Jet* new starts - AWA

[Boss]

Just wondering if there are any new starts for Jet* who have been offered an AWA and have managed to negotiate an EBA based package?

[zed583]

Just received my AWA in the mail. As far as I know you sign it and hand it back, end of story. Talked with a few mates at J* on the EBA and the T&C's are virtually identical, but I am sure there are a few little daggers buried in there. I will be interested to see if the proposed increases in the EBA are handed across to those on the AWA. If not , well, have wings will travel!!

[Sue Ridgepipe]

but I am sure there are a few little daggers buried in there

Well if it was me I think I'd be having someeone check it out for me before I signed so there are no nasty surprises later on.:eek:

[Razor]

ZED
I hope you aren't that naive when it comes to flying.
Maybe you deserve each other

[zed583]

Razor,

been in this game for 20yrs and worked under awa's for 12 years. Far from being naive i think i have seen just about every little trick they like to slip through. in truth i go into this with the attitude that they might do the right thing, especially in the current climate, but quite prepared for the fact that they may not. If not then i have options, as do many of the guys working there, and i will use them.

[Doctor Smith]

been in this game for 20yrs and worked under awa's for 12 years. Far from being naive i think i have seen just about every little trick they like to slip through. in truth i go into this with the attitude that they might do the right thing, especially in the current climate, but quite prepared for the fact that they may not. If not then i have options, as do many of the guys working there, and i will use them.

Gosh, you are naive Zed.:hmm:

[KRUSTY 34]

Jesus Zed!

Did you at least ask them why an AWA instead of the EBA that your established colleques are on?

The long climb back will be difficult enough without people like you standing there greasing the pole.

[ITCZ]

Well, he is being honest, and he is not the only pilot out there that thinks that way. Lets not grind him into the ground Pprune style :ouch:

zed583, you say you have been under AWA for 12 years now -- but this might be the first time you worked for a large corporation under an AWA. Just an assumption, I may be wrong.

I have worked under AWA, and I have been right at the coalface trying to resolve disputes between pilot colleagues and our employer under the WorkChoices system. I have had a pretty serious look into AWA v other forms of agreements, and I have come to an unambiguous position.....

.... unless you are either employed by a government agency where your basic terms and conditions are protected by the Public Service Act, or you are a high value individual selected to operate at senior management level (not simply an experienced line pilot), all the data, all the evidence, all the research is against AWA.

AWA are agreements that first and foremost un-level the playing field. Their whole reason for being is to alter the power relationship between company and employee. They diminish your rights, dignity, and access to the law.

Some on this forum may be starting to get a little tired of hearing from me on this issue. So I will leave it to you to read my posts on AWA on other JQ threads.

You're a big lad, you make up your own mind, but please have a read first.

[Angle of Attack]

I wouldnt worry either way once Howard is voted out in the next few months AWA's are going to be scrapped anyway. What I find worrying though is the attitude that "what Negotiation?" I can get by with an AWA, hmm it shows lack of knowledge of previous injustices workers have faced, and these noobs thinking everything will be ok. One can think I can tell you AWA's may look fine initially but damn everyone with commonsense realises they have no future, and this is why Howard is Gooonnneee! with a capital G! So we shouldnt argue just vote !

By the way increases in the EBA are NOT brought across in AWA thats exactly why the hell your on a different contract! fool!! Youve been in the industry 20 years woopedy doo who gives a f$ck? You can still be a tool! And thats exactly what your looking like!

[call button]

Interestingly, the woman from the workplace authority that is on the tv ads all the time was interviewed on the radio yesterday.

She said the authority had received 23,000 (yes 23,000!) calls last week (yes in one week!) from both employers and employees regarding workchoices and AWA's.

Must be a great system with such confusion out there!

[Break Right]

She said the authority had received 23,000 (yes 23,000!) calls last week (yes in one week!) from both employers and employees regarding workchoices and AWA's.
Must be a great system with such confusion out there!
That's because of the labour government and unions advertising their false propaganda. 23,000 enquiries don't even count for 1-2% of the work force, so not really a bad number. Don't think for one minute that the labour government will change anything within 3 years of being in power. AWA's will be here to stay.:uhoh:
My tip if Labour get in power is lower your debt levels ASAP and watch them screw things up again:mad:

[toolish]

Remember if you sign an AWA now it will continue regardless of which party is elected later this year.:sad:

[newsensation]

Get the AFAP to be your negotiator! you might have a chance of getting the conditions of the EBA... what's the JPC doing?? :ugh:

[DutchRoll]

Ah, Break Right, so refeshing to hear from someone with so little understanding about how the world and Australia's economies are inter-linked! One would think that every time there is a conservative Government anywhere, economies flourish, and under liberal (small "l") Governments they suffer. Which is of course historical bull$hit, as economies are far more complex than this. And if you've been holding very high debt levels over the last year or two and not trying to do anything about it, you're an idiot.

By the way, scrapping AWAs doesn't mean you can't be employed on contracts, and it doesn't mean you can't get above-award wages. A little gem on a blog recently was from an AWA supporter proudly proclaiming that he'd "been on an individual contract for years with much better conditions than the award", to which I replied that it was great that he was supporting the fact that prior to AWAs and Workchoices, there was nothing ever stopping this from happening! Silence ensued.

As ITCZ stated, AWAs are there to un-level the playing field. Their best part is how they can give the illusion of being better off by putting slightly more cash in your pocket, while stripping away large chunks of associated employment conditions which do not become obvious until later.

[Break Right]

Dutch do think a Labor government will change anything in the labour market with such a booming economy?:ouch:

Nothing wrong with high levels of debt (good debt) as long as you can service it. Yes my economical knowledge may well not be as high as yours but you ask any small or large business what they have experienced from a Labor government in the past and it won't be very complimentary. Not just my opinion.:sad:

I certainly don't support AWA's for our industry, we have relatively small numbers compared to other industries and Eba's are our only protection. If you believe a Labor government will abolish AWA's and have the ability to control our booming economy good luck to you, we live in exciting times and time will tell I guess.:ok:

Anyway way off topic, politics and economics belong to those subjects that could be debated for ever!!!:O

[zed583]

Guy's when i sai "what negotiation" i meant they are not negotiating. Of coarse I asked the question , Why? and what were my options. Can you guess what they were?
Of coarse an EBA is superior, but why have I been presented with this?, JPC, AIPA hello!!!anybody home!!

[Reeltime]

The government keeps trotting out the mining industry as an example of how advantagous AWAs can be....of course the most bullish industry in the country, with unique characteristics, such as it's generally located in remote areas. Naturally there is big money to made there now.

As for such broken down industries like aviation, with one boom to every five busts, it's not quite the same.

Exactly who is a pilot supposed to negotiate with, no one 'dummy' it's take it or leave it. And there is nothing 'individual' about it, just a hundred or so identical contacts, and no union to negotiate with, Whoopee!

AWAs are there to break down hard fought for terms and conditions,and who loves em? Dixon, Joyce, Godfrey....

Do I have to say anymore? :ugh:

[Scorpio69]

Not with Jet* and not as a pilot so slightly off topic, but I have just been offered employment under an EBA.

I have said no thanks I would prefer to be under an AWA or individual contract and further more, my labour costs about 15 per cent higher than the EBA offers and they have said yes. Four weeks leave, four weeks notice, etc etc.

I have been on AWA for years and I love them, they give me the ability to negotiate what is right for me, they are not a one-size-fits-all solution.

[Icarus2001]

Good for you scorpio but that is not the experience of pilots/cc/engineers on AWA's employed in the aviation sector in Australia. There is NO negotiation. Sign it if you want to work here.
The Labor (not Labour) party policy is to offer TRANSITION arrangements so that those on AWA's can opt to transfer back to another agreement...EBA/CA/Award....bring it on.:D