Chieftain Stuff

[Brown Cow]

For anyone who knows stuff about Chieftains, I'm just trying to work out some performance stuff. On a 30 degree day at MTOW in nil wind does about 450m sound right for take off distance? (sealed rwy)
Thanks in advance
Cow

[TeeTail]

Hi Brown,

I think you'd better check your charts again.
For your situation specified above:

Piper PA31 Navajo (wing lockers): 915 metres TODR to 50 feet @ SL
Piper PA31 Navajo (no wing lockers): 762 metres TODR to 50 feet @ SL

I haven't flown the Chieftain but wouldn't expect the distances to be less than the Navajo.
450m sounds more like a Light Seminole!

Hope that helps

Cheers

TT

[Brown Cow]

thanks mate, I didn't think my answer sounded right! Cheers

[Bendo]

Cow,

I dusted off the old Cheep-tin manual and for nil wind, SL, 7000lb (MTOW) I get 1950' or about 650m.

[Tiger 77]

I say if you can't get a chieftain off in 450m you're not trying hard enough.

Cheers,

Tiger.

[morno]

I take it you've never flown a fully loaded Chieftain in 40 degree heat then Tiger??

morno

[Duff Shark]

i use to fly chieftains in and out of 700m strips and they were 'tight sphincter' moments if you did not have a good few knots on the nose. Never went out at MTOW , generally stuck to MLW as a max. It depends as all chieftains are are not the same , but they all perform badly :P

[bushy]

450 metres may work in some places, but in a central Australian summer you need to be looking for about 1250 metre strips for fully loaded chieftains,402's etc.
Two of the factors that are common in prangs are bad weather and bad airstrips.
Time spent with the takeoff charts is never wasted.

[tinpis]

It depends as all chieftains are are not the same , but they all perform badly :P
That definitely rings the bell from many years back
Every bloody Chieftan is different. Some were complete bow wows and this was when they were nearly new !
I once took a brand new one to the New Guinea highlands.Compared to a 402 it was a total dog until up until well into the climb
Be wary

[MikeJulietHotel]

Watched a Chieftain with a few blokes and full tanks take off from 1300m of seal a few weeks ago. It took him at least 900m to get it off the ground. Then it didn't want to climb. I believe that he had an acute interest in the trees near the upwind threshold.

450m was a long lost dream for that a/c and the day was better than ISA.

MJH

[flyby_kiwi]

Just about everyone is as different as the next especially with so mod's avaliable for them.
Would have thought the 1040 would go alright tho i base that on no real knowledge of the thing other that it having a couple of PT6's(?)

[Brown Cow]

Thanks everyone for the good info. I'm just about to start a new job on cheiftains with out much previous experience on type, so any other tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Cow

[BrazDriver]

Chieftain Tip,

When you put pax in the last row, it blows the COG rearward so fast it isnt funny! Make sure you have plenty up front before using that seat!

[tinpis]

If there is still such a thing as a nose locker key lock, lock it with the key everytime.

[Shanty]

beware the right hand front seat passenger doesn`t nudge the fuel crossfeed to give you a bit of engine out practice.

Happened near Century a little while ago.

[tinpis]

If you get a gentle roll on lowering full flap on final
You have a broken rear spar :}

[OpsNormal]

And if you get a really big roll to one side after putting flap out, you've got a flap assymetry problem which may well take all of your available aileron to counter. There is a story I have heard about that happening, from memory right here in Oz.

[Jose Cuervo]

When approaching base, runway 11 in Darwin don't move the "condition levers" to low idle :=

[forgetabowdit]

Anyone ever seen a Navajo go in and out of a 512m strip... I have... :E Murray Island... never saw how many on board, and i believe it was STOL kitted, but none the less! Jeezus! Never liked the first 500 feet from take off in a pa31... never felt... quite right

Forgetabowdit

[Shanty]

Murray is 650 metres

Darnley is 505

It was a blue/green navajo

He goes to both

dunno about Mabuiaug

wouldn`t put it past him

[Shanty]

WHOOPs

inside outside

bin meant 560 m

[forgetabowdit]

meh its been a while since i was up in the strait, but i saw it at both mae and dni

[tinpis]

Shanty are you talking about a Navajo 310 or a Chieftan?

They may look the same but they are chalk and cheese performance wise.

[Shanty]

talking 310

flew PNL for some time on mail runs. It was a great shortfielder. 100 kg lighter than other company PA31`s. First of type in PNG, (PNP & PNL from memory) you may have flown it

The other bloke that honks around NQ and South Asia is what you would call an "expert user" Bin doin it since about 74.

[tinpis]

Didnt fly PNL or PNP but Sharpie wot comes on here Im sure did in the early 70s in PNG :ok:
A Navajo 310 I flew comes to mind is PVL.....

(Which I note must have died as it is now a PA-28 :( )

[iceblock]

1. Don't fly it from the right seat for "fun" unless you KNOW it has brakes on that side.

2. Only push non perishables / unfrozens up the front of the wing lockers, it gets quite warm up there, and always loop the ropes well when loading, it will save time at the other end!

3. If you hit the start button and only hear a winneing (spelling) noise with no prop turn, you have a starter problem. Get a heavy spanner etc.. and give the starter motor a good whack. Located through front air intakes. Maybe not accessable with cowls on, on one side with counter rotating props?

4. If gear is selected down and one main indicates not locked down "green". Do a fly by and confrim it looks down. Probably then just not quite snapped into place with mechanical lock. Option then is to just before touch down force gear handle fully down and hold in position until you are parked and secured. This will ensure hydraulics keep pumping which should overcome the force of the ground on touch down. Very reliable source that one, but not on board at time to test theory!

5. Always leave a "phantom" 20L in each aux. (yes I know I will get berated for that comment)

[tinpis]

Paste Smiley stickers over fuel gauges

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/Abtl.gif

[flying-spike]

If you have an engine failure with the gear already up, still select it up. If the handle resets to the up-neutral position you have enough pressure to get the gear down when you need it. If not, you make have a crook hydraulic pump and will need to prepare for a manual extention. Not checking this resulted in a rather spectacular assymetric go-around at Mt. Isa several years back (rooster tail of dirt behind the a/c as it went around)

[Sprite]

"4. If gear is selected down and one main indicates not locked down "green". Do a fly by and confrim it looks down. Probably then just not quite snapped into place with mechanical lock. Option then is to just before touch down force gear handle fully down and hold in position until you are parked and secured. This will ensure hydraulics keep pumping which should overcome the force of the ground on touch down. Very reliable source that one, but not on board at time to test theory!"

Also...check if its a globe out. The light globes are interchangeable with those on a post light. Simply unscrew post light and gear light, swap globe and reinsert. Cheaper and quicker than holding while you get the emergency services out, and don't say it can't be done inflight because it is quicker and easier than it sounds!

[bushy]

You should select gear down before starting the first engine. If the handle returns to centre after engine start then you know that pump is ok.When you shut the engines down, you check the other pump by keeping the engine running until you have selected gear down and seen the handle return to centre.
The bloke who flew the aeroplane before you should heve done that, but if you are unsure you can start an engine, check the pump and shut it down again while you check the other one. Some manuals require this.
How many times have you seen a Cheiftain taxi out with the flipper doors open? The flipper doors close when you check a pump.