Hijacked MAS flight MH 653 on 4th December 1977

[Hassan Bok]

Hi guys,

Now that the Jet Airways Recruitment in Malaysia has been closed, I would like to start this one to commemorate the tragic events leading to this incident and the equally sad events that followed.
Wooblah, Sireh, MAStake, MASsenger and others who do remember the incident kindy contribute ...this is the 30th anniversary. The posts in the Jet Airways Recruitment in Malaysia thread did bring out info concerning this event which was hushed up. That post WAS NOT HIJACKED; CommanderRiker did get some good contacts which should be useful to him and I hope he keeps us posted on his exploratory trip to India. MORE IMPORTANTLY he was PRE-WARNED about the hazards of dealing with the shady, sly but highly questionable bloke who tried to dupe Jet Airways wannabees with his promise of personal contacts and fast tracking.

So guys, keep it coming.

[Tongkat Ali]

Hi all,
I wasn't in MAS then but read about it in the papers. Later in the MAS SEP classes we heard audio playback of the CVR of that flight. It was scary. I really feel for the families of the victims. Years later as I was a copilot, I heard about the sad events that happened to the skipper's widow being conned by bhai..it was so shocking that the creep could stoop so low!:ugh:

[kamarulhitam]

Ya, it was scary.Especially the part where the F/O pleaded " Please don't shoot! " or similar. I could feel goose bumps and achill throughout my body. Maybe with more info we can truly learn a lot from this incident. So more info please!

[ssangyongs]

perhaps somebody could step up and rewrite the entry on wikipedia about the doomed flight. Not many people outside aviation circles know exactly what happened. If we wanted to go public and reopen this story, some SB will come to our place and get us detained under ISA. this forum will be a good place for us to start.

wooby last post on the doomed jet airways recruitment should be reposted here.

[bfd777]

Good thread.Would be nice for true story to see the light of day.
http://aviation-safety.net/photos/aircraft/19771204-0-P-d-1-500.jpg

http://www.mbceo.com/science/more_information.php?c=Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_653

[Sireh]

Wow bfd, that is a wonderful picture and link but the story in the link about Japanese accent and the Japanese hijacker is utter baloney. However the picture really make me well up and sent shivers down my spine. Oh how many times had I thumped the poor beauty down KUL ( Subang ) runways 15/33 and the few times I managed by fluke to grease her down onto runways 04/22 PEN, 02/20 BKI etc; what nostalgia.
Oh, post accident emotions ran high. Ya Kamarulzaman was engaged to be married and it really was Babu's wedding anniversary. All kinds of tribute poured in and months later we were helping families of lost colleagues come to terms with the tragedy.

[bfd777]

Kudos to the original photographer.

I didn't intend to illuminate the true story. The link merely provides the popular story for those who have not heard about the tragic events. Others have posted much more insighful information.
Regards

[bakutteh]

Cheers, Sireh. You must really like Babu, your user name is the stuff he chewed day in and day out. Those crimson red lips with the beard, what a sight! Babu was a consummate pilot and eventhough he was a foreigner, we all accepted him as one of us and regaled at his jokes and card tricks. The night stops with him in PEN and the joyous times sampling the food near Chowrasta were sure great memories. Despite his wifey's misgivings he even learn to enjoy bahkut teh! Yum, yum! We lost a good man, but alas I was also a lowly F/O then finding my footing and I wished I could have done more, especially knowing how his poor family was misled regarding the insurance.

[Tongkat Ali]

I have some relatives working in the SB and UTK and they do confirm most of Hassan Bok's account in th thread, Jet Airways Recruitment in Malaysia. So go to that thread and read it up. It is nice that this thread is started now that this is the 30th anniverary and Malaysia is turning 50! Malaysia Boleh!:D

[Barney Rock]

Just a curious visitor new to this SEAsian thing; what is SB and UTK? I remember in another life with an Asian carrier this incident was related to me by an ex-MAS skipper and had led to some innovative anti-hijack procedures! It's not prudent to outline those procedures but they were highly innovative. However in this post 911 aviation world they migh have become archaic.

[Paishinel]

Barney, SB means Special Branch , the much feared special secret investigation and interrogation unit of the police department. Any visit by the SB truly sparks fear to the average person and political and social dissidents are known to be the whipping boys and lab rats of this unit. SB can be loosely compared to MI6 or FBI. The UTK stands for Unit Tindakan Khas, literally the Special Action Unit akin to the special forces or SWAT teams. They are usually deployed in hostage taking situations, hijackings or even extreme riot control in conjunction with the Police Field Force.

[ikan_terbang]

This eposide would make a good DISCOVERY channel documentary.
The only HIJACk that involved in both pilots being shot dead.

[Mat Tongkang]

Discovery will still have to toe the official line and come up with something like the Jap Red Army nonsense, otherwise they will be banned from Bolehland and taken off the air.
I understand that initially the families of the victims had problems with insurance claims but later the finance ministry stepped in whereafter the claims were settled. Of course I believe the quantum was less than they deserved but enough to make it no longer finacially viable to contest further.

[taufupok]

One of the most heartening act of the Hussein Onn administration then was to invite a Jewish rabbi to administer the last rites to a Jewish passenger amongst the victim. He joined the Muslim imams, Buddhist, Taoist, Catholic priests as well as ministers from the other Christian denominations in the ceremony as all the victims' remains were interned at a mass grave since no intact bodies were found. It was really a very forward looking and wise move, much appreciated by sensible Malaysians except for the narrow minded bigots who later mounted the infamous ayatollah coup de'tat almost 2 decades later. Despite this great gesture few amongst the foreign mainstream media pick on its virtue.

Before MAS fell into the clutches of the pseudo religious bigots, the people there were very tolerant and amiable to the sensible expat pilots except the overbearing tyrants. Babu was well liked and treated as a close family member in MAS flight operations. We certainly lost a good friend and the loss was made worse when it was later revealed that that his family was betrayed and scammed by one of our fellows. I know I may get banned from this thread, but we should all treat that piece of work like a pariah to be shunned at all cost. In that way we can all be true to the memory of good old Babu.

[bakutteh]

Those who are still with MAS can probably visit the MAS library and request for the newpaper cuttings in the archives. Of course the paper will have the official line but the post accident reports on how the families coped with their grieve will give you an idea of the sentiments then. There was a profile on Babu and Kamarulzaman as well as the cabin crew as well.
The mass burial was covered at length, and yes there was a rabbi in attendance.

[JaguhDunia]

Hi all,
Had talk with a retired reporter who said there were 2 other theories regarding this hijack.
1) Some Cuban dissidents hijacked the aircraft because the embassador
from Cuba was on board.
2) Vietnamese militants took hold of the aircraft after Singapore detained
3 of their compatriots following the hijack of Air Vietnam DC3.
So MAS veterans, have any idea how far these possible theories go?

[bakutteh]

Today being double 8 date, a year from the supposedly auspicious 8/8/8 should be a good day to remember our fallen colleagues. To the young uns in MAS, if you care to ask around, you will probably find veterans willing to fill you in on this tragic flight.

The gallant crew members were,

Technical aircrew :

Captain G K Ganjoor ( aka Babu )
F/O Kamarulzaman Jalil

Cabin crew :
Sharifah
Sidah Syed Mohammad
Azian Borhanuddin
Karim Tahir
Onn Jaafar

Of course not forgetting the innocent ones amongst the esteemed passengers who chose air travel with our then fledging flag carrier.
Though tragic, we honour their place in Malaysian history.

[Raj Merlion]

Hi bakutteh, Sireh, Hassan and like minded ones, I think you're wasting your time. The MAS crowd are too busy with their mundane lives to bother about this event. Maybe their former PM was right when he lamented that " melayu senang lupa ". You guys are probably contemporaries and good friends of the poor fallen crew and cherish the memories. The rest just shrug off the whole thing and some might even had been guilty of cheering on that perpetrator of shame on his conquest. Sad. Sigh!:{:ugh:

[Brianigham]

:)Maybe not so Raj.
There are some of us who have gained a lot of knowledge from this thread.
We can empathize, after all we are pilots as well.
I am too far down the line, to have had the honor of knowing, or knowing of our late colleagues.
I was around though, to experience a little bit of the other person featured here.
Since reading this post I have even got that date and flight number repeating in my head.
I have called a few friends up and talked about it. I know who the crew was now, and I have even observed a moment of silence in respect and in honor of our late colleagues.
Thank you early ones for enlightening us.

[ikan_terbang]

Thanks for the updates.
I shall remember this as a milestone in MAS history.
The fallen heroes are remembered.

[Geragau]

MAS Oldtimers, most of us only heard of it fleetingly. In the SEP classes nowadays, there isn't much on this incident. Looks like there will be some very uncomfortable questions arising due to this thread. Like Brian, I did have some experience of the one you referred to as a kondeyless snake...he really badmouthed the cina to the melayus and vice versa. Wonder what he condemned about Geragaus! Why do you old timers still hang around such specimen?

[Raj Merlion]

Great for you newbies and middlebies. This tragedy brought out the best in most people and the worst in some people. Like taufoo mentioned, religious differences were cast aside and all the right people were in place to minister to the departed. A shining gesture by the government in a nation in grieve. The sad part was that it was an isolated spark in a sea of gloom. About that nasty shameless one, well I ask myself the same thing; why do sane, rightminded peiple want to associate with such a pariah? Pack and herd mentality? Maybe, correction, probably!

[taufupok]

I wonder if the company has any plans to commemorate this tragic event. In conjunction with Malaysia's 50th birthday, it would be great to remember our fallen colleagues in a nice way.

[Paishinel]

Taufu, I don't think anything big is on the cards. Probably a small commemoration and a little bit of a curved ball rehash of the incident in the papers. It would be great if MAPA can take out an ad in the local papers for in memoriam notice for the fallen crew. Maybe we all can chip in a little dough for it.

[Mat Tongkang]

I had a glimpse of a post by a certain Rock that some special anti hijack procedures came about after this sad tragedy. Somehow that post disappeared. Was there such sensitive info that caused that post to be removed? Much can be learnt from this acident even though it was 30 years ago.

[Ali Sadikin]

During my time in MH, there were certain procedures taught during SEP classes on dealing with hijack situations. These all came about after the Tanjong Kupang tragedy. I am not sure if they are airline specific.....I don't see other carriers using them; at least the last 2 that I have flown with.

The impact forces of this tragedy must have been similar to the Silk Air one some years ago...

[ikan_terbang]

MAS is giant snowball rolling downhill towards the drain. Nothing will stop this roller. The momentum is just too great. Guyz get ready to swim as AA will makan this MAS in a few years.

[chintanmanis]

Great suggestion Paishinel. MAPA should take out an ad notice in memoriam for the fallen ones. I am happy to chip in. Better still, someone get zurai to get his handlers to foot the bill! Mapa had wasted my past contribution taking out congratulatory messages for the pariah kondehless creep when he licked arse for latukship...SO JUST DON'T SQUANDER this golden chance to get it right! Cheers.

[ngapsayot]

Ali...during your stint in MAS the SEP dept was mainly staffed by contemporaries of the crew on the tragic flight. As such much passion and work was involved in promulgating those said procedures. Now most have either retired or left for greener pastures. It's been 30 years and after the camel's putsh, most things aren't the same anymore. As far as I know only the M'sian DCA and the local SB/UTK were conversant with the procedures; so applicable only in Malaysian jurisdiction. Outside of Malaysia, nobody knows or cares about those procedures.

[Raj Merlion]

Paishinel & chintan, count me in if you guys are going ahead with any in memoriam notices.:)

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

If you guys are really interested in the aforementioned procedures I am pretty sure you can find it in the F-27 SEP orange manual. Not sure if it was in the 732 SEP manual.

Tango on,

Wooblah.

[Hassan Bok]

Wooblah, I don't think the newbies and middlebies ( as someone called them ) have seen or even been aware of those manuals. The SEP dept. might still retain some of those manuals but I am not too hopeful that they are still available for research.

[kamarulhitam]

Malaysia's 50th birthday bash has come and gone but nothing from the company about commemorating this tragic flight. Well out of sight out of mind; those with fond memories might want to do so your own way.

[Sireh]

Sigh, probably trek over to Kebun Teh myself to pay my respects my friends on 04Dec; no point waiting for any of the present mob running the show to initiate anything. Anybody care to join in?

[bungacengkeh]

Sireh, it's an old story. Just do your honourable part quietly and be happy.

[JaguhDunia]

Well we have 3 months to go, so there is still time for the management and gomen to do something. I am sure NST and the Star will have some feature article rehashing the very tired official line. So sit, wait and see.

[WiraMelayu]

Bunga...that's pretty callous and typical of talibanised melayus. So pergi " main jauh jauh " and be happy in your sorry little world. MAS and the fallen crew definitely deserve better.

[bakutteh]

Sireh, Wira and like minded Malays, Syabas...welcome to the world of enlightened true Malysians. I salute you guys. As for bunga, Wira couldn't have said better. " Pergi main jauh, jauh " indeed.

[taufupok]

Wira & bakut...well said! There is certainly a glimmer of hope yet.

[Fair.Pilot]

Bunga didn't sound that harsh, did he?

[Brianigham]

I agree. When we take "extreme" stances and give people "extreme" labels, we are none the better.
Point to ponder for all of us, myself included.

[Raj Merlion]

Aha...political correctness at play, gentlemen? Bunga's previous posts elsewhere and the " tone "...sarcastic at best. The wise ones can see through that!

[hydrop]

I've read the DCA official report regarding this accident a few years ago. It contains the scary CVR transcript. The pilots were shot at point blank and bleed to death while still pleading....:{

Anyway the report is still available at the NUS central library.
Title: Aircraft accident report 1/78 : Boeing 737 9M-MBD report 1/78, accident near Gelang Patah, Negeri Johor on 4th Dec, 1977 / Chief Inspector of Accidents, Civil Aviation Department, Malaysia.
Imprint Kuala Lumpur : Government Printing Dept., 1978.
Call #: TL553.5 Aic

http://linc.nus.edu.sg:2084/search/cTL553.5+Aic/ctl++553.5+aic/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CE/frameset&FF=ctl++553.5+aic&1%2C1%2C

[Geragau]

As for the Tanjung Kupang tragedy, I am sure MAPA members can get the EXCO to do something meaningful. It is inconceivable that they can waste money lauding a ****ty latukship for pariah gstringh but no contribution for a commemoration. Do the right things, guys!:ugh:

[Mat Tongkang]

Hi, do you sincerely expect the bunch of self centred, miserly and overrated clowns running MAS and MAPA to do the right thing? They will conspire and connive to screw you blokes whenever they can to bring you guys back to " coolie " working conditions; but to do the right thing? Get real!

[WiraMelayu]

Looks like most MAS pilots like to consign this as " nasib lah "...won't happen to me kind of apathetic attitude. Pretty sad, and they wonder why things are so screwed up!

[MAS Guy]

MAPA is actually Malaysia Plantation Acc.

That is why the act like farmers. EH! actually worse than farmers. Mapa is almost like Nato = No Action, Talk Only.

No one have balls to actually talk to the management. Only Kipas2

[OKhalsa]

Farmers waiting for handouts from the " gomen " ? Ya, a bit like that...ex gratias may just be it!!

[jandakotcruiser]

I was with MAS in the 90's and I do remember the SEP procedures in hijack situations. As I understand it they applied only to Malaysian registered aircrafts. It would really be nice if the M'sian government and MAS come up with some meaningful commemoration for this tragic event.

[kamarulhitam]

I had a glimpse of a post indicating that such procedures no longer apply after 911 by someone from SEL...I wonder why that post was removed. It mentioned of similar procedures promulgated in Korean Air. The post looked innocent enough, I don't see why the poster would retract it or the moderators saw it fit to bin it. Strange!

[taufupok]

Might have been deemed unwise to post safety & security procedures in an open forum.

[Mat Tongkang]

Jandakotcruiser, welcome back to SEA. Yea, the SEP classes in the 80's & 90's were interesting. I hope most of the old manuals and handouts remain in the archives; will venture to the training school to dig it out from the " keepers " there.

[ngapsayot]

Any MAS insiders have any clue if there is any meaningful commemoration of this tragedy to remember out previous fallen colleagues?

[Tmbstory]

I was in Corporate Aviation in this region when the tragedy happened. A bad time for Malaysian Aviation & the Malaysian Country.

It is hoped that the Relevant Authorities pay tribute to the people who lost their lives in this tragedy on the appropriate date.

[Geragau]

One month to anniversary...any more useful and nice to know info from contemporaries of the crew of the tragic flight?
Anyone initiating a collection to take out an " in memoriam " in the papers?

[ngapsayot]

Wait and see. Heard from someone that nstp will run a commemoration page or two.

[Raj Merlion]

Wira is right on the money; it's the " nasib lah '' attitude leading to apathy and malaise. There were many good SEP procedures which came about after this tragedy; however they need to be revised and tailored to meet current needs in the wake of 911. As someone mentioned earlier, most of the contemporaries of the crew of the tragic flight have left MAS or retired and so there aren't many around to keep the lessons learnt current.

[WiraMelayu]

My take on this; well there will be some passing mention in the major papers. Any meaningful commemoration? Maybe a respectful visit to Kebun Teh by the Transport Minister, MAS officials and colleagues of the fallen crew.

[Paishinel]

Trolling thru the web pages of tanahair papers but no sign of any meaningful mention, let alone commemoration of this tragic flight. Out of sight, out of mind?

[Mat Tongkang]

Saw some post in another forum about something organised to commemorate this incident; anybody with info or news on this?

[ngapsayot]

Dead and long forgotten. Soon will this thread be!

[Geragau]

Where is Sireh...how's the trek down to Kebun Teh?

[MasMamak]

Out of tanahair for a long time; was there anything done for this occasion?

[Mat Tongkang]

Heard that there was some insignificant news article but nothing much. Long forgotten and buried!

[paulh6582]

hi ,
i am trying to gather some information about this flight as my grandfather was one of the pasengers killed ( thomas parr ( uk)
i have read some of the posts and there is speculation about what happened, i m not interested in that ,im just trying to find out about a memorial that was erected after the crash , we (my family ) only found out about the memorial today via the internet as we were very young when it happend
i see that some of the people posted here were friends with the crew , i would like to ask if anyone has any photos or knows the exact location of the memorial so we can see it , any information is gratefully accepted .
its also nice to see from the posts that even after 30 years some have not forgot their friends who were killed

if anyone has any info my email is [email protected]
thanks for reading this post


paul

[Sireh]

Paul, please refer to your newly posted thread.

[SunnyBoy]

I seem to know more about the MAS hijacking than is written sofar.

[Oz_TB10]

SunnyBoy,

Our ears are ready to listen!

Thanks,

Oz

[SunnyBoy]

The answer is really government sensitive and I suspect trouble if not handled with care.

[smiling monkey]

The answer is really government sensitive and I suspect trouble if not handled with care.

If you're not going to tell us, then why even bother mentioning it in the first place? :rolleyes:

[SunnyBoy]

You are right Smoking Monkey.

[MaintainYourHeading]

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear you had relatives in the accident.

Following is a link to the Wickipedia article about the crash, with the exact location of the memorial and some pictures.

Regards.

Julien

[Hassan Bok]

Heard on the golf course....Babu's exacting retribution in the KLSE; the pariah bai might have lost his pants in the current plunge. Looks like the karma thingy does have its working.........hope there won't be a fatwa on belief in this karma philosophy!

It has been a good 31 years since this tragedy and the aviation community in bolehland has scant regard for the victims, judging from the general lack of interest in commemorating the 30th anniversary last year.

I believe Sireh's was a pretty lonely on his trek to Kebun Teh last December. As consolation, maybe he managed to locate Kak Odah's superb laksa at Majidi!

[Mat Tongkang]

Don't think they can fatwa against a " belief "!!!

Karma is just deserts for that low life they called dato g string!

As for the ulang tahun tiga puluh commemoration, alamak, don't you know melayu sekarang senang lupa! Hey, that crash was some 30 years ago, so I don't think the current crop of young uns care too hoots. For them its all about money, power, image and me, me, me!

[jandakotcruiser]

The M'sian aviation community, aviation authorities and government missed a great chance to meaningfully pay tribute to those who perished in that tragedy. It has been 30 years and any " official " secrets should have been let to lapse and allow lessons to be learnt.

When I joined MAS for a short period in the late 1980s/early 1990s, their SEP training did have some elements connected to lessons learnt from that tragedy; they were good procedures for that time. Now in a post 911 world, whatever that come out of TSA and FAA rum ramshod over others.

As for the so called g string, I have personally crossed swords with him when he was MAPA president.......I wonder what MAS pilots had been thinking, putting such an arrogant and insolent ass at the helm of their association. He sold their souls for them!!! I have seen him used the local Malays against their non Malays and vice versa, occasionally throwing expats into his cauldron as he stirred the ****pot to fit his personnal agenda.

[SunnyBoy]

Wow!......

[SunnyBoy]

I agree with your first paragraph though Jandalotcruiser.

[JaguhDunia]

Jandakot.....many thanks for being such an astute observer of MAS pilots who shot themselves in the foot then. Well, maybe they thought the elected the lesser of evils who turned out to be a greater demon than most cared to surmise.

30 years seemed a long time ago and a lot of the comtemporaries of the crew and victims of that tragedy have left the aviation scene. The newer chaps at the helm in MAS and the M'sian transport ministry are so full of themselves that they never see any lessons to be learnt except for the little bits of silly ideas coming out from outsize heads.

[mascamel]

Well said old timers! Even a relative newbe like me failed to see why MAS and the M'sian gomen consigned the tragedy to the dustbin. A lot of goodwill and crucial lessons can be learnt. Also time for the gomen to come clean about the former agriculture Minister and his body guard. All the talk of Japanese accent and Japanese Red Army is really a red herring.

A disturbing thing I heard was that the skipper's widow was conned and cheated..........I hope it's not her insurance payout!

[Massey1Bravo]

If you're not going to tell us, then why even bother mentioning it in the first place?

Smiling Monkey,

A simple search on Google revealed a rumor that a certain government official was involved in the hijacking.

See here:
Print Page - Old Story,,Malaysia Airlines 653 crash (http://forum.flydamnit.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=318.0)

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Which was it the Minister or the bodyguard............:hmm: I'll go with the Minister..............Was the Gomen investigating him for corruption????

There was a previous incident involving this Minister and his bodyguard and Babu in Penang regarding the surrendering of the bodyguards weapon. I believe the flight was substantially delayed and eventually the weapon was locked away in the diplomatic locker. But on that fateful day the same thing happened and because it was his anniversary Babu allowed the weapon to be carried on board rather than accept a lengthy delay. A fatal mistake by an incredibly talented and nice man who was the consummate professional.

God bless the souls of all,

Wooblah.

[SunnyBoy]

You are close.

[taufupok]

Babu made a fatal mistake..........let us all learn from that. Allow absolutely no weapons onboard, period. No matter what, VIP, Agung, sky marshalls, Lord of the world.........no one can have any weapons on a commercial flight!!! NOT C4 of course....shudder, shudder, shudder!!

Mascamel, I don't think she was conned of any insurance payout ( eventhough that wouldn't have been a surprise knowing the slimy low life involved ); rather she was robbed of her honour and self esteem.

[MASsenger]

Oh gosh, has been 30 years! Time really gets by in a jeffy! My utmost respect for Babu,what a wonderful man he was. Whilst I cannot confirm Kondaless baie swindled Mrs. Ganjur of her husbands insurance payout, at the same time I not prepared to rule it out. That Kondaless snake was capable of anything. I do agree Mrs.Ganjur was robbed off more - honor and self esteem!

If I ever get to KL, the one person I would like to meet up for beers & chat is the FE that gave Kondaless a face job.

[Sireh]

[quote][/If I ever get to KL, the one person I would like to meet up for beers & chat is the FE that gave Kondaless a face job]quote

Me too, love to join you. The kondehless reptile should get another face job soon.........just heard from someone in kimchiland that he tried bullying the saintly LMY ( our ex MAS DC-10 sifu ) over in Seoul, contributing to a stressful outbreak of leukemia for the nice and saintly old goat. I sincerely wish LMY the best of health and speedy recovery.

[Mat Tongkang]

Hi, do you mean LMY of Klang? If so, he was indeed the most patient and accommodating instructor I ever had on the jumbo classic. Man, that guy was indeed a saint, I would not have survived transition on the classics if not for this chap. Hope he gets well soon, any word on how to get in touch with him?
As for the pariah bai, hey watch out.....I gonna restructure your pundeh face if you even try to do that to LMY again!!!

[Barney Rock]

Errr, I thought Looney Loong was medically boarded out due to a heart problem ( extreme tachycardia, I believe ), not leukemia. I don't think that punjabi braggart dared to bully Loong..you guys must have been mistaken.

[tiggerhood]

Hi Barney, you old dinosaur.........me thinks they ain't talking about Looney Loong . The LMY they referred to is nice little fella who retired, not medically grounded. This gentlemean was a delight to fly with, humble and unassuming. Did hear something about some bad blood between he and the nastie alluded to....didn't someone hit that chap in KUL sometime ago? It would be nice if someone indeed restructured that Freddy Kruger nose!

[MasMamak]

Some ex kimchiland denizen confirmed that pundeh bai got fellow ball-less fellas to otracize LMY because he was not greeted and addressed as " latuk ". MAPA took out full page advert to congratulate him as " latuk " but the small little fella LMY did not snap to attention and addressed the " latuk " when he showed up in kimchiland.....what a pee brain. Jandakot is right, what the f**k were MAS pilots thinking when he was elected MAPA prez? Alas, my MAPA subscription was badly wasted on the f**king congratulatory advert!!:ugh::ugh::{

[Geragau]

Aiyoyo; fellas up probably exhibited pack behaviour, when one makes a kill the rest comes in to feed on the scraps. Typical school boyish behaviour, the bully hits a smaller chap the other scamps cheer on. If only someone give the pariah a bloody nose, poor LMY would not have endured stress and humiliation. F**k those latuks, scums of society and yet those without balls defer to them.

[Paishinel]

Alas, most think this is an old story to be consigned to the garbage bin.............truly sad. Much can be learned, but operationally as well as in the theatre of human decency. After thirty years, the statute of limitation on official secrets should have long expired and the government should come clean on the events leading to the tragedy.

[chintanmanis]

Was the kondeless latuk trying to comfort the widow or was he looking for a comfort woman ? How about the bollywood comfort woman he paraded around with during someone's b'day bash sometime ago?

Ya, we all failed to see why our subscription riggits were squandered in the Mapa advert. Anyway we all know Mapa ain't the paragon of good moral ethics, so.........

[SunnyBoy]

Taufupok Ganjoor did not make any mistake.

[Molokai]

Isn't this the chap who claimed to be a royal titled bloke who tried to fleece someone a couple years ago with fast track recruitment to Jet Airways? Now that Jet is almost belly up, those who got fleeced should go after his skin..........not only they lost money but the future doesn't look too bright.

In the land of the Rising Sun, the veteran pilots here don't have any recollection of the Japanese Red Army having any role in the MH653 hijack. However they did mention something about hostage taking in some AIG building in KUL in the 70s.

[salahbensilap]

The Japanese Red army thingy was a red herring made up to cover the tracks of the corrupted in the then M'sian govt. The PM then, however, did a nice thing...priests and religious heads from all the religions freely administered the last rites to the victims. It was a grand gesture of goodwill, which, alas, was not extended to other facets of Malaysian life.

[Sireh]

Just a small correction to Molokai's post.........in the 70's, the Japanese Red Army laid siege to the AIA building in Jalan Ampang.

[SunnyBoy]

Ganjoor did not make a mistake. He did what he was told to do.

[babasinkeh]

Ganjoor certainly made the mistake of not standing his ground.......not guns onboard. To say that he had to do what he was told to do is disingenuous; he was reputed to be responsible and consummate commander.

[SunnyBoy]

Referring to the Thread of Captain Wooblah, 2nd of January 2009: I do not think a minister will travel twice in one day from Penang to KL. I believe the incident where Ganjoor stood his ground and got his way happened a year before the Hijacking. Babasinkeh what would you say to people who think he allowed the weapons in the cabin because it was his birthday?

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Sunnyboy,

It was a long time ago but if memory serves me correctly there were two separate incidents separated by approximately one year involving the same minister and his bodyguard. In the first incident Babu stood his ground and the flight was delayed approx one hour and the weapon was finally placed in the locker.

Referring to the second fateful incident it was indeed the same passengers inflicting the same problem. And if memory serves me correctly again it was not his Birthday but rather his wedding anniversary hence his reluctance to delay the flight. Further to this I believe that the first incident approx a year earlier was quite ugly and did cause some repercussions to the staff members involved. who, I must add did the right thing. As you are aware these minister cronie types can and do throw their weight around usually involving some buddy in a position of power within the airline looking for favours such as his worthless datukship. :ugh:

Wooblah.

[babasinkeh]

Well Sunnyboy,

I was only 8 years old at that time; the tragedy occurred quite close to my home then in Skudai. My family members are airline enthusiasts and I do research quite a bit into the incident when I decided pursue a career in flying. Without trying to sound audacious, I fully subscribe to Taufupok's policy of no firearms on any public commercial aircraft which will imply that Capt. Ganjoor did make the mistake of not standing firm in disallowing the carriage of guns by the minister's bodyguards.

Having said that, I can sadly relate to the fact that the fateful incident happened on Capt Ganjoor's wedding anniversary leading him to make an exception knowing that the minister would really have raised such a stink resulting in prolonged delay. We all can make such mistake or keel under pressure from high power individuals like that cabinet minister; unfortunately this ended with tragic consequences.

[Geragau]

It's indeed disingenuous for Sunnyboy to imply that just because baba was a young lad he knows nothing.
Take heart baba, you sound like a knowleageable young chap with a bright future in Malaysian aviation. Don't let the little put down get to you.
There are a number of nearly old farts who are very full of themselves, just don't be like them when your turn comes.:ugh:

[MasMamak]

Oops, me thinks u are a bit late. Sunnybody has edited his post, now u look like a fool. Can't shake the feeling that he was indeed the Batam Sani as alluded by someone earlier; however that post had been deleted.

Coming back to Ganjoor; it was his wedding anniversary, not birthday! He was indeed a faithful romantic, rushing home for the anniversary dinner which he eventually never had. Now if I got it right, a future Mapa leader then went widow humping under false pretenses wrt his insurance payout....wow, mind bongling low low life, despicable behaviour. Gee, and Mapa took out adverts with my subscription money to laud this pariah when he was thrown a ****ty latukship....outrageous and brain numbing! Can Mapa fellas ever hold their heads high ever again, sheeesh:{:{:ugh::ugh:

[SunnyBoy]

O.k. Babasinkeh what would you do as a professional, like Ganjoor was?
Let's assume for a moment the most logical course of events: after the quarrel between the Minister and Ganjoor at Penang Airport, the Minister writes a letter of complaint to the Company and the Company tells Ganjoor, even better, writes him a letter with the instruction to accept in future the weapons of the minister's body-guards in the cabin during flight. It might have been Ganjoor's wedding anniversary, but...... By the way, you are not alone in your love for airlines. Keep up the good work and I will not be surprised that one day you will find out there was a letter like that. This is pure speculation of course.

[MasMamak]

Babasinkeh, I hope you will not cave to pressure as sunnyboy would have you do. For instance, if your DFO or chief pilot pressure you to take the absolute minimum fuel inspite of the possibility in the wx forecast of some destination and alternate CBs ..........just don't do it, otherwise you will be screaming your ass off begging for vectors to Batam, besides screwing up other pilots fuel status with your begging for priority handling, etc.:=:=

[SunnyBoy]

MasMamak, it is obvious you are the best boy of the classroom. In real live though it is sometimes a balancing act between the safety of the ''aircraft'' and the continuation of your employment with the Company. I don't know what Captain Ganjoor's considerations were and I don't think anybody knows. I am still waiting for Babasinkeh's answer.

[babasinkeh]

Sunnyboy, to keep it short. NO FIREARMS ON BOARD. PERIOD

[SunnyBoy]

JAR in Malaysia, Capt.Wooblah, 280807: Remember this was the 70's and a hijack of a domestic Malaysian flight was unheard of.

Outstanding decision Baba. However IT IS NOT THAT SHORT. Don't forget you were 8 years old when all this happened. It gets me to see that you have no scruples to criticize an established professional of 1977 with the arguments of to-days safety standards. Standards that are reached due the experiences of earlier crews and of which you now benefit. Why don't you listen to the people who were in aviation at the time, before you believe you know it all. To say that Ganjoor was an above standard professional and at the same time say he let the weapons onboard because of his ''wedding anniversary???'' That would not be very professional on the part of Babu, would it? I am pretty sure, there must have been a more likely reason. Like the letter. And tell me, how do you know his wedding anniversary was the deciding factor? Did Ganjoor tell you?

[tiger king]

Whatever decsion the Capt made at that time would have been the best
base on the circumstances he was in!

Lets pray for him to RIP and and those who lost thier lives.

[SunnyBoy]

Now, don't fall asleep now Tiger .... It matters because in the case of the ''wedding anniversary'', the Company goes free. Which might be different if Ganjoor toke-off under pressure from ''the letter'', mentioned above.

[tiger king]

SunnyBoy you seem a grumpy old man!

Its just an opinion and please let his soul RIP. It will help!

TK

[SunnyBoy]

It is not about me TK. It is about the truth around the fatal ending of flight MH653 in 1977. If you are not interested, don't bother. Many others are interested.

[SunnyBoy]

It seems to me very unlikely, that someone would kill himself for being offered betel nuts leaves and lime or being talked to too much (with all respect, Hassan Bok, 270807). Shooting both pilots in flight is suicidal at all times, unless you have a plan B to bring the aircraft safely on the ground. This was clearly not the case. Looks like PREMEDITATED, and strokes with the situation described by SIREH, 270807: ''So the corrupt bloke got desperate''…. Facing court cases and even imprisonment. Why hijacking an aircraft? Because, amongst other reasons, that way no-body would know about his decision to leave this world before judgment. This is my view and the best I can do towards my promise to a Malaysian who told me 30 years ago that the truth would never be known in Malaysia.

[Sky Dancer]

Sunnyboy , you know I have been reading this thread for ages and the more I read it the more I feel saddened for I feel that justice would never be given to the souls of Capt. Ganjoor , his crew and the passengers.When it happened I was too young to even put two words together but maybe now you can answer some of the questions that are at the back of my mind.....Was Capt.Ganjoor from Indian Airlines ?How old was he when this took place ?How long was he with MAS at that point in time ?What happened to his family...his wife and daughter ?How old was his child when it happened ?The SNAKE that you talk about , was it Capt.Gurucharan Singh...the bloke who was with Jet and where is he these days ?Why was the Malaysian govt. so quick to attribute this accident to the so called Jap Red Army ? So many years hence haven't anyone among the M'sian citizens questioned the reason behind the crash ?Did the M'sian govt. ever acknowledge the fact that there was a skirmish between the minister's guards and Capt.Ganjoor about the carriage of weapons on board ?Did they ever say that the minister in question was desperate ?When you heard the CVR transcripts , who was in the cockpit at that point in time ?...You know it's never too late to bring out these questions in public....I mean to the masses in Malaysia.Maybe then justice would be done to Capt.Ganjoor and all the life lost on that day rather than have memorial ceremonies which I don't think mean much to those who gather there anyway...except the usual lip service and croc tears....:ok:

[SunnyBoy]

Sky Dancer, sorry, I cannot give you an answer on any of your questions. Except that I believe the transcript of the CVR was in the news paper. I am not sure that this was the correct and complete representation of the original.

[SunnyBoy]

Can anyone confirm that there was a deadheading crew onboard the ill-fated flight? (awful word)

[Sireh]

Sky Dancer, you are ABSOLUTELY right about the SNAKE, it's that individual!

As for Babu's widow and child, I will refrain from any more comment as Capt Wooblah rightly pointed out some time ago that it is best we leave them alone to move forward.

The M'sian govt ( or the then defacto supremo, the then DPM ) made use of the fact that the Cuban embassador to Japan was onboard to pin it on the Japanese Red army to avoid any more probes into the involvement of a member of the M'sian cabinet in the tragedy. At that time, the powers that be behind the M'sian govt were already putting in plans to put the then PM Hussein Onn to pasture. It was a murky picture, but the ACA ( or BPR ) then was trying to do what the PM wanted, but the DPM put the brakes on the probe.

[Sky Dancer]

Sireh,thanks for that.That was useful.I'm trying to piece together a couple of things as to why maybe Babu did not vehemently object to the carriage of weapons.For instance he may have been a relatively new expat in MAS at that time and did not want to make much of a scene.And if he was from Indian Airlines , crew there are used to so called powerful people travelling as pax and pulling their weight around...and I would be still be interested to know as to what happened to his family...and where is the SNAKE these days ?In KAL ?And did anyone in MAS hear the full CVR ?:ok:

[leftseatview]

i can confirm that Capt Ganjoor was ex Indian Airlines.
He had been with MAS for a while,and by all accounts was well liked and respected there.
And if this thread is any indication,its nice to see that he is still fondly remembered.
Till the arrival of skymarshalls,the practice in Indian Airlines,was for the weapon of the VIP's bodygaurd to be unloaded and handed over to the Capt and carried in the cockpit.(and returned after landing at destination)
No matter how high and mighty,there were no exceptions.
And in those monopoly days,IA Capts had the absolute last word in such matters.
A letter from MAS management to the contrary ,as some suggest,would have been an unpleasant dilemma
Capt Ganjoor left behind a family in India too(his son is 45,and daughter a few years younger)
They have moved on,and are doing well.

[Sireh]

Hi Leftseatview,

Many thanks for the info. Very glad indeed that Babu's family in incredible India is doing well.

As for the snake guru, I am sure some guys up in SEL can give a lowdown on his nefarious activities. In some previous threads it was mentioned that he tried conning some folks into joining fast track into Jet Airways for some good sum of money besides undermining Richard's position as B777 supremo in Jet as well. Some alleged that he gave the well respected Leong MY a hard and stressful time in SEL and also trying to fix up others as well. It' s time people come out bravely to expose this pariah for who he is. I read somewhere that a certain Barney Rock has posted in this forum and might have worked in KAL...........well Barney, if you do read this, please check your pm. I have some questions and requests.

[Sky Dancer]

thanks everyone for the update and info..:ok:

[Barney Rock]

Hi Sireh, got your pm. OK, I will bite. However, please remember that what I am about to relate happened some 8 or 9 years ago when I was still in KAL. Some of the events might not have happened in chronological order.

The person in question was , for some reasons, given an abbreviated name Gsingh by the airline. I did fly with him once in an augment crew complement but did not interact much with him; neither did I have much an opinion about him. However an incident on a bus commute from the crew hotel ( KAL crew used to stay in Renaissance hotel somewhere in an affluent section of SEL and commute to/from Kimpo International airport by the KAL limousine bus service ) made me wary of this individual. He was trying to goad a fellow Asian pilot to make fun of another Asian pilot ( with whom I had known ) about that person's Catholic faith...something about holey " holes " when the Catholic guy talked about the Holy Week and other things holy. Fortunately, the other younger Asian pilot told him to knock it off and this Gsingh guy took offense and berated him. He also pilloried another of his colleague who he called ( if I remembered right ) " Alzheimer " and accused the other pilot of not differing to him in boycotting the person he called " Alzheimer ". I believe the younger chap told him off ( it was a bit difficult to make out their version of Malaysian English ). Later on, I was to learn from other Asian pilots that he called the paricular person Alzheimer because he was forgetful in not addressing him by some royal title he claimed to have inherited.

I found it disconcerting having such an individual around as a colleague and years later I found that it paid to be wary of such a moron. A fellow pilot nearly paid heavily for this individual's shifty ways. He had an engine pod strike but did not report it but took the aircraft back to base ( a 2 legs flight ); the damage was discovered later.

[Paishinel]

An ex kimchiland denizen confirmed that that pariah bai did indeed tried his tricks to be the big boss of the ex MAS boys over in SEL. Most just let it be but a few resisted whereupon the kondehless creep tried to fix them up. Wasn't that typical of that scumbag like the days in MAS? Gee, I am still sore he signed over our FC seats when he was in MAPA.

[Kuranda Express]

Ha, didn't know that so many have axe to grind with this singh. I too was in kimchiland many years ago....flew a couple of times with this ass, real big foul mouth pain. A real piece of work, he quieten down a lot after being forced to undergo several sim rechecks after the engine pod case which he tried to hide. I personally flew with the so called " Alzheimer " he berated............this guy was a great colleague, humble, knowledgeable and above all a true gentleman. I believe this nice gentleman also retired but I understand from the other Malayan guys he has stressed induced leukemia upon retirement........get well, my friend. Enjoy your retirement like me

[mascamel]

Hi Barney...that scumbag did not INHERIT any royal title. He was given one by the sultan of his home state for being a great brown noser, the same sultan who now demolish whatever semblance of democracy they have in his state of perak.

Coming back to the ill fated MH 653 flight, it was the first major air disaster in Malaysia and I would have thought that the lessons learnt might have been passed on to newer generations in a more forthcoming manner. Years later, I believe an Ethiopian B767 was similarly hijacked and ended in a ditching disaster when the hijackers bludgeoned the crew as they attempted a landing by the beach somewhere in the Comoros. This disaster was highlighted in some documentary by Discovery or National Geographic.

[OKhalsa]

Most of the lessons learnt from the MH653 disaster were incooperated into MAS SEP procedures wrt to hijack conditions. However most are only applicable in Malaysian airspace as only local ATC and the special actin squad ( UTK ) are familiar with the procedures. It would not be prudent to elabotae further on the specifics in this public forum.

As for the guy you all called scumbag, g-string, etc; I would say unequivocally that he is indeed a real piece of work. Sometime ago to help get a sidekick of his off the hook for a sexual harassment case in MAS, he got his lawyer goons and other scumbags to threaten the poor victim's life. The poor girl ( a fellow Punjabi at that ) had to capitulate and withdaw the complaints. There a lot of nasty things this low life did and I guess those still in MAS should watch out for the son whose is 100% chip of the old nasty block.

[Sky Dancer]

So now we know where GS is ...what about Roland Thomas and where does he fit in into the scheme of things ?How did the two of them end up in Jet Airways ?And I'm still curious to know about Capt.Ganjoor's family and what exactly did GS end up doing to the family ?:ok:

[Mat Tongkang]

In the early 90's Jet Airways started operations by wet leasing some B737-400s from MAS. RAT jumped at the chance to make some inroads into India as insurance in case Dato Khairi's regime got toppled, which indeed happened. As part of the deal in the wet lease, RAT sold himself as some development expert, roped in the scumbag g-string and went on to con both MAS and Jet. They were supposed to be seconded by MAS to Jet; but they got both MAS and Jet to pay them......double dipping. After RAT retired from MAS, he remained in Jet as part of the deal; the bai remained tagged to the deal, continuing with the double dipping until he was unceremoniously dumped from Jet for sexual harassment of a female Jet pilot. He supposedly underwent a humiliating " kowtow " Indian type public apology ceremony to the girl before he was let off. Then he scooted off to KAL

[MasMamak]

Ha, that was precisely that happened! Not forgetting the money siphoned off from MAPA members whenever there were MAPA functions, this pundeh bai and his rabbit teeth sidekick will pocket whatever they could.

As for the kowtow apology, it's more like kissing the feet of the person one had wronged......Indian thingy befitting the creep.

[Ali Sadikin]

I have always wondered how MAS pilots come to elect that crook as their MAPA prezident. I remembered his arrogant and foul mouth attitude to my fellow pilots when he was in flight ops audit.

The MAS SEP procedures incorporated was unique and I must say they were quite useful; I just don't know how they would hold up in today's post 911 environment.

[debonaire1900]

I have read several threads in this forum and this is my first and last post.

I feel compelled to comment on the un professional posts on this thread.

Being an anonymous forum, it is quite sad that the likes of MASMAMAK and MAT TONGKANG choose to use first names, derogatory slang and racists remarks.

I have never been with MAS- however have several friends there . Being in an airline down south i am appalled at the way these 2 individuals are commenting and speculating- quite often with wrong information.

One can only conclude that-

1. the above stated 2 are bored with their job and have the bolehland mentality that their race is superior.

2. Stuck in their respective SAND PITS- flying for some outfit, and to past the time - gossip like girls!!!

I dont claim to know the individuals you are tearing apart, however i disagree with name mentioning and racist comments.IT IS JUST WRONG TO CRUCIFY THE MAN, AND NAME HIM BASED ON YOUR OPINION OF HIM. Yes he may be all you said,....but really- GROW UP GUYS!!! Call yourself pilots???
This is quite typical of the country and race the 2 individuals belong to.
That is the exact attitude why the country has gone to the dogs and the airline is being run by monkeys.-:=

Be MEN- if you mention ones name- be brave enough to put yours forward and beat your chest like the monkeys you are.:

PS- I HAVE LOTS OF FRIENDS WHO KNOW YOU MR MAT TONGKANG- AND FROM THEIR COMMENTS- YOU SHOULD BETTER SPEND YOUR TIME ON AVIATION TYPE MATTERS . WORD IS YOU ARE A TERRIBLE OPERATOR/ BUT HEY YOU KNOW THAT IM SURE!!:D- after all , why did you get to where you are ??

[James' Bro]

Debby 1900,

At the age of 39, you are too young to know who he is...... unless you are him !

[debonaire1900]

As i said i dont know him- nor would i judge him.

I do not object to opinions GOOD OR BAD on this forum about any man

i DO OBJECT to idiots who - post REAL Names of people they are ripping apart
and hide behind their
anonymity that this forum allows.

Thats the making of a coward!- and my last post mentioned 2 such morons who keep posting very personal, childish and not so accurate info and comments.- in more than one thread.!!

I could be 39 or 69 or 9.- But at any age one does not have to put up with the racists , personal and slanderous remarks, made to ANY person.

Mat Tonkang has accused the individual of some serious crimes- molestation being one of them. He also referred to him as a "Kondehless Bai".
Racist and slanderous- only made worse by the mention of HIS REAL NAME.

But this is expected of the few individuals in MAS or Ex MAS who have little professionalism running through them.Sitting and hiding behind their computers , egos bigger than their IQ they are filled with jealousy of the "others" moving up without a handout!:=

[Shintaro9]

D 1990...

Wait till you get to know him, then you'll be calling him names too. Don't waste your time defending him. He is extremely arrogant, and enjoys belittling people, especially in public. But, I must admit he's the best in something... Lying.

He certainly deserves to be called by all those names, believe you me. :D

Cheers!

[Hassan Bok]

Debby is probably the chip of the old block. Citibank acct in S'pore by the old block to sustain offspring down in kiasuland, hence the claim of sojourn down there.

[debonaire1900]

Hassan - its no wonder you were removed from the forum before.

You are yet another sub standard , low class, kampung boy- ( yes not man!!) making assumptions.I knew you MAS supreme race pilots in the 45- 55 year band were NOT the BRIGHTEST bulbs in the building...and Hassan- you just confirmed that!

Far from the truth Mr. Hassan -( yes i know who you are,... YET ANOTHER WITH A BAD REP),.....i have nothing to do with the individuals mentioned or this thread.

Just initially was interested in the Hijack issue. thats all.-

[Hassan Bok]

Wow! Scary, he knows I! Talking about being derogatory, hmm. Promises and lies, debby is thy name.

[salahbensilap]

debonaire call others racists; now what shall we call shim after the later diatribes? I don't think the posters that you mentioned identified him by his real name. Somebody else did; and your veiled threat intimating that you know who Mat, Mamak and Hassan are.....to what end my holier than you clown?

[debonaire1900]

Another boleh person from MALAYsia airlines stuck now in the sand pit.

Lots of sand in the air must breed Jealousy and bitterness.

Remember the influence the said person has and the far reaches one can go to .You can hide behind a profile name- but surely you are not that dumb to think it wont catch up on you.

if those people believe in their posts- sign your name

[cav-not-ok]

that's 4 reply's now.. but who's counting?..........

[rain5]

Gentlemen,

I have just registered here however have been following the forums for a long time.

I do agree with the core of Debbys concerns- however knowing the person you all so bravely speak about- I WOULD TOO leave the room if he entered.I do know him, after all ,,,,,many years in the same airline.

But FOR-all the names debby mentioned- please be professional and if that you cant be , then please be cautious.- EVIDENCE can easily be gathered from forums such as this for Slander cases.I have a strange feeling you all are being baited and have foolishly made accusations about not only Gs but others as well.My sources say there might be legal action taken.;)

JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH LA.

[leftseatview]

Hmmmm.....
a sudden upsurge in the number of probationary ppruners defending this individual/offspring.
Thats got my attention
By the way, the aviation community is still a relatively small group of circles.
And as they say "Your reputation preceeds you".

[Hassan Bok]

First and last post, so he said. Things are not so OK.

[Sky Dancer]

If you want to get legal , there really is no way that comments in this forum can hold good in court.The comments mentioned are those of an individual and not of an establishment or body.All across the world albeit in certain countries , every individual has the right to mention his opinion or point of view and there really is no way you can stop that...:ok:

[rain5]

That is incorrect.- look at Raja Petra ( malaysia today) - defamation/slander.

Post away - i really am not fussed./ I registered here to give you all a heads up. I know the individual is gathering evidence for defamation- the son is active here.And furthermore they have powerful lawyers.

All i can say is Mat t and the rest better have their facts correct.

[Sky Dancer]

The context of Raja Petra and the individual in question are totally different.One involves national politics and security while the other none of that really.Like I'd said earlier , "except in some countries"......if that be the case there would be law suits flying around here , as this forum seems to be all about that...hehehe...and yeah being an international forum , it would be pretty hard to decide on the court of arbitration....unless of course you are talking about the international court of arbitration...that would leave quite of few people bankrupt by the time it's over...:ok:....having said that this could be the beginning of justice for the spirit of Capt. Ganjoor and the rest of the souls that left us on that day..if that does happen ..there would be a few smiling faces...:D

[Sky Dancer]

Well,well,well it looks like things have quitened down a bit on the topic after the threat of legal action by our friends in Singapore.Like I'd mentinoed earlier comrades , there really is no room for any sort of legal action.Even if there is , it will come under the media glare and eventually the Malaysian government will have to face some tough questions.If it comes to that , then the process of justice for the souls lost and the families wronged will begin.It's funny life does come full circle all the time.But digressing a bit, Capt.G has come under a lot of bashing on this forum and I would like to share a little story I came across some time ago about him while he was in Jet.This is regarding the public apology episode. When RAT and G were there during the early years of Jet the standards of flying were quite well maintained and a few crew did have problems getting through various checks.(Not that these guys were TREs).A rich and powerful kid couldn't make it through a check and G was under pressure to clear the kid.Rumour is that G was kind of fixed in this harrasment case and finally decided to quit.I don't know G but have heard of him.I believe RAT tried to help him out but couldn't do much.Now this is not the real story but one of the versions I picked up at a bar some years ago.Looking back there may some credence to it if you look at the number of VPs Jet has had since 2000 and also the number of accidents/incidents...now we got something more to keep this thread alive:ok:

[rain5]

Well we know who is the **** stirrer here.

Obviously a misinformed individual who wants someone to commit themselves to slander and/or defamation.
Also not very well versed with the legal system ( or lack there of ) in Malaysia.

The Hijack was years ago,..and Sky dancer is the one - who keeps bringing up individuals and unrelated issues to cause a stir

Grow up man, and stop stirring the rest.Surely you have a life other than posting here?.

BEWARE- DONT TAKE THE BAIT !!

[debonaire1900]

Finally someone here with a few brain cells- Well said rain5.

But what a pity i was hoping Skydancer would blow his horn more. ! After all he keeps giving us accounts of :"bar talk" and his version of events making it so obvious he is a fool trying to coerce other fools to scream- ( reminds me a bit of a youth group recently in Malaysia:D)

If you notice, Skydancer has many posts on a lot of threads- all meaningless and all foolish. He has no life, - really what a looser!!

[SunnyBoy]

Misguided, misinformed... The next word normaly is re-education.

[Sky Dancer]

Well things seemed to have really gone quiet when I decided to lay low.To my friends Debbie and Rain all I have to say is read well the posts that I have written in the past especially relating to this thread.You might want to change some of your opinions.My interest has always been to know what went wrong with MH 653.I don't recall bringing up the names of the concerned individuals for the first time here,they've been brought up a couple of times already and I just wanted to know more about them for my own reasons.Debbie before you go around threatening people and accusing them of being racist , take a look in the mirror buddy.You're everything that you accuse us of being, if not worse.Rain you seem to be well versed with the legal system...just a word of advice , there's a lot more to it that you think...and remember the world of the internet is big bad and ugly....there are things you think you know but you don't ....:ok:

[debonaire1900]

NST) - Datuk Dr Maximus Ongkili yesterday lodged a report against Malaysia Today editor Raja Petra Kamarudin over two articles posted on the website.

Ongkili claimed the two postings, on Monday and Tuesday, were defamatory.

"I did what was necessary. I've made a police report against the editor and writer of the posts," he said after launching Petrosains' dinosaur exhibition, DinoTrek 2, at Suria KLCC.

Ongkili said a police investigation officer from Putrajaya recorded his statement at his office at 8.30am.

AND THAT WAS OF A PERSONAL NATURE.

SO SKYDANCER- YES THE INTERNET IS AN UGLY PLACE AND YOU MAY THINK YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND YOUR PROFILE NAME, BUT YOU ARE WRONG !- EVERYONE ON FORUMS HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID MAKING DEFAMATORY STATEMENTS !

[Mat Tongkang]

Yo, what have we here. A couple of weeks away from the PC and what have we here; a congenital liar posting heaps in defence of that kondehless miscreant. Well let the legal action begin and we will see what poo and kaka will come out. Heard from the grapevine that someone has procured info and picture of the engine prang in somewhere in Japan and JCAB is mighty interested. Someone who took voluntary seperation had obtained and squirelled away some documents pertaining to the double dipping, these are some cheap amno for the defence, the heavy artillery are being kept secret of course.

[debonaire1900]

Finally MT - drawn you out from the hole you were hiding in.:D

Keep going- say some names please- and why not do the Mat thing and SAY your name as well!!!:ok:

[rain5]

Ha Ha debby- you are the funny guy

Who are you?? you seem to know too much.

But have you heard about Mat Tonkang s case??- ask any FO about his recent screw up. !!!
Just another MALAYsia pilot.AS you said before....... he aint the best operator.:=

Im sure you have heard about it anyway- !! i have guessed who you are by the way. - smart guy huh- well remember i said nothing , so dont sue me- your focus is the MATS!!

[Sky Dancer]

yeah debbie..I've figured who you are as well...talk about slander..:ok:

[MasMamak]

These celaka fellas seriously think that I gonna sit around the PC waiting on pprune forum all the time....hey, you think MT and I are hiding? Please do and keep on gloating you imbeciles! There are webmasters tracking you too. For the celaka fellas, the sandpit and the subcontinent are very big places and we have killer rosters which take one away for long stretches with no time nor inclination to reply to your purile posts. Anyway the recent ramblings have uncovered something; guys back at MAS, you got a celaka kecik to deal with. He surely will dig, dig, dig. Make sure he gets to 6 ft under.

[rain5]

MasMamak- relak la brudder!!

Debby is just trying to get you all to post stuff you will regret.-I know him, be careful, power that runs high and pockets that run deep.

As for the sandpit- well your rosters that good......hmmmmm.....really??:=

LETS FACE IT, IF YOU HAD A CHOICE, I AM SURE YOU WOULD NOT BE THERE, AND IF THE NEW CA DID NOT PROHIBIT YOU ALL FROM RETURNING I AM SURE ALL OF YOU WOULD BE BACK IN MAS( WITH THE NEW PAY SCHEME).

[SunnyBoy]

Sky Dancer:

Capt.G.K.Ganjoor, age: 43 yrs, married four children. With MAS since MSA days (1971). Trained in Seattle after joining MAS. Total flying hours 15,500.

F/O Kamaruzaman Jalil, age: 25 yrs. Single. Joined MAS 4th June, 1974. Promoted to B737 4th October 1976. Trained in Curug, Indonesia. Total flying hours 1,866. With Royal Military College 1970-72.

[debonaire1900]

Ha Ha - Mamak really got your sarong in a knot eh???:ok:

Well since you are so busy flying on your LOOOOOOOOOOOng patterns- ( p.s- the whole forum is laughing ,as we all know that aint true!!)- then maybe you wont have time to gossip like a bapok .

If you post negative comments with names about individuals, be man enough to post your real name.
As you are already swimming in the waters of future litigation i advise you to lower your blood pressure and concentrate on your weak aviation knowledge and operations.

All the sand must have entered your brain- if its so great there - why is your family always complaining???:=

[Sky Dancer]

Thanks a lot...we seem to be getting back on track now..:ok:

[Mat Kilau]

Hi all,

Kamaruzaman was a great colleague of mine, albeit for a short time. I did keep in touch with his family and they are all fine.
As for the injustice to Babu's family, the sad thing is that it was all true. Lesson to be learnt; do not trust the smooth talking, loud mouths with fancy titles. The rest we all know.

[Banda The Brave]

Did a check with friends and relatives with regards to Okhalsa's allegation; the poor girls in the case was indeed traumatised and aggrieved. I am angry at the racist rants by the melayus about the Punjabis and I must say to you guys, cease and desist. I cannot in good conscience defend that arrogant piece of work and I must urge the khalsa to condemn his actions. Likewise the probationaries that sprouted up in this forum defending him are being baited too. Maybe the moderators should close this thread as nothing new about the original tragic incident has surface.

[Munajeeb]

Looks like the kecik bengali celaka cuba buat kacau lah. Asking and sniffing around FMB. Kau buat jahat, rasalah bisa nanti.

[debonaire1900]

munajeeb- say it to his face

he is waiting, dont be a coward and hide here .

[rain5]

Banda and mjeeb- When did you join this FORUM?? :=

Fools!! cant you see he is getting you out of your holes./ Yes shut the forum down- as i KNOW his investigator is working overtime.

Its amazing that the mental capacity of the MALAYsia crew has not got the airline into More trouble than it already is in. Lucky half of them are flying in the desert somewhere.

[Teg Bahadur]

Bande & Okhalsa, the reputation of the Khalsa has been besmirched by others knowing the race of this nefarious father/son team. Ipoh folks know very well the inner dirt these descendants of ujagar. Similarly, the reputation of Indian pilots are sullied by the chap caught stealing at Mustafa Centre in SIN; in that incident the moderators were quick to close the thread................hmmmmm

[MMBenar]

Hi everyone, got introduced to this forum recently and went thro' a number of MAS threads. It was mentioned somewhere that the former Mapa president forced the secretary to award him a more senior membership number from a retiree....true?

[Mat Kilau]

MMB.......did some checking to make sure facts are correct; yep, the bhai did force the Mapa sec to assign him the membership no. of a person who left Mapa. Old timers with the Mapa membership lists stretching back to the 80's and 90's will be able to verify that.

[nasree]

Not forgetting the arak and todi haram during mapa function...........my hard earned money down the jamban. The one side kick probably got punished with heart attack some years ago.

[lembujaga]

Guys, I take exception to you all calling the gstring kondehless. He shames the khalsa, so the correct term for him is mona.

Kondeh is a derogatory term for Kesh and we take great offence to that description of one of our 5 Ks.

[Mat Sabo]

Yo sadarjee, point noted but can you explain the term mona to address the fella? Google it but not much help lah

[ecureilx]

A reliable surdarji, in his drunken stupor told me ..

the 5 Ks

1) Turban
2) the knife (kukri)
3) the Comb on the head
4) the underwear
5) The long hair (Kesh)

Loosely they all start with K in Punjabi ..

As for Mona .. I got to ask him again, when his BAC exceeds legal limits, if anybody wants to be enlightened :E

Cheers, and fly safe

[Teg Bahadur]

Hello, KIRPAN please, not kukri. The latter belongs to the Ghurkas, ok. The other, hick, you missed, hick, is KARA, the metal bracelet, hick! And in fundamental Sikkhism, strictly no alcohol too!

[MasMamak]

Oh sh**,alamak! Code "brown"...those threats led to shedding the brown stuff all over the sand. Now let it be known what was alleged about the pariah is known categoricaLLY TO BE TRUE. And guys, watch out for a sunny snake prowling in the forum....

[Sky Dancer]

Looks like everyones busy fighting court cases these days..:ok:

[Munajeeb]

Hei Mamak...........are you referring to rabbit teeth who is holed up and posting from Tanjung Gemuk? Ha ha the RM5000 derma to masjid PD will certainly wash away sins especially sins commited with pariah latuk gstring!

Everyone has no doubt about what nefarious deeds and acts the kondehless ( or did someone say muna? Aiya, sama nama saya...che'! ) scum committed............they can just pray that the sins of the father do not visit the kecik bhai!

[MMBenar]

If it's of help to anybody, that pariah bhai was spotted recently in MEL, giving MAS staff a hard time demanding to be upgraded because he is latuklah. Must be up to no good.

[lembujaga]

Encik Munajeeb, the correct term for the turbanless creep is MONA not muna! Got it, atcha!

Well the old saying holds good, " the sins of the father............"

Even the KUL Korean staff are sick of the pariah disgrace; one reveal how he arm twist and throw a huge fuss to get his Roast Mama look-alike daughter upgraded to 1st class, threatening check in counter with his latuk title.......WTF? A pariah descendant of ujagar he really is!

[Kentot Gemuruh]

Alamak, itu bengali bengali biadab & celaka semua scared off Mat Tongkanglah. He is now busy witch hunting the eff ohh who snitched on himlah. Me thinks MT is a cool operator lah, itu eff oh semua suka reka cerita semua.........it gonna bommerang, guys. MT maybe regreting not joining the other Mats in the desert kingdoms!

[Sampan Angkasa]

Aiyah, kentot......not so loud, OK. MT sometimes fly scarylah. When his angin is good, he is ace but when things get kalam kabut he gets hyper lah.......so some itchy fried eff oh suka add salt to some incident to make it sound more scary.

[debonaire1900]

i wrote this in March

PS- I HAVE LOTS OF FRIENDS WHO KNOW YOU MR MAT TONGKANG- AND FROM THEIR COMMENTS- YOU SHOULD BETTER SPEND YOUR TIME ON AVIATION TYPE MATTERS . WORD IS YOU ARE A TERRIBLE OPERATOR/ BUT HEY YOU KNOW THAT IM SURE!!- after all , why did you get to where you are ??

And now- HA HA HA.It is good to be right!- He should give up flying la and concentrate on gossiping and spreading rumours.
After this incident he Dont deserve the 4 bars - what a looser.:ok:

[Sampan Angkasa]

Saw a documentary on the Ethiopian Airways B767 crash near the Commoros after being hijacked. A very well documented incident; I wonder why this MH 653 incident did not made it into the National Geographic or Discovery channel programs. Are our authorities and MAS uncooperative or were ther things to hide?

[Vel Paar]

The Ethiopian Airways hijack is well documented.........Capt. Abate is alive and well; he is alive to tell his story. Looks like he had been hijacked before the ill fated flight and so he was quite " ready " to handle the incident. Also, I guess the Ethiopian govt and the airline have nothing much to hide about that tragedy, unlike the Malaysian gomen which has heaps to hide from investigators if they do allow Discovery or Nat Geo to make research and investigations.

[MMBenar]

Debbyass, the big liar is back! More than 10 posts; me thinks MT has exposed you to ridicule more than you can fathom! Your credibility is shot.......hey, semua bhai celaka pandai bohonglah.

[rain5]

mmbenar

You are as dumb as mat .t (your close buddy wink wink)- DO YOU REALLY think you can hide under that name??- joined in Mar 09- and throw insults at others.

Hope you are posting from an internet cafe- as your ip add easy to find-duuuhhhh but that does not occur to people of your origin right??:D

You MAS/ex MAS guys never cease to amaze me- but hell,..it gives me a good laugh to see racist morons who fly planes - DO EXIST after all !!
Wake up! or go back to your Kampung and await your fate.

[MMBenar]

Wow, a do gooder suddenly becoming so emphatic about supporting your DNA type!! I am posting from home on the sometimes irritatingly erratic streamyx. Maybe the erratic streamyx can bungkus off your INVESTIGATORS.........investigators, gee ngerilah!

[rain5]

Well you just dont get it MB/MT.-ddduuuuuhhhh

And perhaps you should be learning your performance- your fellow pilots are not too impressed!!:=

[Munajeeb]

rain 5, for a person who professed not to be be fussed; you sound real frussed.........not nice having " bad " DNA making you a congenital liar. People do read your previous posts you know; so shedding skins and then becoming lidah biawak won't win you any favours.

[MASsenger]

It is said, `the apple does not fall far off the tree.’ So guys, don`t be too surprised if kechi bahi emulates senior. Same DNA!

[Kal Niranjan]

No matter what threats his apologists employ to curtail posting on this nasty ex Mapa prez, most people in the flying business know about his nefarious activities. Alas, most Malaysians take an ambivalent attitude whenever his actions screwed their colleagues........well, history will repeat itself with the nasty offspring waiting on the wings to wreck havoc. The postings here will help the younger guys know what gonna come if they do not stand united to wipe out the shameless scourge.

[Teg Bahadur]

Well K N, totally agree. That scumbag is a pathological liar and real piece of work. Back in the 80's we had a fellow khalsa who lost his licence due to medical and was working hard to claim his lol insurance. The scumbag was Mapa VP then and instead of helping our good khalsa facilitate his claim, he went around making disparaging and discouraging remarks stifling the process, working hand in hand with the DCA medical fella to side with the insurance company. All that due to self interest, golfing and rubbing shoulders with the insurance and DCA bigwigs.:eek:

[Old Parr]

Not forgetting cheating at golf!!! As Mapa prez he used to send poorly informed or disinformed underlings such as lowly committee members for important meetings with management when he had already had a done deal with the bosses to the detriment of Mapa members. He knew that these lowly committee members couldn't do much for the Mapa members at such high powered meetings, so the blame for bad Mapa decisions fall on them and he went laughing to golf games with the management big wigs! Real piece of work this pariah!

[Vel Paar]

Hi MAS vets who posted up there, thanks for the heads up on the offspring of the old con. We, the young uns, will keep a keen eye.......as it is we know the unholy vibes around.

One thing I don't quite understand obout the lol claim process; do the claimants need Mapa to make the claim? It might be worthwhile to use your own lawyer, albeit with some additional expenditure rather than going through Mapa.

[Kal Niranjan]

[quote][Back in the 80's we had a fellow khalsa who lost his licence due to medical and was working hard to claim his lol insurance. The scumbag was Mapa VP then and instead of helping our good khalsa facilitate his claim, he went around making disparaging and discouraging remarks stifling the process, working hand in hand with the DCA medical fella to side with the insurance company. All that due to self interest, golfing and rubbing shoulders with the insurance and DCA bigwigs.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif/QUOTE]


Well good for the chap not getting indebted to the scumbag..........it is Mapa's moral responsibility to assist members in lol claims but I would be wary of accepting any " help " from that scumbag, notwithstanding whether he's mapa vp or not!!! He extracts a heavy price later for whatever he claims to be of help even though he might do just the opposite, screwing you up!! From what was written about the " injustice " to Babu's widow, the price is too high.

[Sky Dancer]

Which brings me back to a question that I had asked sometime ago,what did he do to her ?:confused:

[Kentot Gemuruh]

If it's of help to anybody, that pariah bhai was spotted recently in MEL, giving MAS staff a hard time demanding to be upgraded because he is latuklah. Must be up to no good. 26th April 2009 19:30

Did he arm twist the cabin crew to bungkus for him any samsu haram? One senior cabin crew told me he used to force cabin crew to tapau drinks for him when he pax to Chennai on the way to Mumbai in his " heydays " at Jet.

[Vel Paar]

MMB.......did some checking to make sure facts are correct; yep, the bhai did force the Mapa sec to assign him the membership no. of a person who left Mapa. Old timers with the Mapa membership lists stretching back to the 80's and 90's will be able to verify that.


Did he arm twist the cabin crew to bungkus for him any samsu haram? One senior cabin crew told me he used to force cabin crew to tapau drinks for him when he pax to Chennai on the way to Mumbai in his " heydays " at Jet.

Hello there, has this guy no shame? Mapa president? Deep pockets and sky high influence tapauing inflt liquor from cabin crew? If he is on AK salary as eef ohh, maybe understandable but someone claimed he has deep pockets and earning sacks of greenbacks! Something tak kena here lah.

[Old Parr]

Well Vel ( sic! ), there ARE worser and more dreadful things perpetrated by this ****ty piece of work! PM me if you are interested.

As for sky dancer, I am shock at your naivete! Out of respect for Babu's widow and Babu's memory, most old timers in the know do not want to revisit the pariah's nefarious deeds wrt to the issue or even address your question. If you care to troll through previous posts and threads in this forum, you will find your question answered indirectly. Be good!

[MMBenar]

Hi colleagues in AK and MAS, you must count your blessings.....got a word from Human Resources that the snake is putting feelers for a comeback now that his Korean contract is not gonna be renewed. So fella, you are forewarned. The father / son snake team is surely bad news if he sets foot again in your rice bowl!

[Mat Kilau]

Alamak, Munajeeb and Benar..........you guys are really thick in the head. Why did you post about Tanjung Gemuk, Masjid PD and pariah encounter at Tullamarine? Now you have scared of sunny, rain and debby! They gonna get the polis dirosak to investigate your IP lah....messylah to give duit lasuah ala latuk!

[lembujaga]

[QUOTE][
The things you hear on the greens
Hi colleagues in AK and MAS, you must count your blessings.....got a word from Human Resources that the snake is putting feelers for a comeback now that his Korean contract is not gonna be renewed. So fella, you are forewarned. The father / son snake team is surely bad news if he sets foot again in your rice bowl!
/QUOTE]

Well, looks like bad news if he does weasel himself into AK or MAS. Most likely his fellow reptilian cohoot rat will slot him into firefly. Woe to you fireflies if you let him rise up in your ranks!

[rajamuda]

Now that Jet Airways is almost belly up, what recourse has those who were recruited ( read conned ) by him to join in 2006/2007? Not easy to get a job these days when Jet lay off people?

Thank God I did not join the band wagon to Jet; coming from Ipoh, we all know his rotten reputation. Just feel sorry for those duped by him.

[Kentot Gemuruh]

Yep, got confirmation from someone back from kimchiland...the pariah bhai is going to be out on a limb but pity you guys in AK and firefly as it looks like he will be grovelling at your bosses feet soon. Rain drops falling on mona head:{

[Telur Belacan]

Creepy crawly, that's what happens when you threaten people! Rain 5 and debonaire have done him a disservice after being serviced?

[Sky Dancer]

Thanks for that link , I think I finally found what I was looking for.And just for the record , The Bhai and RAT no longer hold any sort of bargaining power in Jet.They lost it a long time ago...have a good day guys:ok:

[Munajeeb]

The things you hear on the greens
Hi colleagues in AK and MAS, you must count your blessings.....got a word from Human Resources that the snake is putting feelers for a comeback now that his Korean contract is not gonna be renewed. So fella, you are forewarned. The father / son snake team is surely bad news if he sets foot again in your rice bowl

Well, looks like things have come round around. Heard over the greens a year or two ago that the pariah was making fun of 2 fellow colleagues of his up in kimchiland who lost training jobs; now looks like he has lost his. Of course we gonna hear some " spin " to that, like years ago when he failed his final line check in KAL supposedly because he flew so well that the check airman was upset that during the rest period, he ( the bhai ) dared to sit next to him for rest in first class...so the check pilot failed him! Ha ha, what a load of bull!

[Kentot Gemuruh]

And his surrogates had the temerity to make fun at, unsubstantiated and questionable rumours about Mat Tongkang!

[Vel Paar]

OK guys, got it!

Now let's get back to the original subject of the MH 653 hijack...........any chance MAPA can write to Discovery or National Geographic to research into the incident and maybe produce a documentary like the Ethiopian Airways accident? I believe they will jump at the chance if our veterans in MAS and DCA can provide them with the necessary materials for their project.

[ikan_terbang]

You think the politicians will allow it.? Never can in Bolehland !
MAS had 3 accidents and non made it to the television.

Also why SIA Taipeh incident also not shown in ah?

[Sky Dancer]

I know MAS had 2..which was the 3rd ?????

[Kal Niranjan]

It is extremely difficult to do a credible story if the Malaysian government, DCA, UTK and the police do not cooperate and provide the requisite information. As suspected, most of the info are politically sensitive and the powers that be are wary of the damage it can do to their " world ".

Sky Dancer, have you been dancing high on booze and ice? MAS had 3 major disasters, MH 653 hijack in 1977, Airbus A300 ( MH 642 )prang with no human casualties at Subang village in 1982 and the F-50 disaster in Tawau in 1995 while not forgetting the camel's near disasterous ground loop at KCH back in the 80s.

[leftseatview]

It was a Sopwith Camel was it?
quite prone to ground looping,those early tail draggers.
MAS had one flying as late as 80?

[MrBBJ]

Mates, I'll give another MAS accident don't forget 9M-MGG in Sibu around 1992 when the left undercarriage failed on landing. All survived but the a/c was a mess. If I recall correctly there was also a twin otter there having a rebuild at the same time.

[lembujaga]

Hi leftseatview, I don't think Kal was referring to any Sopwith Camel! He was talking about a fruitcake known as " the camel " who weaseled himself into the MAS DFO position some 15 years ago. This camel was MAS A300 fleet manager/ check captain in the 1980's and he managed the near disasterous ground loop at the end of a landing roll after landing long and fast at KCH...it was his route check! And the silly check captain passed him! What a farce?

[MASsenger]

Camel started flexing his mussels as Safety Capt.,that`s when even Hassan DFO then, feared him. He then arse licked Tajudin to slam dung top dogs post.

[leftseatview]

Thanks for clearing that up!
i have been a PAX with MAS to LAX via KL and found it to be a very good experience.
So hope you folks can keep all the bad eggs away/at bay.
i am also touched by all your efforts to give respect to Capt Ganjoor's memory and also trying to learn something from that sad experience(hope NG makes an episode)
He must have been a great guy........and fortunate in flying for an Airline were former collegues keep his memory close to their heart

[Mat Sapu]

Recent rumblings about gross corruption in managing MAS in the 80's and 90's. Look like more juicy details are about to surface; what about the stories of double dipping during MAS's illfated dalliance with Jet Airways?

By Wayne Arnold
The New York Times
December 27, 2002

First he lost control of Malaysia's national airline, then one of its biggest cellular operators. Now Tajudin Ramli, the tycoon whose corporate empire has been besieged by the very government that helped him build it, appears to have lost control of his flagship holding company, too.

Malaysia's bad-debt agency, Pengurusan Danaharta, appointed special administrators earlier this week to take over day-to-day operations at Mr. Tajudin's aviation holding company, Naluri. The move came after the agency scrapped a 510.9 million ringgit ($134 million) deal to sell Mr. Tajudin's 45 percent stake in Naluri to recover some of the roughly 1 billion ringgit he owes Danaharta.

''We have to make sure that our rights are protected,'' said Izhar Hifnei Ismail, an agency spokesman. ''What we really want to see is that whatever value there is preserved.''

Seizing control of Naluri also gives the agency control of roughly 900 million ringgit ($236 million) left over from the government's much criticized, 1.8 billion ringgit buyout in late 2000 of Mr. Tajudin's stake in the Malaysian Airline System, the flag carrier. Naluri's new administrators will now be able to open Naluri's books, repeating a process that has already produced charges of financial misconduct against Mr. Tajudin at the two other companies he used to run.

The unraveling of Mr. Tajudin's holdings and the surrounding scandal are part of a purge by Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad of the entrepreneurs he once relied on as nation builders. In their place, he has promoted a group of technocrats, like those who run Danaharta, to overhaul corporate Malaysia.

While it no longer has a business of its own, Naluri owns stakes in four small airlines, including World Airways in the United States. It also owns part of a Malaysian aircraft parts company with Boeing. Executives at Naluri said they were prohibited from commenting by the special administrators. Mr. Tajudin was unavailable, they said.

A former merchant banker, Mr. Tajudin rose to prominence in the late 1980's under Daim Zainuddin, then the finance minister. Mr. Tajudin's company, Technology Resources Industries, bought Naluri, then called Malaysian Helicopter Services, from the struggling Malaysian Airline System in 1991. The same year, Technology Resources bought the country's sole cellular operator, Celcom.

Mr. Tajudin capped the rapid expansion of Malaysian Helicopter in 1994 by turning around and paying 1.79 billion ringgit in cash for the central bank's controlling stake in Malaysian Airline System, financing the purchase with a huge loan backed by his own shareholdings.

Mr. Tajudin's borrowing caught up with him, however, when the Asian financial crisis hit Malaysia in 1997. While Technology Resources and Celcom managed to win restructuring deals with creditors, Mr. Tajudin tried in vain to sell his stake in Malaysian Airline to pay off debts.

In late 2000, the government -- with Mr. Daim doing a reprise as finance minister -- finally bought out Mr. Tajudin, paying Naluri the same price per share it had paid for Malaysian Airline seven years earlier. The bailout, which paid Mr. Tajudin more than twice the prevailing market price, provoked widespread public outrage and was followed by the ouster of Mr. Daim.

Since then, the airline's new managers have asked the police to investigate allegations of irregularities involving a contract with a Naluri cargo venture in Germany.

The new owner of Technology Resources has made similar accusations. Mr. Tajudin lost control of the company last spring when he failed to make payments on roughly 1 billion ringgit in personal loans backed by his stakes in Technology Resources and Naluri. Securities regulators refused to let him use the funds raised by the sale of his Malaysian Airline stake, much of which is still at Naluri. Danaharta, which had bought the loans from local banks, in turn sold his stake in Technology Resources to Telekom Malaysia.

This summer, Danaharta agreed to sell Mr. Tajudin's stake in Naluri to a little-known company called Valiant Entity. Local newspapers have linked Valiant to Mr. Tajudin, but Danaharta said it had no evidence of a connection. Either way, when Valiant failed to provide Danaharta with a required letter of credit for the purchase by a Dec. 17 deadline, Danaharta called off the sale and appointed special administrators for Naluri from KPMG.

Taking over the management of Naluri is an extraordinary move: the agency usually takes over only deeply indebted companies that it deems beyond restructuring. Naluri has no debts. But Mr. Tajudin remains Naluri's chairman and largest shareholder. In August, Naluri proposed buying back roughly 830 million ringgit in stock from its shareholders.

[Old Parr]

Alamak, Munajeeb and Benar..........you guys are really thick in the head. Why did you post about Tanjung Gemuk, Masjid PD and pariah encounter at Tullamarine? Now you have scared of sunny, rain and debby! They gonna get the polis dirosak to investigate your IP lah....messylah to give duit lasuah ala latuk!


MatKilau, you are absolutely right! Now we do not get to enjoy the marvelous rantings of debonaire, rain and sunnyboy. Sunny just removed his recent post!

Their posts certainly make for nice bar room laughs........however preposterous they may seem.

[lembujaga]

Leftseatview, it's a pleasure to hear that you enjoyed your experience with MH flights to LAX. Just would like you to know that the old generation of MAS pilots who knew Babu Ganjoor thought highly of him even though he was an Indian expat; this was largely due to his people skills. The older generation of MAS pilots came from various ethnic backgrounds and appreciated Babu's professionalism without any racial bias. This, I cannot say for today's talibanised mob which largely swarmed MAS pilot ranks due to the present neo-apartheid policies.

As for the pariah aka datuk gstring alluded to in this thread, he is an absolute disgrace of a low life. We certainly regret the pain and agony he caused to besmirch Babu's memory; the scumbag will certainly be called to account as what goes around definitely comes around.

It is hoped that Babu's family in mother India moved on to do pretty well and if you have contact with them, kindly convey our warm regards and best wishes.

[rajamuda]

Dropped by KAL?
Creepy crawly, that's what happens when you threaten people! Rain 5 and debonaire have done him a disservice after being serviced?


Aiya, not so fast guys. The pariah is not finished yet in KAL. Pariah offspring is boasting to all and sundry that papa snake's contract extended lah; the good news for MAS, AK and Firefly guys........the snake will not be around Tanah Air's skies spitting bad vibes lah!

[Telur Belacan]

Heard from a kimchiland mat salleh in LHR that pariah bhai did get a reprieve from being dropped. Apparently his woeful grovelling and arselicking worked.......one reason he was sighted in MEL by someone in an earlier post was he went over there to plead with the EPA boss to intervene. This grovelling and arse licking of mat salleh was typical of him; heard that when he first failed his rte chk in KAL, he hisap zakar of a certain KAL mat salleh honcho named bill to intercede to be passed. Then the engine pod prang in NRT where again the begging and grovelling saved his skin....KAL must really like such shameless characters; maybe it makes them feel great to have a groveling bolehland latuk begging!

[Old Parr]

Years ago, I was in Seattle for an acceptance/delivery flight of a B734 but Boeing refused to release the plane due to lack of financing. Enquiries to MAS HQ drew a blank and we sat around helpless. Finally after some protracted haggling for 2 weeks, Boeing finally released the plane.

Back in KUL, I found out from a Bank Negara bigwig that MAS was almost done in by their own greedy directors and political patrons. It seemed that after the 1991 Gulf war, there was a severe downturn in the aviation industry and a lot of leasing companies like ILFC, GPA, etc gave up their options to purchase B734s.

Earlier in the late 1980's to cater for expansion, MAS commissioned a study by a consortium of banks to look into air travel expansion and development in the domestic and regional market from the year 1990 onwards for a period of 7 years. After some seemingly exhaustive studies, this consortium of banks stipulated a growth of about 10% a year for 5 years tapering off before 1996, hence they recommended a 50%-70% increase in the B734 fleet. MAS then had about 15 B734's and the consortium consented to financing further purchase of up to 12 more B734 aircraft. This exhaustive study was tabled to the MAS board for approval. The consortium never heard from MAS again, but MAS shortly announced purchase of over 40 more B734s!!! So where did MAS get the financing for such a humungous aircraft order?

The BN official related that when the aircraft purchase study was presented, the MAS directors immediately see $$$ in front of their greedy eyes. The st up their own aircraft leasing companies like Bunga Raya, bunga Cengkeh etc to be based in the Carirbean British and American Virgin Islands. These were $2 shell companies but got their financing from greedy US banks......SO THEY DID NOT NEED FINANCING FROM THE CONSORTIUM OF MALAYSIAN BANKS!!!

After the Gulf War in 1991 caused a downturn in the aviation sector, international aircraft leasing companies like ILFC and GPA quickly cut their losses and rejected their options for more B734 purchases. THE MAS DIRECTORS JUMPED AT THE CHANCE TO EXPEDITE THEIR PURCHASE BY TAKING OVER THOSE OPTIONS, hoping to make a killing with their shell companies. All was well and dandy for a few months until the US financers stop pumping money as they know that the end game was near...so the shell companies set up by the greedy MAS directors and their corrupt political patrons were starved of cash and they couldn't pay Boeing for the planes. Hence when we turned up in Seattle for aircraft acceptance and delivery, Boeing wanted nothing to do with us!

So the MAS MD went back to the Malaysian consortium of banks to help bail out the mess.....they told him to fly a kite! So he went begging around in the UK and US, and finally managed to get some financing at exorbitant rates.

I was sceptical of this revelation until I found evidence.....before financing was choked off from the shell companies in the British/American Virgin island; the B734s had proud Malaysian leasing companies like bunga cengkeh, bunga mawar on their owner's plaques in the cockpit. Aircraft that came after the financing debacle had MAS as the owner!!!

So MAS was a money buffet train ravished by our own $$$$ hungry demons. No hope lah; it is forever the same story till today.

[geo7E7]

What's this got to do with the topic guys???:hmm:

[ngapsayot]

Spinoffs lah, bongok!

[Paishinel]

Well the upside is that the spinoffs help keep this thread alive and interesting.

Just met a chap whose ex girlfriend's mother was killed in the MH 653 hijack in 1977. Because of the that, the girl vehemently opposed his decision to take up flying, ending their romance eventhough eventually they came back as good friends. The psychological trauma of losing a loved one in a plane tragedy really cause her to completely reject another loved one's passion for flying.

He's hoping that with the thread alive, some pertinent info will surface as word got around so that some non SEA forum guys will have a look and thereby jogging up some foggy recollection of the tragedy.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Babu Ganjoors, Family have moved on and done well for themselves. Daughter is a good friend of mine and now lives in NZ.

His wife shuttles between India and NZ!

Did not have an opportunity to meet or know Babu, but if his daughter is a reflection of him, then I am sure he was a good man.

[leftseatview]

Lembujaga i agree, what goes around comes around.
Eventually their deeds catch up with people like these.
Was in touch with Capt Ganjoors son a few years ago.....first thing when i catch up with him again, i will convey the warm sentiments that are still there for him all these many years later.
People skills(or CRM) are still an important part of the job requirement.
Indian Airlines had a long tradition of senior pilots agressively passing on their skills and expertize to the juniors(much hands on flying!)
Sadly right now,things are not to good with Indian(now Air India)too

[Old Parr]

lsview and Wannabe.........Thank you so much on the update on the Ganjoors! Surely glad they are doing well and I certainly wish them all the best in all their endeavours.

Babu wasn't just well ahead of his time CRM wise; I think lembujaga also meant that he was a perfect gentleman with manners and a demeanour that command respect ( despite the sireh chewing! ). Many of us were greatly pained by what the rascal alluded to in this thread did to his widow and family, and sincerely hoped that natural justice will prevail eventually. Cheers to all!

[Munajeeb]

Quote:
Alamak, Munajeeb and Benar..........you guys are really thick in the head. Why did you post about Tanjung Gemuk, Masjid PD and pariah encounter at Tullamarine? Now you have scared of sunny, rain and debby! They gonna get the polis dirosak to investigate your IP lah....messylah to give duit lasuah ala latuk!

Mat kilau and Old Parr........well, the pariah surrogates made threats and we need them to know that we have savvy webmasters too who can trace their postings! Also we have eyes and ears all about Tanahair who can sniff them out! On the flip side, we all miss the fun seeing the surrogates poking holes in their own yarn!

[ipohmali]

Heard from a kimchiland mat salleh in LHR that pariah bhai did get a reprieve from being dropped. Apparently his woeful grovelling and arselicking worked.......one reason he was sighted in MEL by someone in an earlier post was he went over there to plead with the EPA boss to intervene. This grovelling and arse licking of mat salleh was typical of him; heard that when he first failed his rte chk in KAL, he hisap zakar of a certain KAL mat salleh honcho named bill to intercede to be passed. Then the engine pod prang in NRT where again the begging and grovelling saved his skin....KAL must really like such shameless characters; maybe it makes them feel great to have a groveling bolehland latuk begging!


Well, just heard from someone nightstopping in the sandpit, the grovelling and arselicking didn't work...........the pariah latuk is put to pasture. Sorry for guys in AK and firefly, he gonna knock on your doors!

Coming back to Ganjoor's insurance payout.........I guess it was only the company PA that was honoured; the LOL did not kick in. Also, I guess the company PF was paid out. Not too sure if expats contributed to KWSP.

[Mat Sapu]

I think the expats do contribute to EPF. Once their work permit expires and they leave the country, they are entitled to withdraw their loot. Not like the lion city down south which hold onto the CPF until you're almost dead at 65!

[BSD]

Leftseatview and wannabeflyer,

Babu Ganjoor was one of the formative influences on my flying career. As a boarding school brat I got to know him as he lived near my folks in Malaysia.

He gave me great encouragement when I was applying to the airways training scheme (Hamble) and I recall long chats about life and culture in India.

After I'd finished school, and before I started my eventual flying course, I spent 6 weeks in India travelling by myself. The trip was only possible because Babu convinced my folks that I would be safe and could look after myself. His guidance was crucial to say the least!

I didn't know his family, but I 'm sure it will give them a great boost to know that people like me still cherish his memory.

BSD.

[Telur Belacan]

BSD, my johnny come lately friend.....it's still great to have someone come and stand up for Babu after 32 years! Wish it had been sooner after 178 posts on Pprune. I too wished I had discovered this stuff on PPrune earlier.

[tiggerhood]

Good on you. A little bit late but it still helps to contribute a lot to the memory of a good man.

[rajamuda]

............................................................ .................................

But I remember, and I also remember being sick to the stomach back then when that fellow did what he did but as you guys know he was powerful then and nobody would do anything!!!!!

But I remember Babu as a great Captain and certainly a gifted operator with CRM skills back then that surpass anybody in todays cockpits.

God bless you Babu and rest in peace, we know the real story and what was done to a desperate and broke wife with a young daughter to take care off.

Wooblah.


That, above, was a great tribute to Babu. Best wishes to his family.

[MMBenar]

Hi, did you lived in Section 6, Petaling Jaya in the vicinty of Petaling Gardens? Babu used to live there and I believe his family continued to be there for some time after the tragedy. BTW, you were indeed fortunate to be trained in Hamble.......nice!

[Mat Sapu]

Assalamualaikum raja, which thread in the PPrune archives did you get that tribute from Wooblah? Nicely done.

[rajamuda]

Go search for Jet Airways recruitment in Malaysia thread or this link :

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-281344.html

Enjoy the read.

[Kentot Gemuruh]

Rajamuda, many thks for the link...too bad the thread is closed. Should have seen it earlier, maybe we could have posted something there. Pretty revealing stuff there too. Found something about the karma and retribution thing on the thread :


MASsenger
5th July 2007, 14:28
Well you know what goes around comes around. While the Bhai ..............xxxxx, his own wife, a pretty lass from India, was being fulfilled by a consenting ram rod. Of course all hell broke loose when Bhai got wind of the whims & fancies of his own desperate housewife. Capt. Frekin Macho kicked up such a bloody fuss which actually backfired! Bahi got himself legally thrown out of his house, as the house was father-in-laws wedding gift. How`s that for `Karma’. Woww, don`t fool around with this karma,hama,hama, stuff man!


Gee, there really is something to this karma thingy, yikes!

[gerago]

Nice link..........heard this over at Visitors when nightstopping DXB. Someone just looked at the link and saw this: WiraMelayu[/U]
8th July 2007, 09:42
Hi all, this sikh prick is a survivor like a hyaena. He bullies the juniors or anyone he perceives as weak/unsupported but grovels at the feet of those he perceives as superior.
I flew a few times with him as his F/O and came close to blows during night stops. As a consequence he got his arse licking buddies to give me hard times during flights with them. So you can see why guys are reluctant to take on him. When talking to fellow F/Os we realised that he was alway running down the Malays in front of the non Bumis and lambasting the Chinamen to the Bumis.
He had been trying to recruit for Jet since early last year; the " Indian " apology must have worked wonders that naresh goyal see it fit to reassociate with him.
]

Apparently that F/O heard a nice story about why the pariah bai had bad and evil thoughts about chinamen..........

One day the bai went to see a shrink in KL complaining about his wife's obsession about the cleanliness and security of her expensive punjabi suits. It seems that her family was very rich in India and she was given gold thread laden Punjabi suits and very expensive shalwar kameezes as her bridal wardrobe. Also, the expensive big house as a dowry.....hence she had this hangup about her suits and house being robbed. The shrink told the wannabe latuk bai that it was not that abnormal to have such a fear but the bai said his wifey carried the fear too far.........

Doc : How badly did she fear losing her stuff?

latuk bai : Very bad.....my flight was cancelled, so I came home and found a chinaman in my closet. My wife was so afraid that her suits will be soiled or stolen that she hired the chinese laundry man to guard and preen her suits whenever I am away on night on flights, She needed a man for such things you know!

Doc : Aha...........OK, I know some traditional brew to cure her obsession; get her to take bakkut teh!

[Wannabe Flyer]

In respect for his wife and daughter who might read this someday, please do not reprint material about the exploits of the so called pariahs with the family. It is like sprinkling salt on an open wound, and would appreciate it if such comments were deleted. All know what happened lets not spread it about now.

[ganga747]

It is unlikely that she will ever read this thread....so dont worry
But it must be highlighted what the LATUK GULU did on a pretex and boasted about it. Let his peer judge him now and I see more pilots in MAS hate him than like him. That says enough of his character.

[Wannabe Flyer]

World is too small ganga. I know the daughter regularly trolls sites, who knows what google will throw up. It is only respect due which should be given.

Just my opinion

[rajamuda]

Wanna...................pt taken, post amended with parts remaining as tribute to Babu.

[Teg Bahadur]

Ha ha ha, LOL.........great story, ah you boys on the scarebus in DXB's Visitors! How I miss the puris, masala thosai, chicken 69? Great place to hear juicy stories!

[leftseatview]

I think we are talking about 2 different "Families" here.(hope i am wrong)
My contact was with the Original family in India.....who to the best of my knowledge were untouched by the unscrupolous goings on for the compensation.
For the sake of rest to his soul(and ours)i hope his family in Malayasia (if they actually existed)too found their way in the world....even after coming across some(or only one)unethical character.

[Sireh]

I agree with wannabe's view; I suggest Kentot amend or delete his post. Thks

[lembujaga]

Well, just heard from someone nightstopping in the sandpit, the grovelling and arselicking didn't work...........the pariah latuk is put to pasture. Sorry for guys in AK and firefly, he gonna knock on your doors

Well, story on the grapevine is that the pariah lato' is now spewing venom about what a ****ty joint Korean Air is. Years ago he was waxing lyrical about the great money and travelling privileges in KAL. He even complained that while they terminated his service, an Indon chap who hit a truck at JFK was cleared back on line to fly.................what injustice the pundeh lato' cried!

[Sireh]

rajamuda and Kentot........thks for amending your posts.