how is life as a freighter dog?

[JIC]

Hey.

I am writing just to hear how you freighter dogs look at your lifestyle as a freighter dog. Good as well bad things.

Personally I am a low timer and have just been employed in Air Contractors. I am of course very excited. the reason for my interest in the lifestyle as a freighter dog is, my farther is flying for SAS, so I believe I have a good idea of how the lifestyle is in a passanger airline. So I am about to start a carrier in a field I don't know much about.

Another question to those who have been flying cargo the most of their carrier and to those who prefers to fly cargo, what is it about flying cargo ?

I hope some will tell their story. I will be an excited reader :)

Thank you very much .

JIC.

[CR2]

Cargo = no pax/cc.

:ok:

[Earl]

First its freight dog, not freighter dog.
Second cargo never complains about delays, temperature, or some flight attendant they had a problem with.
Flew cargo before, back to Pax now, cargo was much better.
But rule number one with pax, never marry the flight attendant, the women they put on the freighter to handle the horses are a much better option, ha ha.
Hope this helps.

[ship's power]

Life as a Freight Dog? - Love / loved it! - Another world, especially before 9/11.

Sometimes upon arrival, you would clear customs while still on board the airplane and away from the crowds - with a limo (loaded with ice cold beer) waiting at the foot of the airstairs to chauffer you directly to your 4 star hotel. . . . Hard to beat that!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/jbermo/Trnsfer4047.jpg - True!

[fow]

I have been flying for a regional airline since 10 years and will change in the near future to a cargo airline flying within europe.

With the regional airline I had approx. 10-12 overnights, 140 to 170 hours duty a month and up to 5 sectors a day, minimum 2 sectors.
With 10 days off I was not at home a lot of time due to the overnights.

Now I hope for a better lifestyle.

I will have 10 to 11 off days a month add. with the starting and ending days.
What I do not know is, how do I bear the night time flying?
How many days a month will I have to stay away from home in hotels?

Flying cargo on long haul routes is quite different to that flying during night 2 or 3 sectors, I guess.

However,I am curious about it.

@ earl
Why is cargo much better, apart from the flight attendant and why do you went back to pax then?

cheers
fow

[Whaledog]

Cargo flying
Been ther done that at two Major passenger airlines, ( Bankrupt)

Cleared direct to xxx ! No long delays for traffic, NO Passenger terminals!!
Very good crew meals, Going to the john when ever you want/need, without asking a fa to hold it for you. ( The door). Nice long layovers...;)
You don't really care if you have light turb. I'm OK as long as my Coffee doen't spill, Yup Strong Coffee or Tea required.
The Bad, FAR 121 Supp REgs Duty times....
You'd better pay close attention to your local Mx..

!!The best part, very litle BS while at work!!

WD

[sapco2]

Overall I prefer freight flying too, albeit my view of freighting is not entirely shared by some of my existing and former colleagues. A high percentage from the company I work for have voted with their feet and gone to pastures new and as far as I can ascertain the reasons result from lack of forthright management style rather than the actual job.

Complaints I've heard from newjoiners on the line include:

1. They have been promised 10 - 12 days off a month; if that's the case then the onus is on management to honour the commitment for all pilots!

2. Quoting 170 duty hours a month is one thing but management need to expand on the facts by informing applicants that time spent away from home is likely to equate to about 70 hours a week, living from a suitcase.

3. Varying start salaries are causing some dissent

Here is my advice to management (because I know you read this stuff):

1. Be totally honest. Tell applicants 'how it is' and not a spun version of what 'you as managers' want them to hear.

2. Pilots in general are people of high integrity who have worked hard to achieve their licences. If they feel conned in any way, they are likely to be very unforgiving!

[hardcase]

life with ACL will be 2 weeks working nights based away from home (usually). The flying is good, pay is good for TP and the guys who work there are mostly good guys, some of whom have been freight dogs for a long time. You will then have 7-8 days off and then 6 days contactable or rostered 6 days work, again away from home.

its nice not having passengers to worry about, the sectors aren't too long and the ATR is nice to fly. You end up with weekends off to travel home or stay in the hotel and enjoy the local night life.

i find with ACL most low hours joiners usually stay 18-24 months, get some hours and then move onto passenger airlines. The most common reason is night flying and being away from home too much.

[WatchThisAirSpace]

Nice insights from all above.

other question I have for you is a training related one.

is there a different training route or standard required for Cargo Ops :cool: rather than squishy-civilian-bod flying? ( :rolleyes: Passengers!)

From the sound of it, there might be more room to concentrate on enjoying flying rather than worry about pax related protocols etc.

Sounds like a great life to me - any stories to share would be nice!

Thanks! :D

WTAS

[16down2togo]

Welcome young man,
as well as I do hope your father is not too much of a farther, sorry for that one, could't help myself,
try to find your way through the industry, freight is a pleasant way of flying, if you get to the right levels of the industry. There is a lot of freight outfits around which are considered to be at the bottom of the industry. Do not get this wrong, there's a lot of paxing which, nowadays, is at the same level but still.
After having done both, the only thing I can tell you is, it's less stress, better rosters, and flying whise more what a pilot wants if you get to into the wright companies. No flight attendants if this is what you are looking for, even though the searching ones have a certain antenna for freighter pilots.
Try to get a good job and then after a couple of years, try to make your mind up if you want to fly slf or boxes, hope you'll get the choice.
All the best.

[BelArgUSA]

With PanAm, I flew 707, 727 and 747 cargo airplanes rather frequently, and also by choice. As I was instructor in the training department, we often used selected cargo flights for initial line training of pilots and flight engineers. To mention also, the freighter aircraft we operated were often the "best" versions of the aircraft model, higher weights and more powerful engines.
xxx
During a layoff from PanAm, I got the chance to fly DC8-63F and 73F, which were outstanding airplanes, plenty of power with the CFM-56 engine version.
xxx
After PanAm bankruptcy in 1991, I flew a 6 month contract with Cargolux, which I consider a great cargo airline. With them, I flew their 747-271Cs, the last year they operated the 200s and were in the process of getting 400Fs, so they needed short term contract pilots while their crews were on training for the 400 planes.
xxx
An amazing fact, the upper deck of the Cargolux 747-271C had 16 F class seats, as they could carry passengers, and in that case, would have a flight attendant on board... as an example, we flew Mercedes cars for the Dubai Car Show, and we had the VIPs of the Daimler-Benz on board being served champagne, and lobster... on the way to Dubai... top class service.
xxx
I am now with Aerolineas Argentinas, we have leased 747 cargo airplanes at times, and I always requested these cargo flights. The culture with many passenger airlines, is that cargo pilots are in a "lower class" than those who fly passengers. That is the old legends of the pre-1970 years... Take FedEx or UPS pilots, who are enjoying higher salaries than pilots with numerous passenger airlines...
xxx
I personally prefer cargo flights. As mentioned above and other places, more often "on time" than passenger flights, and no complaints from boxes. Flying for "passenger comfort" is sometimes reducing you bank for turns to 20º, whereas you really should do 30º bank as procedures require, but then, passengers think you fly acrobatics...
xxx
One thing that should be mentioned of flying cargo, is the concern of "weight and balance", critical in a 747 cargo, which is not the case of 747 passenger airplanes. With passenger 747, if it fits in the plane, no matter where they sit, or the belly cargo is, nothing to worry about. In a 747 cargo airplane, an error could lead to disaster...
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[BristolScout]

Can I just ask, as a long-time slf man, now working in the aerospace industry, whether cargo outfits (non-US) generally retire pilots at 60 or 65? Yep, aged 57, I'd like to come back!

[JW411]

I flew my last passenger flight in 1986 (380 of them on that flight). I really had had an overdose of passenger flying by then, having started moving punters around in 1962.

I got pointed in the direction of a new start-up cargo operation operating brand new freighters and loved it so much that I stayed until I had to retire at age 65 some 19 years later.

I got payed well (and always on time) and ended up with a good pension. The flying was demanding and mostly at night but I had lots of days off and plenty of leave. However, the main advantage was that flying boxes around was so much easier on the health than SLF.

I only flew around 350 - 400 hours per year. My old mates were in the bucket and spade brigade and they were flying 900 hours a year of which 300-odd were at night anyway. I just didn't have to bother with the 500 hours day!

If you can find a good cargo job then go for it.

[BelArgUSA]

Attn.: Bristol Scout - subject 60 or 65 limit...
xxx
Licences do not have "cargo airplanes only" as limitation...
There is no "different limit" that I know as far as age flying cargo or passenger aircraft in national regulations of air carriers in the world. Licencing age limit do not address one or the other. Prior to the new 65 age limit which is fostered by ICAO, countries forced retirement of pilots as early as 55, and some had NO age limit...
xxx
As an example, the US still tries to maintain a 60 limit for pilots, yet flight engineers can fly with no age limitation. Italy also tries to maintain an age 60 limitation (their new cargo operation - Ocean - with 747s, has such limit). It is likely that the limited availability of highly experienced "senior" pilots might force them to accept pilots for hire over age 60... Here in Argentina, we always had a 65 limit, for pilots or flight engineers. I intend to continue to fly until my 65th birthday... Having learned to fly at age 15, I think I have acquired enough "stick time" in half a century.
xxx
Planning to retire at the beach in Brazil, I might plan to "continue my career" towing banners for "suntan lotions" on week-ends with a Super Cub. I recently applied for a Brazilian CPL/VFR licence. I asked if there was an age limit. With a wink in their eyes, they said "99"...
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[Lemper]

Boxes don' bitch. One thing leading to another, on the subject of no flight attendant on board of cargo flights, why would one want (say this tan time very quickly!) to take his own mustard to Dijon, or his own saussages to Frankfurt? And for those flying the FAr East, one wouln't take his own caviar to the Tour D'Argent, would one?

[ABUKABOY]

Shadowed JW411 for past 18 years , and heartily agree with everything he has said in post #13.
But then we were working for a very excellent freighter company.

[747drivers]

if you want your schedule changed every hour.....:yuk: join a freight outfit...

[JW411]

Yes dear boy, but as long as your days off are set in stone (and that has been my experience) it really doesn't matter a damn where you go in between!

[Ghostie31]

Have frieght companies ever been known to help with the costs of training for a student pilot? How do you go about obtaining a job with a frieght company?

Thanks

Ghostie

[LLuke]

We do both 747 freighters and combi's. Both have their charms.

Returned last week from PVG, our crew brought 2 bicycles, flash lights, DVD's, clothes, infant seat, etc... This also happens on PAX flights, but is obviously easier with cargo-only flights although we cannot check in any of the stuff like with pax flghts, but have to carry everything ourselves.

Agree with the better off-peak times. Food is for us the same. Though I have a good time, I miss the lovely ladies after a while.

Training is the same.

Ciao,

[747drivers]

@JW 411 you are absoutley right but the outfit i work for touch your off days which really sucks:bored:

[dragon521]

Hi,

If you want shiny new airplanes, stay out of freight!
If you want status, or parade around a terminal in a nice uniform, forget about freight, nothing glorious about a freight ramp @0400AM!
If you want to wake up early, against your body clock, fly freight!
If you want to fly at night, fly freight!
If you always want a drinking budy in the crew, fly a 3 crew freighter!
If you like steady rosters, do not fly freight!

In my opinion, flying cargo is great!!

[TenAndie]

If you want to wake up early, against your body clock, fly freight!


I think you have that the wrong way round. If you want to wake up at 4am, fly pax. If you fly freight then at 4am you will have already been up for 7 hours !

[dragon521]

LOL,

Not if you are on the other side of the world and your bodyclock says "sleep", and the boss says "work".

[covec]

Guys n Gals

I am having trouble deciding whether to stay in the military - as rear crew - earning a final salary pension and circa £48000pa - lotsa time in sandy areas - getting rocketed - secondary duty crap - but good drinking buddies OR...

...flying freight as a newbie! I know where my heart is - but that bl00dy pension is a very effective anchor to a family man - as is the wage.

Why freight? I prefer stout to GnT; Vindaloo to hor 'douvres (sp?) [No offence, FDs!];)

Don't mind night flying - and at least time away from home is not months away wearing in desert camouflage!

Advice anyone?

Fly safe.

[rodthesod]

Have flown pax with UK shorthaul - hard work and pax a pain in the butt.

Have flown shiny exotic exec jets - 365/24/7 standby and pax a pain in the butt.

Joined cargo airline in 1987 with JW411 - everything he says is true. They gave me great oportunities, rapid promotion and advancement to management - the hardest work I ever had to do was write training manuals. I found night-flying far more relaxed and stress-free than the daytime rat-race.

Find a good freight operation and you'll never look back - good luck.

rts

[liftman]

...good freight companies to apply for?....

I am interested

[johnjon683]

I have been working in 121 ACMI work for some time now. I flew turboprops for Feeder Services at Empire, now on an MD-11 operation flying long-haul contracts across the globe (Africa, Europe, India, China, Saudi Arabia, South America). The bad? Commercialing 16 hours to Mumbai, or Shanghai into position, being married and seeing the wife 12 days out of the month (I actually love my wife unlike most, so seeing her more is a good thing), not being able to plan anything more than a few days prior except hard days off. Banking, Bill Pay, Important dates either for business, or personal reasons. Jet-Lag, sleeping habits... I'm a church go'er so, becoming actively involved in that requires more time spent at home, which is not possible now. The Good? Long Periods OFF...I mean, OFF!!! No one bugging you, or pissing down your throat about nagging work scedules and scheduling problems. Solid Pay Check, Always On-Time, Always in my bank account, like clock work. Traveling, Traveling....Always seeing new destinations, or repeated old ones with new culture, new way of thinking, differents perspectives. My current position allows me to be home based(BIG PLUS on this one), so I can basically live where I want to in the states, No jump seating to work. I am a pilot who actually enjoys working/bidding reserve lines and so, I get to be constantly flying with people I have not seen for long periods, or with entirely new folks too. I tried to fly corporate for one year in New York, HATED IT!! Nagging, Childs Play, back stabbing, people whining and turning others in for small chicken-crap no-brainer issues. Most corporate is hard to stick with, due to the schedules, the game-playing and the Non-Union environment, plus the pay is no longer what it was in the eighties/nineties, everything is turning Fractional these days, hope all of this is useful. :cool:

[Cave OK]

Love it!

If you wanna go direct from A to Z
If you wanna listen to nobody else whining on freq
If you wanna know what you're doing 2-3 months in advance (and that's if you're not on a fixed roster)
If you wanna stay in 4/5 star hotels on day-stops
If you wanna have a chilled-out life

Fly night freight

If you wanna have fun with hosties - don't!

Cave xx

[fingal flyer]

Nowadays probably the best kept secret in aviation,as long as the company believe in doing it properly.Gave up night freight in 96 to go and fly my shiney new jet with pax as a young man(thought it was a good idea)but came back in 99 as a 2 year solution to a problem,but funny old thing I'm still here.Don't see myself going anywhere else unless they drive me out.I'm a full time family man,part time tourist on company time.Could probably be better but heh not much.

[satepadang]

Hi JIC,

I work in the far east, the company is operating both pax and freight, lately I prefer the freight better because I don't have to deal with all the complaints from pax and all the delays caused by security. We usually go to the airplane through the back door of the airport, no taking off shoes etc:{ , schedule wise not too bad, I can't complaint about hotels, working condition is 22 on - 8 off. By the way their airplanes are brand new 747, what can I ask more? More money.......:ok: