Jetflite training

[jsport5]

I posted this on another thread under M@c@ir. Could anoyone help?
"Hi guys and girls (of course), first post by me. Just wondering if anyone could help me with this. Considering doing CPL through Jetflite next year. I have hit them with a few questions which they have answered. They "guarantee" 12 months employment on completion on such aircraft as metros or saabs. I recently asked them about wages during that 12 months. Now their replies have stopped. 'What's doing?' If i'm going to be selling everything I have and moving my family to QL to do this I want all the answers first. Can anyone tell me what a new f/o would get in his first year with the likes of M@c@ir or similar and if Jetflite are true to their word. Completing training and then working for the next 12 months on turbo props sounds pretty good.
I know the money won't be fantastic as I am aware i'm starting at the bottom but some idea would help with my decisions. Thanks"

[BallTearer]

Check your PM's buddy

[pilotdude09]

Is this the crowd that costs $80,000+ to do their flight training with?

Looks good, alot of money but if you are guarnteed employment for 12 months after the course but what happens AFTER the 12 months, is it see ya later or can it actually lead to somewhere.

AFAIK they give pilots to skippers?

[captwawa]

from what i hear they give the cadets jobs as metro captains, after the 12months.....

[mudpig]

I have spoken to two previous students there. One is happy still in the 12 months of work and the other didn't seem to over the moon about it stating a couple of people left during the course. Of course nothing is easy and people are gonna leave for various reasons. These may be personal differences, not coping or struggling with the content or just realising its not for them.
What we all have to remember is that success does NOT come easy. Speak to some successful pilots working for the big airlines, they all have stories about hardships while striving for their dream. A friend of mine is an f/o for a big airline and about to move to the left seat. He has some sorry tales of working some real crap jobs during the 90s while trying to get his hours up.
Part of the fee for this training company is an endorsement for an aircraft you'll be flying on your 1st 12 months. Unlikely you'll shift to the left seat at the end unless you prove to be the next Chuck Yeager:=

[8aitch8]

My son did the course when they were called Macflite, he already had his cpl. and had accrued around 700 hours total. The course cost "him" (ha ha cost me and my wife) about $35,000.
The twelve months he spent at M***** was great, pay was award plus the usual allowances. There was no job with them after the 12 months was up and he, like so many others, travelled north to build his hours.
He is now in Queensland flying a twin and loving everything about the job. So is it worth all the expense? Its a lot of money and he could have certainly done it cheaper at his home flying school but that 12 months in the right hand seat of a Metro and the 600 odd turbine hours has to look good in your log book.

Whatever you decide, good luck. There will be sacrifices ahead and the pay in GA is disgusting, but the long term prospects are great!

[jsport5]

Thanks to every one for the replies. Please keep them coming. If anyone knows others that can also provide feedback tell them about this thread. It not only helps me but others considering the same course. For those that don't want to post on the board feel free to private message me.
Thanks again.
Hard work never killed nobody.

[Gary21]

I looked into this program a little while ago and although I was keen my bank manager wasn't... I went on to a normal cpl type course but I'm staying in touch with some of the other applicants.
It's running on the gold coast now and the students mostly go on to metro FO jobs with the parent company J..craft. Quite a few stay with the company after the 12 months go on fly caravans, barons or even the metro in the left seat doing night freight.
If you can get through the upfront cost then go for it - the aviation industry is going well so there's not much risk of ongoing work after the 12 months.

[pilotdude09]

Howdy,

This thread is a really good source of info. I guess when you look at it your getting that multi time which is a fast ticket to a Jet job.

But @ AUD$86,990.00 :eek: Which you have to pay in 31 weeks.

I'd love to do something like that but i couldnt even rely on my parents to help cough up $20,000 every 10 weeks!

Serious Question: How could you possibly pay that much money in 31
weeks?? I spose if your in your mid 20's you might be able to get a loan?


Hahahaha maybe i could start up one of those funds where everyone donates and helps me pay for it :hmm:.............So if anyone is rich and can pay atleast half id love ya!

[jsport5]

Pilotdude,
start asking around at the banks you use already. Dress yourself up in a shirt and tie and ask to speak to the manager. Ask them about student loans for tertiary education and inform them of the payment structure for the course. You should be able to get austudy as well. Be prepared you will end up talking to alot of banks believe me. But when you manage to find one that is prepared to listen to you hit them with everything about the course, what it leads to and what your goals are.
If you are able to squeaze the money out of them make sure that its a loan where you don't start making payments until the course is over and your working.

[pilotdude09]

Thanks Jsport,

Will go do the rounds and see if they can budge, may have to sweeten them up. If they wont lend me 80 grand, wonder if they will lend 40 grand to do the WAAC CPL course?

Cheers for the advice :ok:

[aviationascent]

Hey,

Re: how do you get 80k?

personally i bought a cheap house. i use it as a savings account that i will draw upon when i am ready to go. i am plastering at the moment which although i am not qualified to do, have about 18months experience in, and am making great use of the supply and demand effect in the construction industry in SE QLD. Its paying 39bucks an hour and that works out great for a 44 hour week. Saving atleast a grand a week.

I am finally over half way there and am yet to get my house revalued to release extra equity. so should start beginning of next year IF (and this is a big if...) if casa allow me to hold a licence that won't restrict me from learning. I recently had catheter ablation to fix a heart condition. still a couple of months before i know if i can start asap. in the mean time, i know that i am working a job that i can come back to (if i really have to, worst case scenario of course!!) that will easily allow me to finance hours building.

also, if your not keen on plastering, (not great for the lungs!) go out west to the mines. i have been doing some research myself it is easy to get work without being pre-skilled, worth 100k a year. and i reckon, if you want to learn to fly, you might as well get used to 12 hour days, and living beyond the black stump!!!! (which is out near whoop-whoop)

anyway, hope this post doesn't sound arrogant or like a brag. just some ideas for how to earn decent money without committing yourself to a major educational deviation to become skilled. (ie uni degree or aprenticeship). i had to devise a method to stash money as like most people, i can't rely on my mother, (single-parent) to come up with that kind of money. she is still renting a housing commission house at 58.

good luck, (dedication and bloody minded stubborness to succeed will get us only part of the way i think. being in the right place at the right time is pure chance!

aviationascent:ok:;)

[pilotdude09]

aviationascent,

Unfortuantley i already live in a big ****hole with nothing here!

Heres a point that i want to clarify though to get into the mines, well major ones like Rio Tinto (Pilbara Iron), BHP Billiton or Fortescue Metals Group you need to be skilled or have a mechanical background. Alot of people from the eastern states just turn up here and think they will get a job easily.

Honestly $100k here isnt good money by the time you counter in your living costs you are no better off than you would be working in Perth for a job on 50/60k Everything is double the price, i mean houses are already over the million dollar mark and going up weekly because theres so much demand but not enough supply.:mad:

At the moment im thinking about applying for a job at the gas plant as an operator as in 2 years time i would be earning 120k which id do for a couple of years and get out by then ill be in my mid 20's and ready to try and start a career as a pilot and jetflite would be perfect. Otherwise im thinking about going to uni then training and maybe going to the US or train and hopefully get a job with Air NZ, i guess the piece of paper from uni might help? Should be able to get in as a mature age!

But your advice is good advice! :ok:
But if i was a normal person wanting money, working at K-mart or something will give you more money than some mining jobs, it not all as flashy as it may seem, you either have to have some knowledge or doing a tafe cert, prepared to be a trainee/apprentice or be highly skilled or have a degree.

[bushy]

Good luck to you my friend. I hope you do well. I believe you will.

[aviationascent]

pilotdude09,

its interesting what you say regarding working at mines. i was not so long ago, (ie this week) talking to another member of pprune who is a pilot and works for two mines, in aviation down-time. during our phone conversation he created the impression that there are many unskilled jobs out there that due to the demand for workers, are paying very good money. and as for the cost of houses and living, i am lead to believe that much of the work is fly-in/fly-out ops, plus here in the city, there are plenty of temptations to spend your money on.:E

i take your point about 100k not being very much money for the mines, im sure there are massive wage earners out there doing their thing. my point is, for someone who is unskilled, they could do for example, cleaning, and get paid much more than if they were to do it in the big smoke. i don't know about you but where i stand, unskilled, 24 years old, (feeling the pressure of time to get qualified and build hours!), having worked one ****ty job after another, it would seem like a good path. personally, i am very happy with my current earning capacity, (it kind of happened by accident!:)), and am just about there. i would have begun training already had it not been for the discovery of wolff-parkinson white syndrome by my AME.

as for going to uni, i was (perhaps mis)informed, by an un-named bloke from an un-named school, that trains for a university here in SE QLD, that university degrees are not so important regarding airlines. he suggested perhaps an advanced diploma of management or business management would also look good. the reason he gave was that it is just as important to a prospective-employing airline to be able to efficiently run the aircraft as it is to fly it safely, with regard to both running costs and people management. personally i believe that a degree is really just evidence of your ability to learn/study, and your ability to see commitment through to the end. (like paying for a CPL with necessary ratings, and possibly a type rating isn't proof enough!):rolleyes: im sure many would agree that to have reached a point at which you can apply to an airline for a job, takes a great deal of dedication! all that said, i have certainly not ruled out doing a degree, even if only for the personal satisfaction, something to fall back on and for my own interest. just, i will get trained first. that way, i can perhaps do the degree part time while building hours. for me, time is of the essence and the sooner i can begin building hours, the better. that is why i too am seriously considering jetflite.

by the way, late last year i discovered a company in SE QLD that flies citations which were also offering a 12 month period of guaranteed employment... on the citation as an fo!!!! cost about the same as jetflite from memory. i have forgotten the name, if anyone is aware of them or knows the company name, could you please, please be so kind as to remind me. at the time, i lost interest after hearing the quoted price as at that time i didn't think i would be able to budget for something like that! fortunately things have changed!

anyway, that's my bla!

[pilotdude09]

Sorry my bad forgot about the cleaning and cooking jobs, there is big money in that but who wants to clean **** all day!! i know a 20 year old who is cleaning on the gas rigs bloody good money but he works 3 weeks on 1 week off so never see's anyone or spends his money and he has a **** of a lifestyle.

1 bonus of FIFO is the frequent flyer points, get to gold/plat very quickly :)

But in the end it really comes down to who you know and not what you know or you have to be johnny on the spot, similar to the aviation industry really!

I agree with you about the degree, you would always have something to fall back on and it does look good to employers with regards to commitment. But then i think well theres another 30-40 grand ontop of the 100k+ i need to spend to get my ATPL etc etc.

I think the Jetflite training is good because you know you are going to have something at the end, it may not be permanent after 12 months but you are getting the multi time which for some people is the hardest to get.

decisions decisions decisions........



While we are on the subject i know an engineer who is heading to Northern Africa as a fly in fly out from Perth 2 months on 1.5 months off for $560k a year but i guess by the time you counter in everything it would be worth that much!! Theres money there you just have to find it.

Cheers :ok:

[Mesopause]

There have been some threads recently about another mob who get you trained much quicker with the same outcome.

http://www.ftpilottraining.com/index.html

[pilotdude09]

Anyone know the costing on the Fast track pilot course?

It looks and sounds pretty good.

Sent an email and got a generic response :ugh:

So if anyone knows the cost feel free to PM etc :)


Also....reading their site they make it out that one of their "graduates" got into skippers on the dash with 200 odd hours? or would he have had several hundred more hours behind him.

Cheers

[corowacomet]

pilotdude, think very carefully about the 'Fast Track' pilot training course. It is run out of RACWA at JT and they claim to be able to put you through in 18 weeks from zero hours to CPL. This seems to me to be a very short period of time to allow a vast amount of information to sink in. They do offer some form of placement with kippers but this WILL cost you..........LOTS! That is to say the endorsement will cost far more than it would back on planet earth. This is my opinion only, however there was a thread on the FT training scheme so if you do a search you should be able to dig it up and see what other people think. There are plenty of people out there touting schemes to get you into a jet quicker than anyone else but don't forget you have time on your side and I can tell you if you can save the cash beforehand or work at the same time as you fly coming out the other side with no debt makes life a lot easier. The other aspect of this route is that during your training you will pick up a lot of information about the industry by osmosis and meet some great people who will most probably provide some invaluable guidance along the way.
Anyway you sound as though you have your head screwed on so you should be fine. All the best.
The Comet

[togs737]

I sent an inquiry via their website asking if we could get a CPTN possie in the metro due to pilot shortage :p... They replied saying that we wouldn't have enough command.

It seems like a good cadetship, however the command time part of it isn't to self-motivating, I mean, I'd like to go into a place where I can get the required hours up and then move onto the airlines - not move back into GA. That is, of course, IF I'm good enough for the airlines. :ugh:

Cheers,

Nick

[jsport5]

Togs whom did you send the email to, jetflite or fast track? Getting a command like you were told is highly unlikely. I've managed to speak to a few people who trained with jetflite. They were employed for the 12 months by some regionals and it depends on how you perform and their staffing levels wether you remain with them or not. I have been told of a couple of pilots who did move up to command in a very short time though but this was flying freight.
As far as I'm concerned I really don't care. That 12 months of guaranteed work and building hours on turbo props is invaluabe. If i'm not kept on for whatever reason so be it. I'll go wherever I can to continue flying. Accruing these hours the hard way is what it's all about. This is what employers at the big airlines are looking for, EFFORT and DEDICATION.
Do yourselves a favour and read "Professional Pilot Career Guide" by Robert P. Mark. The book is American but the principles will still be the same.

[togs737]

I sent the email to jetFlite.

Sure the experience is invaluable, however as a personal choice I don't want to go through this particular cadetship.

[mudpig]

Togs, sounds like you just wanna shoot straight up to command, eh?
Airlines aren't going to employ you thats it!
Working for a few years in GA is going to give you a foundation to build
on. You will learn how to really fly a plane in all conditions. Its in GA where you're going to learn how to fly under pressure if something goes wrong.
After you done this airlines may look at you.

[pilotdude09]

The Comet

Thanks mate :ok:

Always good to see someone being 'nice' on this message board :O


Just gotta decide the right path for me and whats going to benefit me the most and not get me too much in debt!

Thanks again!

[OOC]

As the saying goes there are many ways to skin a cat and with all life's choices there are advantages and disdavantages.

I completed my training with this company and overall I was happy with what I received and achieved in the two year period including both the intial CPL training and the invaluable experience as an FO in a regional airline. Don't get me wrong the training can be demanding at times due to the nature of the course however you have a high sense of achievement after the gruelling 12 months. This is not a sausage factory, you are expected to achieve high standards and this requires hard work.

The training school has had problems just like any other flying training organisation and from other experiences it is all part and parcel of GA training. Is there a perfect training school???

Once you jump through all the hoops of CPL, ATPL, MECIR, CRM then the real fun begins at one of there regional airline associates. You fly sector for sector and NO you are not a radio operator. You are paid exactly the same as any other experienced FO so therefore you are expected to operate to at least if not better than this standard. All the Captains are great and you will learn so much in 12 months, especially Multi Crew, IFR procedures in an RPT environment.

The cost is fairly expensive, though if you look at some other options then it stacks up ok. 50K for CPL, ATPL's (Higgins), MECIR in a high performance aircraft. Then 10K for a turbine endorsement like a Metro. Then you need to have a bit in the piggy bank to hit the road and find that elusive first job. Your first job will probably be casual and require a second job to pay the bills. Now 80K for the Jetflite course, don't quote me as it has been 3-4 years now. You get all your training from very experienced instructors, turbine endorsement, ATPL (Higgins) and all flight testing is conducted externally by a very rigourous ATO. Start with regional airline on 36K plus allowances in a structured envrironment.

Life after the 12 months employment! All cadets leave the regional airline as they do not have a High Capacity AOC which could allow upgrades from FO to Captain with such low command time. However I can tell you that a very large majority move to the sister company operating as Captains on the freighter Metros / Conquest or Vans.The majority find work with no major problems.

Command time.........the old age argument. I had less than 100 hrs command after my contract and found it like banging my head against a brick wall finding a job in AUS GA. Things are changing and some airlines are now recognising multi experience without the requirement for multi command. I found my break with a small company in PNG and have not looked back ever since. Chief Pirate now with a fleet of three turbine aircraft and five pilots.I must say the PNG flying is just something else, highly rewarding and the experience from this programme has set a solid / disciplined foundation that is required to operate in a challenging environment like PNG.

Thats my experience and it was called Macflite back then. As I said so many options at the moment in the industry. I certainly have no regrets, but it is very dependent on the state of the industry at the time. 80K could get all the qual's required and a 737 ticket but that is a personal choice. Not that I agree with anyone paying for endorsements.

Safe flying and smooth landings...........don't forget to enjoy the journey, so many of us pilots looking at the destination.

[pilotdude09]

Thanks OOC,

Your journey story is the kind of thing that makes this website great and i think everyone on here has a different one and its good to learn from other peoples mistakes but sounds like youve had a good ride (so to speak) so far.

:ok:

[togs737]

Umm... I don't think you all understood what I said.

I'd love to spend time in GA and love GA! But I said, I wouldn't want to build up F/O time and then move back into GA for command building. It's just a personal choice, I'm not bagging GA, why should I? I'm there right now and thats where I will be for at least the next 5 years of my life.

It's cool however to see how many people jumped on my post just like that. Now I believe people when they tell me there are a lot of PPRUNE'rs that thrive on having a go at others...

ADD: Sorry what I said was a bit slack... There are awesome people on PPRUNE, just the odd .1% that are paying out others.

[jsport5]

Togs, I understand how you might have thought a couple of people jumped on your post. I apologise if my words didn't come across very well. I'm pretty sure mudpig is the same. The thing is (and anyone can smack me down if I'm wrong) when people post about what they want and how quick they want it I look at how old they are:ok:. You have a lot of life left to live so the older guys are gonna tell you to take your time. Older guys like myself can't afford to take our time unfortunately. If you're in GA already thats great and your alot further ahead than me. I have know idea about who you are as a person so I can't comment on you maturity. But over the next five years as a GA pilot your maturity will increase as will your understanding of responsibility no matter how mature or responsible you are now. Dont take this as criticism just a bit of friendly advice.:}
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[togs737]

Not a problem. As I said, I WANT to spend time in GA, just this Jetflite cadetship is not the way I want to spend it - thats all. Again, nor am I bagging out the JetFlite cadetship, that looks really good too.

Apologies for my comment, I really thought you were all trying to have a go at me, but rest assured I wasn't offended, I love talking about aviation and what better place than here!

Kind regards,

Nick

[pilotdude09]

I think the Jetflite and Fast Track courses are a great idea.

By the time im ready i will be early to mid 20's. At this stage im going to go to uni and get a degree then do one of the courses and then i will hopefully be able to get into a small regional whether it be Skippers or similar.

Before someone says "you dont wanna touch Skippers" they fly within WA which i love and would be able to fly to places that i know and would be able to live in WA. Which is where the fast track scheme would be better. Anyway id much rather live in a country town than a city so happy flying regionals for a while!

Anyway my whole point of the post was to say that these schemes are great for the likes of 25-30 year old blokes/gals who have done uni, apprenticeship, traineeships etc who want to go to the airlines. Where as GA is for the guys who want to get alot of experience and take the "longer" and whats most likley the better route then head up this way for work. GA generally seems to take alot longer.

Also another question....Why would Skippers employ someone from Fast track scheme but not the West Aussie Aviation College?

Cheers