Gulf Air New Package

[LOC STAR]

Any news with regards to Gulf Air coming up with a new Package.:D

[Mephistopheles]

Plenty of rumours but no hard evidence yet. I will believe it only when i tear open, maybe?, 1 of my last GF payslips.
People are talking of around a BD500 increment. Let's hope gotta send the wife & kids on holiday.

[brassplate]

i gotta say if it's anything like rumour says it will be, i'm moving out of the masalaama list. but it's gotta be good....wonder if danger money need to be included for flying gf's aircraft in the state they're in?

[CI100]

You can not buy true happiness with money.

As for me, I will remain in Massalamaa list (after all I opened that thread) no matter how much money they cough up. I am not a prostitute that will stay in your hotel room after receiving extra 5BD, 50BD, 500BD, 5000BD (THE AMOUNT OF IT DEPENDS ON WHAT CLASS OF PROSTITUTE YOU ARE)

[chrispatrickGA]

After the rumor of salary improvement for GF pilots, there is another one in EY explaning that EY management is just staring at GF: How are they going to try preventing their pilots from joining EY in increasing the salaries...?
Rumor says then that it could be the start of a higher bid at the end of 2007 from EY and....:E should be not only by 200BD...
Anyhow it looks definetely like airlines are going to increase seriously pilots salaries in the Middle East... Qatar is already offering a very nice package and is willing to open a base in Bahrain for the GF guys ready to make the jump!
wait and see, :ok:

[Panama Jack]

After the last set of rumors made their way around back around a few months ago (which left a number of people very disappointed when the facts came out), I think I'll rather just push it out of my mind, stare mindlessly at the clouds as they pass by, and wait and see what happens.

These days, any one of the many juicy Gulf Air rumors, plus a dinar and the presentation of your Gulf Air ID will get you a cup of coffee at Costa's. :hmm:

[ironbutt57]

This one reportedly to be the one put forward by the task force, or at least closer to those figures than the last offering...wait and see..fingers crossed:ok:

[tbaylx]

Might be nice for the guys staying, but it's kinda like closing the barn door after the horse's have left. Wonder where the Dinar's came from, last time they told us the company absolutely dosen't have any more money for package increases.

In any case as previoulsy stated guys are leaving for reasons other than the money at this point. Any package improvememnt designed at stemming the flow out needs to address rostering, staff travel, and of course the current state of the fleet before you're going to keep significant numbers of pilots from leaving.

[NO FD NO SRS]

This is not entirely true. many pilots changed their mind after the first package specially bahraini and the new package will stop few more. our staff travel needs big improvement but changing career because of that is bit exaggeration.

[scanscanscan]

Gulf Air badly needs an efficient cockpit crew welfare officer like they had back in 1975.
This man attended to all the hassle pilots face on their days off trying to administer their Gulf Air admin problems into a partime office system that is closed for nearly three days a week and only open for a few very inefficient hours the rest..if you are lucky and the wind is 40knts and the surface temperature Bahrain is minus five C!
Needless to say this man was never replaced after he resigned to again move Eastwards to Dxb...he attended to everythying properly and proptly and pilots had nothying to worry about regarding houseing/leave tickets/getting amendments etc....he was a God send.

[Trader]

Many of the Bahraini's were not leaving period. They made a lot of noise (can't blame them) about leaving and I know several who said that if GF did not met the competition they would leave. They are still here.

At this point GF is trying to keep its experienced expats, FO's and young Bahraini's (some of who are decising whether GF is a good future career).

As Tbay said - the other issues overwhelm many and corruption in all areas, especially rostering/planning, are still not solved. With the loss of SG and JM rostering will get even worse. To the point, imo, if you are not a connected habibi you will work like a slave with little chance of the plums in the sked.

[tbaylx]

Well i'm leaving primarily because of rostering, and things like staff travel, not a career change, but definitly an employer change, and money isn't on top of my list....and i'm sure there are others just like me. You may keep some people with a pay increase, but certainly not all without addressing the other issues.

[brassplate]

i'm staying for the money if it's any good. after that, they still need a hell of a lot of improvements in other areas. the money is for keeping up with the market's going rates for pilots and putting up with the crap that only the sandpit dishes out admirably well.

[DesertHawk]

"and putting up with the crap that only the sandpit dishes out admirably well. "


not saying that Gf or the gulf carriers are treating everyone well at all but to say they are the only ones PLEASE so nieve. ALL over the world you will find pilots that are unhappy about their conditions pay and treatment some of it is justified some just BS. GF is not the only F****ed up airline that has been mismanaged and ruined employee moral come to think of it it's hard to think of an airline where people are happy...ummm makes you wonder

[brassplate]

let me rephrase that, desertspoon..just for you.
they all dish it out, but gf does it admirably well.

[DesertHawk]

brassplate,
i would not argue with that at all. Just a little worn out by all the over the top negativism around makes u want to jump off a cliff.

[brassplate]

they only needed to treat us as guests in their country, here to work for an honest buck...
but no, they couldn't help themselves. nepotism, unfairness, downright rudeness gets the better of them.
ok, when's this new package supposed to be announced? someone mentioned it's more stalling tactics.

[boeingdriverx]

Gulf Air plans salary increase

MANAMA: Gulf Air will soon announce a salary increase for its employees, it was revealed last night. Company sources told our sister paper Akhbar Al Khaleej that the airline also planned to pay the one per cent unemployment beneifit tax on behalf of its employees. An announcement to this effect will be made in the next few weeks. Sources said the airline's move aimed to keep experienced workers under its wings.

[SubsonicMortal]

MANAMA: Gulf Air will soon announce a salary increase for its employees, it was revealed last night.

They were suppose to announce so today. This coming straight from the HOFO's office.

:confused::confused::confused::ouch:

[Che Guevara]

An announcement to this effect will be made in the next few weeks.

Well only time will tell I guess....

Sources said the airline's move aimed to keep experienced workers under its wings.

Hasn't the horse already bolted?:ugh:

[Mach084]

I fear Mr Naff you cannot afford to wait "a few weeks" to announce any salary increases to "keep experienced workers". In fact to be frank I fear it doesnt really matter.

Lets just do a recap here

Mr Andre Dose arrives and states that the airline is in big trouble but he has the solution (a familiar statement). Cut back the unprofitable routes and streamline the operation. First thing the new management does is announce officially 1500 expats to be sacked, then announce officially they would not be sacked immediately but rather over a period of 10-12 months. Now you announce you wish people to stay and promise a payrise as an incentive.
In the meantime Mr Dose has resigned and the airline is left "headless" on "autopilot" facing the same if not worse problems.

Now let me get this right, you expect me to go to my wife and my two kids and convince them that we should re-think my resignation because you now decided to give us some more money?

Dear Sir with all due respect this management has lost all credibility and frankly there is nothing you could possibly do to convince me otherwise.

Someone once wrote here on Pprune that you finally managed to destroy the last remaining great asset in GF, it's workforce.

I honestly wish you the best of luck, not for your sake but for all my colleagues remaining.

Mach
A somewhat "experienced worker"

[Sal-e]

Feeling of deja vu.:bored:
Didn't this feeling of uncertainty happen already? Why is it here again?:confused:
Is this a bad dream?:suspect:
I must be stuck in the twilight zone (echoes)..twilight zone,...twilight zone,...twilight zone!!!:uhoh:
Someone, please wake me up from this nightmare.:zzz:

OR

Horse with those funny eye patches....totally oblivious to the surrounding turmoil....all ahead full.....step by step...clop, clop, clop, clop.
Ahhhhh.....ignorance is bliss!!!!:)
I'm the latter. I was already staying with or without the payrise.

[SubsonicMortal]

I think somebody from upper managment has to put attendance to the following conference in top priority second to the "new package".


Crew Management Conference (http://crew07.hcuk.net/home.asp?m_pid=0&m_nid=21404)


Quote from website:
Why should you be there? - The focus of the entire conference is on pilots, managing them and enabling them to perform at their best from both the airline's and passenger's point of view. Commercial air transport worldwide is growing so fast that a shortage of quality pilots - especially captains - is becoming a reality for many regions, and Europe cannot consider itself immune.

[brassplate]

haha is that why a/hofo is going to be away? he's put chris r (vpt) in his position. what a chicken sh!t. can't be good numbers if he's going to absent for the much anticipated announcement (second time around).

[jimmyhagendas]

Looks like we have to wait another few days for the big one.
This is the latest from Hello.

In this weeks meeting with the Executive Committee of the board, I am looking forward to approvals on salary adjustments for pilots and cabin crew. At the same time we have also started working on pay adjustments for the rest of the Gulf Air employees.

[airpilot_A3xx]

Brassplate, according to the Aug published roster, A/HOFO is on leave from AUG 05th till next month and Not the 12th!!!!! try somthing else mate :bored:

[scanscanscan]

Nice to see he got his leave in the August hot month when others usually cannot get theirs due pilot shortage.
Still he can use the time to look for another job and network with his departed mate...incidently what was the pay off? I suspect three years salery and a gagging clause.

[Propellor]

airpilot_A3xx
You obviously are too naive to believe that the published rosters are followed! I suggest that you read the pdf file in your mail, dated 12 Aug, from Hamida before punching the keyboard with trash.

[brassplate]

yeah airport3xxx%#%#&#,
that was a rather naive statement....which leads me to conclude that just maybe, you're cr or a/hofo himself....better study up your previous posts!! quick, start deleting!!

[Propellor]

Mach 084,

That was a well written post, and I compliment as well as complement your thoughts.

The money seems to be too little and too late! The much awaited package on Sunday came as a 1 % increment - a refund of the unemployment insurance!!!

Extrapolating from their previous announcements, I would expect an increase in the September, to be effective somewhere in January! If BN wants to send the package to the board for approval next week, then why did he not do it the last week, instead of bragging about it in his newsletter? His intentions are suspect.

GF management will reap the seeds of their procrastination from October when they will have flights cancelled for want of crews. Even now, there are hardly any standbys, and flights get held up for want of a pilot every other day.

The company is running like a headless chicken, which is not just metaphorical - the CEO, VPO/ HOFO and the MFD are 'Acting'; there is no HOGO, HODD, MFS and MOC; the Manager Rostering and Crew Control, CP340, MFOQA and HOFSQA are in their notice period and have no interest left in the company, and some of the remaining managers are on leave for the summer. (While some of the positions will be made obsolete in the new organization system, the plan remains to be seen even after four months of its proposal.)

The woes of the airline are being reflected in the attitude of the staff: one can notice the low morale and the pessimism across the employees, and an increase in the inter-personal skirmishes.

Taking an airplane is a pain – the APU’s seldom work, the Ground Air Conditioning is most inefficient, Engineers are seldom available to fix the airplanes and BAS cannot send GF flights on time!

Try complaining - to whom will you write or phone? Or just crib on PPRUNE?

[airpilot_A3xx]

Possypellor, Assplate, I get my leave in AUG, I Fly any block I want and Hamida writes for me. I'm not A/HOFO... I AM THE HOFO...:} keep it on the green boys while i'm off to somewhere cool and please no responds.. Now, back to our topic shall we!!! thanks:cool:

[ironbutt57]

Nice to see someone who claims to be HOFO treats his colleagues with such high regard!!!!!

[yoohoo748]

Does anybody have any printed/photographed info that Bjorn was presenting to the pilots when he was showing the new "Package" in the sim building? Perhaps a copy of the PP presentation? PM me if you do.
Thanks in advance.:ok:

[ironbutt57]

Dont think that one resembles what is being presented to the executive board..guess w'll find out here relatively soon:ok:

[tbaylx]

It's kinda a shame that it took 100+ pilots resigning before they came up with a decent package...maybe if they had done that in Jan right away instead of threatening 1500 layoffs, then alot of us might have considered staying.

[ironbutt57]

It's not out yet....

[brassplate]

airpilot_369,
wrong again, you're just being silly.
why do you persist in mentioning names? very immature and irresponsible.

[ironbutt57]

Hey is that you Ferooz??? Head Of Food Operations at the DOH sim bldg??:}

[NO FD NO SRS]

Hey Fairooz... Hope ur doing ok and I hope you got some of your money back from cheap and stingy pilots who opened food accounts with you but never paid you back.

[Hummingbird]

Autopilot A3xx, If you are really the HOFO you should be ashamed of saying that you are management, because it only shows that you are total dumb a**s as we can see by the company's situation. GF is like the way it is because of incompetent and corrupt management...:uhoh:

[6_DoF]

Bring back Fairooz better than the over priced rubish BAS provide in the new Simulator building.

[ironbutt57]

Hear-hear!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

[jimmyhagendas]

Yee those chicken burgers where quite tasty.

[Propellor]

Ferooz, in Doha! The only one happy to see the pilots! How he mothered us with all our whims and fancies! He knew everyone's culinary preferences, the timings of the simulators and the timings of individual instructors, and kept looking after all of us with a smile!

Apparently, the last VPO did not want the Canteen caterer to be supplying at the new Sim center, and that is why we landed up with the over priced and under-stocked counter that we have there.

If the normal canteen caterer were (or is) given the contract, we could have a decent canteen running 24 hours a day, at reasonable prices, and he could be restricted from serving curries etc. to prevent to the odours. After all, these guys serve snacks etc. on the floors of the pink palace all day.

[Not too small]

Others are talking about A380 and new A320 or B737 and your talking about maassalama list hoping for new humiliation package.
Hope things will improve inshalla :ugh: :mad:

[scanscanscan]

And talking about food quality in the Sim....it is all about priorities!

[Gs mini]

i don't think it's coming at all

[jimmyhagendas]

:confused: Are we to get an increased package or what ?

[brassplate]

heard it's not coming out til novembers paypacket.

[jimmyhagendas]

Then its to late.

Masalama.

[shopsywhopsy]

Fairooz even could even sell you a bank DVD if needed......:eek:

[Chuck Y]

We can stop holding our breaths since the package is supposed to be out tomorrow. Let's see if it's worth the wait?

[brassplate]

as in the 19th or 20th? i'm kinda turning blue holding my breath. any case, heard it still won't be til nov paycheque.

[vomit comet]

bp u can breath now! NO PACKAGE!!!! they r not even discussing it! looks like they dont give a rats ass!:{

[LOC STAR]

So now what is final, there will be a new package or not??????????????:confused:

[jumpdrive]

how much is an A320 1st officer making in GF
ins US dollars?
im figuring out numbers to compare it with other job offers i have
thanks

[Sal-e]

Payrise for the gingerbeers first I read somewhere.
Rumours of a pilots payrise will cause others who had resigned to reconsider withdrawing their resignations. That number will probably determine what the payrise will be like. If too many withdraw their resignations, a teeny weeny payrise will make them reconsider resigning for good. If not enough come back, then maybe a bigger payrise. I am speculating but what else can we do to try and see where our company is going? Seems like going around in circles though. And I am getting a little flustered.
Meanwhile, EY talking about a 'how to pay off your GF bond' scheme which they will happily facilitate.
But I will follow the wise advice of a prominent ppruner....just turn up to work, carry on what we do normally.

[shopsywhopsy]

Gee Sal-e thought you were on vacation

[Sal-e]

I am and so enjoying it thanks.
Just a little anxious at what I'll be coming back to in a couple of weeks. Don't like surprises the likes that took one of my colleagues when she came back from leave....felt just like joining a new company was the comment I recall. Such was the change in GF!!
I'm conditioning myself I guess.

[Ibn Kalb]

I think the convention on these fora is not to mention people's full hames but use only initials

[ironbutt57]

Although I would tend to agree, as long as it is in a positive note i cannot see the problem, it's when it turns into a slagfest is the problem yes??? Big showing for the roadshow??

[brassplate]

i tend to disagree on that one when senior management is involved. when one reaches a certain status with a company, they should be able to cop some flak as well as good criticisms in this forum because their decisions affect us directly.

[ironbutt57]

Ok.. I suppose.. after you have of course given them the benefit of the doubt by approaching them through proper channels, voicing your displeasure/concerns..just had to do that yesterday..sure I will do it again...

[brassplate]

discussions on this forums regarding individual management types may be for research purposes before committing to approaching them and making a fool out of yourself.

[Che Guevara]

So what's the news folks....it's after 6 by my watch....
(waiting patiently as contemplates his future);)
tick tick tick

[jackbauer]

50% incr for Capt and 70% for FO's

[ironbutt57]

yup it's very competitive now...:ok::ok::ok:

[chrispatrickGA]

Jack we are talking about increasement of salary not about people leaving the company....:E:E:E

[CI100]

:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:):):):}:}:}:}:}

chrispatrickGA well said buddy, well said....

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Neultin]

OK, so does anyone have the details of the new package. I was not able to attent the meeting, but have heard that it is good. Can anyone confirm with numbers?

[B7,etc]

Hi all,
Just attended the meeting.
CPT new basic = 3000 + 60x "per year of service" quote:"introduction of seniority system"
This is topped @ 4200
Married housing allowances 700
Single 600
Schooling secondary up to 2500
Pay per block hours 6

Now the question is ...what is the "seniority system"?

So if a guy has been there for 20 years as a FO then becomes a CPT..how is his seniority calculated?

have fun,guys!

[ironbutt57]

His seniority, or his monthly time in seat 60BD?? the 60 BD is time in position, .. his seniority for bidding leave, roster etc...etc remains to be seen..hopefully for that person it's based on his time in service with GF as a productive flt deck crewmember eg: flt eng, f.o. capt, so he would be able to "outbid" say a 10yr DEC...as it should be

[MAKAVELI320]

dear chrispatrickGA the topic is pay rise not people resigning so read the title correctly plus what B7,etc says is what i heard good 4 all of us yahoo:ok::ok::ok::ugh:

[NO FD NO SRS]

With the new package Gulfair can do some road shows at Qatar,Etihad and Emirites door steps.

[ironbutt57]

Ok gentleman...so now...we have a job to do...our colleague Capt Gammage and his family are in need of our support..I have sent an E-mail to our "acting CEO" ( and a pretty good act at that!) requesting GF's assistance in supporting Capt Gammage and his family, as they see fit...so let us rise to the occasion shall we gentleman??? Let us share our new found fortune with those who have toiled away for many years and served GF with the highest level of professionalism...and made it possible for us to be here..shall we??? The "GET RAD HOME" endeavour is our new challenge..."together we can do it"...:ok::ok:

[Sal-e]

Now that's an occassion that caption is suitable for!!:D

[bus787]

This should be Heralded as the Start of New ERA .
MAnagment and Govt.should be enoucraged to continue their work.
The FAlcon will proudly continue Flying (Airbuses) inxallah.
Its now time to show the managment that we CARE and help in improving their effort .WELL DONE all this is the way things are done in an Oil booming economy.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!:ok::D

[B7,etc]

Ok,
@ the bottom of the hand out that was given ystrdy @ the meeting it says " this will not apply to those who have already given their resignation"

It was also claimed that this package would not come into effect before October or November....

Now, let's not forget that this is not a "present", nor is it an incentive. GF is just doing here the strict minimum towards us in an effort to match competition. It is a good move & we all appreciate it. But the strategy must be clearly highlighted. They had NO choice...Otherwise the very operation itself would have been @ stake.

Let's hope the effort will go on and that the "bored" wake up and approve cash release to renew our equipment. This is also an absolute must.

[MAKAVELI320]

B7,etc well said buddy :D:ok:

[tbaylx]

Yup don't forget that this wouldn't have happened if all of us hadn't resigned. The guys who are leaving are the catalyst for this rather dramatic change, hope the guys that stay enjoy the benefits.

[a400]

Suggestion to GF management

All pilots who cancel their resignation should be placed at a weary bottom of seniority list for upgrade or fleet transfer.:{
Just as appreciation to pilots who stick with GF at bed times.:ok:
This move would be nice.:ok::D

[a400]

New package for GF pilots

FO
Base Salery - 2100
per year of service - 50
Housing
single- 550
married - 650
Schooling
prim - 1500
sec - 2500
block hour - 6

CAPT
Base Salery - 3000
per year of service - 60
Housing
single - 600
married - 700
Schooling
prim - 1500
sec - 2500
Block hour - 6

All in BD

Note:
Increase shall not apply to pilots being acceoted for VRS or resigining within 6 month after announcement.
All components not mentioned remain at the current level.

[Trader]

Re the comment - time now to show management we care. Most of us have ALWAYS cared!!!!! Most are professionals and, despite how GF treated them, they always worked hard and did the best they could. Those of us that are leaving are leaving NOT because they have no loyalty but precisly because they DO - to their family!

My decision to leave was not due to the money but due to what I perceive to be a bleak or unsure future. The BOD and the government have been incredibly inconsistant in how they run and handle the airline and that makes it difficult to predict how they will operate going forward.

I would LOVE to stay and work with the new managment but the fact is I do NOT trust the BOD or government and to stay presents me with a very real risk that in a year or two or five things will fall apart. The opportunities are available in the market NOW and may not be there later on.

Of course seniority always plays a significant role in our lives so I do not have the luxury of simply waiting and seeing.

So please do not mistake leaving with a lack of loyalty - it is not even close to being accurate!!!

Secondly, the new package is EXCELLENT and, for those staying, is well deserved. But TBAY - it is not better than the EK or EY packages. Lets look at them:

1. GF and EK basic pay or pretty much identical. GF pays 6bd per flight hour and EK 4.5.

2. Housing - GF pays 600-650 depending on status. My house which I have had for 2 years is 610BD/month and it is not close to be called fancy!. Comfortable and livable - yes. That rent will be going up 60BD this year and I am sure in most years. The house 2 doors down just rented for 900 BD - same as ours. So for the new joiners or the guy who wants or has to move he will be paying out of pocket again!! EK puts you up in fantastic housing with all utilities paid.

3. Schooling - GF doesn't even compare to EK. But then not an issue if you don't have kids.

4. Retirment - GF idemnity is just not up to par. EK puts 12% of your pay (15% after 5 years) into a retirment fund that is INVESTED and grows over time. GF can't come close.

5. Fleet - no need to even try to compare.

6. Upgrade - who knows at GF. But methinks it will be a while.

7. Future - as I said above GF is so unstable at the moment that things change day by day.

8. Rostering - still controlled by the mafia and will be for the forseeable future.

9. Mafia - make no mistake - there is a group of people with good connections who will not sit back and watch 'their' airline be run by others. This is one issue that has me very concerned!!



In any case - the new package is a GIANT step forward!!!!!! I am sure there are many smiling faces around at the moment (can't see since I am on leave) and that is welcome considering how low moral has been lately. IT IS WELL DESERVED by all the crew.

Finally, if this new management can hold out then things will improve dramatically at GF. BN in doing an excellent job and watch how things speed up now that he has a VPO in position.

[Stratosphere6000]

Once again a very good post from you trader. I thought us pilots were smarter than that. Unfortunately a lot of the guys just look at the numbers and orgasm. EK, QR n EY offer more than just the numbers. But hey if it makes some happy then no ones pointing fingers. Lets just look at the big picture. As trader said 3,4,5 10yrs down the road.

[HerInDoor's]

On behalf of all the wee Gulf Air wife’s/partners and I think I speak for the majority - I’m doing a little dance!:p Not so that I can go out and buy more shoes but because having to listen to all the negativity was becoming unbearable and all of a sudden my life seems a damn sight brighter!

Hopefully, gone are the days of having to give the old man a pep talk before he walks out the door and here’s to looking forward to him coming home with a spring in his step (keep the lewd comments to your selves!) rather than more rumored bad news.

The worse thing about the last couple of years for us has been the constant uncertainty and I for one am relived and glad for you all that at least one of the elements that has caused the distress has been eliminated :ok:. Roll on the next dilema, I look forward to a change of topic.

So, congratulations - it has been a long time coming.

Excuse me for invading your webspace, it won’t happen again and oh:oh: I lied about the shoes!:E

[Mephistopheles]

Conratulations to those who are staying & all the best for those who are moving on. Let's not let this get into an arguement between the two sides since we all want the same things out of an employer.

[Hummingbird]

Come on a400, the reason for lots resignations was that people were not happy with GF’s package so they were looking for something better for them and their families. The management came with this package for not only avoid more resignations but to attract back those who resigned. The majority of the guys that did not leave, either were not called for interview in another airline, or did not pass the exam, or because they were too lazy to try another job. There is NO such a thing of being loyal to a job that is collapsing when you can find next door something better and secure. The management got what they wanted;
1- Some of the pilots that had already resigned decided to stay because now it looks better than it was when they put their resignations in order to have a better life.
2- Avoided further resignations.
Maybe you are one of the lazy ones…

[point8four]

Trader - Yes and No on certain points
1)Basic pretty much the same - EK 3.5 per block hour according to latest package handout at Movenpick. GF also 1.5 per hour TAFB.
2)Housing agreed.
3)Schooling apples with apples? British School Bahrain 1800/yr. Dxb British School 2800++. 100% of 1600, 90% of the rest up to 3200. Not enough to separate them, assuming you can get your kid into a decent school in Dxb.
4)Provident- yes 12% from the company, but 5% comes off your basic too so subtract 106 from your basic.
5)Fleet - agreed
6) Upgrade- agreed
7)Future-anything could happen (9/11?)
8+9)Rostering and Mafia are synonymous- if you think there is no mafia at EK, a rude awaking master caution just illuminated on the upper ecam.
By my calculation, based on an 80 hour month at both carriers and the GF guy paying 900bd rent out of the rear pocket, GF guy comes out with about 400bd more than the EK guy. (But not taking into account his provident or retirement plan-the only major plus I see. So are they so far apart?)
But then again its not about the money anymore is it? Its about another 30 years in the Gulf hopefully 27 of those in the left seat of a shiny 777 or variant by future design.....

[Che Guevara]

The majority of the guys that did not leave, either were not called for interview in another airline, or did not pass the exam, or because they were too lazy to try another job.

Mr. Hummingbird
I find your comments offensive, direspectful and rude.
I am one of those pilots who does not want to leave Gulf Air. I can assure you that I am not too lazy to apply for another job, neither am I concerned about passing an exam or an interview. Finally I am not stupid; I am very aware of what is going on around me, but like others we don't need to rush over to another airline. If the time comes when we decide to go, then perhaps we will, and we will go as DECs, so then you will have something else to whine about.
I have nothing against anybody that wants to leave, it's a free world and I wish them all the best, however to insult the very people that gave you a job when you had none, trained you , worked with you etc. I just find very 'rich'.
Good luck my friend and don't let the door hit you on the way out.:D

[Mephistopheles]

Che Guevara, I totally agree with you cos according to Hummingbird then whoever remains in GF is a lazy good for nothing idiot?
Hummingbird, plenty of us have looked at the other carriers in the region of for 1 reason or another we have not moved (yet?) but that does not mean we are lazy or stupid. For your info I was offered direct entry into both Ek & Ey but for the time being I will remain here for my own reasons.
So when can we throw your leaving party cos I will be the first to buy you a farewell drink?

[Stratosphere6000]

Mr Che n Metamorphis, if you read correctly he said MAJORITY not EVERY. Maybe you two are the rocket scientists of the pilot community but its a fact. A lot of guys remain with GF because options are limited. I know a lot of guys who criticise the likes of EK, EY and QR only to find out that they were the same ones who didn't pass interviews. If you're happy here be. The guys who are going will be better off in the long run. I repeat for the 100th time especially the young F/O's....

[Mephistopheles]

Stratosphere6000 guess you've been chugging down way too much ozone way up there where you are. So according to you & Mr Hummer that means that a "MAJORITY" of the pilots left in GF are sub-standard operators, that's strange since rumours are that EY are coming to Bah soon-guess they must be coming for a holiday:)

[6000PIC]

Congratulations on the improved and long overdue terms and conditions. No doubt all of you deserve it. Cheers.

[DukePhantom]

This may not matter to most of you guys but what about the new recruits who will soon join GF as Second Officers? what are the changes for them, if any?

Thanks

[fractional]

The Arabian Business On Line (by Safura Rahimi) reported the following yesterday, Thursday, 23 August 2007:
Gulf Air is to offer its cockpit and cabin crew significant pay rises in a bid to stem the number of employees quitting the troubled airline.
Bahrain's national carrier on Wednesday approved a new compensation package, which the company said met market standards, without going into further detail.
However, sources at the airline said it was offering a pay rise of up to 50% for flight attendants, up to 90% for senior flight attendants, up 70% for first officers, up to 50% for pilots, reported Bahraini newspaper Gulf News Daily.
Earlier this month, flight attendants handed a 500-signature petition demanding a 30% pay rise and increased allowances.
With the new packages, a captain's a basic monthly salary now stands at 3,000 Bahraini dinars ($8,000), a first officer's at 2,100 dinars ($5,600), a cabin service manager's at 600 dinars ($1,600), and a flight attendant's at 340 dinars ($900), sources confirmed to ArabianBusinesss.com.
The improved wage offering follows the resignation of up to 150 of Gulf Air's pilots and first officers since April, according to the newspaper.
In April Gulf Air announced it was to restructure its operations in a bid to curb losses of $1 million a day. The plan includes destination, fleet and employee cutbacks.
The airline said the new package also includes a significant increase to housing and schooling allowances for pilots.
It has also agreed to bear the cost of a 1% salary tax the Bahrain government introduced earlier this year to fund a national unemployment benefit scheme.
News of dissatisfaction among staff is just the latest in a string of problems to hit the airline.
At the end of last month chief executive Andre Dose quit the airline after just four months in charge after reportedly clashing with the board.
Gulf Air has appointed Björn Näf as Dose's temporary replacement and is still looking to appoint a permanent successor.
The airline is currently the subject of a criminal investigation by police over alleged financial irregularities and UK forensic auditor Kroll has also been appointed to examine the airline’s books as part of a separate government inquiry into its poor financial performance.

[Laker]

guys i don't get it. People are saying this new package is excellent but if you compare it to any other wealthy country it seems woefully inadequete. An Air France A 330 captain makes BD 10,000/month, a widebody capt in the US still makes about BD 6,000 month after a 50% paycut, and I imagine Cathay pilots are still up there. Is there anything I'm missing? Not trying to sound like an as# I'm just trying to figure out how they can attract qualified pilots when they are undercutting the going rate in the world market? Are there side benefits I'm missing? I've been contemplating leaving a us major airline to fly out in the middle east but all the rumors out west are that the pay and bennies are great but maybe I'm missing something...

[mogley]

Laker,
The cash side of the package is the same as Ek except housing & school fees which are both more expensive in Dxb. Also you have to remember we don't pay tax.

[tbaylx]

You're missing the tax equation. That all goes into your pocket at the end of the day. That and the fact that gas is dirt cheap, car insurance cheap, boats cheap etc etc. Sure groceries are a bit more expensive but overall your cost of living is lower that NA and you don't pay any tax. In the end you'd have to make about double back home to be competitive

[Desert Diner]

guys i don't get it. People are saying this new package is excellent but if you compare it to any other wealthy country it seems woefully inadequete.

Laker,

They are not trying to recruit the examples you have mentioned. It is unfortunate but the airlines out here are looking for the guys that aren't getting those salaries and don't expect to reach them for years or have been surplused.

Think vulture and it may make a little more sense.

[Desert Diner]

You're missing the tax equation. That all goes into your pocket at the end of the day. That and the fact that gas is dirt cheap, car insurance cheap, boats cheap etc etc. Sure groceries are a bit more expensive but overall your cost of living is lower that NA and you don't pay any tax. In the end you'd have to make about double back home to be competitive

That's the reason we don't go back. Not sure if it's enough anymore to come out here from a relatively secure/well paid job at home though.

[jackbauer]

If this package did anything to address the major trouble the airline is in it might be worth something. Fact is GF is in the crapper up to it's neck and has somehow gone from losing $1000000 a day a threat of 1500 job cuts and a 25% fleet reduction, to a 70% pay rise!!! It's not rocket science to figure out somebody is either lying to us or digging a deeper hole for the airline. Either way it's bad news and I for one do not want to be part of their experiment. If you have a job offer elsewhere take it and enjoy watching the fun and games from afar. Mr Naff is not to be trusted and is still contradicting himself with every communication to crew. It's one lie after another. For those who decide to stay, accept the increase as danger money.

[boeingdriverx]

Stop this crap.

An Air France 'Commandant de Bord' (Captain) will get a maximum of 15000€ per month which is equivalent to approx. 7-8000 BHD

An Air France 'Officier Pilote de Ligne' (FO) will get a maximum of 8000€ per month which is equivalent to approx. 4-5000 BHD

So the GF new package is competitive, especially if you don't forget that Bahrain is way cheaper than Paris, Dubai or Hong Kong.

BD

[Mach084]

I strongly second the above statement (jack's). Naf has not addressed the most serious concerns we had, namely where this airline is going, which prompted us to look for employment elsewhere.

Effectively all he has done here is put the airline in a worse financial situation than before.

If I were a contract pilot I would be elated but I'm a career man with a family and I dont trust this "management" as far as I can throw them.

[bus787]

GOOD LUCK allof you looking for jobs elsewhere.
Hope u allfind better places and your career flourishes.
mentioning air France and all other majors they are no go items .
Try get into them you will see that Gf startning salaries are bette

[ACMS]

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Well done boys and girls of Gulf Air, well deserved. A pity it took the loss of a lot of your fellow Pilot's to force the company into paying more.

Laker:--- At Cx we do get payed more..........BUT I pay tax here, and the cost of living is way way more than Bahrain.
I always buy meat from the Bahrain mall to bring back to HK, it's about half the price of HK. ( as just one example )

cheers

[brassplate]

i'm all for 'state of the aircrafts' danger money. bit of adventure wadaya say eh? that's probably the only real 'danger' we face at gf. hopefully, nothing too damaging will eventuate.
the fact that i made that statement should surely wake management up that it is bordering on a real a present danger.
so yeah, i'll stay for the bucks. but it doesn't alleviate them of their responsibility to make the fleet safe.

[brassplate]

there are safer aircrafts out there and there are FAR safer aircrafts out there. we ain't either.
.....and i like the way you're detracting away from the issue. that is another issue. must you really know?

[brassplate]

i believe i've answered your question.
the other question. why do i fly them? i do when i feel they're safe enough, and i don't when i'm not comfortable. i'm obligated contractually to do that to the best of my professional ability and i hope you are too.
my questions to you are:
1. are you happy with the state of the aircrafts?
2. do you think they can do more to improve the serviceability of the aircrafts?
3. why the defensive stance with GF's aging fleet? are you happy to see one fall apart inflight before declaring them unsafe? have you seen write-ups such as moderate to severe airframe vibrations whose only response from engineering for the last 8 months was 'report further'?
do tell me you are supremely confident of the integrity of our engineering department, especially after the rusty 767 debarcle!!! do tell me there hasn't been any coverups regarding that mess!

it's funny in GF when someone raises a flag or alarm, that person becomes the target and not the issue he raised that flag for. the manner in which you posted convinced me that you are part of management in some capacity.

[Mach084]

The aircraft as such are safe, otherwise they would be grounded but I think what brassplate is saying is that in the state they are in they give the crew a certain level of stress. Stress is a frame of mind that certainly does not promote safety.

[Mach084]

Anyone notice recently how quiet that Kooheji character has gone..........wonder if someone told him to shut :oh: his tr@p finally because every time he opens it he causes more resignations

[brassplate]

nope, not angry. indifferent.
how do you want to quantify this then?
our fleet is safer than the average african nations old generation fleet, but not safer than one straight out of the factory OR
on a scale of one to 10, the average would get a 4 from me OR etc etc...

make a suggestion on how to discuss this because out of the numerous issues at GF, this (not pay) should have been the most pressing!!!

[Desert Diner]

I hope they are safe.

One thing for shure though is they certainly need to be cleaned up some more in the cabins.

[Trader]

I agree Touk - but you have to take housing out since at least in the US you can buy a home and pay it off. In fact that is more valuable than paying rent in BAH. Yes you can buy a house in BAH but they are overpriced, the interest is ridiculous and the quality poor. Never mind the region of the world it is in an the inherant risk with that.

[Che Guevara]

Funny that our wives are only worth BD42.. still....mine not impressed;)

[Mach084]

Che mate, I keep reminding mine that if someone gives me BD43 for her he can have her.:E

[Laker]

Stop this crap.
An Air France 'Commandant de Bord' (Captain) will get a maximum of 15000€ per month which is equivalent to approx. 7-8000 BHD
An Air France 'Officier Pilote de Ligne' (FO) will get a maximum of 8000€ per month which is equivalent to approx. 4-5000 BHD
So the GF new package is competitive, especially if you don't forget that Bahrain is way cheaper than Paris, Dubai or Hong Kong.
BD
BD,
Hey I'm not trying to spread lies here. I just had lunch with an Air France captain who has been a good family friend for the last 15 years or so. We were comparing salaries as I'm a Us Airways A320 FO and he told me that he makes 20,000 Euros per month flying 65-80 hours as an A330/340 Captain. Who knows maybe he lied...? I doubt it. He's also an instructor so maybe his instructor status gives him an extra 5,000 Euros. I don't know?
Congratulations on the pay raise everyone! A move in the right direction. Maybe it will catch on in the US where our pay has been stagnating for years...

[DukePhantom]

Gentlemen,

could anyone please advice me whether there are any increments for second officers? if so please enlighten me.

Cheers, again

[bird dog]

I agree with JB. BN already proved he doesnt deserve to be trusted. He says things that are not true and thats why he didnt want to allow anyone to question him in the "pay rise announcement" meeting. For example: How GF will upgrade 30 to 40 FOs per year based on retiring CPs if the retirement age has been increased and NOBODY wil reach that age in the next 2 years? Why they didnt write in the new pay scales paper when we will be getting the "promised" salary? He said it would be in Nov, back dated. The question is: Will BN be here in Nov? Even if he will,wont he change his mind(remember the 767/320 bond issue?).If they were serious why not write it down, so we can claim it in the future? I bet he is only buying time and we will only see this new package in 2008 and not backdated. Hope I am wrong.

P.S. - Sorry for any spelling or grammar error, please dont change the topic if I made any mistake.

[Desert_Storm]

Guess you are totally right bird dog. Really think BN is just buying time and nothing else. 1st of all, really doubt GF has the money to make such an increase and 2nd of all, if they really have the capacity to do this, why to wait until november to make it effective????????
I believe they want to make us stay a little bit longer, wait until EY, EK and QR fill their opening positions and then, come out with some kind of big fat lie (as always) and what is gonna happen then, all of us who naively decided to stay and believe all their crap will find out that good jobs are no longer available. Anyway, just waiting for the green light in Etihad and I'm gone without hesitation. Good luck dudes!

[Sal-e]

Desert storm and bird dog,
what is it with you guys? Can't you let the guy prove himself first? Sure he has made a couple of mistakes which had little consequence but you're pre-judging him already.
Only mafia types will be out to get him, the ones who stand to lose something.

[jackbauer]

Sorry Sal-e but I have to pick you up on what you said here...Sure he has made a couple of mistakes which had little consequence You must have a very short memory old chap. Naf is the one who threatened the crew with lay offs in the first place. He quite clearly stated that he had a list of over 200 pilots who were un-productive and would be the first to go!! There after started the EXODUS. If 170 resignations is not a serious consequence then I don't know what is, perhaps you can tell us?

[SV4L]

hi all

for your infos laker i am french and i know the salary for AF .

20000 eur even for a TRE i don t think so , 15000 0r 17000 for 90 hours may be but to be TRE 340 at least this guy works for 15 to 20 years for AF ,
and frenchs never speak after income taxes so net in his pocket should be around 9000 to 10000 depending his marital status and childrens but the good part is on top of that a pension scheme and a real health care.


just my 2 cts for comparing the packages.

cheers:ok:

[boeingdriverx]

Laker,

you wrote first that an AF Captain must be making around 20000 BHD = approx. 40000 euros !!!!

that's why I wanted to correct you! no offence.

but 20000 euros is possible for the older guys I agree. since they introduce the new payscale a normal line captain will be doing around max 15000 euros nowadays...

BD

[Sal-e]

jackbauer,

Further resignations will be stemmed after the new raise wouldn't you think? Many more resignations will be withdrawn. So what consequence are you talking about? The raise we just recieved? We will also achieve the required pilot numbers to keep our birds in the air.

The likes of you will never be satisfied with whoever is up there. I think any amount of effort by anyone to try and improve the company will be stomped on by you who think know it all.

[jackbauer]

Hold your horses there a moment. You said that BN had made some mistakes with no serious consequences. All I did was point out that the whole mess with pilots resigning is a direct result of one of his many mistakes. Are you not happy being told the truth? Do you really believe Gf will order new aircraft in the near future, or there are really only 60 resignations or there will be 40 upgrades a year in a shrinking airline? He told me to my face that upgrades were not in the plan for the foreseeable future. That was only 6 weeks ago, so whats changed in the interim? If you do believe all this then I can also tell you the one about the 3 bears. Thats another fairytale. Since you are less than a year in GF I will put your innocence down to lack of experience in this company. You are a classic example of the kind of person who has to move on from GF, there is no future for a low timer or low seniority pilot anymore.

[Sal-e]

You've gone off-topic from the original issue...the so called 'consequences' of BN's doing. Lets look at the RESULTS of 'his' doing.
1. Plans to profitise GF...routes cancelled...rescheduling...slight contraction fo airline...general strengthening and consolidating.
2. Pilots resign with good reasons...mainly due money and lack of progression.
3. Pay raised twice.
4. Some pilots cancel resignation, some don't...about the right numbers left.
5. Progression OBVIOUSLY stalls as a result of all of the above (you can use commonsense on that one).
So where did I go wrong that you are so happy to crucify BN over? And what could you have done better with the above points from a business point of view?
And no, I'm no low-timer, unless you call 7800 low. And they're nearly all heavies too. I am here to stay at least for a while because the money was good and had gotten a whole lot better.
You are right about one thing. GF is not the right place for low seniority/hours guys unless you're young and have time on your side to wait a while for command (which I have). But this wasn't part of my discussion.
I wonder then, why you have stayed this long with the company? I intend on leaving when my bond period is over and things don't improve. Don't you have a home where you will complain far less? I know I do when the shiez hits the fan. You sound like you don't have too many options outside the sandpit.

[Bombay HF]

"Slight" contraction of the airline? Been on the Kava have we?;)

[Sal-e]

Yea too much I'm afraid. Starting to lose some cells!!:\
Ok slight understatement re the 76 fleet.

[jackbauer]

Starting to lose some cells I think it's more than some cells mate! You believe in fairies too I presume.

[Sal-e]

Aha, and you must be one of them. Coz you're still here aren't you.

[tbaylx]

From a business point of view naf probably did what he had to, and likely what was right.

From an employee morale point of view it's been a disaster. You don't come into a new company as a CEO/COO and before getting the pulse of the employees make broad sweeping statements about the poor health of the airline, 1/3 of the fleet is going to be retired and if you still want a job you have to sign a 3 year 23K BD bond, no wait...no bond..no wait..ok 2 years, threaten mass expat layoffs and give a token raise saying how much we appreciate you all while still paying 60% of your next door neighbor airlines. Not unless you want a large percentage of your employees to quit, in which case they did a brilliant job.

I don't have a management background and i guarantee i could have handled the employee morale situation a lot better than that. Granted the board didn't help matters either, btu as a senior manager it's your job to coordinate with the board before conflicting statements go out. With all the high priced consultants it would have likely been alot cheaper to hire a PR/HR consultant as well before making any of those statements.

As for the business end of things, only time will tell.

[jackbauer]

Sorry to dissapoint Sal but I am just doing my notice like 170 others. Voting with my feet. Suggest you do the same as soon as you can afford to.

[Desert_Storm]

Sal_e!
Sorry to dissapoint you again mate, but as far as I know, only 4 of the 153 guys who put their resignation have withdrawn it. On the other hand, guess you'll hit the ground hard pretty soon dude. You talk about 2 payrises which so far, haven't happened but only the 200 B.D right? The other payrise is still to come and that, if they do it; again, let me tell you that seriously doubt that GF has the money or the capacity to make such an increase but perhaps, you can clarify us why then, GF will wait until november or december to make the increase????????? If you know it, please let me know since I'm very curious about this. Cheers! :E

[Albergineman]

Well done Jackbauer you are right, unbelievers like you and bird dog should go anyway while there are positions available.
Hopefully the Skunkworks gang that one day in the short past ruled GF do a good job where most of the GF pilots are moving to. What the past managers did for GF? They removed the second full annual leave ticket and gave us the split leave ticket instead, three percent salary adjustment every year for us, a lot of advertisement, renewing of the first and business class on the A330 and some A340 opening unprofitable destinations (despite I loved some of them...) and not managing our collapsing fleet, maintenance, ground services, just to mention some. And even worst, they never talked about the real GF financial situation unless stating that everything was on green.
Judge now if BN and his crew are lying or not is too early, if they had announced what they announced some days ago when they started with GF, likely you would not believe on them, but they did now and many guys are relying on him, those like me (I did not resigned) and the others that are re-evaluating their decisions and staying (FORDEC, do you remember? I believe you and bird dog did the same).
Nothing has changed so much in my almost four years here like the last five months. These things are happening because board members gave to BN a go with his plans to make GF a decent airline.
Regarding to upgrades he was clear stating that if the things happen like they are predicting they could afford 30 to 40 upgrades in the next 12 months, but as you know in aviation twelve months is a quite long time.
Anyway, new fleet will come in due time and near future can be five years if you have a ten years plan and I am sure they are aware they can not work with the actual fleet but it will take time.
I believe in BN and he and GF has my commitment and as he said at the last meeting "... there are people that like GF and like Bahrain...".
The decision to not give us the new package was clear; they do not want resigning people to take advantage on their indemnity.
We have two options, believe it or not and if not... bye, bye!
:ok:

[NO FD NO SRS]

Well said Alber. agree with every bit it.

[Sal-e]

Desert,

the fact that you've got your ear to the ground and counting indicates to me that you're wondering whether or not you've made the right move. Only time, not anyones accusations of BN, will tell.

[brassplate]

cut the bs sal. who doesn't look out for numero uno when it's crunch time?!? you can be a BN disciple if you want. those who have decided against him and/or gf and are leaving have valid reasons. what are you, BN's new pr guy now?
i'm staying with gf a little longer and not afraid to admit that money had a lot to do with it. but that's about it. no money, no honey.

[vfenext]

Seems like there are a lot of people falling for the propaganda put out by management. Fact is guys, all the best considered opinion from the aviation industry says that GF is about to run out of road. Best not to be on board when it happens. If you are staying make the most of the money cause it might have to last for a while. Sal-e is fast becoming Sad-e!! Guys like him usually have no option but to stay because of a bond or lack of experience. Yeah yeah, 7000hrs and most of it widebody, that and 1.5BD will get you a coffee in Costa.

[Sal-e]

vfenext,
wrong wrong wrong on all counts. My next job had always been at a whim, unlike yourself who will still be sucking in desert sand long after I've gone or putting up with the crappy aviation industry that you left behind in the hovel you call home. Unlike you also, I do not need this or any job. Finances are fine where I am.
Whilst on leave, it's nice to know there's lots of job offers around my neck of the woods, most of whom would hire me tomorrow. But being the professional that I am, I will see GF through the bond period at least...unlike others who had turned around and declared foul play after signing theirs and blinking when the first opportunity whiffed by them like some perfumed skirt.
All my opinions of GF had been positive even during these tumultous times and it gets a little annoying when good attitudes gets attacked by the likes of you.

[ironbutt57]

Some people leave, others stay...for some the new package makes the decision to stay a more practical..for the rest, other factors are involved, and they will still leave...no need to criticize anybody either way..best of luck to all involved

[Sal-e]

Thank you IB. As always, a mature assessment.

[vfenext]

Sal, could hardly contain the laughter from your earlier post. You have to be a comedian.....go tell us another one!!!!:Dgets a little annoying when good attitudes gets attacked by the likes of you.
Misguided little fella you better get used to it.

[Heleheleyani]

Guys, earlier this year I was bitter about the situation in Gulfair and I sometimes got upset about IB's comments, but this time IB57 and Sal-e is right.

If you guys (Jackbauer, Vfenext etc. have other opportunities good for you, be excited about your new job but I cannot see the point of still being bitter about Gulfair. It's the problem of people who stays in gulfair and if they are happy with it they good luck to them also.

Noone has a right to judge someone else's situation, even though we all work (worked) for the same airline all of us came from different social and financial backgrounds, and see the situation differently.

I think all you should do is to wish best of luck to each other.:ok:

[DesertHawk]

we all gained something from Gulf Air... some want to leave and trash it which is childish. when u got this job you knew the deal. Fact is that Gulf Air is good for some, those that want to leave good luck but please dont try to make Gulf Air your beating dog if you know what i mean. It helped you move on to "greener pastures" and that is always a good thing. Gf will always have it problems but there are worse places to be and BETTer like always

[Stratosphere6000]

Sale lets not get too excited. Personally IB57's comments have never really impressed me as I've always found them biased and one sided. However I must say well done IB for a well said statement. We all have our plans in life. Just get on with them. Time will pick out the Einsteins of us all. Well done GF on the new package. There is lots more work to be done though. Dont stop here. As for EK, EY and QR they're in a different league so not even worth comparing GF to them. Their plans are light years ahead. Doesn't have to be that way for GF though. What GF must realise is it has certain FUNDAMENTALS which need immediate attention. The package was just one of the many. If things don't work out lets hope we all can take it like grown ups cause the decisions we're all making are ours and nobody elses. My impression after talking to many guys is that they are still very much ignorant about the Gulf and its ambitions and how business is really done around here and what determines success etc.....Remember in this business you need to make informed decisions. You miss the boat and your career could easily turn to S**T.

[Eyegivenofak]

Eyegivenofak,

Eyegivenofak and nothing pisses me off anymore, seen it, done it, got the tee-shirt.

Bye!

[bus787]

I agree with Iron butt.
People will stay people will leave for Different Reasons.
For who stays Good Luck and Enjoy the Good pay rise and Bahrain.
For who leaves hope you made good studies on where you are going cause some of Gf competitors only offer Money than all Fu.... up

But whatever your Decision do NOT try to enforce it on Others.
For whoever decides to leave just leave quitely and let those who are staying to enjoy their extra beers from the extra money in Peace.

[MAKAVELI320]

BUS787 well said budy :D

[Mach084]

I never though I'd see the day to read a sensible un-biased opinion from IB57. Keep going mate, you've got a lot of catching up to do.:ok:

As for the debate "shall I go or shall I stay", as IB57 eloquently put it there will be those who stay and those who go, whatever happens. What I see though reading the various comments is that some of you talk about Naff as if we need to give the guy a chance. Well as far as I'm concerned, he had his chance, blew it and now is trying to salvage the situation which he put the airline in.

People you either suffer from amnesia or are in total denial. This is the guy who came in threatening 1500 sackings, this is the guy who said 25% staff reductions, this is the guy who chopped half our routes, this is the guy who in the first meeting said he has a list of 200 pilots who have a bad record (my ar$e) and will be sacked, this is the guy who gave us BD 200 and said "we cannot match the competition's salaries". This is the guy who when asked in the first meeting "what will you do if 100 pilots leave" replied "we'll just shut it down" YES IT IS THIS GUY.

What in heavens name makes you trust him now? It seems we all have a price, for the right price you can suffer volentary amnesia.

At least be honest and dont BS, just say the truth, you want the money and you dont give a rat's ar$e about anything else.

[Desert_Storm]

Mach084, please don't waste your time trying to show this guys the facts. I agree with you that they gotta be in denial or something cuz since Mr. BN announced the "still to come and still to see if it's going to happen" salary increase, he suddenly became an angel and the perfect manager for GF. Everyone is the master of their own destiny and time will tell mate! Meanwhile, I´ll be enjoying Abu Dhabi seeing how all this "naive believers) struggle to find out what are they going to do when all the opening positions in EY,EK and QR are fully covered. Good luck guys! :E

[CI100]

Well said Macho84.

We all have a PR$CE quiz. Try it. $$$$$$ (http://www.blogthings.com/atwhatpricewouldyouselloutquiz/)

[Joe Monsoon]

Mach084
100%:ok:

[Mach084]

Please dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince anyone to stay or leave. That is your and only your decision; I made mine and I'm happy with it.

What I dont comprehend is how short memory some of us have.

Personally I felt more secure with Hogan who came in with a branding plan and a layed out strategy for GF, he managed to raise moral and had those dimwitts on the bored (pun intended) let him get on with it we would be in a much better shape today. Hogan at least had vision for the future of GF, he wanted the airline to be back on top and he even managed to get the business traveller back.

What strategy does the present mangement have?

The only thing we know which they announced was their plan to reduce costs. Well through their own blunders they managed to double the highest cost in the airline, namely labour cost. They cut numerous prestigious routes, which are the airline's bloodline, HOW ABOUT TRYING TO DEVELOP them instead of chopping them. But you see that's hard, cutting is easy, it requires no managerial skills whatsoever. As for the rest, I guess they're still trying to figure out who we're competing with, Jassira, India express or Air Timbuktu

Oh well I had my say, good luck to good old GF.

Mach

[bus787]

Mach the airline you mentioned you are going to is loosing the same millions as GF.
Qatar loosing same millions as GF.
Only Emirates makes profit as a group because they do eveything and the have monopoly of all.
What do these have in common growing Economies Budget surplus.
Yes Gulf air is suffering like the others but as last the Govt, has understood that They have to do like others.
The Country needs the airline even if it is making loss.
This I have said since the beginning .The Country needs the ailrine to boost economy so what if it looses couple of millions this will be offset with the Boom in Economy the country is doing.
Study a bit of economics my friend and you will see that the benefit the country will get even from a loosing airline surpasses the need for the airline to make profit.
get the people here and let them spend the money in the country to boost the economy.

[bus787]

QUESTION to all Guys Leaving GF for good.
Would anyone have resigned if money in EY EK QR was less than GF??

Lets all be honest that is all we look at.

But hope all did the sums Right.

If you work 85 hours in EY and they take two off days from You .
(NO PAYMENT FOR OVERTIME GOES AGAINST BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS )
in basic terms called Slavery

Money in GF will be more.

Enjoy !!!!

[Stratosphere6000]

EY is now paying overtime above 80hrs

[Noahs Arc]

Good package no doubt but for how long.and is Gulfair really commited to inprove all sectors?Legality problems are pounding the headquarters.Aircrafts stay on ground for 12hours not been utilised,Millions get lost a day,Please God save this company from its Criminal gangs.:rolleyes:

[Mach084]

Bus787, thanks mate I'm off to study some economics.

By the way I applied to EY when their salary was less than GF but was unable to go due to the ban on GF pilots.

Cheers
Mach

[Trader]

Well, I am going to EK in October and haev not changed my mind. My decision toleave had nothing to do with money (though it was a nice bonus) but due to one very simple fact: I ABSOLUTELY do NOT trust the BOD or the government to steer GF in the right direction.

I think BN will do an excellent job with GF if they continue to give him the support that he needs. But if/when that disappears we will be back to the same old ways. I sincerely hope that does not happen but he risk in staying, in the hopes that things really have changed, is too high. I have a family and career to think about.

Assuming GF gets its act together, fixes the aircraft, deals with all the crap that goes on in the pink palace (STILL only got my leave ticket 3 days before leaving because no one gives a crap and deadly beurocracy) etc etc etc - and it is a LONG list - it might get close to being something like EK!

So really, the risk in leaving is low but the risk in staying is quite high.

[Stratosphere6000]

Trader you're really hitting the bulls eye these days. Good post........

[Sal-e]

I've mentioned this before.
The industry right now is such that it doesn't really matter whether you stay or go as far a job availability goes. It's ALL good.
After testing the market whilst on leave, I was surprised to have to decline interviews which presented themselves as quickly as a day after applying online for some jobs.
There's lots of jobs out there and I believe this will be the case for some time yet, judging the expansion rate of some airlines. If anything, a pilot shortage crisis is looming.
There is no risk any way you look at it Trader. Staying? Great. Enjoy payrises, less hassle especially for families, no proving yourself in another airline, familiarity etc etc.
Leaving? Still great. Create payrises where you left, better planes, more money, more destinations etc etc.
Right now, we have that luxury. Lets not get into a leave/stay bunfight. It's all very immature and creates undue stress where there shouldn't be any.
What you're really after is what works best for you and family (if you've got one) in every way.
Best wishes in your decisions ,friends.

[BusTie]

Trader, well said buddy.
I may be employed with Gulf Air but I work for my family. Their future constitude what comes next. Gulf Air has been great to me and my family with ALL its ups and downs. I too going to Emirates in November, but I can proudly tell all of you that it sure was the greatest Honor to be part of Long dominating airline like GULF AIR. I am sincerly happy for all my fellow co-workers getting a well overdue salary and respect which they worked hard for.
I am also man enough to say here on this public forum that if some day I am holding second to depart behind a Gulf Air plane I will have tears in my eyes and will re-live the joy of working with all the captain, CSM, CM, FA, ground staff, BAS and even the warm smile of Zamzam, Nahid, Abbass, Hamida, etc.
It was time well spent, Thank you Gulf Air for helping me with the next job and career advancment, I just hope that I contributed enough in you during the past two years as you did in mine.

[ironbutt57]

Very nice bus tie,:ok: nice to see somebody who appreciates the opportunity GF has given all of us... coming from one of many who languished in the turboprop ghetto for many years in Bahrain, we all aspired to strap the Golden Falcon on for a block, then finally with 10.000+hrs and time on type, no non-jet or on rated accepted then, we finally had the opportunity, only to share the flt deck with a bunch of denigrating 2000hr kids, who would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.(a recruitment experiment gone wrong) and show no appreciation for the opportunity GF afforded them...good luck to those who move on, and the same to those who stay the course..we all have our motives...but never forget where you came from...very well said Bus tie:ok::ok:

[Trader]

Sal-e - I agree - though if you look at my history of posts I think I have always been even keeled and, even in my complaints about GF, have tread the high road. The fact is I LIKE GF!! My reason for leaving are clear and I will miss my friends and the people I work with.

GF greatest asset is its small size. It is nice looking at your roster and knowing the Captain and some FA's that your are flying with will head out for a nice dinner and a few drinks.

I agree that there are jobs everywhere. The problem with our industry is that it is seniority driven. Waiting a year or two (if you are an FO) means at least that long less in the left seat somewhere and the loss of that income. Worst case it means you miss the boat on an upgrade by even longer should things slow down. And, at some point, they will slow down.

That was the deciding point for me. In my mid 30's I have less time to make a mistake in my career decision making. So I went for, what I hope, is the stable choice with the opportunities.

Perhaps I am jaded but I have friends, some at GF actually, who were hired behind me by only about 6 months - 2 jobs ago. I saw a left seat at BOTH company's prior to GF and they saw only the right. In total earnings over that time they lost out on about $130,000 in income plus the command time that came with it. Just plane (pun intended) bad luck but I know seniority can make a huge difference and so "I takes my chances" now as opposed to later.

But you are dead right - time will tell and, hopefully, we will all end our careers, wherever that may be, happy with the decisions we made. Despite the bitching on these forums I am pretty confident we all want the same thing - to make decent money, enjoy our jobs and feed our families.

[gimmesumvalium]

Nice post BusTie.
I hope that I will fly for an Airline that engenders the type of emotion that Gulfair has done for you.
GSV

[gimmesumvalium]

Sal & Ironbutt,
I admire your moderating influences during what appear to be trying times.
GSV

[bus787]

Stratosphere Check exactly before you post.
Overtime in Ey is not 80 hours it is above 160 hours in two months.
this way they can still make you work 90 and 70 and you get nothing.
Check all equations a lot of sums to do.

[MaffiFaloos]

I am sure we all recieved the letter from Mr Naf outlining the new package. It did not say when this new deal would be paid. I have sent an email to the address stipulated in the letter and suprisingly 'no reply'. Can anyone through some light on the matter?

[MasterArmOn]

...then, we finally had the opportunity, only to share the flt deck with a bunch of denigrating 2000hr kids, who would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.(a recruitment experiment gone wrong) and show no appreciation for the opportunity GF afforded them...good luck to those who move on

IB57, let me tell you that a Harley tattoo and some 767 and 3 pages of 320 time doesn't give you the right to insult eager and very competent 2000-3000 hrs TT guys. Most of the ex-turbo prop rated guys have more experience that they gained flying piston twins and turbo props than you ever amassed cruising in your air conditioned flight deck. Yes, you come across as an ambassador to Gulf Air here on PPrune but it's all but the opposite away from your PPrune haven.

Oh and who the hell is your "kid"? Recruitment experience gone wrong... - my ass.

[ironbutt57]

Well I agree I have no right to criticise any poster here, and pls accept my apologies,...but in the same respect, many who were given an opportunity by GF now come on the internet hiding behind an anonymous "nickname" stab in the back the very organization who gave them the opportunity to advance their careers...nothing is perfect in this world...GF, and myself far from it...but...what is to be gained by accentuating the the negative aspects of one's experiences here...if you want to post your feelings or experiences with any employer here on the website please do so..thats why Pprune exists...have a nice day ..."my ass" yes that's where you will probably find your head:D

[HELL BOY]

Good for you:D

[Sal-e]

MasterArmOn,

I'm quite annoyed at you 'single' posters, coming in on your very FIRST post with guns blazing. That must epitomize your character...nothing to contribute and bagging others at the very first opportunity.
There ARE some low houred guys who fail to appreciate how lucky they are.

[shopsywhopsy]

Well said Sal-e, let us ignore those with posts.....lets say 10 or less :}

[tbaylx]

Low houred guys aren't "lucky", that's a load of crap. They are providing a service to the company same as any of the rest of us. Their level of experience dictates that that they perform that service as an F/O however they are still performing a service for the company for which they get paid. Hardly makes them lucky, just doing their job same as anyone else.

Tired of hearing it's a priviledge to be employed for someone...just ain't so. The company isn't doing you any favors, they need someone to fill the position and you met the requirements regardless of your overall experience. Pilots provide the service to the company, not the other way around.

[Mach084]

tbaylx well said :D:D:D:D:D

[MasterArmOn]

MasterArmOn,

I'm quite annoyed at you 'single' posters, coming in on your very FIRST post with guns blazing. That must epitomize your character...nothing to contribute and bagging others at the very first opportunity.
There ARE some low houred guys who fail to appreciate how lucky they are.

First of mate, you don't have the sligtest clue what you're talking about regarding this one. Were you not once a "low" houred guy? Or perhaps you parker-penned your hours to reflect a heavy sack of experience? I'm hacked of at IB57's post because he takes a direct hit to what he considers "low houred kids". I'm extremely proud of what I do and I can say with confidence, not ignorance, that about half of the time I think I'm doing a better job than the captain I'm flying with. Why? Because my professional commitment IS actually on the task at hand at that point in time and I don't yap-yap on my mobile until 2 minutes before pushback or rush the paperwork after shutdown just so I can leave with the passengers after a 12 hour duty day. I'm also not a first time poster, rather a seasoned contributor to PPrune. Just under various screen names :}. Go figure Einstein.

have a nice day ..."my ass" yes that's where you will probably find your head

IB57, my head might be up my ass in your opinion but at least I've got the savvy to plan ahead not to be flying anymore when I'm your age. Who wants to do this job because they "enjoy" it "so much" until they're 65? I'm planning on lying on a beach when I'm 45-50 and enjoying my retirement.

Time to go log my last flight... Well, how about that, tallying up to 3673.2 hours now. I guess I'm amongst the wrong crowd. Better get out before their ego's start affecting their health.

[DesertHawk]

HEY IB, who **** in your cornflakes this morning? Had a rough night? I understand you want people to appreciate GF but taking a run at "low timers" is not the way to go. I was hired with many guys at various levels of experience and to be honest most of the bitching is coming from the more experienced FO's in my group anyways. Yes some people are not appreciative. But just casue you "had it rough" dont piss all over my parade!!!!:=

[Dixons Cider]

People,people step back and have a look at yourselves - there's no need for this rubbish.

[NO FD NO SRS]

Master First officer

You must be one those first officer who after each flight calls his friends and tells them how he saved the day.
wait my friend till you get your 4 bars and then you will realize that being a commander is much more than just setting up the MCDU in 30 seconds.

[Albergineman]

After all these disputes to prove who are the best FO or CP...:ugh:, let's resume the subject! Does anybody have any information about the new package? When it will be on our payslip, October, November?

[Capt Hair Y Balls]

If you chaps are just about done measuring your privates can we get on with it.

Mr Butthead57 has a way of provoking these sentiments, I recall his "eurobrats" comments. Wonder how he shares the same A320 flight deck space now with the very same "eurobrats" he was insulting:ouch:

[Sal-e]

Thanks, funny it had to come from a "single" poster. Ooops. But that's exactly what I meant tbaylx. Didn't mean to offend.
So now that we've gotten our desired pay increases, does this mean we move on to other things to whinge about? Because that's already starting in other threads.
I will therefore refuse to negatively engage in further bagging of the company of my employ and will be making the best of whatever time frame I have with them.

[MaffiFaloos]

Once again this, as with so many threads, degenerates into infintile back biting. Those of us who are interested in our company and colleges ARE BORED TO DEATH READING THIS RUBBISH. Would any fellow posters have any news on when the 'New Deal' is to be payed and if it is to be back dated when to?

[ironbutt57]

According to the roadshow it was effective that day, payable retroactive in November...anybody else got an update or a more clear understanding???

[fractional]

who are the best FO or CP?...:ugh:Think about teamwork and put aside egos that only lead to CFIT:}. First, try to make it work within the work station (?) and if unsuccessful, report the guy/girl conscienciously and constructively. Suggest further training or checks before sending him/her home:sad:.

[Sandy Swan]

In the past most GF issues boiled down to one concern. Are they serious? Are the shareholders committed to capitalizing and funding an airline with a real future?
Relatively soon after JH took over,perhaps it was late 2003, I opened my PH one day and there was that handsome publication with the title A Journey of Change, featuring the one and only GF Balance Sheet we have ever been shown, and the answer was clear. They weren't. The four shareholders had never put up the required equity( indeed,one, Qatar had just done a bunk), with the total share capital only USD330m and the net equity a startling USD 149m, this financial horror clearly like a fire bell that the Report couldn't silence and which required an enigmatic KPMG footnote to explain. Obviously,the airline had only been surviving on ad hoc cash handouts for years.

I have always assumed that the reason JH went public with that one and only Balance Sheet, apart from trying to cultivate a branding image of transparency and accountability , was to embarass the BOD into action.
After all, it wasn't a pretty picture. Let me just remind you of the limited liability company's state of affairs at the end of 2002.
The net profit for the year was a loss of USD 104m.
The Owner's funds or capital employed was USD 149m, giving a return on investment of - 69.9 %!
The Company was technically insolvent, with current assets of USD 322m versus current liabilities of USD 458m.
The accumulated losses were USD 382m.
The Term Loans( with varying rates of interest, costing USD 40m per year) plus funds due to owner states plus employees' indemnities( a liability, by the way, which doesn't have to be funded) totalled USD 699m.
The company's assets? 2 A320, 6 A330, 5 A340, plus spares and engines, all with a net book value of USD 770m. The HQ was noted to be on land that belonged to ' a shareholder ' and was rent free.
Since then, we have been told, the situation has only got worse. AD announced that in 2006- 2007 the losses were USD 1m per day! The assets have depreciated. And two more shareholders have pulled out.
My point in rehashing this sad story is to ask the same question as we have been asking all these years. Is the sole surviving shareholder serious? Will they capitilize and fund the airline? Will they restructure and make public a balance sheet which reveals a totally transformed equity picture? So far, it seems, they haven't. They've followed the same old route of monthly handouts. They've flogged off any asset they can get their hands on, and, I believe, have plans to offload the whole Training Centre.We have even heard that another airline with an authorised capital of USD 1 billion has been estalished.
IMHO, no new salary package, no weekly newsletter from the CEO heralding a new dawn, no new route structure or customer initiative, can be a substitute for showing us another, transformed balance sheet. Until we see one, we should be very cautious and sceptical

[brassplate]

don't care much about history actually, just that paycheck in the account at the end of the month is all that matters for me. no money, no honey...new airline, bond or no bond, notice or no notice...easy as 123.

[Trader]

Brassplate, I think the point was that if the company cannot survive going forward - and it will not without significant investment......thwn there will be nomonthly paycheques!

[scanscanscan]

It is understandable Brassplate feels the way he does about GF....he has seen what treatment Captain Rad Gammage got after 31 years loyal service.
Such airline managers generally get the pilot attitude they deserve and eventually the accident figures.

[ironbutt57]

One must also bear in mind the basic philosophy behind a national airline is not to be a profit center, but a bearer of the flag, and to contribute by bringing business passengers, expat labor, tourism, and other revenue generating sources...this being considered I'd hazard a guess GF at least breaks even by doing so...now to re-equip, and streamline, and re-open routes while not operationally profitible, give GF, thus the Kingdom of Bahrain a very important presence in these markets. In the end GF will cost Bahrain less to own, as it may eventually almost pay for itself...

[Sal-e]

You are absolutely correct on that one IB. The problem with that though is the government will subsidise only as far as is necessary to keep us running if that is in fact their intention, using the airline for the sole purpose of bringing in business.
But if they realise that they could actually compete if they tried, and by doing so boost everyones morale and the overall product, provide jobs etc, they'd be pleasantly surprised that there might be good revenues to be made.

[Bombay HF]

I've been saying this for months now. GF never will or can be profitable. But so what. IB talks about tourism and business as well as opening loss making routes. They should never have closed those routes. Are there not businessmen from Asia and tourists from Australia with Middle Eastern ancestry? As far as Indian labourers go, this time next year Jet and Kingfisher will both be flying to the Gulf so i predict a massive downturn in that market for GF, and the rest of the Gulf carriers as well.

[LOC STAR]

Bombay HF an idea for you, if you are so impress by KF why don’t you join them and have a nice day.:ok:

[Ibn Kalb]

Tourism? Hello ? Get real!

Tourism for the authorities here means a lead of people coming from a close country to **** and drink. And drink and drive.

[notrocketscience]

Gentlemen,

You have done exactly what your Management wanted you to do: by seemingly 'talking out of turn', and mentioning expat redundancies, your Management rid themselves of the ambitious, and those who were lukewarm in their support for the company. What they are left with are the locals, the unambitious, the optimists (who think things will get better) and those who could be financially challenged by leaving. In other words, they now have a more compliant workforce, who will be prepared to put up with whatever s**t they may care to throw at them.

There is a saying in the Middle East that promises are made to be broken, and this is what will happen with GF: your new package will be cocooned in such woolly terms as to be open to several interpretations. You will become the butt of mushroom management.

You will join the ranks of SV and KU ferrying expat labour to and fro: standards will be allowed to drop even further and hiring will be restricted to low-wage countries. You are now all part of a Government Organisation, with the attendant disregard for excellence, customer service and punctuality that this brings.

[Sal-e]

Hey sprocketscientist,
You the latest doomsday prophet are you? Just spectating from a safe distance? Wimp!! Why don't you get amongst it and enjoy while it lasts? Did GF hurt you?

[Sal-e]

Just as I thought. Wimp.

[ironbutt57]

Sal-e you appear to have departed the solar system..re-cleared direct to "GF new package":ok:

[Capt Al Fakhem]

Talk about "new package", funny how nothing has been put in writting as to when this illusive "new package" will be "delivered"

He verbally said Nov 1st after looking around his bunch of cronies for an answere but he failed to mention which Nov, 2007, 2008, 2009..........2020 :uhoh:

[ironbutt57]

I suspect everybody is counting on Nov 2007....:confused:

[Sal-e]

Direct GF New Package...Sierra Alpha Lima...
Captain Al, why are you freaking out re implementation date? Hasn't it been obvious for November and backdated for June?
On another note, apparently this summer has been the most profitable by GF to date. So a little win by the optimists.
I am glad GF is under so much scrutiny, more so right now than anyone else in the ME. The bad apples tend to cower away in some dark corner when every one is watching.

[Capt Al Fakhem]

Sal-e me "freaking" ????? I'm too old and too well versed in the GF ways to be "freaking" or even remotely pulling a sweat my dear chap.

Ahhh ignorance is bliss :zzz:

[Sal-e]

They will surely know about it if they do not implement their word....in the form of an irreversible mass exodus the likes of which the world has never seen. Even with the new scale, only a handfull had withdrawn resignations.

[brassplate]

if i'm not mistaken, i thought you were one of the staunch stayers sal. sounds like you got cold feet all of a sudden.

[Sal-e]

Hell no. I'm here til the fat lady sings or bond period up and zero satisfaction.

[notrocketscience]

Ahhh, Sal,

staunch stayer = bond period not up = financially-challenged = compliant workforce. (My #204 refers). Good luck with the Golden Falcon.

Do I want to mix it with you guys at GF? No thanks - sufficient challenges where I am.

Wimp? Moi? Non.

[downNOgreens]

You GF boys are like hungry little birds that just had their feed, judging by the lack of squealing complaints hounding this entire forum over the last half year. Wonder if the noise will come back in November when promises are broken.

[Panama Jack]

little birds? :confused:

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/primary/peregrine-falcon.jpg

[downNOgreens]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gJ1BpiB7RQOnQM:http://www.naturephotosociety.org.sg/dcforum/User_files/40e93aa50ab8b20a.jpg (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.naturephotosociety.org.sg/dcforum/User_files/40e93aa50ab8b20a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.naturephotosociety.org.sg/ASP/Article.asp%3FDBAPublishDate%3D7/5/2004&h=504&w=504&sz=96&hl=en&start=4&sig2=lvQMosOfmLfF4B5OTqViAw&um=1&tbnid=gJ1BpiB7RQOnQM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=130&ei=BmfpRsOMI43shwLI2uHSBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchicks%2Bfeeding%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3De n%26rlz%3D1T4SKPB_enBH221BH221%26sa%3DN)

This is more like it!!

[LOC STAR]

hello guys, i think it's over the package is good stop wasting yur time...:D

[Soft Altitude]

Meaning ? Stay or leave ?

[Albergineman]

Agree and the exodus has finished. The rate of resignations will be back to normal, inshallah...
:ok:

[gimmesumvalium]

As an otsider, I cant understand why they are trying to hang on to the scum that are leaving. Disloyalty etc.
World -class airlines like Singapore do not take back people who leave for other airlines due to disloyalty, slides etc.
GF is obviously not ready to be a world class airline!!

[gimmesumvalium]

Golden Falcon or Stricken Chicken????

[bigmountain]

I believe that its being disloyal while working for your present airline and not giving 100%. It would then be preferable to leave the airline.

If then one finds that the "grass is not green " in the other ailrine, then it is a testament to the old airline that it is indeed a place to work for and that if people are returning to work with them again , the others who are cribbing should perhaps weigh their decsions a bit more dispassionately..
BM

[Soft Altitude]

Not again this loyalty crap ! What about loyalty when the company does not need you ? Not even 3 months notice will be respected; you'll get your money and out you go !!! So, who's not being loyal then ?
I used to work for SIA, left, and have been again offered a job with them, recently, after just a couple of years.
Check your facts gimmesomevalium and get real !!!

[Soft Altitude]

And YES : Gulf Air IS a world class airline !

[Desert_Storm]

[QUOTE As an otsider, I cant understand why they are trying to hang on to the scum that are leaving. Disloyalty etc.
World -class airlines like Singapore do not take back people who leave for other airlines due to disloyalty, slides etc.
GF is obviously not ready to be a world class airline!]

Can clearly see that you´ve never been related to the aviation industry or if you are, you are lacking a lot of experience my friend. Keep up with your loyalty for the company until they decide your services are not longer required here and then, just wait and see how they'll kick your butt out of here without any hesitation nor loyalty for you, despite you might have worked for them for several years. Believe me, you don't want to know how it feels but don't judge pilots for leaving the company for greener pastures since after all, money talks, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[Capt Al Fakhem]

LOYALTY:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Just take a look people how they rewarded Rad's 31 odd years of loyalty to this damn airline. Dont talk crap, they dont give a rat's arse about their staff. The Brit Club placed a condolence add in the GDN for Rad and what did GF do.................. absolutely F*CK ALL, the guy dedicated his whole adult life to the service of this company.

[scanscanscan]

Gulf Air has "Previous"
A GF L1011 British Captain was terminated minutes before his UK Brain tumour operation... and the surgeon advised by GF that he nolonger worked for Gulf Air... not now covered by insurance... the surgeon was to pick up his fee direct..Gf was out of there..for the record this Captains widow does not like Gf much either.
I do not suppose for a minute GF have upgraded their insurance cover or learned anything from Rads death...probably unaware he has died if you ask their spokesman.

[Sandy Swan]

This afternon Captain Rad Gammage's ashes lay in St Christopher's Cathedral for his memorial. The pews were packed and the two non GF speakers emotionally recalled for us his outstanding services to aviation. Senior GF pilots were present. My question is this. Where was the top management? Why was there no eulogy from a Board Member or from the executive management? If these individuals are not forthcoming enough to recognise and extol the qualities and the commitment of their most senior Captain, to whose GF employee's funeral would they go and speak?

[NO FD NO SRS]

its a shame that no one from higher management could spare an hour to show some respect to this great man's grieving famiy who gave every thing to this company.

[scanscanscan]

Again...Gulf Air has "Previous"...The 737 Captains widow (Omani) was required to wait outside the CEO office for four days to get his accident insurance....The Australian widow was forced to fight for several months for her husbands accident insurance.
I joined Gulf Aviation in April 1974 with Rad...we flew out from the Uk together...he helped me convert my FAA Atr to the UK ATPL...we worked together until May 2000 when I was retired...never a cross word...never heard him curse...never saw him angry...never saw him late for a flight..or involved in any incidents or tape violations...dead reliable...totally honest...what you saw was what you got...have not seen him for a couple of years...world is not a worse place for having him pass through...guess he has seniority on me now in the new place...that will please him...my family and I all miss him...the Brit club will look empty for us without him....safe journey old friend...island reserve fuel and do not forget to put the wheels down...you are remembered with honour by the people that care.

[bird dog]

Everybody that believes in what is written in black and white:

You will have a very unpleasant surprise in the coming pay checks regarding housing allowances. The curious ones could verify whats the latest directive from HR to housing Dept., specially the ones in GF accommodation....

[Capt Al Fakhem]

Scan your words mate could not better describe how we all feel about Rad. Attending his memorial the other day I was absolutely shocked how not even one of the senior management of this airline was present. People from the Brit Club were there, friends, colleagues and even guys who didnt know Rad that well were there.

My loyalty is to my family and friends, end of story.

[Che Guevara]

So Bird Dog, why don't you go ahead and let us know what this rumour is about the housing allowance, that is if it there is one:hmm:

We are all ears...

Salud!

[Albergineman]

Please bird dog let us know what is going on. Are they not going to pay us the new housing allowance? What do you mean about gulf air accomodation? Please be clear and straight.

[bird dog]

Ok guys. I live in a house under GFs contract( GF accommodation) and today I learned from housing Dept. that I will not get 650 BDs as stated in the the new package pay scales paper issued by operations. The new housing allowance will be applicable only for who are taking the money directly from GF. This is not a rumour but official information as a directive from HR to housing. Think that will clarify some of you and, maybe, together will can reverse it to make it fair for everyone. Together we can do it!!!

[chrispatrickGA]

Bird dog,
If people in GF recognise themselves in your situation they will surely try to help you... Otherwise they wont give a dam s... about the fact you dont get the new allowance.
Thats GF.... loyalty. To come back to Rad, I could not attend the ceremeny, but I remember having asked GF management 2 months ago ...
<< Any news about captain Gamage? >>
REPLY: << He is sick I believe no?>>:yuk::yuk:
I was so pissed off that I just left the office thinking I made the right decision to have given my resignation... Guys when are you going to understand nobody has any respect for you in that company... only faked smiles , there is no heart , no feeling for a man who served the company during so many years like Rad did ...
When the death of a gentleman can not even raise the attention of GF , how dare can you imagine guys you won't be fooled by this company very soon ...?:*:*

[Albergineman]

I remember, last week in the meeting at GF simulator building, a guy asking to VPFO and A/HOFO about this housing allowance issue and they said that the sistem would not change at all. I will not be surprised if they do it, they are master on not follow the contract, together they can screw it!
We definetly have to do something, these people only move if we move, the last exodus had some result.
I have to change my mind about gf...

:D

[B. Bonga]

..........guess the solution is to take the money and make your own arrangements with landlord. It should work out to be the same rate actually. It's just that sometimes we never want to do the asking ourselves and we let run GF do everything. I don't see how GF will give you "change" from the new allowance since they made the deal at a lower rate and now we are getting more for housing. Guess it's easier for them to pocket the change lest somebody throws a tantrum in housing or in CC's office

[crab angle]

Yes, I heard too! This is totally unfair. I live in a house “Gulf Air accommodation” (under GF contract) that I pay 200BD extra from my pocket because GF didn’t honour the contract to provide suitable accommodation for my family. Now that our ACEO promised and published a new package with an increase in housing allowance, I will have to continue pay extra 200BD. I have the sensation that there is a red ball on my nose.
Now, try to cancel this GF contract and do one by yourself with your landlord. For sure you will pay 70% more!
http://www.1001-votes.com/vote/4253sor/clown/clown-4.gif

[El Rey Leon]

Back to GF Loyalty with Rad after 31 Years of service :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Dear All,
As you may already know Captain Yxxxxb Al-xxxxi, will be leaving Gulf Air on the 30th September 2007, having spent 31 years with the Company.
We are having a collection to buy him a leaving gift, if anybody is interested in contributing please contact Mrs. Noora Al-Mursel on 17338747 or fleet office on 17338007, 17338172, 1st Floor wing A, open area.
Thank you
Regards

[bird dog]

That is amazing how easy is to collect money when they want to. Remember how hard was for Icarus and others to find a way for the ones of us interested in donating for Rads recovery. Maybe buying retirement presents is more important for them!!!

[slowjet]

On the Rad case; does anyone know exactly what the Gf management did, or not do ? Does anyone know exactly what the Insurance Company did, or did not do ? Was Rad Technically still employed & covered ? In any event, of course the former is of little importance as Rad's extensive service record should have merited full action by the Gf management team.

Copy all the comments on Rads case & copy all the wonderful messages of condolences. Mount them, frame it & give that to YA !

What a fabulous group, Icarus, Mach 84 & all the rest who tried so hard. Makes me proud to be part of this profession.

[Albergineman]

So this is how the thing works: the board approve the new package, the A/CPE inform us and the HR change it. Who has more power?

[SubsonicMortal]

What do you mean HR changed it?

[Albergineman]

The HR changed the new package regarding to housing allowance. If you are in the GF accommodation or leaving in a place where the contract was signed by GF and the landlord, you will not be granted with the new figures of the housing allowance. This is an internal instruction to housing department. If you want it you have to change the contract to your name and have the amount credited to your payslip.
Actually, it wasn’t changed, they “just didn’t informed” us about.
I was checking my contract, pay slip and the new package and there is no mention about differences between GF accommodation and housing allowance but if you don’t want to have any money deducted from your pocket you were limited to the allowance figures.
Example for married F/O phase2 renting a fully furnished apartment:

Housing allowance…………………Bd450
Utility allowance…………………...…Bd48
Taxes……………….aprox. 10% of above
Total…………………………aprox. Bd550

Example for married F/O Compensation package renting a fully furnished apartment:

Housing allowance…………………Bd650
Utility allowance…………………...…Bd48
Taxes……………….aprox. 10% of above
Total…………………………aprox. Bd770

With the new instruction from HR, we under the condition above will not have the benefit to move to a place where the rent is BD770 according to the new package. The HR decided that on the case above we will remain on the phase2 without any explanation about. It goes against what is stated on our contract and in what is written on the new package papers.
Who can explain this?

:D

[DesertHawk]

question. did not quite follow you on that one

are u saying.... if GF has done my paper for my villa at monthy cost of 600BD that i will not get the housing increase??? and i will have to continue to pay our of my pocket or change the contract????

[crab angle]

DESERTHAWK, YES! YOU ARE RIGHT! This is the point.

[Albergineman]

Deserthawk:

You have two options, first you will continue to pay the difference (absolutely not fair according to the new package) or change your contract. But be careful, do not sign yearly contract because at the end the landlord will ask how much he wants to renew it. You will only be protected by law if you sign two years or more contracts that can only be readjusted by 10%.
But this is not the point, the point is they hidden these conditions and just said that the housing was increased. And for sure people considered this housing allowance when withdrawing their resignation. Seems that somebody is cheating us again!

:D

[Soft Altitude]

Correct me if I am wrong: you can still leave GF accomodation, find another one that suits you, settle with a contract on your name and get up to 700 Bds plus, monthly, for your "new" accomodation. A little inconvenient I reckon, but better than staying in any accomodation you dislike, while paying money out of your pocket ! Isn't it ?

[DesertHawk]

i truly hope this is not the case as BN has prided himself on being "open" and honest which this is not. i find it odd since we have already recieved the first increase on housing. why would they not just continue with our contracts and pat upto the max allowed?????

also soft alt......please i live in a place for 2,3,4,5,years and have to move because of some crap like this???? Also good luck finding a villa that is similar living conditions at the same price. same place i moved into 3 years ago is now 225 per month more.

And to to get to far ahead. Al where did you get this info?? we could be getting all hot and bothered over nothing

[Heleheleyani]

I don't know if this information is correct or not but I know a fact that if we decide to make the contract ourselves and we what's introduced in the package, eg. single FO 550 and Married FO 650; the utility allowance and the taxes are not paid in to the salary it's only paid if Gulfair signs the contract for us. So either case we lose if this information is correct.

[Trader]

My guess...and this is a guess.....is that if you are entitled to 650BD (married) you will get that OR if your base rent is above this amount you will pay the difference.

All will get the utilities paid to their payslip and this complicated mess with the taxes will disappear. You get 650 regardless of how you structure the contract.

If you are currently paying LESS than 650 you will be credited the difference on your pay.

That would make sense anyways and, at the same time, rid housing of their silly formulas regarding taxes and furnished or not etc.

[Albergineman]

Guys, the better way to sort it out is to ask Housing dept., VPFO and/or VPHR and demand an explanation. If we sign a contract it must be followed. It seems that internal instruction has more power than our contract or what PCE, VPFO says about. What’s next?

:D

[ironbutt57]

Its an issue to be sorted and I'm sure it will...maybe a bit confused right now...maybe better in the long run to just go private with your lease anyway...think personally GF should get out of the lease business...less opportunity for "mistakes"

[JoeJack]

Agree with IB57!!! GF gets out of the property leasing business and, obviously, Housing Dept. can be shut down. Half floor will be available in HDQ, money will be saved from the pay of all those up there (including that elderly british lady "secretary" that does nothing but eating her cereal and having her tea all day long) and, last but not least, less reports will be sent to Ethics Point...:E

Shall we present this plan to BN?

Safe Flights!:ok:

JJ

[butteekh]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :)

[B. Bonga]

The best option is to take the housing money and look for your own accomodation. With the new allowance am sure you can get something pretty decent if you look around. (herein lies the problem since a lot of the guys hate looking around ) If the rent is becoming too steep am sure you can get invade a villa and share with a couple of guys like some guys do in QR due to the high rentals in Doh.