course for selected candidates at pilots' own cost. Commuting contracts as B777 First Officers will be offered prior to commencement of the type rating course. Monthly payments will be circa US$6,000 (gross).
Candidates need to have at least 2,000 hours total time and 500 hours on multi-engine turbo-prop or jet aircraft with at least 1 year airline experience. Preference will be given to pilots with jet experience.
While you may not be at the stage in your career where you are interested in this opportunity yourself, if you know of pilots looking to move up to the B777 as First Officers, we would be grateful if you would please make them aware of this opportunity.
Interested candidates should register online/update their online registration details at www.rishworthaviation.com , and forward CV, completed application form, license, passport, medical and last 2 logbook pages to Ms Toni Morelli at [email protected]
Applications close on 26th August 2007. Shortlists will be made thereafter at which time full contract details will be provided. Type rating courses are expected to commence in Oct/Nov/Dec and take 4-6 weeks. Upon successful completion of the type rating courses, assignments will commence.
We think that this is an excellent opportunity for pilots to progress their careers to the next level and expect that there will be significant interest. Accordingly we have in the first instance, exclusively offered this opportunity to pilots registered on our database. We expect that we will be in a position to continue to offer similar opportunities in the future and look forward to hearing from interested pilots.

equals.....????? Probably all totally unrelated but who knows?

[galdian]

Now wasn't there another airline in Australia who have announced they are getting 777's??
Allegedly their newly minted EBA had slots for existing Captains on another type - and slots for F/O's??
ANZ have, and are getting, more 777's - maybe they need a few guys on AWA's (or whatever they have in NZ or wherever the AWA's would be legally lodged, allegedly Vanuatu is delightful this time of year!) to fill in gaps??
Maybe Ozjet are doing so well they are being forced to get bigger jets that have production dates later than 1880. :suspect:

Whilst some might think airline aviation rotates around Qantas it does not actually :( However it DOES revolve around the size of GD's remuneration (unfortunate for GD maybe but - hey - he still gets to take the remuneration home to play with!) :ok: