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LTN man
15th Jan 2002, 01:27
As posted to Alt.travel.uk.air

Paper report read today states that Ryanair is alientating UK Airports by demanding they halve their landing charges, according to Bristol
Airport commerical Director Mike Luddy.

The Carrier blames the impact of September 11 for its decision *** to withhold 50% of its landing charges countrywide***

Wonderful, they use the airports, land and take off and then decide not to pay 50% of the already agreed charges for that service. How
nice!

HugMonster
15th Jan 2002, 01:51
Hmmmmmmmmm. Their landing fees at most places is already pretty low. Not paying 50% of them will cause a lot of small airports problems. Furthermore, one of the first signs of trouble is often landing fees and/or fuel uplifts not paid for...

jongar
15th Jan 2002, 02:04
I thought airports can impound the planes for non payment ??? could be interesting

ADC
15th Jan 2002, 02:31
There's no doubt about it, Ryanair must win the award for the most ARROGANT airline EVER.

They have been crowing like mad about how well they have managed through the worst aviation crisis in decades, while at the same time screwing the airports and blaming the aviation crisis.

Let us hope that some of the airports work the same system and padlock a few of their aircraft for non payment.

judy
15th Jan 2002, 03:02
Isnt this just the corner shop of aviation.....?

mainfrog2
15th Jan 2002, 04:09
Maybe the airports should demand the airport fees be paid before the aircraft can take off. That would steady things up a bit. Aircraft don't have to take off but they do have to land. Isn't M'OL also spiteing the very airports that allowed him in part to make his airline the success it is.

maxalt
15th Jan 2002, 05:10
It's a symbiotic relationship. You've probably seen 'em before on National Geographic.

Now, which one is the sucker?

flite idol
15th Jan 2002, 06:17
Yeah and I`ve seen many parasitic ones too.!

Blacksheep
15th Jan 2002, 06:49
I seem to recall one carrier that didn't pay their landing fees, at LHR. That was ignored for a long time, until one day they showed up with a brand new Tri-Star on an "Inaugral" bash complete with press day and fireworks. The crew for the return flight arrived at the aircraft to find a writ pasted to the entry door and a barricade to prevent push-back. Landing fees are like TV licences, they always get you in the end.

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

mutt
15th Jan 2002, 07:32
Hugmonster,

Where I come from, statements like this are called $hit stirring......

Furthermore, one of the first signs of trouble is often landing fees and/or fuel uplifts not paid for...

Mutt.

whose ya daddy!
15th Jan 2002, 11:39
Well for the company that boasted bumper traffic increases in the last few months of ??%, was highly crittical of other airlines who wanted government handouts to help out after Sept 11, I have two words for you......BULL S**T! :)

In my past experience, landing fee arrears =
2 tugs parked at your rear!

[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: whose ya daddy! ]</p>

Doodles
15th Jan 2002, 12:55
Bet they haven't tried it at any BAA airports - them tugs and sheriffs is fast

King Chile
15th Jan 2002, 14:55
Hey Mutt, if you take a historical slant on it, e.g. AE, Dan Air, and more recently BWA, all of whom in their latter days were tight for cash (i.e. struggling to pay the bills), then perhaps Huggy has a point.

The golden rule of running an airline (or any business come to that) is to protect your cash flow, because once that's dried-up you're stuffed !

Best Western
15th Jan 2002, 15:41
Isn't what Ryanair are doing simply theft?

Many people have had pay cuts since September 11th, and they can't simply pay J Sainsbury half the shopping bill each month..

Its Just Ryanair flexing their muscles yet again, and people giving in to them.

411A
15th Jan 2002, 16:37
Like it or not guys, Ryanair and other LOW cost carriers, are the wave of the future, landing fees notwithstanding.
Is BA still going ahead with their plan to dump short-haul routes because they cannot compete?
Would not be surprised.

Sid's Stars
15th Jan 2002, 16:58
Does this mean I only have to pay half my ticket cost?

brain fade
15th Jan 2002, 17:12
Ryanair! Dontchalov'em? Theres nowt wrong with trying to persuade the airports to give them the 50% discount discussed here. Trying to get off with half the fees you have already been charged on the other hand, is something quite different.
Perhaps it makes a little more sense when read alongside Ryanairs 'recruitment' policy. You know, application £50, sim ride £150, type rating £15,000 etc. Then there is the matter of the £6,800 start salery for junior F/O's.
Anyone else see the ghost of a trend developing here?

quaerereverum
15th Jan 2002, 18:00
£6800, Wow!

Isn't that less than minimum wage?

Desk Driver
15th Jan 2002, 18:06
Not for an Irish Airline

christian_MD80
15th Jan 2002, 18:16
Is it true, that minimum for an Irish airline is zero minus 15, 150, 15.000, (uniform)...?

chris_MD80

stickshake
15th Jan 2002, 22:45
411a

your comment is tantamount to 'theft is the future' and that can't be right now can it. (Rhetorical question i.e. one that requires no answer).

Rgds

Shakey

Stagnation Point
15th Jan 2002, 22:55
Ah aint they just trying to get in on the post Xmas sales

Fraudsquads
15th Jan 2002, 23:05
This is rediculous, they may be able to charge pilots for an application form etc and they can sure leave people's bags behind when they want.

What they cannot do is take off without clearance from ATC, in the case of BRS the whole airport is owned and run as one operation. Ground the a/c until they cough up. This is business and you can't break contracts in business and get away with it.

Pay up M O'L or leave your pax sat in the a/c til you do. If I was a tug driver I'd happily park up for the day.

FS

BOEINGBOY1
15th Jan 2002, 23:58
wasn't there an episode in manchester, some 12mths or so ago, where a ryan 737 was prevented from leaving for a few hours, because they were "behind" in there payments of landing fee's???

Deadleg
16th Jan 2002, 02:12
Is this why BRS airport are busy wheel clamping staff cars and holding them to ransom-to pay Ryanairs fees!

crab
16th Jan 2002, 14:45
Failure to pay landing fees closely followed by fuel companies demanding cash only for fuel has in my experience been the first signs of an airline having cash flow problems.Is the Ryanair bubble about to burst?

sgt.culpepper
16th Jan 2002, 21:26
Boeingboy , yes there was an incident in MAN re non payment by FR of airport charges. Management had enough and did the tug bit or whatever.Despite much promising by Ryanair that the cheque was finally in the post, management at MAN were not convinced and held the aircraft until the dosh was delivered -bank draft i seem to remember ,many hours later.
What smaller airports need to be wary of is a situation where one carrier can have so much of their business that they can be effictively held to ransom.
This actually happened in Kerry airport. Ryanair squeezed such a cut throat deal that the airport woke up one morning and found that it had no money for any future development.In order to get some dosh together it decided to surcharge the pax £5 per head outbound . Ryanair then mounted a PR campaign asking pax not to pay the charge and threatning all sorts of legal stuff.Kerry were caught everyway.I don't know how it all ended up but it was a wake up call for other airports. Knock in particular who told O'Leary to f off if he didn't like their charges.Evidence around that Belfast Intnl have also learned from this and have given a similiar response .
Big question now for Mo'L is - where is the next 25%growth going to come from. FR shares have had their first downgrading in recent memory from some analysts.

Sky Blue
16th Jan 2002, 21:42
Low cost is definetly not the way forward for Airlines in Europe or The US. Ryan Air could not even be described as a low cost carrier its just a pretender that will end up having a very bad landing.

Easy Jet and Go are showing signs of what the future low costs will become like. Yes there will be no frills but there will be allocated seats as well as flying to proper Airports close to major Cities and not Five hours drive away.

British Airways and American Airlines will go on to give customers who want to pay more for reliability quality service and a choice of excellent destinations as well as connections to Airports accross the Globe.

If I Micheal O leary wants to remain as Europes leading low cost flag carrier he beeter take a leaf out of Go's book. But to be quite honest Ryan Air is phethetic and should start to join the real world of Airlines.


''We all Know what keeps Airlines in the Air and its not lift but plenty of cash and even Micheal O Leary can't keep an Airline going by just talking bull****!

<img src="mad.gif" border="0">

schwabn
16th Jan 2002, 22:44
Low cost is the way forward and as far as the landing fees are concerned, don't for a minute believe that FR is heading for trouble!

MOL just likes to try it on occasionally and if he succeeds then well done to him. He will however learn to back off once he's been told to f**k off by the relevant airport owners. This is how things turned out in NOC, KIY and MAN so let's just see how far he'll be able to go in BRS.

HMU
16th Jan 2002, 22:55
LTN MAN what is your problem with Ryanair ?.

HugMonster
17th Jan 2002, 03:00
[quote]MOL just likes to try it on occasionally and if he succeeds then well done to him.<hr></blockquote>So you approve of theft, do you?

Self Loading Freight
17th Jan 2002, 05:39
Two can play at Ryanair's game. If it really is threatening to unilaterally withold half the agreed landing fees, then it is quite within the rights of the airports concerned to club together and advertise their willingness to impound aircraft at the drop of a boarding pass, under such circumstances. No need to mention any particular carrier by name -- the much despised corps of journos can be relied upon to fill in the gaps.

It would be interesting to see how many passengers are willing to fly on a particular carrier if they think that they might turn up and have an extended chance to examine the inside of the departure lounge. Of course, there's a risk that the pax would just get scared and stay away in general -- but I think it would be possible to word things to avoid that.

It's in nobody's interests if Ryanair's preferred game of hardball results in airports running out of cash.

R

jongar
17th Jan 2002, 06:23
I have looked at using both EJ and Ryan but for the convieniece of flying into Belfast City and Heathrow, BD offer great value

sky9
17th Jan 2002, 19:34
Someone who doesnít pay their bills generally gets a poor credit rating. Will it be reflected in their "Standard and Poor"? - if so credit is going to cost more.

Invalid Delete
17th Jan 2002, 20:53
HMU : I think LTN MAN's problem with Ryanair is that they agreed to pay a certain price then unilaterally decided to pay only half of the bill at the agreed fees, after the event, hence breaking the terms of the contract. Hence forcing everyone else to pay more than their fair share. Then blaming their cost cutting exercise on 911, when earlier they were bleeting that no airlines should be given state aid.

Whilst I profess to be no smarter than the next person, I can see what his problem with Ryanair is.

I guess you can't blame FR for trying but I do think that these sort of antics are particularly poor, especially after boasting how well they are doing.

It's like a David O'Beckham walking into his local chip shop and asking how much 40 bags of fish and chips cost (for all his team mates), ordering them, eating them all and then only giving the poor owner half the money. All the other football teams and locals who only ever have the odd bag of chips then end up subsidising the brain dead. In the meantime DOB is telling the local punters that he got paid 120,000 pounds last week and that chips really are more expensive than they should be....

....But don't get me on to Fish and Chip shops again !!!

Invalid Delete
17th Jan 2002, 20:56
Max alt : I forgot to say, your post was very funny ROFLMAO.

LTN man
17th Jan 2002, 23:23
To HMU, I have no problem with Ryanair but I think it is important that PPRUNEers know what is going on with this outfit. If MOL was a second hand car salesman Iím sure he would be under investigation by trading standards and the police for being rather dodgy. :)

MEVERTSGB
19th Jan 2002, 01:35
If you don't pay for services you've already had, then you are a common thief (or 'teef' to our Paddy pruners). The guy is a serious liability to his airline. The sooner they get shot of him, the better. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

gul dukat
19th Jan 2002, 03:51
V 50...Ryan don't fly into BFS or bhd so whats your point?

andyc
21st Jan 2002, 03:21
I read in some papers lastlate last year that RyanAir were putting FLS under heavy pressure to reduce maintenance charges. I would consider this to be much more serious. FLS are suffering, and if their bigger customers get reductions, there has to be safety concerns. Maintenance, especially on the older 737s should be a priority.

ADC
21st Jan 2002, 04:58
Hey Invalid Delete, have you got a thing about Chip Shops !. . <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

airbourne
21st Jan 2002, 09:51
In the past Ive probably said that I admire MOL for his business sense and the way they make money. But on this one I hope he get fooked in the ass and has his a/c impounded!

Seem to remember a story a few years back that UK customs impounded an a/c after checking their bars and finding that they were not sealed when they landed, so the cabin crew could sell that extra bit of duty free before pulling into the terminal.

Just saw the banner ad for Ryanair. What will Danny and co do if they decide that the after effects of 911, led to a drop off in pilot applications and pay half to pprune!?

[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: airbourne ]</p>