B737 Captain upgrades???

[wessie]

I've heard that Nationwide is upgrading FO's with only 3000 hours total time. This seems very low - is it true?

[Intheslot]

I believe that the rumours are true. I 'spose that as opposed to the other airlines in S.A. the 3000hrs issue may be a little light. I know that by European or American standards this is not the case. The other end of the spectrum would be SAA where a co-pilot tour of 15 years is not uncommon. I expect that a full evaluation and assessment was done on each candidate and they were then recommended by the pilot management at N/Wide.

[The Ant]

I guess these upgrades are BAC 1-11 commands, not B737?

[FuelFlow]

The Ant

Why would you think that these upgrades would only be on the BAC1-11???

Is it not possible for a 3000 Hr pilot to be in command of a 737. Both are medium jets, I can't see the problem.

I do think that the TT might be on the low side, but depending on how those 3000Hrs were attained, could make all the difference.

[Yossarian]

As FuelFlow says, it would certainly count how you came by those 3000 hours. By worldwide standards this is not too few at all. Lets put it in perspective. I have a friend who at 28 and with not too many more hours than that was captain of a 767 trans-Atlantic.

[Banoi]

I'm also battling to see why these upgrades could only have been on the BAC 1-11. What is the huge difference between these two medium, twin-jet, commercial, passenger carrying aircraft that would make the Fluf beyond the capabilities of a young captain?

[skyvan]

I think the probable reason for the BAC1-11 is that it is the 'junior' fleet at Nationwide, so therefore, an in-company new command is likely to be on that fleet. Having said that, I do know that they were giving right-to-left conversions on the B727 last year.
Most of the low-time new hires at Nationwide were starting on the BAC, but as that now seems to be a dying fleet, anything is possible.
As for 3000hrs being lowtime for a B737 command, this was relatively common in Europe a couple of years ago. However, the way the South African flying community operates, that is quite unlikely, purely due to the fact that airlines normally don't employ 200hr CPLs into the RHSeat. I do know of a 4500hrs pilot getting command on the B727 at Interair, but he was the Operations Manager!

[Banoi]

I was under the impression that due to the rapid expansion of Nationwide, most of the new hires were going onto the 737; both left and right seat.

Their rapid expansion was in no small part due to the untimely demise of Sun Air, which also supplied a fair number of crews to Nationwide. Some of these direct entry captains brought with them several thousand hours of experience they had gained at Sun Air, having received command on a DC9/MD82 with 3500 hours total time.

Before Comair, and soon after, Sun Air began operating jets it was certainly the norm in South African aviation circles for a captain to have waited 15 years and 10 000 hours for his left seat. It was the "accepted" norm. Thank God some other airlines proved that this was not neccesarily required. It has opened many doors and opportunities for South African pilots.

[The Actuator]

So what if the upgrades only have 3000 hrs. This is not the space shuttle here guys. We are talking about guys who are totally familiar with the aeroplane and are flying to the same destinations week in and week out. Just because some airlines expect you to sit for years and years and watch the same kak day in and day out don't think that that is the correct way to do things. A little open mindedness in the South African context would go a long way to sorting a lot of things out.

[Goldfish Jack]

Het Banoi

Fully agree with you. Can you imagine waiting for up to 18 years (yes its true) for a left seat conversion.

These newer captains have brought a bought of fresh air into the system. They are keen and willing and have certainly proved that you do not need 10000hours for a left seat. It certainly provides motivation for the youngsters, knowing they can get there before they reach 50 and do not have to sit around for ages going crazy. Was this maybe another reason why everyone wanted to up and go overseas - waiting for ever for a command.

I have even heard that Namib Airlines has some 747-400 captains under the age of 40 and doing a great job.

As long as the person has the required hours and meets the legislated requirements and passes his test, why can they not do it? If you can fly a Citation/Lear from the left seat, what is the difference from a B737?? Apart from about 100 people and a few extra cabin attendants? Same airspace / airports / ILs, etc.

Keep going Nationwide and well done.

[The Ant]

It's all about dead men's shoes these days! Because the industry is so saturated with very little growth, one has to wait for retirements before moving up the food chain. 3000 hours is plenty to have a command. There was a time (many years ago!!!) that SAA captains got their commands at 25 and were jumbo captains before they were 30! These are the same guys still sitting there. They are all finally reaching retirement age and will be moving on over the next three to five years, this should unblock the system through the country and hopefully every body will move once again.