Nationwide Pilots Association?

[Intheslot]

Just a question that I would like to throw at the flying fraternity- why do the Nationwide pilots accept the fact that they have zero representation in terms of working conditions or salaries etc? I know they fly the same routes, aircraft and pax around the sky, so why do they accept this autocratic dominance when they are the reason that the airline is succeeding?

[planecrazi]

The same belief as flying for Milosovic-you could get get fired or fired upon!

[The Ant]

I believe that the pilot's have tried!!
Though one also has to question how they manage to keep flying aircraft without passenger emergency oxygen systems????
(The BAC 1-11's).
They are continuously given a deferment by the CAA on this issue, this allows them to operate sub standard aircraft and risk passenger's lives all the time.
I understand that the B737's are up to spec.

[This message has been edited by The Ant (edited 10 August 2000).]

[The Guvnor]

Simple Ant - old Vermin has "excellent" contacts within the CAA and other parts of the government.

Ginzntonix and fat plain brown envelopes all round at the Inanda Club! Cheers!!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Charles Glass]

Come on Ant

You know that if you are not at SAA or Comair, then Nationwide is the next best thing. If that means no Pilot's Association and BAC 1-11's, that is that.

Also, although the BAC's have been temporarily excempted from the O2 requirement, and although they are old, they have not had an accident, unlike complying 747's and A320's. Also, what is the bigger risk: No O2 or Themba McClain and his clan?

Guv, Vernon has come up with a phasing out schedule for the BAC's and it seems that he is ahead of his own schedule. This is why the CAA granted the excemption for a limited period.

I don't work for one of the big 3 (yet), but if Nationwide offers me a job I will gladly accept.

BTW Ant, how was Wildebeest? :)

[Intheslot]

My question had nothing to do with Bac1-11 or Fluffy's. Stop harping on the fact that V.B. is getting away with the Bac's. He has entered the "big league" now with the Fluff's(he owns 5 I believe) so get over it!!!! I believe pilots to be intelligent, capable and educated people, and they should be remunerated with that in mind. If I quote some of the numbers that I have heard thrown around then those guys are flying for R100k a year less that there contemparies. Why??? Don't they rate themselves in the same bracket as they rest or are they just so thankful to have job that eating **** is part of there daily diet??

[Yossarian]

I have wondered about the same question in the past. Why would pilots be prepared to fly for a pittance and have no representation as a body at management level? Perhaps it is a sign of the times in SA aviation circles that pilots are that desparate to have a jet job that they accept these conditions. I have also heard that they have tried a pilots representative body in the past, but gave it up under pressure from upper-management. It seems to me that the leaders are there, but as always when the crunch comes and threats are made, they are left standing alone. Sounds familiar to me. Unless the group stands together nothing will ever be achieved against the autocratic style of management Nationwide displays.

[The Ant]

Despite not having a Nationwide pilot's association, the pilot's at Nationwide are still entitled to be members of ALPA-SA. This will at least give them some sort of protection should there be an incident, as well access to all the information that Alpa have. (Though the recent article in SA Flyer magazine was rather scathing!!!!)
But apathy is still the biggest problem, even with the large pilot's associations. People always want protection when it comes down to the crunch, but until that actually happens, no one is prepared to do any work or stand together!

[Wiz]

Scathing... well yes i s'pose so. Still not a complete condemnation. We'll see if ALPA can emerge from this with some reputation left. They probably can.

[Intheslot]

You guys are obviously pro ALPA. It is now exactly 1 year since Sunair did it's thing, why don't you ask those guys how much ALPA helped them. Net mooi ------!!!

[tired]

SA-ALPA

South African Airways Line Pilot's Assocciation........

[Wiz]

I'm not pro ALPA. They've done squat for me. Still we need something *like* ALPA to stand up for their members. ALPA's well placed to do this sort of thing even if their record isn't squeaky clean at the moment.