Phoenix East Aviation

[flying dutchmen]

can anyone tell me their opinion about pea. I am interested to do my training there from 0 to instructor on a j1 visa

thanks

[ChicagoHeights]

in addition these guys also do distance learning ATPL, has anybody tried this there yet? I heard the guy that started this place up moved over to RAA in Florida and I don't trust those jokers at all, just don't want to deal with another tom and bob (TAB Express) operation.

[zedflyer]

Been to pea, obtained ATP FAA.
busy school, loads of ppl running around.
if you go there, get ALL the paper done 1st time.

[Mrglass]

I recently completed my 141 PPL (SE) at Phoenix East Aviation and am very pleased with the school so far.

PEA has a very good structure to all of their courses. It uses the ETA computer tracking system which allows you to know exactly where you are in your progress. The standardized approach allows you to predict what is coming next, study for it and progress.

Ground school (classroom lessons) are held every month for PPL, IRC, CPL, CFI licenses and last 20 days - Mon-Fri 2.5 hrs each day.

The part 141 PPL took me 113 days to complete from start to finish (Xmas slowed things down a bit).

I finished with 60 hours and was one of the first in my class to do so. I had an excellent instructor and studied hard and enjoyed the process very much.

The course cost (me) $14,088 from the day I arrived to the day I got my license. This figure includes books (for the whole set of PPL IRC/CPL/ME/CFI/CFII/MEI courses) ground school, orals, flight time, visa applications, TSA security checks, fingerprinting - basically EVERYTHING.

As with any flight school you need to appreciate that you are not going to hit the minimum hours needed to get each license. 35 hours PPL on a 141 course is not going to happen - this number is just the "minimum". Once you accept that you will be above this number and budget the steep learning curve into your financial/time calculations you will be fine.

Likewise the internet price of 141 PPL $8543 - is probably not going to happen. I was amongst the first in my class to finish the PPL - it cost me $14,088. Some people in my "class" (time I started/enrolled at PEA) are still on their PPL - everyone is different - you will be too. Be smart, be realistic, plan ahead and you should be ok.

I am keeping extremely detailed notes on how much everything has cost as I'm working to a budget just like everyone else. If you want any details I can post them here.

I am now on the 141 IRC course:
4 weeks ground school,
32 one-to-one oral sessions (1hr each),
Approx 17 simulator hours,
Approx 35 Cessna 172sp hours.
(I estimate this will come to about $11045.00)

I will inform you when/if I pass.

The school has plenty of planes, plenty of instructors and a wide range of students from all sorts of countries (majority Norwegian/Indian). It is a great place to learn to fly and have fun at the same time. I have never had a flight canceled due to lack of planes or an instructor not showing up. I do not know of anybody who has had this happen to them.

The only thing that will slow you down at this school is the weather. 360 days of flyable weather simply doesn't exist here. When storms/rain/clouds/mist move(s) in and you're working on your PPL and need clear skies you just have to learn to be patient. The longest period of bad weather which grounded me and other friends was about 2-3 weeks long. God knows what "Hurricane Season" will be like. Again, budget this into your time estimates.

Staff are all very friendly and will help you out, I feel I can go to any number of people who work there with any questions/problems I might have - not just my admissions officer. The way the courses are laid out (with various stage checks throughout each course) you get to know a lot of the more senior check-instructors. Before you know it, you will be saying "hello" and trading chit-chat with dozens of other students and instructors.

There is a steady rate of both instructors leaving the school due to being hired by regionals / going home to jobs (Europe, India) and current students graduating to instructors - keeping the flow steady and everybody moving up one step at a time.

The environment is a very industrious one - everyone works hard and you'll find respect is returned to you if you are serious and work hard for what you want. Everybody is here for the same reason - it is very easy to get along with other students.

Coming from Europe to PEA was a big decision and a big risk financially. If you are realistic with your money and apply yourself you will be fine.

If anybody would like more information about prices and my (realistic) estimates for 141 courses: PPL / IRC / ME PPL rating / CPL ME / CFI / CFII / MEI (all of which I will be doing eventually) - message me on here and I'll fill you in.

Oh, and Daytona Beach itself is an ok place to live....for a while....not much going on here...but you're here to work, so get over it. It goes from being boring as hell to absolutely crazy whenever and "event" is on - Biketoberfest, Daytona 500, Bike Week, etc etc

A very agreeable standard of living can be had for $1000-1200 per month - including all bills, fuel, rent, fun-money (beer), mobile phone contract, etc.

In my opinion, PEA is a great school. I recommend it to anybody considering a 141 school in FL.

Message me for any info, I'll see if i can help.

[Mrglass]

Hi Asrian,

I can only speak for PEA and from my personal experience.

The minimum hours required to complete the 141 PPL as stated in Appendix B to Part 141 - page 442 in the 2008 FAR/AIM***:

35 hours aeronautical knowledge training (i.e. groundschool in the class room)

35 hours flight training which must include: 20hrs dual (with instructor) / 3 hrs cross country / 3 hrs night flying / one cross country of more than 100nm / 10 takeoffs and landings to full stop / 3hrs instrument training.

All of the above is taken care of in the structured PEA 141 PPL. BUT - the odds of you being ready for your end of course check ride right on 35 hours are very, very slim. This is to be expected - especially if this is the first time you've flown.

PEA's website has a price of $8543:
http://www.pea.com/courses/far141Specs.asp#pc

You are going to be going from zero knowledge to a certified pilot, which means there is lots to learn both academically and physically (in the plane).

As mentioned in my last post, I completed the PPL at PEA in:
60hrs flight time,
113 days start to finish,
$14,088.00 (so...$5545 over the website price)

I just want to be clear - I'm all for PEA! I just want to help people be more realistic with their planning. It is also important to note that the following courses once you actually have your PPL will be attained much closer to the required minimums, so...:

SE PPL: Minimum: 35hrs Realistic: 60-75hrs
IRC: Minimum: 35hrs Realistic: 45-50hrs
ME PPL: Minimum: 20hrs Realistic: 25hrs
ME CPL: Minimum: 35hrs Realistic: 35hrs (no buffer!)
CFI: Realistic: 10hrs
CFII: Realistic: 10hrs
MEI: Realistic: 12hrs

So from PPL to MEI - approximately: 200hrs - (+/- 20-30 depending on the individual)

Better to over-budget than to under-budget!

Good luck to you! Maybe see you around PEA one day.

Me.

*** I would advise looking at the 2008 FAR/AIM - it is THE source of information for pilots. It has all laws, requirements, information you could ever need including requirements for all part 61/141 courses - so you know exactly what is coming at you in th future.

[Mrglass]

"Hello Mrglass,
thank You very much for Your reply and information.
I already know that the formal minimum is just a legal minimum number, but not the real number most people need to complete their PPL.

Do You have any estimates whats the average number of flight lessons an average pilot student needs at PE to complete the PPL? Are Your 60 lessons within the average number most people need?
How was instructor and plane availability at PE?

Thanks and many greetings,
Asrian"

-----

I can give you the exact amount as it's all laid out on the course schedule:

Actual flight lessons: 26 flights
Stage check flights: 3
End of course flight: 1
Ground sessions (orals 1-1 with instructor): 17
Stage check orals: 3

Bear in mind the flights vary from th standard 2 hour block (which ends up being about 1.4-1.8 actual flight hours) to a 3 hour cross country block (approx 2.5-2.8 hours)

So the above are the minimums. You will most likely repeat a few flight lessons whilst trying to master the art of landing - everybody I know has had to do this.

Orals are 1 hr each @ $45/hr

The 60 hours I took to do everything concerning the PPL is above average i'd say. Most of the friends I made during the PPL are still working on it. Only a handful are now onto the IRC rating. This is due to many things - weather, availability of student, repeating lessons, how busy the instructor it etc etc.

I'd budget a range of 50hrs minimum to 75hrs absolute maximum for the PPL. 50hrs would be impressive indeed. All down to the individual.

Hope this helps.

The $14,088.00 I spent averages out to: $234.00 per flight hour (factoring in ground school, orals, FAA written exam, fuel surcharge, initial TSA security processing, books (for all of the courses, not just PPL), flight bags, headset, various other equipment, etc etc).

So 75hrs X $234 would come to: $17,550.00 absolute maximum.

In my experience, there have always been planes available (they get reserved when your lesson is "posted" onto the system) and my instructor basically got me flying at least 5 times per week once we got rolling.

Weather and learning to perfect landings were the only things that slowed me down.

Me.

[Pilot Positive]

Hi Flying Dutchman,

Here are some of my experiences of PEA - might be a bit dated now though.... :hmm:.

There are alot of sharks in the USA and especially in Florida as it is viewed as a holiday come fair Wx training region this side of Europe. PEA are not one of them. :cool:

They are a well managed organisation with good FAA instruction. Aircraft always available and there's a real sense of focus and working towards the same goal amongst students. Lends weight to quite a positive atmosphere. :) Ops really helpful and they recognise the value of your custom (unlike some ab initio training establishments in the UK :rolleyes: )Not sure if they have gone over to do JAR training as well??

However A word to the wise: if you get an examiner called Nancy who wears a "God loves you" necklace do not be fooled by her loving Grandma exterior otherwise she'll push you flat onto your face. :}

Anyone know if the mighty Mike Kolendo is still there??? If he is, remind him he still owes me sushi :cool:

Also...are the Gopsill brothers still about???? :}

Not trying to arrange a school reunion... just interested. :)

[nh2301]

More than three months and $14,000 for an FAA PPL?

Try a small 141 FBO, I'd expect one month and $6000.

[B2N2]

113 days :eek:
That would seem a little long.....

[Hufty]

Wow, I can't believe how much you spent on your PPL! $14,000 is way too much....half that would be a sensible figure, including all costs, for a Part 141 PPL.

As for the advice that you should budget for 75 hours and $17,500 for your PPL....I don't think that is right at all. It is achievable in 35 or 40 hours easily, especially if you are young and put the effort in. 75 hours (in my opinion and will probably be "corrected" by someone) indicates a problem....either with what you're being taught, the way you're being taught it or your ability to understand/apply what you're being taught??

For cost comparison, do searches for lots of other schools and find out how much a PPL there costs.

[suraci]

113 days to do PPL on a full time course? It can be done in a couple of weeks given reasonable weather, plan on 4 weeks max.