Passengers on steps during refueling

[britannia301b]

Can anyone assist me as to whether it is (a) legal and (b) safe for Thomsonfly passengers to be held on a 757's steps for 25 minutes while the aircraft was refueling in Palma.?

[Saintsman]

Why would it be unsafe? If you are thinking of fire, you are far more at risk filing your car up because it is open line.

That said, why would they keep you waiting on the steps? I've been on board many a time whilst the aircraft was refuelled.

Thinking more though, I assume that they didn't pull the steps slightly away from the aircraft (passengers might fall through the gap). If they didn't, there is the danger of damage to the aircraft against the steps, due to the aircraft dropping with all the additional weight of the fuel on board.

[Standard Noise]

To answer your question, you need to speak to someone from that part of Europe. Happens at Bristol on a regular basis. AFAIK it's perfectly legal but I could be wrong.
I remember the days when it at least necessitated a call out of the RFFS in case it all went 'mammaries skywards'.

[Final 3 Greens]

What time of day was it?

Not a clever idea to leave people exposed to strong sunlight for 25 mins, IMHO.

That's long enough to catch a nasty case of sunburn at this time of year in the Med and skin cancer is not to be taken lightly.

[J McK]

At BFS we handled 737's, 757's, 767's and A319's which could be refuelled during boarding as long as the fire service was notified that it was taking place. They weren't present on stand but were prepared to attend if required. The only aircraft we couldn't do this on was an L410, had to wait for refuelling to complete before boarding.

[TightSlot]

an anyone assist me as to whether it is (a) legal and (b) safe for Thomsonfly passengers to be held on a 757's steps for 25 minutes while the aircraft was refueling in Palma.?

It is both legal and safe, but also undesirable and unusual. Was any explanation offered? For example, could an anticipated imminent completion of fuelling have been delayed by a bowser fault, or the bowser simply running out of fuel? These are just guesses, since the situation you describe in not a normal situation

[Diedtrying]

Check out https://www.auc.org.uk/docs/33/CAP748.PDF

Chapter 2, Apron Safety Management.

This will tell you what you need to know.

[BOAC]

I cannot recall exactly but I know that country to country the regs for refuelling with pax aboard changes. It may be that it is not allowed in PMI so by keeping them on the steps they are not 'on board'? The alternative would be not to call the busses or to send the pax back to the terminal with the inevitable..................

Some countries allow refuel with pax on board with fire cover. It could also be that this had been arranged and then did not turn up or was delayed.

Sounds like lateral thinking to me by the crew:). I would hazard a guess that most of the pax went to PMI to get blistered, trashed and red anyway.:ugh:

[pamann]

Just to clarify as a crew member that regularly operates into/out of PMI, you can not board pax in Spain whilst re-fuelling. With the exception (before anyone jumps in) Ryanair who I believe do but have to have the airport firebrigade in attendance (I could be wrong it's from what I understand). Then I guess MOL seems to and does what he likes and often gets away with it. Very odd to keep you on the steps agreed, usually held on the bus if there is a delay with fuelling, but i'm not sure what's worse in the mid-summer heat? :confused:

[Final 3 Greens]

Pamann


You say...

but i'm not sure what's worse in the mid-summer heat?

Assuming a flight during the hours of 0930-1630.

Unless the bus has air con, it would be extremely unpleasant. However, the windows/roof are effective UV filters, so given the choice (as a med resident, who is used to dealing with the threat of skin cancer on a daily basis), I'd be on the bus.

The cumulative effect of over exposing the skin to UV is serious and at this time of year the UV levels are very high, especially for those under 20.

So I have no doubt that holding on the steps ins the worse option, whereas holding on the bus is the less worse option.

[Runway 31]

I flew out of Venice with Titan a fortnight ago and we refuelled with the passengers on board. The passengers were told not to fasten seatbelts until instructed and the Fire Brigade had an appliance in attendance.

[redfield]

StandardNoise: just to clear something up here: we absolutely do NOT keep passengers waiting on an aircraft stairs while it's refuelling! Boarding during refuelling is acceptable provided both the a/c doors are open and both sets of steps are in position, and some airlines ask for fire cover as per their own company's policy, but we DON'T keep pax waiting on the steps!!!! Whatever gave you this idea? :=

....Runway31 - that's Easyjet's policy at BRS as well: seatbelts not fastened if the a/c is refuelling.

[Standard Noise]

Oh Reddo, untwist yer knickers. I obviously didn't make myself clear. I have seen refuelling take place while punters are bums on seats. I have not seen it happen while they are trogging up the steps at any airport I've worked at, neither did I actually say that I've seen punters at Briss held on the steps while the refuelling takes place. Sorry if I sent you into a headspin. I fell into the same trap I had a go at the boy for, ambiguity, must be catching. Old age I suppose.

BTW, let me know next time yer flying out of Briss and I'll do my best...........................to see that you're late!:}

[TurtleMaster]

You cannot refuel in Spain with passengers on board.

[howflytrg]

Thats not the case anymore turtlemaster.

Used to be the case that you could refuel with adequate fire cover ie a fire appliance sttod on the stand whilst refuelling was taking place. Now its just the same as in the UK. Italy is the same. However some airfields may have this restriction still in force.

[caaardiff]

Sounds like a case of passengers were sent to the aircraft and allowed up the steps before the crew had given the all clear to the ground staff. Probably no1 there, or pointless to take them back to the terminal, so were just held on steps.

In my experience at CWL the usual procedure is steps on and engineer or pilots present. No pilots/engineer, no boarding.
Should there be a reason for re-fuelling, or a top up once all passengers are on, and a/c is ready to go. Then 1 set of steps at front, and doors armed at rear.