Aer Lingus DECs for new Aldergrove base

[minuteman]

Just heard this news coming from the NIO...
Aer Lingus look like they will be crewing the Aldergrove base with Direct Entry Captains and co-pilots - a big recruitment drive north of the border is on the cards!
Having tallked to one of the recruitment specialists apparently the contracts will be nothing like the lads in Dublin are on - especially the pension - and the contractors will be operating into and out of LHR on existing EI slots.
Don't know how this is going to go down with IALPA - as far as I know they have pretty tight restrictions on who operates the green machines into and out of LHR.
The announcement is due pretty soon - wonder how this will affect the share price?

[Judge Whyte]

Looks like the flag carrier is discriminating against the Northern citizens.

[Bearcat]

Direct entry Captains? dream on.

[chec tunset]

DEC's in EI ? Much as that prospect would cheer up a great many people up in BFS, it won't happen. There are guys in Dublin who have waited 8 years for a command. You really think their union is going to let that happen? There's probably even enough of them from the North to crew BFS anyway.

[PhoenixRising]

Not a chance. Good rumour though..

[Blinkz]

There is also a bunch of people in the Aer Lingus holding pool, so if they were going to recruit anyone then it will be easier and quicker to just take them from the pool!

[potkettleblack]

Ha ha. If they tried this on then it would be an all out strike and the pilots will bring the company to its knees until it sees sense. Nice one.

[Count von Altibar]

I doubt very much that IALPA will let this happen but then EI could always set up another business that would make it a different entity and outside of IALPA's influence. It's highly unlikely that the Aer Lingus management will miss the opportunity to get the pilots in their first new base outside of the republic on reduced T&Cs. I hope they don't but all will be revealed in time...

[Blinkz]

I think setting up another business just to have a new base in Northern Ireland is a little extreme! I'm sure it will just be another base, same as the other bases they have.

[CaptKremin]

I doubt very much that IALPA will let this happen but then EI could always set up another business that would make it a different entity and outside of IALPA's influence.
If they aren't on the Aer Lingus seniority list they aren't Aer Lingus pilots. If Aer Lingus wants to set up another airline - fine. Just as long as they don't try calling it 'Aer Lingus'.
They've had subsidiary airlines before - e.g. Futura. Wholly owned by Aer Lingus, employed non-Aer Lingus pilots, no problem.

But would Aer Lingus management seriously want to devalue the Brand by dropping the name? What would the share-holders think!

[MarkD]

What about a GB-style armslength franchise? Possible?

[Count von Altibar]

Exactly MarkD, it's possible in this changing aviation world. In the early nineties most pilots at Aer Lingus reckoned that Ryanair would be gone within a couple of years, look at them now, the biggest airline in Europe. Last year FR caused a stir by making an aggressive attempt to take control at EI which for the time being has been suppressed. Take a look around, it's uncertain times over ownership at Iberia, Alitalia, bmi and the list could go on and on. Iberia have clickair, bmi have bmibaby, BA have GB as a franchise, why not a subsidiary for Aer Lingus? After all, if based in NI the pilots would be paid in Sterling presumably? If there is a threat to T&Cs then IALPA should oppose it vehemently but it could get nasty in my opinion.

[kriskross]

A bit like EZY have done in Madrid then????

[minuteman]

The only people who are staying tight-lipped about the base and the recruitment of pilots are EI themselves - wouldn't be the craziest idea they have thought of - how tightly crewed is EI anyway?

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
Plenty of Norn Iron pilots in Aer Lingus,who'd love to go back to the Province/Occupied Six Counties at the first chance, without having to rough it in a real low-cost airline...wonder how much pressure the Govt put EI under to go there? Apart from the pilots, what about mechs and cabin crews? Can't move the 'Buses without them.Probably local hire-ins...
regards
TDD

[Flame]

Yippeeee.......another reason for a strike at EI, and I thought we were running out of reasons!!!:ugh::ugh:

[CaptKremin]

How many reasons do you have for enjoying it up the jacksie?
Dozens, I'm sure. :E

[Torycanyon]

So, are EI opening a base at BFS or not ?
Any more info?

[jamesmur1]

Here's a link to RTE news:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0805/aerlingus.html

So it looks like Aer Lingus will be setting up a base at Aldergrove!

[Callsign Kilo]

Yes - Allegedly x 3 A320s. To re-open the BFS-LHR route dropped by BA and then BMI a few years back. Existing EI slots to be used.

Plus 6 European destinations. I am told these will be routes mostly already operated by either EasyJet or Jet2. A bit of head to head competition. Over 100 jobs to be created. I think it will be announed officially tomorrow.

[airbus-commander]

BD dropped Belfast - Heathrow? Hmm if it was dropped then why is there 8 flights a day each way and two nightstoppers? :}

[Callsign Kilo]

Yes BD did drop BFS-LHR to concentrate solely on it's operation from BHD. I believe this is the service you refer to?

[airbus-commander]

Yes, but the way you conveyed the message, you implied BD dropped BFS - LON. That's all im saying, nothing was mentioned about different switching the airport of in which mainline operates from!!! :mad:

[Direct to...]

There is a lot going on that we minions are not privy to.

[Count von Altibar]

Maybe bmi should do the LHR-SNN. It's a shame that the folks there are shafted as a result of this announcement.

[CarbHeatIn]

The folks there have been shafting the rest of the operation since the 60s with their SNN stopover which in turn restricted EI's US operation to 4 Gateways.

[Stand31]

Don't care where we fly to - an airport is an airport. What is important is that it is done by pilots on the seniority list. LHR-SNN is work that is done by pilots on the seniority list. If Mannion wants to bring pilots in on yellow pack contracts to operate BFS-LHR; that's a breach of the scope agreement.

Either the pilots in BFS have to be on the same T&C's as Dublin (which Mannion said they won't be 'local market rates...:uhoh:) or we will have to have to rigorously enforce the scope agreement.

[Flame]

Yippeeeee... another strike....:ugh::ugh:

[Foxyflyer]

Sadly, I do not know what you are all talking about :confused::eek::sad:

[st patrick]

Foxyflyer - Dont worry, judging by your location this wont affect you, but it will affect all of us who currently and indeed in the future fly those lovely green airplanes with the Shamrock on the tail ! To orrow a phrase from Big Ian himself - IALPA says NO!!!:*:=

[CamelhAir]

So Flame what're your credentials? If you don't fly with the shamrock, this has nothing to do with you.
Nor me for that matter, I just wish the boys in blue across the ramp had the cojones to even talk about action.
Good luck lads, if you lose this one it's the final nail in the coffin of aviation in Ireland as a career.

[Flame]

CamelhAir..I am not sure that credentials have a lot to do with this, and I do not fly with EI.

What I see here is a commercial company making commercial decisions which will benefit the company and shareholders. Whether anyone likes it or not, these are the facts. Aer Lingus, having been brought public, must make its own way and survive. If the CEO can reduce costs and increase profitability, then he will be doing his job.

The outcry west of the Shannon at losing the SNN-LHR link will make no difference to management at EI, the days of the "Flag carrier" with a social conscience went down the tube the day the government decided to sell Aer Lingus

There is mistaken belief that "Aer Lingus" is loved by the Irish people....maybe in the 20 or 30 years ago, not so now I am afraid.

The Irish travelling public are fed up with various industrial action at airports in Ireland, if its not DAA staff, its taxi men, if its not Taxi men, its baggage loaders, if its not Baggage loaders, its flight crew!!!!!

I firmly believe that industrial action of any sort should be the very very last weapon to be used, but watch this space, the unions will use it as soon as they can..... and to hell with everyone

[Blinkz]

Well its official! Aer Lingus website now has vacancies at Belfast for Direct Entry Captains and First Officers!!

[jonjoe]

Under what terms and conditions though??????
I'd Check that with them before applying.
No entry to seniority list, different pension, different pay scale, etc
Be clear about it. It's a Belfast base only. No chance to progress to long haul, F/O's will stay in RHS until a command slot becomes available in Belfast.

[Fly4Fun]

What about the pay?
What's the average take home at Aer Lingus for a Captain?

[Blinkz]

I'm not applying. I'm surprised they are even advertising! I very much doubt the rest of the company and IALPA are going to let this happen.....

[CarbHeatIn]

It'll be interesting to see the reaction of guys with 8 years Airbus experience in DUB when guys with 1000 hours turboprop come straight in as Captains.

I'm sure there are plenty of Flybe guys interested

[Blinkz]

Well I have to say that I'm slightly miffed, I'm in the hold pool with Aer Lingus and its looking like they are not going to be use us for Belfast (altho that might be a good thing, if the rumours about T&Cs are true), and that they are just going to hire fresh people.....

[curser]

Flame, differentiate between the moving of Heathrow service from Shannon to Belfast and the proposed yellow packing of flight crew at the new Belfast base. Ialpa are not going to enter into a strike on a whim, however put simply we can not allow Pilots to fly our aircraft on reduced T&C with no seniority agreement and without representation. This goes to the heart of our collective agreements and at a stroke removes Aer Lingus from those airlines with whom you can make a career.

Fly4fun, I could give you the specifics but what would be the point. The proposed new hire pilots in Belfast will not receive anything like those figures nor would the Pilots in Dublin remain on them for long.

This is an attempt at a Union bust.

[jonjoe]

It"ll be just as interesting to see the reaction of those guys in Bfs when they realise a Dub skipper earns twice as much to fly a green airbus!

[snipes]

This is an attempt at a Union bust.


The only astute comment in this thread....this is going to be the test bed.

[minuteman]

Well now that the cat is out of the bag....is the agenda the SNN problem or EI's perceived IALPA problem?

DECs really put it up to IALPA...what's the response going to be?

[jonjoe]

To enforce existing collective work practice and job security agreements, I would suggest?

[curser]

see you at 6 j.j.

[Blinkz]

Can someone explain this to me as I don't really understand? Why do AL want to hire DECs? They know it will make all the pilots mad, since there are so many FOs wanting command, as well as having lots of people in the hold pool for FOs, why select more? I don't get it :confused:

Is it a PR stunt? are they just trying to cut costs with lower T&Cs for the Belfast crews?

[jonjoe]

separate base = new contracts
new contracts = new t+c's
much lower pay scales
different pension, etc
not on seniority list with all other AL pilots
= Yellow Pack pilots

[CaptKremin]

Flame (suitable name) let me explain something bloody obvious to you.

If Aer Lingus removes its SNN-LHR service the public and business community may decide to exercise their LEGAL right to stop travelling with Aer Lingus on all routes.

Equally;

If Aer Lingus attacks its Pilots by discriminating against them in the hiring process for the Belfast base they are free to exercise their LEGAL right to withdraw their labour on all routes.

As a 'Free Marketeer' I'm surprised you don't understand the system better - everyone has rights and obligations in a business environment. One party breaks their obligation - they can expect commercial consequences. Whats wrong with that? Its the system you favour.

[Bad Robot]

Yellow Pack Pilots??? :confused:

The Basic is not that good looking on the PJN site compared to other Bus operators.
It will be interesting to see what the new T's & C's will be.

BR.

[CaptKremin]

OFFICIAL: Aer Lingus pilots on strike from midnight Tuesday next - mandatory notice precludes earlier action.

[curser]

Bad robot, Yellow pack means something which is less expensive due to its "generic yellow pack" than an identical branded product. It is a term often used in this part of the world in IR issues.

[chec tunset]

Well they're not going to find many 'yellow pack' pilots in BFS. I'm sure they will get plenty of applications but at the end of the day they will need to pay standard UK bus salaries if they want bus pilots. BFS is no cheaper to live in than Dub these days. The only airbus rated guys in BFS are BMI and MYT. I'll wager that quite a few of them get as much as an EI DUB skipper. EZY crews aren't exactly on the breadline either although their ancilliary benefits are poor. Perhaps they secretly want a load of Q400 guys.

[Blinkz]

Well AL have a holding pool full of people so I don't see why they don't use them for Belfast instead of recruiting again?:confused:

[curser]

Saddler, its about maintaining our T&C's. Its about ensuring Belfast new hires are protected by the same contracts as their Dublin colleagues. Its about maintaining a solidarity that has served us so well in the past.

You will hear the besieged manion camp tell you its grotesque and that every multinational hires on local contracts but the trouble with that analogy is that staff hired overseas work overseas. Our office moves and therefore it is not only conceivable but inevitable that eventually Dublin flights will originate from these proposed low cost bases.

In this cynical time please don't look in our direction for ulterior motives.

[Lee Frost]

How much of the fleet is going to be out? And are they wet leasing to take care of the affected passengers? Sounds quite sudden - will they find the capacity in that time...?

[jonjoe]

100%; probably try; not likely.