CASA should be ashamed

[lk978]

How bad can an organisation get? well i will tell you.

This all started about mid march when my ASIC of which i have had 1 already previously expired.

Now I went searching for a renewal form and found that they require the same information as i did on the initial issue. This to me seemed silly and odd.

But being the calm and collected individual i am i did the standard thing and got a jp to sign it. Which brings me to the point of why the hell can a teacher sign it and not a cheif pilot? and don’t give me that crap about being a government form and thats just what the rules are. as an ATO is authorised to do it as well. I want to know why a guy or girl who gets appointed by CASA as a CP doesn’t have the qualifications to say if im and a good guy.

So i sent in the forms signed by the JP, stupid me forgot to get the JP to write "this is a true copy of my passport". so i get it back in the mail and get annoyed, so i go and get my accountant to sign the form. and send it in.

3 weeks later turns up again at my house, sorry the person certifying the photo needs to certify the rest of the stuff.

no worries send back i with all signed by the same person, sent back again. "sorry you have 2 signatures on the photo. we cant work out who is authorising the application.

right so i have had enough. go to my lawyer with new form new photos, and send of with angry letter.

I get a call this morning 13/8/07. to say "we received your application however you have only put down one residential address"

and i said yes. well how long have you lived there and i said it is my current address and assuming that i haven’t put any other address before it i would guess about 3 days after i left hospital sucking on a nipple.

oh ok thank you,

oh and then came the next beauty, sir we have actually had a change in fees from July 2007. and i said lucky i put my application in before then isnt it.

well no, you se we need to charge you today at the 40% increased fee.

i was so angry i think i said yes that’s ok... no problem would you like me to pay the difference between the new price and what i paid last time too... its ok i earn lots of money and don’t pay any taxes for this service.

now my points,

- why isn’t their a simple renewal process, tick the box type thing and here is my new photo, especially since i only did 6 a six month stint in Guantanamo bay, the judge said it would be on my record.

- why can’t government departments certify the documents i mean is it that hard to access the passport info to check that is me

- why the hell do i pay 195 for an asic, isnt there a rental service available? new business idea someone with an asic hang out at the airport and let pilots who only fly once a month pay you $5 to walk them to their plane

- why is a teacher allowed to certify my documents?

- I haven’t hear of anyone being knocked back for an asic yet, i even saw a dude with 2 jail stints on his. so what’s the point?

So i have decided i am going to get my money’s worth, no i am not going o fly more, but when i am flying i am going to check that every other person is being ripped off as much as me, so watch out i am checking that you are wearing your asic correctly.

Well I have my medical due in a few weeks im sure that will be a breeze, just walk in flash the Medicare card and the rest is taken care of. I recon it will cost me about 15 minute of my life.

Oh wait just checked last year’s bill $300

And oh I have to pay to have my stuff printed now; I think I will take my chances. Isn’t the onus of proof on the plaintiff in a civil case?

I’d love to say that next time I get ramped. Well I am confident I can fly this thing. Mr FOI are you? If you don’t believe me I have a licence prove it.

$30 to have stuff printed and sent to you...



i love this place :ugh::mad::ouch::oh::{:}

[MR. PROACH]

I have had the same runaround with this ASIC stuff - and still awaiting the magic card.

My medical (albeit 1st class initial) is also many weeks in without a response (is that good news?)

I know we expect things a little quicker in the US, and I have no problem with protocol etc, but having asked one question which received two different answers from 2 different CASA people, and still awaiting the above, I have my doubts about just how organised they might be.......

Thankfully a helpful ATO, and a CASA chappie (oh how you shine) pointed me in the right direction on a number of issues.

That's aviation.

But, if you can't take a joke....:E

[Jabawocky]

Yes I have raised these issues with them but its not actually CASA's fault this time! Its DOTARS and the AFP checks etc etc......

Dare I say it, I have to defend CASA in this instance, although its the kind of Government BS you would otherwise expect to receive from them, but in this case they are just passing it along!:{

J

[multi_engined]

We've all had the CASA runaround but it's a government agency, we shouldn't expect anything to actually happen on time; the people behind the desk don't give a rats ass... They still get paid x amount whether they proccess 5 or 500 applications in a month.

Never expect red carpet service from these guys because you'll be sorely dissapointed.

[Arm out the window]

Yep, and the 'it's not us, it's DOTARS and the AFP' defence is a cop-out.
For my first (and only, so far) ASIC issue, they somehow lost my application between themselves and the AFP, did nothing until I got cranky after weeks worth of phone calls, admitted they didn't know where it was and got me to send another one in!
Where's the first one, you may ask? Who knows? Probably in Osama's bag of tricks by now.
All other issues aside, though, it's well and truly reinforced my belief in the policy of, when dealing with big faceless organisations, carefully noting time, date and name of person spoken to and what they said, so when you get someone else next time and they lie to you, you can say "well, that's the exact opposite of what John Smith said to me last time - what's the real story, and if you can't tell me, put me onto someone who can!"

[Islander Jock]

Dare I say it, I have to defend CASA in this instance, although its the kind of Government BS you would otherwise expect to receive from them, but in this case they are just passing it along!
Sorry Jabawocky, but the delay lays fare and square with CASA


I will reiterate the advice which I have given before on the matter of ASICs. "DO NOT APPLY FOR YOUR ASIC THROUGH CASA"

In some fairness to CASA we have to conceed that they have no control over the security checking process which currently is handled by AFP. However if you are a previous ASIC holder with no convictions since your last clearance, the process should take no longer than 10 working days. I have had some processed in as little as 7 working days. However the delay could well be how quickly CASA get's off their butt and sends fot forms to AFP for clearance. I have heard anecdotally that they hang onto the applications until they get a certain number of forms. Probably something to do with saving on postage. :rolleyes::rolleyes: When the checking system goes from AFP over to AUSCHECK, the process will all be carried out online and I am told they are targetting turnarounds of no more than 5 working days.


Once the clearance is given by AFP it is then over to CASA as an issuing authority to process the card application. In reality all this involves is making sure the applicant has the appropriate ID. CASA have some very anal interpretations on the DOTARS requirements for ID checking. I have been informed they will not issue a student pilot licence without an accompanying ASIC application - WTF???:mad::mad: Seems like blatant revenue raising to me. They don't seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that they are not the only issuing authority in the country and just per chance a student pilot might be working somewhere in the industry that requied him / her to hold an ASIC prior to taking up flying. As to the reason why a CFI can certify documents and a CP cannot I can't say for sure but I would guess it has something to do with instruments of delegation that are issued to the former. An additional delay will occur if CASA do not (and I suspect they don't) have thier own printing machine for the cards. In which case the request then has to go onto an issuing authority with a printing machine which may add another week or 10 days to the process depending upon who they use and how quickly they want to turn the requests around. The organisation that does mine at the moment is getting them back to me normally within a week to 10 days and that includes postage times.

My advice is go to the DOTARS list of issuing authorities, which is just about every security controlled airport in the country and ask if they will process the card for you. Some airports might not be willing to process your application as they are only processing for staff working on their airport or working for their organisation. If you do find another issuing authoity to issuie you a card, you will probably find it much cheaper than CASA. What a lot of people unfortunately don't know is that any issuing authority can issue an ASIC to any person requiring one....including pilots.

These guys especially are worth checking out http://www.aviationidaustralia.net.au/

[Bendo]

ASICs are one thing... should we open the whole AOC can of worms here?

How long do you reckon it takes to process a one-aeroplane, one-pilot, one-AWK-task AOC?

[lk978]

I love the pass the buck line they give the great thing about my situation it didn't even go past CASA it was just there bureaucratic bull dust.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Fellow pilot mate who is also heavy vehicle operator, had to apply for a MSIC to access the docks. Same checks asked as on ASIC. Took three working days from submitting form to receiving a new card. I kid you not!:mad:

[Jabawocky]

MSIC is not the same, its to a lower level. Seriously.

As for the delays, I have been told by a smaller organisation who also process them that the delays and time taken are at the AFP end for them also. My CASA issued card was back in under 6 weeks, so maybe I was lucky.

So maybe I am wrong here, will try out another agency next time round.

I do agree that there should be a renewal process thats quicker and cheaper.

J

[halfmoon]

It's called government bearaucracy. The more paperwork there is the more people they hire to shuffle papers and the more power they have. Australia and europe are good examples of this. But its okay because YOUR paying for it.

[Flyingblind]

Bring on the Election!

I have heard that KEVIN07 will drastically reduce the Public Service when he gets into power, then all will be sweetness and roses, ASIC, AOC etc all will be processed in a remarkably short time.

They (CASA,AsA and DoTARS) will initiate a major overhaul of their business models that will result in: an emphasis on customer focus and cost reduction programs to the client, this will allow for a simpler, more effective experience for our clients, whilst maintaining our commitment to 'our results focused outcome driven product delivery to the end user'.:yuk:

Don't hold yer breath though, big Gov (Tax) is hear to stay! :mad::mad:

[havick]

OK, so I am usually a CASA basher in most instances... But it's not exactly their fault that you didn't fill in the forms properly in the first place.

[frothy]

Just renewed mine thru the people in Merimula, lodged with them on line with the originals going by snail mail. Got the new one today, pickup at the PO just show the Drivers Licence. All inside 3 weeks. The crew at Merimbula even advised me to go a bit early on renewal to same money prior to the price increase. If I've got the choice of taking CASA out of the equation then that's the path I'll take
Give 'em nothin' take 'em nowhere:}

[Islander Jock]

:ok:Well done Frothy. I personally haven't used Merimula but have spoken on the phone the gentleman who runs it and they seem like a top notch outfit. Best of luck to them and it can only be to all pilot's advantage to go through an organisation like that rather than have to jump through the hoops that CASA set up.

[corowacomet]

Another vote for the guys at Aviation Id Australia, they are very good and make an effort to contact you if there are any problems with the application or renewal so delays because of finger trouble or missing documents don't cause a problem.
Frothy: "If I've got the choice of taking CASA out of the equation then that's the path I'll take
Give 'em nothin' take 'em nowhere"
Couldn't agree more!

[Trash Hauler]

Mine took 5 weeks with CASA. I'm sure having the forms correctly filled out helped. But I learnt that from every other government department I deal with...........RTA, medicare, tax office, DEFAT (tried getting a passport renewed with the forms filled out incorrectly?) all have to be filled out correctly or no progress.............

[emu787]

Well, I totally agree with Transport Security, however the ASIC is one of the greatest con jobs bestowed upon the Australian Aviation Industry.

Division 3.2, subsection 3.05 of the Transport Security Regulations 2005 EXEMPT and I mean EXEMPT the crew of FOREIGN AIRLINES from having an Australian ASIC!!! NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...NO ASIO CLEARANCE...NO AFP CHECK...NO CRIMMINAL HISTORY...HA..HA..HA

They like everybody else in the Aviation World (except Australia)only have to display a COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD.

Well mateys.....these airlines (foreign) carried more than 20 million passengers IN/OUT of Australia LAST YEAR!!!!!! and in BIG PLANES.

Write to your Federal Member of Parliament and get the Regs changed....why do we have to put up with this crap in Australia....if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD....NO MORE WANK ASIC'S....THATS THE WAY IT IS ALL OVER THE WORLD...

Just like the new regs for alcohol/drugs testing....act now or forever be bloody silent!

[Counter-rotation]

Bravo that man, good advice. :D

Everyone write a letter or cease complaining on PPRuNe.

OK serious question time. I wrote a letter (email actually), and the other day I received a call from David Tollner's office. He wants to meet with me to discuss this issue... Now I am pretty keen to make this count. If I can't change anything or whatever that's fine but I'm going to have a go.

So, all out there -
IF YOU COULD GET IN THIS MINISTER'S EAR, WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT THIS?

Serious, constructive stuff please. I have my own thoughts, but would also love to hear from all of you. Anyone with the old "don't worry nothing will change" I don't want to hear it. You may be right, but as I said I intend to have a RHG at getting some sense put back into this FIASCO.

CR.
Thanks all, for your help. :ok:

[emu787]

Company ID will be same format
The company ISSUED ID will be of a prescribed format ie.same as the current ASIC and it will be worn and produced as prescribed......

the point is if its good enough for the goose then its good enough for the gander and will not cost $190 and will be valid as long as you are employed.....a far safer and cost effective model than five government departments running around trying to administer an idea somebody dreamt up but did not think about it.....

dont forget....foreign pilots and cabin crew are flying 20 million pax in and out of Australia every year......NO ASIC...NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...........so whats the bloody point!

99% of the worlds aviation use and accept company issued ID cards!

As for Airport Staff...the same goes.....its up to the company to administer as per the prescribed regulations. We are trusted to operate aeroplanes and carry passengers but we are not trusted in assessing our own pilots for security....what a load of cods wallop....just another hijacking (pardon the pun) of the industry money by wayward out of control government departments all scrapping for power!!!!!

I will stand by my comment....its just another bloody government con job!

$$$$$$$$ Asic $$$$$$$$


don't forget about the COST mateys....over a ten year period without inflation the industry who did not ask for this impost will fork out more than $50 Million....why....why.....

if its so important then I will say again why don't foreign crew need one ?????? carting more than 20 million passengers each year.

$50 million dollars could be spent on SAFETY !!! I bet I could do the same type of card in the same prescribed format for under $10....thats a saving to the DOMESTIC aviation industry of about $48 Million dollars over 10 years......the greatest con ever but I am sure there is more coming!

As a once famous aviation person said.....I am all for AFFORDABLE aviation safety....now its time for AFFORDABLE aviation security!

THANKS FOR LISTENING.

[frothy]

CR
Your fortunate in the fact you can get to see your local MP, ours(Paul Neville) in Hinkler won't even reply to written corro. and never available on the phone. Watching him in Question time, everytime he gets up to ask a dorothy dixer he can't get it out as he breaks into laughing or coughinf fits, he proves you don't have a long neck and a big bill to be a goose.
I'm in CQ and in the new seat of Flynn so I am trying to communicate with the aspirants as to trying to get some sensibility back into the Aviation Security scene.
emu787
Your right,inbound flights and crews apparently terror free whereas the Thangool or Roma to BNE are a high terror risk and a killer B58 going into YQLP or YROM are a definite danger to National Security.
All Pilots and associates should pepper the Candidates for Flynn for some sensibility in this cr*p fight, and yes this includes AOCs,Licencing,Regos and so the list goes on.
Ironic, at the start I went for months to get the ASIC, now I have two both current, I wonder if I'll get the boys in black suit visit. I don't know if I have to send the old one back to Merimbula, waiting on a reply with advice
frothy