PPL Hour Building/Renewing in America

[samuelwmartin]

Hi All,

I want to renew my license with a few hours flying and a couple of exams (inc skills test) in America.

FYI - I completed my PPL 5 years ago and haven't flown since...(November 2001).

So - I want somewhere DECENT in Florida (preferably) that has very decent aircraft, decent examiners and won't put me through a skills test that would be any easier than one in the UK. I want to work for it and be confident that when I get back to the UK I can fly here comfortably and confidently with the few hours and exams I have behind me.

I don't want somewhere that has arrogant instructors, poorly maintained a/c and a "care more about the money than the student" attitude.

I also don't want to know about accommodation standards - I doubt I'll stay in flight school accommodation anyway. Just simple flying/instruction and A/C condition.

Can anyone recommend anywhere or am I just dreaming?!

Thanks,

Sam M

[Capt_SlackBladder]

I did my JAA PPL at Orlando Flight Training and it was pretty good. I had an excellent Norwegian instructor and my examiner was a very experienced pilot from Wales. I have nothing to compare it to but I don't think he did a skills test that was any easier than you'd get in the UK. I'm in a similar situation with my PPL having lapsed. What is required to renew it?

Why don't you just renew it over here? It'll save all the trouble with Visas and travel. I don't know how much flying you'll need to do to get your PPL revalidated but if it's not more than 10 hours or so I doubt you'll save much money by going to America to do it.

[samuelwmartin]

Been to Orlando Flight Training - will never go there again! Ever!

There are no set hours - just bringing yourself back up to standard, which shouldn't be too much.

And if you're doing 10 hours, of course it'll be beneficial to do it in America - £170 an hour here, or £50 an hour there...hmmm!!

And then once you've done that, and had your skills test - just come back here and go to a flight school and have a check out with an instructor.

Also you don't need visas to train for a PPL - so the only thing is the 8 hours flight - but if you really enjoy going to America and can make it into a holiday too - then why not! (that's what I'm doing)

[Capt_SlackBladder]

Well it's up to you. I don't know what OFT did that was so terrible. I got my PPL there in 3 weeks including all the ground exams. My flying was totally up to scratch when I got back to the UK. One quick check flight and I was good to go.

Regarding Visas, you need an M-1 student Visa even for a PPL. I was told this by the U.S. Embassy in London so that is what I did. That was in 2003 and somehow I don't think security has relaxed very much since then. You can go over on a tourist Visa and just turn up at a flight school but if you get caught undertaking flying training it will be a Visa violation and that will probably be your last trip to America. (If you do intend taking this route, and I wouldn't, then do not tell the customs officer at the U.S airport what you intend doing)

This is from OFT’s web site:

‘All Non-US Citizens are required to hold an M-1 Visa to enter the United States to begin flight training. In order for us to process your Visa paperwork, we have an online application that must be completed.
Once we receive your online application and course deposit, our Visa department will begin processing your I-20 application. We will send the required application and paperwork to you via UPS within 5-10 business days. After you receive the I-20 application, you may contact the U.S. Embassy in your country and schedule your Visa interview. Visa approval times vary from country to country but most can complete the whole process in less than 30 days.
The current cost of processing the visa is $275, which does not include the fee charged by the U.S. Embassy.’

http://www.flyoft.com/m1visa.php (http://www.flyoft.com/m1visa.php)

[B2N2]

FYI - I completed my PPL 5 years ago and haven't flown since...(November 2001).
So you wish to renew your JAA PPL?
You can do your training anywhere, just need to do the skills test with a JAA examiner.
BTW it is not training towards the issuance of a US license or rating, it is recurrency training or flying for pleasure.
Therefore no M-1 visa required.


HOWEVER, if the examiner is not an employee of the school, he will not be on their insurance.
You have therefore have to be pilot in command.
PIC of a US registered aircraft means at least a student pilot certificate and medical.
You will need a solo endorsement to rent the airplane.
This solo endorsement goes on the back of a student pilot certficate.
So you need training towards at least a student pilot certificate, that falls under the visa requirements.

See that things get a little complicated?

[Vone Rotate]

I went through the M1 visa application process recently and I'm pretty sure you don't need a visa for hour building but as soon as you receive instruction you fall into the student category and need the visa and TSA clearance.

If it was me I'd do it here. Flights £350, room for a week around £150, 's say 10 hours at £70 for a/c and instructor £700 plus skill test fee the probably 2 hours for a check out ride with a UK school. The visa is a pain hanging around the embassy for a day and you need to get finger printed for the TSA and pay around £300 for the both

Or find a local school 10 hours at £130 plus skills test for less money and a lot lot less effort.:ugh:

I know I'll think twice before taking the USA route again thats for sure.....
Things are not always as they first seem!!!

[B2N2]

I'm pretty sure you don't need a visa for hour building
You don't, you are right.
However this is not strictly hour building only.
without a valid PPL you can't go the route of conversion to a US "restricted" license.
In oredr to fly with a passenger (eg examiner) you need to be PIC.
In order to be PIC you need a certificate, at least a student pilot certificate.
For this you'll need training towards a certificate. He presto, need a visa.
Not the coolest thing, but hey nothing we can do about it. Sorry.


EDIT...brainwave.
If you can find a JAA examiner who is also a FAA CFI who is willing to be PIC of the flight you could do it.
He will have to give you the required training to proficiency and after the last flight sign off your renewal.
No training for a US certificate..no visa.

[samuelwmartin]

A friend of mine is instructing out there, so I will probably train with him.

I was told you don't need a visa to train for a PPL. It's for a hobby, not a commerical course such as the CPL or ATPL.

Plus the below doesn't sound complicated. You're basically just saying that I need to train to get a student certificate to fly solo in the US - which I will do anyway. I only want to get up to the standard I was before, which should be 10 hours max. Money's not a huge object here and as long as I'm confident to fly, I don't mind how long it takes.

Just as long as I have decent weather, etc, a good instructor, and can do my skills test back here and pass, I'll be happy.

[Capt_SlackBladder]

You do need a Visa to train for a PPL. I was told this by staff at the U.S Embassy in London. If you are receiving instruction then you need an M1 Visa.

If money isn't an object then why don't you just get training and do the skills test here? Then you can go to the US and hourbuild if you're really intent on going there. You won't require a Visa as you won't be under instruction.

[Hufty]

Do it here - you will save yourself a LOAD of hassle - in the good old days going to the US made sense, now with the security nonsense, visa, TSA, fingerprints etc. you're made to feel like a criminal than a customer of the US tourist industry. For a long course I would do it but not for a few hours - it will be the same price by the time you include all the costs and being the summer here you'll get it all flown off in a few days if you go to a school that can organise itself!
I am pretty sure like others have said that you need a visa.
The visa involves expense, a long wait and a trip to London for your "interview". AFAIK the school you go to needs also to be TSA approved so even if you do get through immigration without them finding out you're undertaking flying training, then most schools won't be able to teach you - unless they don't know the rules and just do it anyway. if you do a search for TSA, there is a lot of information out there....I wouldn't bother....it will take longer to wait for a visa interview than it will to get the flying done here!

[MrHorgy]

AFAIK the school you go to needs also to be TSA approved

That's correct. The school will need to support your application for the M1 VISA.

I went through all this to finish my PPL out in the states in Novemeber 05 and it didn't seem THAT much hassle, I filled out a form, pitched up at the embassy (take a few decent mags, might be a wait) and was out within the hour, but maybe I was lucky.

Horgy

[samuelwmartin]

The Visa here isn't the issue! I only live a ten minute walk from the US Embassy in Central London!

It's just which school, what the instruction is like and whether to do a skills test here or there....

Money IS of importance, but not so much as in I don't mind doing a few extra hours over there...doing three hours over there for the price of one here is always good in my books!

[Hufty]

From memory, isn't the 5 year period since you did your PPL significant? I had a similar problem when I let my (CAA) PPL lapse - it had been over 5 years and I had to write to the CAA to get a breakdown of what I had to do. It wasn't just a simple case of a revalidation. Not sure if it applies under JAR though. In the end I didn't bother - I was going to go commercial anyway so it was cheaper to do some practice, sit a skills test for an get an FAA PPL and use that to complete my hour building. Pre 9/11 though.

I went to European Flight Training for my CPL - it was OK - standards in the US are generally lower than those in the UK so don't be surprised by grubby aeroplanes etc. Instruction was fine though....the guys who run the place are very business-like and they run a tight ship.

[symac]

I maybe wrong but as i understand it you only need a student visa if you are completing more then 18.5 hours a week. You would only do that many hours if you were training on a full time course, so if you are only doing a few hours then you can go in on a green card.

Please correct me if I am wrong as I am off to do a few hours training in CA in a couple of weeks and have been told I dont need one.

Sy

[davey147]

If you've got a green card you dont need any visa.

[symac]

Sorry I didn't mean a green card I meant just a tourist waiver. Can anyone tell me if I am right? I have been checking the US embassy website but it is a maze or information so I can't find what I am looking for! I'm sure it 18.5 hours a week before you need a M1.

Sy:confused: