Can low hours Biz Jets pilots transfer to commercial airlines?

[nimbus21]

Grateful for some advice on the following questions....

1. Is it possible for a low hours (500-1000 hrs) first officer of Biz Jets to transfer to the mass market commercial airlines as a first officer flying jets like 737s, A319/20/21, etc?

2. How would a low hours biz jet pilot make this transfer to the airlines when they only have a type rating for an aircraft like a Citation Bravo / Excel? Would they have to pay for their own type rating on, for example, a 737?

3. Is there an age limit (official or unofficial) for a pilot to gain a new type rating on, for example a 737? Once pilots are qualified, can they train to fly different aircraft at any age?

Basically, I have been offered a job as a Biz Jet pilot but I think I might prefer to be a pilot on the larger jet aircraft like the 737, A319, etc, etc. My dilemma is therefore do I accept the job as a biz Jet pilot to build up my hours from zero, and then try to transfer across to an airline, or do I decide not to take the Biz Jet job as my first job but try to get my first job with a mass market commercial airline?

Any advice appreciated.

[FL470]

Biz jet flying is not the right thing to build up thousands of hours :=

[nimbus21]

Why wont Biz Jets allow somone to build their hours quickly? What if you fly for one of the larger Biz Jet companies like Netjets of Citationshares? The work seems pretty regular and I would imagine you could build your hours fairly quickly?

Would you suggest I hold out for a first job with the big commercial airlines rather than doing Biz jets to build my hours? I currently have zero hours but I am currently attending flight school undertaking ground studies.

[pilotarosa]

if you are low hours...expecially zero hour...you should accept anything you can get as long as it's legal.....and BE GRATEFULL
it would not be correct though towards your new company to go in it as a stepping stone from day one.
reflect.....why do you want to fly airline?B737etc?...is it becuase it looks cooler in the pub?
if you like flying you will get much more real flying with a bizjet operator than with an airline....more variety, and probably more challenges.
for what roster is concern...I am moving from an airline to bizjet also because of the better roster:p
at the end of the day it's your call, but remeber you only fly the front of the plane and after a couple of months also that is not so exciting anymore....what's more exciting is where you fly, the approaches, and the roster.
hope this help

[nimbus21]

Thanks for replying. My only problem with flying biz jets is the roster, rather than the aircraft type. It is 6 days on tour with 5 days off. I'm just concerned that it is not conducive to a 'normal' family life. i'm not married and dont have kids at the moment, but it doesn't mean that I dont want them in the future. I'm also not sure if I fancy spending half my life living in a hotel.

I wouldn't want to work the 6 on / 5 off roster forever, i would prefer to join the short haul airlines in Europe for a more normal roster like Easyjet and Ryanair, etc.

What i am really concerned about is that if I join the biz jet world, then i'll be stuck in it forever doing a 6 on / 5 off lifestyle, and i wont ever be able to get out of it and move into a more normal working roster with the big airlines. So my dilemma is: do I join biz jets for a couple of years as my first job to build my hours (I believe your first job in aviation is always the hardest one to get) and then try to move to the big commercial airlines, or do I hold out for a commercial airline job as my first job so that it avoids the problems (e.g. type rating, not having hours on medium size jets, etc) of having to convert from Biz jets to commercial airlines?

Would 500-1000 hours on a biz jet like the citation bravo be attractive to an airline, or would they prefer pilots with hours already accrued on the medium jets like 737 etc?

Any further advice appreciated.

[pilotarosa]

read you pm

[Empty Cruise]

Nimbus21,

When you describe a "normal" roster like EZ or FR, you only get half the picture. OK, so you're home every night, but how much does your family get to see you?

If you are the "early bird"-type, the lates will see you wasted, and if you like your lie-ins, the earlies will have you for breakfast :zzz: In other words 5E/4o/5L/4o in my case translates to 5 zombie/1 recovery day/3 off/5 enjoy your lie-ins/4 off.

I'm not living in a hotel room on my earlies, but by God, I wish I were!

Re. wether the the airlines want to see you experienced on their equipment: the serious airlies - yes, because you then represent less of a training risk. If you go to FR, OTOH, they won't touch you with a bargepole, unless you fork out for a "new" TR - if you're the one paying, you represent no training risk at all, and should you fail, hey - we have a hundred more like you lined up... :sad:

[hollingworthp]

Why wont Biz Jets allow somone to build their hours quickly? What if you fly for one of the larger Biz Jet companies like Netjets of Citationshares? The work seems pretty regular and I would imagine you could build your hours fairly quickly

The airlines have full schedules which are planned in advance so it is fairly straightforward to get the most efficient use of the crew resource. You only make money for the company when you are flying so they will squeeze the full 900 hours out of you. I am led to believe that even the likes of BA will fly you to the legal limit although perhaps this will be spread across the year rather than the traditional busy periods with the LCC's.

Biz Jets would love to maximise their use of you also but the nature of the owners and their requirements is such that you may end up flying around 450 hours a year with lots of hanging around and last-minute schedule changes. Not that this means you won't be as tired but it should mean much more real flying with a wide variety of destinations.

Also - don't expect to join an airline straight into a cushy route - expect to be on-call and to fly the routes that the more senior crews don't want.

[pilotarosa]

excellent point....i am at home every night too...3earlies 2 or 3 lates and 2 days off...then early again......last weekend off was last november....so do your calculation on how much i see my partner who work monday to friday...
.....there is an advantage though...the dog has always someone in the house:E
I also think that if you go to NJE as it seems from you raster pattern tyhe airlines (at least mine) would consider you, bec ause some how they consider NJE more of an airline then a BIZ jet operator

+ think better 1000/2000 hours experince on a BJ or 150 hours on a piper?

[nimbus21]

So, basically, you are advising taking the Biz jet job, build my hours up from zero to around 1500, and then if I decide the mass pax airlines are more for me, then either pay for my own type rating and then approach the airlines for a job, or apply direct to an airline and use their type rating programme, after which they will probably bond me?

pilotarosa - who do you fly for if you dont mind me asking?

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Nimbus21 I am not sure how much you know about the aviation industry and how hard/easy it is to get a job, any job for a low timer...
But remember, a job is a job and that should be your first priority.
Then the type of aircraft/flying then the hours you will fly or the money you will make (to reimburse those big debts of yours).

Of course it is possible to end up flying for the airlines after a Biz jet job. It is possible with 250 hours and no time on anything bigger than a seneca too.
It is an attitude thing rather than anything else. If you are the safety minded type of guy who likes SOPs, 2 Crew environment then the transition won't be a problem.
The only problem will come if you try to be too clever with jobs and the job market collapses because then the airlines, the business jets operators and banner towing companies will stop all hiring.
Guess what ? You could well end up with no job, no hours but huge debts to repay. Huge debts means no more flying so hardly current if at all and certainly not proficient for a sim ride or whatever else.
Worse, people with 1000s of hours will be on the market ready to take anything until things get better (I know because I would).

So take that job, enjoy it, put it on your CV, your hours in the logbook and keep looking for other opportunities.

[nimbus21]

Cheers for the advice.

I might actually enjoy it once i get into Biz jet flying, I'm just being cautious at the moment as I dont want to be stuck in a job that I might find that i no longer enjoy (for whatever reason), so I want to make sure that the avenue into the mas pax airlines will be open for me in the future if I decide that is the route i want to go.

[312sqnVolkel]

Don`t be afraid of Bizzjet flying and take the job! It is very good experience especially to improve your handling skills on a high performance jet. I started last year on a brand new Citation XLS after I graduated from an integrated course. This summer I made the transition to the 767 for an airliner...enjoy the ride a take that job and keep your eyes opened! :eek:

Cheers!

[Ricardo82]

Buddy,

there is no question that the airline world is different to the biz-jet world.
Don't look at biz jets as a way of getting into the airlines because it isn't really. You have to be committed and see biz jets as a real career opportunity.

It isn't a way of building hours because you will only do about 450 hrs flying a year. From my experience, the roster is a myth in biz jets. Companies like NJE have a roster like you said 6 on 5 off but you need about 1500 hours experience and 500 on type before you can even consider them. You have to start with a smaller company or an air-taxi company where a roster is non existent. Can you see why it doesn't really seem to be a stepping stone, it's a long term career prospect.

Most biz jet operators tend to want considerable experience anyway because the flying can be very challenging. It's not all this rigid, boring SOP flying that the airlines do. Excuse me for being biased but the flying in the biz jet world is far more exciting and much more rewarding. Flying the ILS when you can see the runway from 20 miles final seems ludicrous to me!

In the biz jet world you fly into some truly fantastic airfields which whilst being tricky are so much fun. Trust me if you get your foot into the biz jet door you will become a pilot with some great and very valuable experience under your belt.

To sum it up, the biz-jet side of aviation is a career path not a stepping stone. If you want to experience some real flying then it might be for you. You also get to see and stay in some great places. Try the Cannes Film festival for three days. Not sure Easy jet will stretch that far!

But if it's the big jets that you want, along with all the SOPs and 'keep you hands off' flying. Then go with the Airlines. You might get a stable roster pattern but how stable can you call it really!?!

Hope it's a little bit of an insight if not slightly biased.

Good luck!!!:ok:

[apruneuk]

Nimbus

Sorry if I missed it earlier, but what is your flying experience so far?

[dynamite dean]

Go for whichever suits you, I fly a business jet and want a career with many aspects to it as part of a long term career. Get on with whatever you want to do, If it hasnt been already said I believe the cross over is a state of mind rather than airplane type. Otherwise how on earth did we all progress from our previous flying - we didn't start on biz jets did we?!!!

I never quite undertsand why people in the UK biz jet fraternity are far too easy to cast the die once its set - remember aviation is an ever changing dynamic; so are you , so is your career , so is your company and so is the aeroplane you fly.

I've done allsorts of flying and biz jet stuff is just but one aspect of the game!:ok::ok: