2 questions - photic sneeze and 'best' licence

[Mr.B]

Hi all, I have searched for these questions but
(for the sneezing thing) I couldn't find anything in Rotorheads, and
the licence question - I couldn't find anything recent that seemed to help.Apologies if I missed them - as a mod on another forum, I do always search before asking. Anyway, the questions...

1. Photic Sneeze Reflex - I sneeze when I go into bright sunlight. Usually just one or two sneezes. It affects about 1 in 4 people apparently. I'm wondering if it's a particular problem for a rotary pilot. I know that fixed wing pilots can take their hands off the controls, sneeze, pick their specs up off the floor, stretch & yawn etc no problem ;) but is the photic sneeze response a problem for rotary pilots? Y'see, I'm wanting to get a CPL(H), which brings me to...

2. I've been working my a**e off for years, have saved money, had a bit of good luck, am selling possessions, have packed in my job (I needed a change anyway) and am now looking at training full time for a CPL(H). I'm starting from scratch - no PPL of any sort, just a couple of trial lessons (which I loved, and it seems I have a natural gift for hovering, which is nice). I'm an old guy (43), but I'm figuring I have to try. I'm willing to go anywhere in the world to train. I'm not asking about the best schools (I'm sure there are good & bad everywhere) or what are the chances of finding work. Instead, I'm asking - in my position, which authority would you go for? JAA? FAA? CASA? New Zealand? South Africa? I'm currently favouring New Zealand, to get trained in more demanding conditions (mountains etc) - I'm sure it will be more gruelling but I'm hoping that will give me a better chance finding work. Having got a CPL(H) I'll be prepared to work anywhere in the world (except places where I'll be shot down!).

If you think I have no chance (left it too late?) I'll still do my PPL, and then I'll decide whether I want to risk the extra pension money on a CPL.

I hope this isn't winding anyone up. this is annoying. I know it's pretty close to the "what are my chances of finding work" questions. I do already understand the chances are unpredictable but it will certainly be difficult. I just wondered if there's a consensus about any particular licence that would give me the best chance.

BTW, I'm off to Australia in a few weeks (visiting friends & travelling - Brisbane / Sydney etc), so I'd be interested if you can recommend any schools for me to visit. Might even have time to go to NZ too, as I'll be down under for 7 weeks.

Thanks in advance to everyone who doesn't flame me, and my apologies to everyone who does. :)

[Whirlygig]

The best licence to get is the one where you want to work or, more importantly, where you are entitled to work! You'd need to consider visa implications as well as work availability.

As for the sneezing; once you have adjusted to the bright light, I take the sneezing stops? Initially, your instructor will take control but there comes a point in your flying when you're not confident enough to take a limb off the controls (without building yourself up to it!) and you won't have a friendly instructor to take control.

Failing that, take clean microphone socks with you!!! :yuk:

Cheers

Whirls

[Mr.B]

Yep, one or two sneezes and that's it. It's never caused me any problems on a motorbike. But clean microphone socks - I'll just make a quick note of that. :D


Hmmm, Visa regs. I'm a UK national, so I presume that entitles me to fly in Europe. I'll have to check NZ.

[bigglesbutler]

I have alergies to house dust and chocolate, oh yes the universe has a very poor sense of humour. And I sneeze relatively frequently, especially when something like engine fumes tickle my nose. It hasn't been a problem, and in a two crew environment is fine. When I was flying single pilot on my training courses I was fine. The only thing I would suggest is talk to an AME (Aero Medical Examiner) and see what they say.

As for which license like whirlygig suggest it depends on where you want to or can work. You could possibly kill two birds with one stone, like I did and go to Bristow Academy, formely HAI. And do an integrated JAA/FAA course, giving you a license for the two biggest authorities. Between those two you can get a validation or a brief upgrade to almost any country in the world.

Your never two old, your only as old as the woman you feel, er I mean how old you feel :ok:

Hope that helps

Si

[Speedbird48]

Mr. B,

I was once allergic to everything from Cats to Crumpet, (not the eating kind!!) and as time when on things changed and I can even visit England again in haymaking season without dying!! As time goes by the body changes so don't worry about it. Also worrying about it may be one of the problems?? I would say nothing to the medical examiner until you have had a certificate for some time. 13,00hrs ago the UK (RAF) medical examiner tried to sink me on the initial.

As for your license, get the one that can be used in the most places. The integrated course that will earn you a US/JAA one would give you chances in most parts of the world other than those where residence issues arise.

Along with the others I would like to wish you all the luck in the world, go for it!!

Speedbird 48.

[Mr.B]

Thanks all.

I was looking at Bristows earlier this year. I decided on Oz/NZ because I know more people there, and figured I'd combine my training with an opportunity to visit (and for some reason I've never really been interested in visiting Florida - no offence to any Florida fans). But if the joint JAA/FAA route is the best option, then it looks like it might be Florida (and Bristows) after all.

And it sounds like the sneezing thing isn't an issue. In fact, it could be an opportunity. If 1 in 4 rotary pilots are sneezers, maybe there should be wiper blades on the inside of the screens. Hmmm, I feel an invention coming on...

[NickLappos]

Mr. B,

Let me suggest one thing - once you have settled in your mind that the "photic sneeze" issue is not a problem, never ever never mention it again to anyone, ever never. The ability of a mere mortal to have a doctor/examiner pass judgment on your ability to safely fly when the issue has no clear guidelines is nil. Limbo means no-fly limbo.

The people who raise a borderline medical issue and then sit on the borderline are regretful, sometimes forever. I know of military pilots who had to leave the service, and civil pilots who were grounded for years due to non-issues where the flight surgeon couldn't in good conscience sign, because not signing bears no penalty (for him), and signing means accepting responsibility.

In my world, the flight surgeon co-signed my paycheck. The simpler and happier I kept him, the happier I was.

[Mr.B]

:eek:

"Photic sneeze reflex"? Now that I think about it, I've never actually heard of it, and most certainly I've never experienced it myself.

[hihover]

Mr B,

That is sound advice from Nick Lappos and I am very pleased to hear that you ailment has gone.

Sadly, I do believe you may have missed the boat for a "normal" helicopter career so you might wish to stack things in your own favour. If I were you, I would visit Bristow and sound them out, ie. if you do their course at their academy followed by their IR training and turn up as a fully qualified and useable 45 year-old, would they employ you?

Sure, it's a difficult question to answer with any certainty but it might just give you the answer you need.

I believe that now is a good time to become a helicopter pilot, probably the best in years, but you have to consider your contemporaries who will be 20 years younger than you, so box clever.

If you want to fly for Bristow, speak to them. If you want to fly for someone else in the UK and you have the money, you may even wish to consider a course in the UK from start to finish (Integrated). Stack it all in your favour.

Australia is a great country, but going there to learn a skill you then want to use in UK is not, IMHO, stacking things in your favour.

I wish you the very best of luck with this very gutsy move.

tam

[Mr.B]

Thanks Tam,
yep, I do indeed intend to talk to Bristow directly (left them a message earlier today), and I'm looking at other big employers too. I'm not necessarily thinking of doing my professional flying in the UK, although I recognise that North Sea seems to be the most promising place to start. And you're right - I'll be going up against young whippersnappers :) so it won't be easy. I know I can sell advantages of me being an older guy, but then I'll just have to see if the "maturity" card will trump the advantages of employing a younger pilot.

Thanks for your honesty. I don't know about it being gutsy, but I have to admit it's a tough decision, and a bit of a leap of faith. The work that has earned me the money has turned into a good career, and it would be easy to just continue that and try to retire early. But I just can't stand the thought of doing it for the rest of my working life. I've wanted to fly for ages, but could never get the money until now. So I feel like I have to try, even though I'd be going from earning good money to (possibly) earning relatively little. But plenty of other people have had the guts to do it, so I just need to see if I have the same.

But I'll have to find the right balance between determination and folly. If Bristow / other places tell me that they'd be unlikely to employ me, then my other options aren't too bad. And I can always just get my PPL and fly for pleasure.

This is starting to sound like I'm feeling sorry for myself, which I'm certainly not. I'm in a position that many people would love to be in (apart from being an old fart), and I recognise that I'm lucky to even be able to consider the option. I'll give it my best shot unless the companiess tell me I'd be wasting my money.

Thanks to you all for your help. I salute you all. :)

[w_ocker]

g'day mate,
I've got the sunlight-sneeze thingy. Apart from it being a bit annoying and hilarious to my girlfriend it has posed no prob for flying. BTW I've flown military, NVG, IFR, low level, GA EMS, firebombing etc so you should be fine on that count. I've never mentioned it and I agree that, unless you se it as a problem (in which case I would say it is your duty to bring it to someone's attention), dont mention it again.

Good luck ... AAAAAAAAHHH- CHEW! (and I live in sunny Australia... sniff):{

[Mr.B]

G'day (I'm trying to learn the language, ready for my visit in 20 days time). :)

W_ocker, you're exactly the person I was hoping for - an experienced rotary pilot who says it hasn't been a problem for them. I was sure it wouldn't be for me - it happens so rarely that none of my mates have even noticed it. Thanks for the encouragement.

Here's a beer voucher, in case you're in Brisbane / Sydney between 22nd August & 7th October - drop me a line & and claim your free beer. (And if you're happy for me to pick your brains about flying down under, I'll buy you a few more beers too.)

*beer voucher*

In fact, what the hell? A beer voucher for each of you guys.

Thanks
Jerry

[FairWeatherFlyer]

I have tree pollen hayfever and a mild version of what you're describing. It only affects me when i inspect main rotor and am looking up at vast expanse of sky and even that's rare. Get some cool looking sunglasses is my advice.

[hihover]

Beer Vouchers....hmmmm, I think you will be a great helicopter pilot. Please send the vouchers by mail.

[windowseatplease]

Don't mention the sneeze thing to the CAA medical people. I guarantee you will regret it.

[r44raven]

Having lurked around this forum for a good long while a topic has come up that I can actually contribute to ! I heard a discussion of the Photic sneeze reflex on BBC Radio 4 (so it must be true). The two things I remember are:- if you are prone to this, you can't fly fast jets for Uncle Sam. Secondly, the reflex can be suppressed by biting the area just below the bottom lip which, apparently, acts on the nerves which produce the sneeze, in some way.

Anyway, squawking 7000 and back to lurk mode


steve

[Mr Toad]

Whirlygig is right.

The difficulty is not in learning to fly (my local low-cost airline sez "now everyone can fly"); it's in selecting the market in which you can get a visa to work with a low time logbook. Nowadays most countries you might find attractive prefer their own nationals; and even Europe has these problems.

Furthermore take note: a UK or an FAA or a CASA licence don't give you the right to a validation anywhere you please; the fixed wing world is less picky at the moment due to their huge undersupply of pilots. By the very nature of helicopter operations our market is more limited. However a JAR or an ICAO licence are a good start.

Try to build up a network of contacts around the world (yes, Prune too) to keep up with opportunities/snags.

Go for it - you'll never regret it.

[Mr.B]

I've finally managed to speak to a key person within one of the big employers (the main man in charge of flight crew), and he said that my age wouldn't rule me out. But I'd have to bear in mind that I'd be up against candidates 15-20 years younger than me, so my other aviation experience will have to be strong enough to tip the balance in my favour. (He was in a rush, so I don't think he registered the fact that I'm starting from scratch, even though I did tell him.)

He basically said that they wouldn't consider anyone who didn't have an IR, but age in itself wouldn't rule someone out. However, I'm guessing that the combination of age and being a newbie would rule me out. :(

So I have a few more companies to speak to, when people are back from holiday etc. Not looking promising so far, but we'll see what the others say.

Thanks everyone. You latecomers - you missed out on beer vouchers. But hey, if it works out and I end up flying helos for a living, I'll probably go a little crazy and buy beers for all of you guys. :)

[borjaracing]

Hi Mr. B,

Eventhough the guys have already answered your question, I´d like to give you my personal view. I have the sneezing problem too, but never got in my flight path. Bitting your bottom lip helps out sometimes, other than that it only takes me 2 seconds to straighten up my musscles and sneeze away, without making any unwanted inputs on the controls. I guess if you are in IMC, 50 feet AGL, just over your DA, in a deep fog on freezing conditions, the sneeze thing could pose a momentary problem. Anyhow, if you find yourself in these conditions, you either have another pilot sitting next to you or you shouldn´t be there on the first place.

Regarding the down-under adventure. I´m spanish and went down to NZ some four years ago. I got my CPL and an instructor rating, since I was lucky enough to get a work visa and do some teaching for the school I learnt with. Now I´m back in Spain, I´m on my mid thirties and working for a good employer. It might sound easy but as nearly everything that matters, it has not been. When I got here I discovered that my CPL licence and 300+ hours only gave me right to a PPL-H within JAA regulations (the rule had changed 4 o 5 times since I left). I had to redo all 12 theory exams again. It was not difficult but only a pain in the a**e. The practical test was sweet. Having trained in such a difficult enviroment as the kiwi, doing circuits and straight autos into a 7 metre-wide runway it was almost an insult :ugh:. This is one of the stupid things JAA will come up with.

Bottom line: I don´t think age is a problem, at least doesn´t mean a win/loose situation by itself. As you´ve probably figured out, its a sum of factors, being at the right time, in the right place and knowing the right person... If I were you I´d do my PPL while you´re in oz (this is an unbelievable country to fly over) and you can get your JAA PPL back in the UK. I know a couple of guys whome have done exactly that. After that, how hard you try and how lucky you get will clarify your doubts about going professional and getting a job.

By the way, don´t expect to become a richman in this world. You will be poorer than you are now, but only on the bank account... :ok:

Safe flying!

borjaracing

[gusmagoo]

OMG! This could have been me 12 months ago talking! i'm in a very similar situation to you Mr B., although 38, not 43, and i ain't giving my job up just yet. (i've been strongly advised not too, yet...) However, for what its worth, i've been researching for a year on the whole subject and am glad to be hearing some of the same conclusions that i was led too.
JAA/FAA gives most options and even factoring in the living costs can save you a fortune. (HAI or similar) Though you really need the licence for the countries you can work in (ie probably any one of the 26/7 JAA member states) If you PM me i'll tell you all about it on the phone, it would take me months to type it! I've learnt a lot from others apparent mistakes.
I've done about 45 hours R22 and hope to complete my ppl before christmas, time money and weather permitting! (i fly once a week when i can) Then i'll be considering my options... 15 years left to do in a shift orientated job with a two thirds pension at 54 is a HUGE sacrifice for a mid life career change so i'm battling with my concience (fire service too, which isn't the worst thing i could be doing)... I do love the flying though, so it might just have to be the "very expensive hobby" route for me. IR's cost a fortune and there are various time limits to consider if you don't have a lot of experience you could be burning your cash... I get the impression being an instructor for a few years is becoming an accepted practice, though it is also true to say it's not what you know, it's who you know! Meeting people and getting known seems to be very important if you want to get on... Forget about the sneeze thing, infact, what am i talking about, who mentioned sneezing!:cool: ps. if any of my info is wrong let me appologise in advance, really just personal conclusions gathered over 12 months digging... whatever you do, enjoy it, and dont stare at the bank statments too long, you may just start weeping...:(

[Web Ferret]

I'm thinking of doing something similar - Keep us posted Mr B