Job situation

[Tor]

Does anyone know of companies hirering lowtime pilots?

EU citizen, national CPL, frozen ATPL, ME, IR and JAA-MCC. Have some 250 hrs.

Thanks

Tor

[skyvan]

Tor,
you might try a search in this forum, but, in a nutshell, there are plenty of pilots in Africa, with local licences, and local experience. The chances of a company taking on a low-time foreign pilot, who will have to fly on a validation (max period 1year), are not very good.
Having said that, SAA will be interviewing all 600 applicants from the last advertisement, and, if the plans for employment equity come off, should employ up to 120 pilots in the next 3 years, leaving a series of gaps in the industry.
Your biggest problem is the same as you have in Europe. Your experience level is low, and the local companies are more likely to hire local pilots, if they are in a corner, and have to take a low time pilot.
You may have better luck if you happen to have a personal contact in a company.
Sorry if it sounds all negative, but there are a lot of pilots here who are out of work (one of the few areas in the world, as well as Aussie, with a pilot surplus).
Good luck.

[Rafiki]

Tor - have you got any money - do you fancy the trip of a lifetime? Well it's most probably the only way you're going to find something in Africa with 250 hours, in my opinion of course! - by going and knocking on doors. Could be in the Democratic Republic of Congo or Mozambique or who knows. If you have some ooomph, can put up with the chance of malaria, getting shot at etc you may just get lucky. In the more civilized parts you'll struggle I think. Bit of a gamble really, but you just never know - till you go! Are you bi-lingual - that could come in handy. French would be a big plus out west for example.
Cheers
Rafiki

[Tor]

Thanks for all the advice

Yes I would be willing to work in less civilized parts of Africa (for a periode).

I do speak some French but it would need some brushing up.

Tor

[joblessflyer]

Tor,
i've read your job enquiries at almost every forum.Are you out of your mind!i've close to 3000hrs inclus jets and t/boprops time and i am still jobless,u with 200+hrs looking....? Do us good deed pls,this is not a job board.
u might want to try instructing first.

[Cardinal Puff]

jobless flyer

If you don't put bait in the water you're not going to get any bites. Give it a try, it might help you.

Tor:

Keep trying. we all have to start somewhere and the bottom rung is as good a place as any. We're both in the same boat but at least we try which is as much as we can do right now, I guess. jobless flyer has a point though. maybe instructing is the way to go.

[Sir Cumference]

In terms of jobs in Africa, they are available and they are available to guys with low time. These jobs all depend on how much movement there is in the airline industry. Obviously the guys move on. In Africa there are organizations providing contract flying for various UN agencies as well as fast freight deliveries. This flying is fairly demanding but is good concerntrated exerience. Generally the guys who are hiring will take less experienced pilots as co-pilots and obiously through the experience they gain, make them fairly desireable as Captains as they work their way up the ladder. Unless a Captain slot opens and their is no-one senior in the co-pilot pool to take the place, it is unlikely that a Captain with no contract experience will be hired. Further the licence issue is that these guys are more likely to hire pilots with the correct licences and not validations

Sorry about the waffle, but that is a brief sumation of the situation as I see it.

[Tor]

Thanks

I know of one UN contractor who are taking in lowtimers to fly BE200/1900 i Africa. I have applied there but they are not hireing for the moment.

In my initial post, the kind of info I was looking for was if there where any smaller local companies that where hireing for the moment (e.g. BE200/1900 sieze). That would accept a validation and a contact of e.g. 1/2-1 year. I would be willing to work in less civilized regions and I'm willing to duck if fired upon.

Btw I have the technical education on BE200.

Flying as an instructor obviously didn't help Joblessflyer http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif - Anyway Joblessflyer in the part of the world where I live (EU), If you got 8-1000TT and 200Twin you can get a job with a major airline. I don't think it's for you to judge my rights to enquire whats the situation is like in other parts of the world :)

Tor

[This message has been edited by Tor (edited 18 July 2000).]

[Rafiki]

Jobless flyer - how come? 3000TT jets and turboprops? You're obviously pretty hung-up about it. I wish you all the luck in your quest for employment, which shouldn't take long particularly if you're prepared to move like our mate Tor. (Don't let us down now Tor - you can write to as many companies in Africa as you like, but you won't get a look in until you're there ... at least in my experience) True PPRUNEs not a job mart but with that flight time - bugger it, I'd be pursueing every avenue known to man. JF - how about a new positive handle - 'Gonna get hired' would be a good one. Tor, if English is not your language, I offer the polite suggestion that you buy a dictionary and add more credibilty to your case by spelling correctly! Not the be all and end all, but things like that help.
Yours
Rafiki

[Tor]

Actually English is not my native language Rafiki, however I do consider myself as being fluent in the spoken english. You can bet when I write a job application I do check my spelling however I reply to many posts in this and other forums and don't have the time to check.

Thanks

Tor

[mutt]

Not exactly Africa, but.....

TROPIC AIR (Pilots)
P.O. Box 20, San Pedro Town A.C., Belize, Central America
Tel: no calls
Fax: none
Email: [email protected]
Web Site: none
Tripic Air - with a fleet of Cessna (6) 208s plus Cessna 206, 207, 180, and 172s, anticipates hiring ICAO licensed pilots in September 2000 for their Caribbean operation. Requires: 750 hours TT for recips. 2000 hours TT, 100 hours turbine experience plus FlightSafety training for C-208 Caravans. Bases: (SPR) and (PGA). Resumés Attn: Mike Kuhn, Chief Pilot.

[alatus]

I know this isn't following the thread, but maybe its close enough. Does anyone have any information about TransAfrik. Contact? working conditions? Etc.?

Thanks

[Bush Cat]

TROPIC AIR
Now there is a good call. Although their safety brief is a little laid back, it's a great place. Belize that is.

When were you there?
25 Flt? Or just visiting?
Regards
BC

[joblessflyer]

A domestic airline in Myanmar is looking for F/O don't mind low hours(2-300hrs)but willing to pay own type rating(ATR-72)

[TwinBoris]

Hi all,
it seems very interesting.
Im a french citizen with a canadian pp-multi-ifr.
Witch compagny is it?(A-M or Y-A)
The ATR are under french registration?
Is it possible to work for them with canadian licences?
Thanks for your reply.
:)

[Tor]

>>>A domestic airline in Myanmar is looking for F/O don't mind low hours(2-300hrs)but willing to pay own type rating(ATR-72)
<<<

What company might that be?

[Skaz]

Joblessflyer: chill out,bru...dont slag off other people wo are trying to get work, its hard enough as it is.

Tor: catch a wake up,china...you wanna start a career with 250 hours, you start like everyone else, from the bottom up, flying single piston a/c & earning your priviledges.

And there are jobs in Africa, flying singles in the bush, you can rack up 1500 hours or more in two years time, depending where you go. Just dont even waste your time in South Africa, there's no jobs there.

[Tor]

Skaz - thanks for the advice. Just wanted to know what the situation is like i Africa.

I guess the world is changing. In my part of the world (Scandinavian) it is not unusual to begin an airline career with 250 hrs. SAS which is a major carrier (flying DC-9, MD-80, B767, B737) has taken in 60 lowtimers this year alone. The only catch is they are only taking them from certain schools at this time. If you want to apply and are not from one of those schools they require 700TT/200ME.

Other companies take in pilots with below 500 hrs to fly King Air, F50 etc.

If you had the time that Joblessflyer has you would have to be a criminal - not to get hired somewhere.

Tor

[Big jugs]

The reality of the matter is in some parts of the world the demand is strong for pilots or no real small general aviation industry and you can get away with low time.

South Africa, Australia, Canada, New Zealand all have an oversupply of pilots and you may need 2000 hours, 500 multi, 100 actual instrument just to land a job flying a PA-31 or C208.

To be in command of a metro (6.8 t) or B1900 (7.5 t) you would need an ATPL, 500 multi command, 500 turbine etc. This is the same sought of requirements for a King Air but 3-4000 hours total, they also would want 5 instrument rating renewals, they are a single pilot aircraft.

I saw an advertisement recently where EMB-120 co-pilots needed 3000 hours total with a 3 year $30,000 bond. In Europe you could get a A320 command with that.

The only way to land a turbine job in these parts with your hours is to do the interview on your back and look at the ceiling while the chief pilot asks you questions, or just move in with him.

[Skaz]

That sounds about right. I know a few guys that flew here in darkest africa, now sitting around in RSA with 3000TT, +500ME, maybe 100 or so IF time, most of the above as PIC and they cant find jobs. If they do get, its flying clapped out a/c with avionics that are suspect at best and end up in the soup with the authorities.Either that or go work for I&J packing fish (all true life dramas)
Naturally depending on your skin colouration, you may end up with a right seat at our beloved national carrier (if you have a few grand to fork out under the table on your ATP!)
Getting on with any big companies is also such a mission as they want you fully qualified with hundreds of jet time and IF etc etc, never mind the fact you need the job to get the above first. That or you pay plenty buckaroos to get at least a rating on a big iron machine, catch 22, still no TOT.

Rumour: Airlines in the States will be able to, from the end of this year, to issue Green Cards themselves for prospective employees ie PILOTS !! (info from someone connected- arent they all...)

[Tor]

Skaz - I see. If you fly in the northern climates and has 3000TT, the 2000 of them would be IFR. With my 250hrs apprx. 100 are IFR alone.

Where I live the companies are focusing more and more on how many hours are IFR (which makes sense in my oppinion). So as far as instructing goes it's not that great (VFR and S/E). Anyway it's also expensive to become an instructor.

What kind of flying is it "in darkest africa"?

Tor

[Agaricus bisporus]

Tor, are you interested in Africa cos thats where you wanna work, or that you think its easier for a 250hr man to get a job there? In my experience its often easier to get a job in Europe

Let me tell you there are plenty of chances here in Yurrup-based companies for low hours starters, and its getting better as the shortage of experience bites - and it will get better for you guys for a few years to come I think.

Seriously, there are jet jobs being given to 250 hrs folk if they are lucky with their contacts, but youve got to look at what we sometimes call the third world operators. They exist here too, believe me.

[This message has been edited by Agaricus bisporus (edited 29 July 2000).]

[big buddah]

Tor,

The only way to get a job in africa is buy a one way ticket there!!

The truth is for a foriegner ie a european to get a job in Africa it is bloody hard.

the only way is if you already have really close friends that are flying somewhere you can shack for awhile and fly with it's a completely different world for you guys and to be honest you probably might not like Africa.

If you are really keen try the operators in Bot's they hire low time pilots but you have to be there to get the jobs and prove you're not going to ding there aeroplanes.You'll start on C206's so get extremely current and really learn how to throw them around.

If you really want airline work stay where you are and suck the sav!

But rememerber with 250hrs your dirt so just shut your mouth listen and learn or you'll get sucked in and spat so quickly you won't know what happen to your **** !

Been there done that!

I agree hours mean nothing there's lots of 3000 houred pilots looking for work you just have to prove you're better than them!!!!

[Skaz]

hey big budda dude, when were you here in Bottyland??
Nope, it is pretty easy (all relatively speaking of course) to get a job here in Bots, but yes, you have to be here at the right time and show commitment by sticking aroung for as long as it takes to land said job. Some guys hang around for 3 months or longer, eventually they get hired. Depends on the season and idiots like robert mugabe who f&($# up the tourist industry all over southern africa. This year quieter than last because of him.
Being current on a C206 would help, as well as C210 & BN2A , if you are not, the company might not hire you if some other bloke rocks up with those ratings. If you do get hired, the company will train you up on a/c & flying in the bush. and yeah boy, you do learn to put a 206 through its paces and then some, on hot days with 5 pax , 3hours fuel outta some of these bush strips, youre balancing on the razor's edge....some get cut.
most guys here are either from SA or kiwi, one or two from oz & canada, no yanks, not yet anyway.

[Tor]

Posted by: Joblessflyer
And Tor,you are too naive to think that with my flight hours I would certainly get a job if I apply.Like you said:"In my part of the world,I would fly for airlines if I have 1000hrs or so........." That is in your part of your world,you IDIOT!

Dear Sir

You're out of line here. If I may qoute myself:

>>>Anyway Joblessflyer in the part of the world where I live (EU), If you got 8-1000TT and 200Twin you can get a job with a major airline.<<<

I havn't said anything about you applying anywhere. And I havn't said anything about you "would certainly get a job". Check the thread for yourself.


Don't forget you are still a 250hrs pilot,what makes you think that you are in the position to criticize,IDIOT?


Actually I havn't criticized ANYONE on the contrary I made a polite request for information - after which you flamed me by saying I was "out of my mind". Anyway I can't see what anything has to do with my flying time.

My friendly advice to you:

Maybe you should stop considering yourself better than all others and then maybe even you would land a job (which I understand from the gents who are posting is not impossible).

Skaz, big buddah, Agaricus bisporus - Thanks for the info.

Krgds

Tor

[This message has been edited by Tor (edited 02 August 2000).]

[Skaz]

Hey Joblessflyer,
why you giving me flak? I did not say anything about you "broadcasting" or anything...so where does this about Air Mandalay come from??? Thanks for the info though.
Another thing why you going off at Tor for? Yes, hes new to the industry and asks the same kind of dumb-ass questions any FNG does firsttime out there, sure we all did somehow, sometime...give the guy a break, it is all relative,what you know/ what you think you know/ what there is to know about our industry...who pissed on your battery, chill out, were all friends, were all brothers, oki? In the end we are all trying to get to that dream job and the good life, never mind what part fo the world we come from.
Tor: no problem for the info, if we dont help ourselves the f$%)&^@# beancounters are gonna shaft all of us in the end ('scuse the pun)

[Tor]

Skaz

Appreciate you're sticking up for me. But I really can't see what dumb-ass questions you think I have asked. I had no idea about the present situation in Africa - but now I do thanks to the info I was given by amougst others you - thanks.

If you don't ask you won't get an answer.

Btw - what's a FNG?

Tor :)

[DeltaTango]

hey jobless a.k.a "etiqueless"...whats your problem man?
don't like the thread ? plenty of other places to go!
Or maybe all us "wannabees" should wait till you get a job before we can try?
Anyway, as for the rest of you: great info!
I myself would love to fly in Afrika and have been looking for ways to get there for about a year now, so your help is greatly appreciated, thanx!

[Waloo]

Tor,

speaking about the French part of Africa, if you don't go here pointing your nose, you will get nothing.
And the best way to find a job in those places for a low timer is still "contacts".

Remember, almost each country has his bunch of local low timer willing to fly.

If you're not afraid, start by places where nobody want to go.
;) former Zaire for example ;)

Wich you best luck.

[Colonel Sanders]

I really thought PPRuNe was meant to be a place where pilots and people could come together and network, share info and experiences and maybe help each other out. Instead I'm seeing far more people making smart ar se comments, being derogatory or generally being a tosser when someone asks a simple question.

It would be simpler to move on to the next thread, rather than post a useless inflammatory opinion that serves no purppose other than to berate.

I don't want to start pointing fingers at anyone on this thread. I just think this kind of attitude should stop. We all need think about what we're going to post first.

Thanks
The Colonel
No appologies for ranting!

[big buddah]

Skaz,

No you won't no me, Then again you might I went thru a few years ago didn't get work stayed the 3 mnths and got told to leave.

Doing alright now though!! Finally.

Just tell Matt Pomeroy he's a fat useless prick and ask him how's his kids are!

Who are you working for?

I agree you just have to hang in there!

Good Luck

[putco]

Tor - e-mail me. I have lived and worked in thirty-three disgusting African countries and hopefully I can help you out a little. Done my dues there and gained some of the best experience you'll get. Waiting..

[Waloo]

I agree with you Colonel and I would like to apologize if my initial post sound a bit "smart". http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Tor,

I keep in touch whenever I can, with some friends who are flying in West Africa. I remember them talking about Wannabe's making the round trip to find jobs in Africa.

Believe it or not, sometime, some crews are giving free jumpseat ride to the next country. Not to clear them, but to help them.

In the mid 90 (sorry, a bit out of date but probably nice to hear) a guy got a free ride like these in Kinshasa. He had only 250/300hrs and found himself the next week on the RHS of a 707...Don't know the end of this story except that he built 500hrs of jet time before returning in EU.

From my friends point of view, in those countries, you better found a job as an F/O. Flying alone single engine or small piston twin can be very tricky.

From my personal point of view, take whatever you found you will built an incredible personnal & aeronautical experience in the "dark continent"....(And after all you will enjoy the way your own country is running ;) )

I'm sure some PPruner's "have been there, done that".

[Skaz]

Tor - dont take things too seriously, read "dumbass questions" (referring to the B1900 rhs you want with 250TT ) :) , with tongue in cheek.
DT, um...its etiquetless :) youre right though.
Waloo...hey man, why you thing nobody wants to go there? 'cause nobody they want a Stinger SAM up the zumpap !!
for the Colonel, yes Sir, agree with you totally. This forum is for the benefit of all pilots who posts on it, lets keep it friendly.
Big Buddah...lmao, hehehe, sniff...tears rolling down me cheeks..thats funny !haha...phew, gotta catch my breath now...
....the big ole Delta Scare !
Waloo ... dont we all wish that could be us?
putco...man, where you get this name from, a bus ;) ... not close to 33, but been around, nobody said africa was gonna be easy, hey !?

[putco]

Skaz - Africa is a ballache and l believe l qualify to say that now. But for laughs you should come and try Afghanistan! Enjoy the swamps Pal, did a couple to James camp and Impalila some time back - cool spot!

[Tor]

Tor - dont take things too seriously, read "dumbass questions" (referring to the B1900 rhs you want with 250TT ) , with tongue in cheek.

Don't worry - I won't.

Anyway there is a shortage of pilots in the Europe and the fact is that you CAN get a job as a FO in a B1900 (or a F50 etc.) with 250TT. Unfortunatly those companies (I know of) are not hiring for the moment.

Thats why I asked in the first place because I wanted to know if the situation was similar in Africa. Although I don't see this as even a " "dumbass question" " I apologize from the buttom of my heart for asking it, if I offended anyone by doing so http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
(This wasn't meant for you Skaz.)


putco - thanks I certainly will.

Tor

[This message has been edited by Tor (edited 03 August 2000).]

[Sleepless_Knight]

What Joblees Flyer has very ably demonstrated here is precisely why he is jobless! You need more than just hours pal!
Membership of the human race is also required.

[Speedjeans]

Well guys I'm trooping down to Tanzania in 3 weeks and going to convert my licence and try and find a job and if it does not work out then so be it, I'll just say I had a good holiday and come home. so if anyone wants to hook up down there for a beer then drop me a line.
Cheers
SJ's

------------------
Catch you on the flip side!

[Skybiter]

Good luck SJ. Drop in at the East African Aero Club at Wilson Airport in Nairobbery some time to see if there's anything happening down there. Usually some good leads to be had in the bar. Trackmark also an option if you can get a Kenyan validation and a residence and work permit.

[Captain Ed]

According to this article in a very authoritaive magazine, there will be very few left in Southern Africa to buy tickets, in the near future. http://www.scientificamerican.com/2000/0500issue/0500ezzel.html

[The Guvnor]

... and say hi to Heather Stewart from me if you see her! You might also like to try Airkenya - but I think they're after more experienced people. Their Chief Pilot is a nice chap by the name of Dino.

------------------
:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Airspeed]

What equipment does Airkenya operate?

[Kiwi Flyer]

Big Buddah, or is that hoody!
You still flying my old plane?
Send us an email.

[Skaz]

kiwi flyer, no email, how bout some bibs or diapers :)
big budda guy lounging in the poppy fields :0

[Skybiter]

Airspeed

Air Kenya operate Twotter, Shed, F27, DHC7 and they also own Regional Air which operates 737-300. Give it a try. You won't catch fish without putting bait in the water.....

[Goldwing2000]

Tor, good on yer mate. If you don't ask the questions you won't get the answer! As for Joblessflyer well,it ain't too difficult to see why he's out of a job. It's his bloody attitude. What's wrong with getting a good job with 250hrs, I say good bloody luck if you can manage it, a bit like winning the lottery. There's no hard and fast rules where you've got to start at the bottom and are only able to fly jets after 20 trillions hours under your belt. Anyways, Tor don't give up and I'm sure your persistence will pay off like so many people before you. Oh! don't forget keep smiling. :) :)

------------------
Just because we don't get any complaints doesn't mean our parachutes are perfect!

[Waloo]

Give Joblessflyer a break, and take a look here:
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum34/HTML/000152.html

See what he posted on july 31.

Doesn't give him the right of a bad attitude with everybody but I understand why is so upset....

[big buddah]

Good to see all the bots boys are well!!

Kiwi flyer check your e-mail

What's this rumour about poppy fields it's amazing how rumours travel around the world, ran into someone at the pub and asked the same question.

Was never there, never saw a thing and never did nothing.

Kiwi flyer rumours/stories travel far how's that broken hand, love to hear the full story.

Tor back to the topic remember it's not your hrs that get you the jobs it's your mates and your attitude it's easy to get hrs in a log book but harder to change a bad attitude!!!!!A good attitude goes alot further when looking for work than hours.

Kiwi flyer has got lots of hours but people are still trying to change his attitude and appearence.Skaz I don't know about just yet but if he's flying in bots and shagging kiwi flyer up the **** then his attitude must have got him somewhere yet to find any dirt but it will come.

I recommend Bot's if your keen alot easier to get work permits and the rest of the who har.But stay out of the poppy fields rumours travel far!!!!!!!!!!

[Kabullet]

Tor,
I'm not sure if this is what you are after but....
Rossair, south africa have started operating in Europe with b1900's. it may not be a job in Africa but as far as i know. It is 2 months on 1 off. with a EU licence you may have a shot, even with low time. Take a shot and good luck. Dont listen to ol'jobless, low time is better than no time. we all started with 250 hours.. go get em!

[Rafiki]

Good luck to SpeedJeans. Drop in on Coastal in Dar and try Zanair on Zanzibar too (Carl Salisbury is the boss).
----
Rafiki

[Tambo]

Hey guys, as I recall we all started with low hours, at least I did, and like many of you I did my time in Africa.

Tor, all I can say is the best of luck. No matter what people tell you, aviation is one of those areas,that if you dont know people its very hard to get anywhere fast. Therefore that means that you will have to work hard to find a job.
There are still jobs in Africa, even for the low time pilot. Although a great deal more nationals are getting jobs, which is a good thing! (most of the time!!!!)

Good luck and do what you have to do!!!

[This message has been edited by Tambo (edited 09 August 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tambo (edited 09 August 2000).]

[planecrazi]

Tor, there is nothing wrong with coming onto this site and showing that you have this ability, try Rossair in SA at 27-11-7013500 and I hope that you succeed.